Uselessness? lol

Reduce Frags damage by 15% (or better the proc chance to something like 10%), Liquid Lightning damage by 15% and revert Curse back to its previous state. Get rid of the ridiculous damage ticks from the imp (at least 20-30% less damage) and that's it. Or just buff the other classes, MagBlade for example.

Not Frags, not Curse, not Liquid Lightning are particularly strong by themselves (although they're great skills) but the combination of them is. Plus the best execute in game (when you've got more than one target).

Seraphayel wrote: »

Uselessness? lol

Reduce Frags damage by 15% (or better the proc chance to something like 10%), Liquid Lightning damage by 15% and revert Curse back to its previous state. Get rid of the ridiculous damage ticks from the imp (at least 20-30% less damage) and that's it. Or just buff the other classes, MagBlade for example.

Not Frags, not Curse, not Liquid Lightning are particularly strong by themselves (although they're great skills) but the combination of them is. Plus the best execute in game (when you've got more than one target).

Nerfs are not needed in the least.

MagSorcs are in a great place. They are the best dps in pve. And a super solid class in PvP, and are very easy to use. That's nothing that should be shunned or nerfed. Other classes just need slight buffs to stay in line.

The only thing I really take notice of in this thread are people trying to say that it's this super hard class to play. It's not, it's dead easy to use and do well with in PvE and PvP.

But as to the OP's original query. It's the best dps PvE and a strong class PvP.

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What exactly is “hard“ when it comes to playing a Sorc? Compared to a Nightblade, Sorc is super easy and it doesn't matter if Stamina or Magicka. And I am not talking about one shot ganker Nightblades but the ones that rely on rotations / other things than stacking buffs and onehitting players.

Sorc is super easy from start to finish.

Ummm nope. Magsorc is a case of high skill floor high skill ceiling. An average player cannot burst people down while maintaining shields.
Yes hardest to play is magblade, no argument in that.
Yes stamsorc is case of low skill floor but powerful af, no argument in that.

Again, I don't see it. Why is Magsorc harder than MagDK or Magblade in that case? They've still got the best tools in burning down somebody. And I'd say both MagDKs and Magblades are much more squishy than Magsorcs. I mean Crystal Frag (+Curse) is such an easy tool to burst somebody down and CC them as well. Burst somebody down as MagDK? Yeah well... Sorc is just pretty easy compared to every other class in ESO except Beamplars.

Again, average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They either stack wards nonstop and deal 0 damage, or they 1vX everyone, that's magsorc for you, high skill ceiling high skill floor.
Timing curse + frag is easy for skilled players, but for average players, it's not, especially with all the required animation cancelling to do the combo quickly. They will most likely mess up their burst combo and the opponent doesn't die. Magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player.

MagDK is not about burst, it's all about keeping the pressure on the opponent. It's a completely different playstyle.

Yes, average players can't. Neither an average Sorc nor an average DK. I mean, at least Sorcs have a class based ward or hard hitting insta with burst. DKs and NBs don't. An average Sorc still gets more out of the class than an average DK or NB, especially for Magicka builds. That's my point.

As I said, it's case of high skill floor. It doesn't matter if you have ward and frag if you cannot utilize them. The point is, it's harder to be a good magsorc than to be a good stamDK for example. Yes, becoming a good magsorc is easier than becoming a good magblade for sure, magblade is the hardest class to play, highest skill floor, hands down. Maybe it's easier to be a good magsorc than to be a good magdk for some people (I still perform better with magdk, so let's say they are equally hard to master) but even if magdk is harder to play, that leaves stamsorc, stamdk, stamblade, stamplar, magplar left.

My point remains, magsorc is a case of high skill ceiling high skill floor. If you do well with it, you will 1vX every average player in the game. If you are just average, like the majority of the playerbase, you are not going to get anything out of a magsorc. It's easier to be decent at other classes, like stamdk, stamsorc, magplar etc than to be decent at magsorc.

Lol it's not easier than stamDK or any stam for that matter. In PvP magSorc is easy. It's an easy class, that's good for beginners. It's hard to master I'll say that. But so is any class. I'd say it's harder to 1vX on a magSorc than it is on stam classes, (even that though...)

Again, magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player. Average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They will most likely mess up the curse + frag combo timing and nothing dies. What's good of a magsorc when you cannot time your execute?
As I said, high skill floor.

