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[SUGGESTION] Make 2H Items count as 2 peices

Draconerus
Draconerus
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Please make 2H Items count as 2 pieces. This would allow players such as myself who play a healer to also use a monster set or open up other set combinations for players.
Draconerus
Argonian - Templar Healer
Da Funk - Officer
  • lappas
    lappas
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    No.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Draconerus wrote: »
    Please make 2H Items count as 2 pieces. This would allow players such as myself who play a healer to also use a monster set or open up other set combinations for players.

    Actually letting everyone have the same 5-5-2 config doesn't lead to more combinations being used, but to fewer.

    The journey to more diversity does not begin by asking the GPS to "find more sameness."
    (I think this quote was from Buddha - but could be wrong.

    Of course if you wear 2 monsters pieces 3 rings+belt of one set, other 4 body pieces of another set and have one 2h weapon of each set, you can have a 5-5-2 going on if you choose the sets wisely. Clever alchemist is a good one.


    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    @lappas Why no specifically?

    @STEVIL There is no way to do a 5/5/2 without using a duel wield or shield/sword combo. Hence this is why I am asking for the option for 2h weapons to count as a 2 slots as well.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Draconerus wrote: »
    @lappas Why no specifically?

    @STEVIL There is no way to do a 5/5/2 without using a duel wield or shield/sword combo. Hence this is why I am asking for the option for 2h weapons to count as a 2 slots as well.

    sigh...

    one example of many...
    body
    two piece monster
    4 pc clever alchemist
    1 pc viper or any drop set

    jewels
    3 pc viper or any drop set

    weapons
    attack bar - greatsword of viper
    buff/util/other bar - greatsword of clever alche

    When on attack bar have 2pc monster, 5 pc viper and 4pc alche ready.

    When on back/buff bar - have 2 p monster, 4 p viper and 5pc clever

    Being a "clever" sort, when your potions come up, you swap to buff bar (as part of your sequence) and do buffs and drink potion which uses the clever 5pc.

    Swap back to main bar - and have fun... viper at 5pc, monsters at 2pc all 4pc of clever doing their thing and the 5pc bonus from clever still running for 15s.

    The key to this and quite a few other builds is - that clever 5pc bonus only comes up for trigger every 45s or so and runs on its own even when you swap bars for a good time (15s) which means you are getting the full benefit of it even using a 2h build.

    During that 45s of time between potioins that sets 5pc bonus is either running or useless regardless of which bar you are on so you are getting all the bonuses of the 5-5-2 sets PLUS the 2H weapon skill line.

    Have cake, eat it.

    This means 2H/bow/staff users should be looking at different set choices than DW if they want to optimize the "both 5pc bonuses going at once" thing.

    this is "basic set choice 101" or maybe "201"... once you graduate into maelstrom or master weapon sets ("301?") - it become irrelevant.

    having 2h weapons count set counts the same in spite of the obvious reasons not to and edges cooked into their make-up would just kick that whole "This means 2H/bow/staff users should be looking at different set choices than DW" toi the curb in the interest of more sameness.

    I say again...

    The journey to more diversity does not begin by asking the GPS to "find more sameness."
    (I think now this quote was from Lincoln or Twain - but could be wrong.)

    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • iseko
    iseko
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    Pretty much what has been said allready. Its impossible to have 2 5 piece sets active at all times when having two 2H weapons. But you can alternate between which 5th piece is active... 5th piece with cooldowns are good to have on your backbar (i.e. lich, clever alchemist, warlock,...) Dont know much about stamina builds but it's good for restro/destro magicka builds.

    Edit: assuming you also want 2 piece monster.
    Edited by iseko on January 30, 2017 4:24PM
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
    lolo_01b16_ESO
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    Draconerus wrote: »
    Please make 2H Items count as 2 pieces. This would allow players such as myself who play a healer to also use a monster set or open up other set combinations for players.
    There are multiple of those setups for healers. My standart setup for healing trials is:
    5 spc on body, 5 aether (jewelery+1 body+lightning staff), 1 kena, 1 master restro
    You could also swap the master restro for a spc restro and wear 2 pieces of a monster set.

    Twilight remedy is another set a healer could use on his backbar only. (In that case, just put your orbs on your backbar and stay there for a few secs untill people used the synergies)

    If you want to heal in pvp, transmutation is also a great set for your backbar.
  • SmalltalkJava
    SmalltalkJava
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    Draconerus wrote: »
    Please make 2H Items count as 2 pieces. This would allow players such as myself who play a healer to also use a monster set or open up other set combinations for players.

    I think this would be great. It would allow more 5 and 5 set bonuses to come into play.
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    Draconerus wrote: »
    Please make 2H Items count as 2 pieces. This would allow players such as myself who play a healer to also use a monster set or open up other set combinations for players.
    There are multiple of those setups for healers. My standart setup for healing trials is:
    5 spc on body, 5 aether (jewelery+1 body+lightning staff), 1 kena, 1 master restro
    You could also swap the master restro for a spc restro and wear 2 pieces of a monster set.

    Twilight remedy is another set a healer could use on his backbar only. (In that case, just put your orbs on your backbar and stay there for a few secs untill people used the synergies)

    If you want to heal in pvp, transmutation is also a great set for your backbar.

    Yes, I get that, but what I am suggesting would allow us to use more than 1 Kena or another monster set WHILE using 5 SPC and 5 Worm for example.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    Funny how the players saying "no" are saying so because they feel that would limit set choice? I mean i don't get that but whatever. These are the same players that day DW is the DPS weapon, and the other two are backup weapons. In PvP two handed is king...yeah, but I'll say that if a stamina toon had DW/ sword and shield, that DW build would still absolutely wreck face, not requiring two handed or bow.

    The point of allowing two set pieces for ALL two handed weapons is to balance certain weapons for PVE damage, that way my Dual bow build can actually work in PvE and PvP, and not be required to have another weapon on my backbar.

    It would also somewhat fix the oh so very frustrating and common MAGICK templar build. Being forced to run DW and sweeps for the best build for them. It would be nice for ranged magplar destroy staff user to get a bit of a buff.
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    It would only open up new possibilities and help balance the metas in my opinion.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Baconlad wrote: »
    Funny how the players saying "no" are saying so because they feel that would limit set choice? I mean i don't get that but whatever. These are the same players that day DW is the DPS weapon, and the other two are backup weapons. In PvP two handed is king...yeah, but I'll say that if a stamina toon had DW/ sword and shield, that DW build would still absolutely wreck face, not requiring two handed or bow.

    The point of allowing two set pieces for ALL two handed weapons is to balance certain weapons for PVE damage, that way my Dual bow build can actually work in PvE and PvP, and not be required to have another weapon on my backbar.

    It would also somewhat fix the oh so very frustrating and common MAGICK templar build. Being forced to run DW and sweeps for the best build for them. It would be nice for ranged magplar destroy staff user to get a bit of a buff.

    First bold - oh gods please will the DW is dps king threads get together with the 2h is pvp king threads and then join the stamina is dead in pve because stamina is top dog threads and then go out for dinner and a movie and a threesome after while "bows suck" threads watch from the closet?!?!?!

    Second bold - So from your POV 2H is top dog in PVP but you still want it to be better in PVE so DW is not top dog in either?

    Really?

    How about instead we focus attention for "balance" on more than just sustained dps in group content?

    third bold - are you aware that destro staves are getting a boost in the next patch and the magica users will all benefit from it?
    But also, again, as you point out how if your change was done these folks could wear the same sets as other folks who chose different gear...

    The journey to more diversity does not begin by asking the GPS to "find more sameness."
    (I think now this quote was from Moses - but could be wrong.)

    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    It would only open up more options. This is never a bad thing.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Draconerus wrote: »
    It would only open up more options. This is never a bad thing.

    Really?

    Everyone gets 100 amelstrom weapons of their choice.

    Options opened.

    Never bad?

    greatswords powers all get range added.

    opens up options.

    never bad?

    2h sword already best in PVP (according to some) gets buffed to be as good in PVE as DW so now nobody uses DW which also costs twice the amount to quality as the greatsword did.

    never bad?


    taking something one thing has and just giving it to another thing that has different stuff is not always never bad.

    Edited by STEVIL on January 30, 2017 8:49PM
    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • acw37162
    acw37162
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    I'm fine with it, so long as when implemented all 2h weapons and skill lines are adjusted (read here nerfed) to account for the afforded buff of an extra five piece set bonus.
  • Emmagoldman
    Emmagoldman
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    I think its fine. 2h is a very very strong skill line though not really viable for magsorc. Strong heal, hard hitting gap closer that is spamable, yyyyuge burst with dizzying swing and a hard hitting, spamable execute.

    What would happen if you could.....triple proc stacking. As a magsorc, we would be on the recieving end of

    Viper.....validreth....widowmaker....