Lololololol. Listen and get that magSorc is your class. And everyone wants to feel like an underdog. But c'mon be real, magSorc is meant for the average player. Now it does take skill to 1vX and any of the like on a magSorc but anyone can pick up a magSorc and do alright.

Now for this average player routine you got going.

Let's say we take an average player on a sorc and an average player on a StamDK. The sorc wins. He mine camps and the "average" player on stamDK doesn't know how to counter this. He just wants to wrecking blow spam like "average" players do, and will eat mines like crazy.

lololol. Firstly, magsorc is not my main. I main stamplar and stamdk. As I am average (or slightly below average), I cannot get the burst combo (curse+frag) right most of the time, especially with all the clunky animation cancelling required to burst people quick, and what's the point of being magsorc if you cannot utilize the burst combo? For other classes, you can keep spamming your spammable and occasionally heal until the enemy is low, then you execute. You cannot spam Force pulse until the enemy is low, Force Pulse is not good at keeping the pressure, especially when you have to keep your wards on (or you will die), the only way for you to kill someone is to time your combo, which is hard for average players.

Secondly, you seriously don't get the point at all lololol. Listen, ok I will spell it out for you: the point is that: It is harder to become an average magsorc than to become an average stamdk. High skill floor, get it?

I get what you're saying, it's just wrong. Not to be rude but if you are unable to click curse then force pulse till frag procs.... I don't know what to say. And again what will that average stamDK spamming wrecking blow do to mines.

It's very easy. For low and high tier players. Maybe learn to count in your head or something so you can get the shield and curse down. If you fail at the first curse combi reshield then try again.

But go on with your wrecking blow running into mines.

Ummm no, haha, now I wonder how good your magsorc is. If you curse then force pulse till frag procs, you will miss out the burst most of the time because curse will explode in 3.5 seconds and there's no guarantee that the force pulse after that will proc frag. You want to force pulse until frag proc, then curse right away, then execute, after that, force pulse if needed. Even if you know the proper rotation, in real world performance, if you are not mechanically skilled, you will mess it up sometimes, or most of the time. You see, the thing is, if you want to do this combo effectively, you will need to do a lot of animation cancelling to execute the combo quick, else you will die because your ward runs out.

You see, average players don't even know about this combo, not to mention executing it effectively, especially with all the animation cancelling. It's easier to do relatively well with a stamdk, just spam your spammable then execute when the enemy is low, heal when you need to, you don't need to learn any combo, you don't need to time anything, you don't need to worry about keeping your wards up. Tl,dr: high skill floor.

cpuScientist wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Uselessness? lol

Reduce Frags damage by 15% (or better the proc chance to something like 10%), Liquid Lightning damage by 15% and revert Curse back to its previous state. Get rid of the ridiculous damage ticks from the imp (at least 20-30% less damage) and that's it. Or just buff the other classes, MagBlade for example.

Not Frags, not Curse, not Liquid Lightning are particularly strong by themselves (although they're great skills) but the combination of them is. Plus the best execute in game (when you've got more than one target).

Nerfs are not needed in the least.

As I said. Nerfs are needed when there won't be any buffs for other classes. MagSorc right now is too strong, period.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

He ^ uses this.

No, it's something much simpler:

thankyourat wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

So soon as sorc is a threat again. The nerf sorc threads are already in full swing ah? Remember guys when yall have a class like sorc nerfed to the ground. Yall hurt yalls self more then players like my self. I'm going to show yall why too. Get ready. are yall ready? Here's why

http://imgur.com/a/5Nlkf

Sorry guys. Lets nerf Sorc, so I can be OP on the next OP class in the cycle. Because the problem is not the class. It's the gear, and or out of class abilites and ultimates that all the classes share. But hey.... hurr hurr hurr. ZOS please nerf Sorc, to uselessness again, because I'm so... durr durr durr.

Again if yall get sorc nerfed again to uselessness. My kind will just adapt and jump on the next in line. mDK or Magblade, or maybe it'll make me play Magplar again.

Lol when were sorcs useless. Magsorc has been top tier since I started playing. Even after the nerfs in dark brotherhood they were still one of the best classes

You evidently started late enough. 2014 and 2015 were crap years for being a sorc. Useless pets, the lowest damage of any class, forced to discard trial gear and use mix match stuff like Martial set just to squeeze out some more juice.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorcs are in a great place. They are the best dps in pve. And a super solid class in PvP, and are very easy to use. That's nothing that should be shunned or nerfed. Other classes just need slight buffs to stay in line.

The only thing I really take notice of in this thread are people trying to say that it's this super hard class to play. It's not, it's dead easy to use and do well with in PvE and PvP.

But as to the OP's original query. It's the best dps PvE and a strong class PvP.

Where did this idea come from that magsorcs are ez mode? They're not a simple class to play if you want to be anything other than mediocre.

They are. At least when it comes to Magicka they're the easiest class to play (with Templars).

At this point, is where you post proof of your sorc doing 57k DPS in a trial and your 1 vs X PvP video where you dispatch wave after wave of total noobs.

If not, don't talk, nobody believes you.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorcs are in a great place. They are the best dps in pve. And a super solid class in PvP, and are very easy to use. That's nothing that should be shunned or nerfed. Other classes just need slight buffs to stay in line.

The only thing I really take notice of in this thread are people trying to say that it's this super hard class to play. It's not, it's dead easy to use and do well with in PvE and PvP.

But as to the OP's original query. It's the best dps PvE and a strong class PvP.

Where did this idea come from that magsorcs are ez mode? They're not a simple class to play if you want to be anything other than mediocre.

They are. At least when it comes to Magicka they're the easiest class to play (with Templars).

At this point, is where you post proof of your sorc doing 57k DPS in a trial and your 1 vs X PvP video where you dispatch wave after wave of total noobs.

If not, don't talk, nobody believes you.

Tell me, what exactly is difficult when it comes to playing a MagSorc? Is it harder to play than a MagBlade? No? So why even discuss this? There are more than enough threads with DPS inside that clearly show how well Sorcs are doing compared to other specs that require more skill / devotion to succeed with.

Molydeus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorcs are in a great place. They are the best dps in pve. And a super solid class in PvP, and are very easy to use. That's nothing that should be shunned or nerfed. Other classes just need slight buffs to stay in line.

The only thing I really take notice of in this thread are people trying to say that it's this super hard class to play. It's not, it's dead easy to use and do well with in PvE and PvP.

But as to the OP's original query. It's the best dps PvE and a strong class PvP.

Where did this idea come from that magsorcs are ez mode? They're not a simple class to play if you want to be anything other than mediocre.

They are. At least when it comes to Magicka they're the easiest class to play (with Templars).

All classes are easy to pick up and play. This is not a difficult game. All you need is a basic build and rotation which a dozen websites purport to have the best version of and voila, you are a solid B player. Playing any class decently in ESO is copy and paste, as ez mode as it gets. If you want to be a good magsorc on the other hand, you can't just faceroll the class and expect superior results. Again, this goes back to high skill ceiling. Playing a magsorc extremely well is harder than most classes to pull off, I don't care what you think about the class from a layman's perspective.

Why is it harder than most other classes? If the average MagSorc playstyle is easier than playing a MagBlade it doesn't change when it gets to playing “extremely well“. It is not harder to play a Sorc “extremely well“ when you compare it to other specs that you want to play “extremely well“, too.

---

I really like Sorcs. They're a great class. But I can't play one because they're all the same, copy and paste builds from the internet, doing exactly the same. And the biggest issue: they can succeed with it because it's not that hard to be a Sorc (this problem is not Sorc exclusive). Fellow Sorcs may say otherwise but it doesn't change the recent state of the game / class.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tell me, what exactly is difficult when it comes to playing a MagSorc? Is it harder to play than a MagBlade? No? So why even discuss this? There are more than enough threads with DPS inside that clearly show how well Sorcs are doing compared to other specs that require more skill / devotion to succeed with.

Ok, I got it, you have nothing to back your words with.

Listen, just because some Hodor or other top world guild player who belongs to the 0.01% elite can achieve huge results, does not mean it's relevant to the remaining 99.99%.

It's like your town major decided to configure semaphores to let pedestrians cross a road in 1 second, because Usain Bolt could do it. Won't happen.

Games balance is not made on the top worldwide achiever, but on statistics, gaussians and standard deviations.

ZoS or other companies have those statistics. They'll show 3+ sigma players like an Hodor sorc player achieving the incredible, but this means 99.73% of the remaining players do much worse.

The game is tuned to those 99.73% not the 3+ sigma guys. Otherwise, good luck keeping just 50 players in your MMO.