    6720viper, 7480 widow, 10300, off of a 4000 crit rush, heavy, dizzy swing, execute. Of course other factors (resists and crits of skill abilities.) And dmg is half in Cyrodill, however if all three proc in cyrodill, and you get hit with a crit rush with shields down,or at the end of six secs, your going down in one hit or at 3k-5k health and they would spam their execute.

    I would say if crit rush had increased stam cost if spammed then sure.
  • Mr_Apollo
    Mr_Apollo
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    Definitely want this. Goddamm I want to use 2handed weapons on both bars and just be as powerful as a dual wielder (ending in me not getting kicked instantly)
    "Am I truly lost? Is this the end of me? Perhaps...just like all stories have a beginning, all of them will have an ending"
    ~Brelin Geolas

    "The Divines gave you a nose for a reason, Tharn. So you can keep your mouth shut and still keep breathing"
    ~Lyris Titanborn

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    Kornwalsky - Dunmer - Nightblade
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    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    Mr_Apollo wrote: »
    Definitely want this. Goddamm I want to use 2handed weapons on both bars and just be as powerful as a dual wielder (ending in me not getting kicked instantly)

    That is another example of why I would like this. I also have a friend who uses bow and due to using a monster set he cannot have another 5 piece with his bow set on unlike duel wielders.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • Hurika
    Hurika
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    Few questions about this though...
    • Would the mats to craft a 2h be increased to that of crafting 2 x 1h?
    • Would the amount of tempers be doubled at each stage to upgrade a 2h (ie 16 gold tempering alloy, etc)?
    • Would the drop rate of 2h weapons from vMA, dungeons, etc be cut in half? (have to farm for 2 weapons if DW, not for 2h

    I'm not saying it shouldn't but folks need to consider other things in the game.
  • kessik221
    kessik221
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    Dw would still ve king of pve dps because of maelstrom weapon itemization. 2hander gets a dot on charge. How many charge dps builds you see going around?
  • kessik221
    kessik221
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    Yes, by allowing 2handed weapons you will increase build diversity. Why? Because 2hander dps is so far behind that this buff along with a better cleave it could actually close the gap.
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    Not just for DPS however, it would open alternative options for both tanking and healing.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • Vogtard
    Vogtard
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    0681be60a68a4b08c12e05b12445bd3d.png

    Could it be that the mage is holding some kind of orb that counts as an additional set item?
    The right weapon is a lightning staff in a resting pose, so she wasn't casting anything at the moment of taking the photo.
    Edited by Vogtard on February 2, 2017 10:59AM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Why has everything to be a carbon copy of the alternatives? Why must every class have the exact strength and weaknesses of the others? Why should 2h be exact the same like dw?
    Stevil said it countless times - diversity isn't archieved through similitude. DW does somethings better than 2h and vice versa. Like Hurika wrote, one malus of dw is having to farm twice as much weapons and tempers. Btw I never saw an dw user complain about a missing gap closer skill.

    And then again, whould it realy open up builds for diversity or would 2h users wear the exact same 2-5-5 sets any dw/snb build would wear?

    When we follow this through, why don't we get rid of different classes, races and weapon lines alltogether and give everyone the same 10 skills + 2 ulitmates. That would be fair, wouldn't it? But it would be horrible boring.

    I want that my choices matter. If I wield two fruitknives it should be different to smashing someone with the big beater of consternation.
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    It is
    Why has everything to be a carbon copy of the alternatives? Why must every class have the exact strength and weaknesses of the others? Why should 2h be exact the same like dw?
    Stevil said it countless times - diversity isn't archieved through similitude. DW does somethings better than 2h and vice versa. Like Hurika wrote, one malus of dw is having to farm twice as much weapons and tempers. Btw I never saw an dw user complain about a missing gap closer skill.

    And then again, whould it realy open up builds for diversity or would 2h users wear the exact same 2-5-5 sets any dw/snb build would wear?

    When we follow this through, why don't we get rid of different classes, races and weapon lines alltogether and give everyone the same 10 skills + 2 ulitmates. That would be fair, wouldn't it? But it would be horrible boring.

    I want that my choices matter. If I wield two fruitknives it should be different to smashing someone with the big beater of consternation.

    It is different, what we are asking for is equality in set choice bonuses.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    LOL at people thinking that changing 2H from 2x set A, 5x set B, 4x set C to 2x set A, 5x set B, 5x set (mostly) C would destroy diversity.