I have seen a very competent sorc player who can solo a trial boss deal 31k DPS, not 57k. I have seen and played with "potential" 57k DPS sorcs (they copied the build) who:

1) Don't make more than 40k.
2) Since the spec is so extreme, they have low health, require perfect boosting by other players and they die all the time and are less useful than somebody doing SOLID 40k without dying.

So what?

This still leaves you to prove you can even vaguely do the "easy sorc gameplay". Hodor sorcs don't say that.

So, since YOU say it, you prove it, or don't say anything.

Seraphayel wrote: »

I really like Sorcs. They're a great class. But I can't play one because they're all the same, copy and paste builds from the internet, doing exactly the same. And the biggest issue: they can succeed with it because it's not that hard to be a Sorc (this problem is not Sorc exclusive). Fellow Sorcs may say otherwise but it doesn't change the recent state of the game / class.

EVERY single MMO got fansites showing min maxed or "best tuned" builds for every class.
So, if you are bored about copy pasted builds you may as well quit playing MMOs. Or - you know - you could do like me and others and take an idea from an internet build and then customize it on your own needs.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Tell me, what exactly is difficult when it comes to playing a MagSorc? Is it harder to play than a MagBlade? No? So why even discuss this? There are more than enough threads with DPS inside that clearly show how well Sorcs are doing compared to other specs that require more skill / devotion to succeed with.

Ok, I got it, you have nothing to back your words with.

Listen, just because some Hodor or other top world guild player who belongs to the 0.01% elite can achieve huge results, does not mean it's relevant to the remaining 99.99%.

It's like your town major decided to configure semaphores to let pedestrians cross a road in 1 second, because Usain Bolt could do it. Won't happen.

Games balance is not made on the top worldwide achiever, but on statistics, gaussians and standard deviations.

ZoS or other companies have those statistics. They'll show 3+ sigma players like an Hodor sorc player achieving the incredible, but this means 99.73% of the remaining players do much worse.

The game is tuned to those 99.73% not the 3+ sigma guys. Otherwise, good luck keeping just 50 players in your MMO.

I have seen a very competent sorc player who can solo a trial boss deal 31k DPS, not 57k. I have seen and played with "potential" 57k DPS sorcs (they copied the build) who:

1) Don't make more than 40k.
2) Since the spec is so extreme, they have low health, require perfect boosting by other players and they die all the time and are less useful than somebody doing SOLID 40k without dying.

So what?

This still leaves you to prove you can even vaguely do the "easy sorc gameplay". Hodor sorcs don't say that.

So, since YOU say it, you prove it, or don't say anything.

Seraphayel wrote: »

I really like Sorcs. They're a great class. But I can't play one because they're all the same, copy and paste builds from the internet, doing exactly the same. And the biggest issue: they can succeed with it because it's not that hard to be a Sorc (this problem is not Sorc exclusive). Fellow Sorcs may say otherwise but it doesn't change the recent state of the game / class.

EVERY single MMO got fansites showing min maxed or "best tuned" builds for every class.
So, if you are bored about copy pasted builds you may as well quit playing MMOs. Or - you know - you could do like me and others and take an idea from an internet build and then customize it on your own needs.

Spec is so extreme? Just put on BSW or Necropotence. You have room for a shield on the back bar so you are not dying lol. And you just need magicka steal on boss and an orb now and then. Same like every other mag class. What's this extreme spec?

A magBlade MagDk MagPlar will all have this in trials spammable, dots, shield.

What you are explaining is basically the Stam problem where they can pull likewise numbers however they have no shield so they usually die a bit more than mag, being why stam is usually not brought. Which is why we have this stupid mag meta, leaving alot of players who only use stam to be shunned lol, BANISHED from core runs....

cpuScientist wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Everyone I know with VMA flawless conqueror did it with a mag-sorc. Must be a big coincidence.

Any ranged dps build can easily do flawless conqueror.

Any stamina melee build with VO in 20 runs can learn how to do 550k points.

HAHA yeah right!

Flawless Conqueror used to be hard. On everything but Mag Sorc and Mag NB. So yeah, he is right when he's saying that any ranged class can easily get Flawless with practice.

And he's more than right in saying that stamina builds are much better in vMA and much easier to get Flawless on if you know what you're doing and have proper gear (20 runs to reach 550k on a stamina build seems about right if you're starting at 0 btw).

Know what you're doing is the key point there. Stamina is better for score runs after you have learned the arena very well.

Know what you're doing is the key point everywhere!