    LOL at people thinking 2x set A, 5x set B and 4x (+5th second bar) alchemist (or one of very very few other sets working like it) is somehow diverse or even comparatable to 2+5 + ANY 5

    To all others there is YES, universal answer to every balancing question. Make them less powerful? Yes. Make them cost x times more? Yes. Make them hard to grind? Yes. I give you yes to everything. Because I am not developer and neither are you. So it doesnt matter if your questions is ridiculous. Neither you, nor I will decide if or how big buff it is.

    This current "diversity" is like celebrating stupidity, because it would be limiting if everybody was smart.
    Edited by SodanTok on February 2, 2017 5:05PM
  • joshisanonymous
    joshisanonymous
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    I think the changes they're making to Destruction Staff passives are a good alternative to making two handed weapons equivalent to holding two weapons. You increase build diversity by increasing the number of choices between multiple viable options. For instance, if you're going for magicka damage, you will now have to choose between the Destro passives giving % dmg increase and a second 5 bonus set if you go with DW. Both are perfectly valid options but not identical.
    Fedrals / EP / Dunmer Nightblade

  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    I posted above and nothing changes in my opinion. Two handed weapons and bows are very powerfull in PvP as is. They should take a slight nerf to overall damage in order to compensate for PvP damage. Theres a reason why most stamina builds run two handed and bow. The utility of the bow is outstanding simply because of the nature of PvP being so zergy and and how easy it is to stand in the back and snipe as opposed to crit rushing into a mob of players only to die a few seconds later. Most of my frustrations come from a magplar perspective. As a magplar, not being able to have 12 slots for set bonuses really gimps me. Can you imagine not being able to slot a monster set for damage? Now of course many players do this...and it can be effective if played right. I know a particular templar in my main pvp guild who does GREAT in all gear setups in PvP. But would it really be too much to ask to get to use all slots and a destro staff? It would be neat to be able to have my heavy attacks mean somthing again.

    In magplar PvE content...every top end templar is geared the exact same (many times in PvP although not nearly as important in PvP to wear BIS gear). Most slot a destro staff on off bar and dw on mainbar and use mostly templar damaging abilities. Now we do this to GREAT effect, but would it be too much to ask to give me the option to run a destro staff mainbar and backbar? For different abilities of course, but for a equivalent DPS ranged build to work in PvE land...

    Alot of you sit here and say "oh you only want every one to be the exact same!!", but...it already is like that, what we are suggesting is that you bring the other weapons inline to a DW set for PvE, magic and stamina. I mean you dont find it odd that the best DPS in game for mag/ stam is mostly done by DW and upclose abilities? And realistically even with two set bonuses for one two handed weapon, you are closing the gap, but still not surpasung DW DPS. The problem here is more so how do you balance PvP against PvE. You surely cant buff the bow DPS in PvE because its already the most used stamina weapon in PvP, you cant buff two hander in PvE cause its already the second most used weapon in PvP, doing so would cement their use over DW in PvP. Even in the name of balance in PvE.

    I truly want weapon diversity in PvP and PvE, gear choice is not so important, it normally doesny change HOW you play, (a few exceptions in PvP mostly, choosing hawk eye cements that you want strong bow numbers, while choosing shield breaker cements more of a LA heavy build). The WEAPONS are what im looking at here. You have a player who wants to be a melee assassin/ DW dagger toon and wears hundings and TBS, you could have a player who wants to be an upclose two handed heavy hitter with slower attacks who wears the same gear. Both examples yes...they have the same gear, but their playstyles and rotations are going to be very different, but ultimately they are diverse in playstyle. In contrast today, you have a player who wants to dual bow and compete in trials, but cant...because hes not pulling 2/3 the damage of a DW user. And is being told that he will submit to the meta GTFO.

    And you sit here and say you want diversity? You absolutely do not want diversity, this game and all others will always have a a PvE damage meta! But at the least you can lessen the gap between the weapons so that players arent being shafted into being forced to use your DW set up.
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    I dont know...im not a dev. But i do know that 5 piece bonuses today are much better than the old three agility, mealstrom weapon, monster set setup for days of old. And ulitimately i am very happy with this game. I do not know the best route to buffing two hander/ bow/ destro. But it needs to happen. And the slight buff to destro staff is just...not enough, nor is the slight buff to bow...not...enough. two set bonuses would quickly ing things into line
  • Rust_in_Peace
    Rust_in_Peace
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    I think it would be great.

    Less dependence on Maelstrom weapons to be competitive is always a good thing. It should be an option not the be all end all.
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    Yes, the Maelstrom/vDSA meta is impossible for some users to do unfortunately.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
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