Is it just me or are Magika Sorcs the best for both PvP and PvE now??

alexkdd99 · March 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

LOL at all the sorcs jumping in to defend the most powerful class in the game.

Lol at the people posting opinion as fact. Sorcs have been nerfed repeatedly. Name one other class that was hit with the ultimate nerf. Yes mag got buffed across the board with destro buffs, but that is ALL mag toons.

They are strong right now but that will change as new patches come out. Stam had it made in the proc set meta, up until this last patch.

More buffs and nerfs will come as they always do. So all these people can continue to cry while I play the game.

All these people talking about shield stacking makes me think they have not played mag sorc for a while. 6 second shield make it very hard to stack shield in combat. Sure you can stack them just before combat but that will be gone very quickly. Good luck spamming 2 shield while also trying to burst someone down. Talk about wasting resources.

Also didn't a stamblade just post the highest vma score on 1 of the platforms. Not sure, but I think I saw that somewhere.

cpuScientist · March 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What exactly is “hard“ when it comes to playing a Sorc? Compared to a Nightblade, Sorc is super easy and it doesn't matter if Stamina or Magicka. And I am not talking about one shot ganker Nightblades but the ones that rely on rotations / other things than stacking buffs and onehitting players.

Sorc is super easy from start to finish.

Ummm nope. Magsorc is a case of high skill floor high skill ceiling. An average player cannot burst people down while maintaining shields.
Yes hardest to play is magblade, no argument in that.
Yes stamsorc is case of low skill floor but powerful af, no argument in that.

Again, I don't see it. Why is Magsorc harder than MagDK or Magblade in that case? They've still got the best tools in burning down somebody. And I'd say both MagDKs and Magblades are much more squishy than Magsorcs. I mean Crystal Frag (+Curse) is such an easy tool to burst somebody down and CC them as well. Burst somebody down as MagDK? Yeah well... Sorc is just pretty easy compared to every other class in ESO except Beamplars.

Again, average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They either stack wards nonstop and deal 0 damage, or they 1vX everyone, that's magsorc for you, high skill ceiling high skill floor.
Timing curse + frag is easy for skilled players, but for average players, it's not, especially with all the required animation cancelling to do the combo quickly. They will most likely mess up their burst combo and the opponent doesn't die. Magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player.

MagDK is not about burst, it's all about keeping the pressure on the opponent. It's a completely different playstyle.

Yes, average players can't. Neither an average Sorc nor an average DK. I mean, at least Sorcs have a class based ward or hard hitting insta with burst. DKs and NBs don't. An average Sorc still gets more out of the class than an average DK or NB, especially for Magicka builds. That's my point.

As I said, it's case of high skill floor. It doesn't matter if you have ward and frag if you cannot utilize them. The point is, it's harder to be a good magsorc than to be a good stamDK for example. Yes, becoming a good magsorc is easier than becoming a good magblade for sure, magblade is the hardest class to play, highest skill floor, hands down. Maybe it's easier to be a good magsorc than to be a good magdk for some people (I still perform better with magdk, so let's say they are equally hard to master) but even if magdk is harder to play, that leaves stamsorc, stamdk, stamblade, stamplar, magplar left.

My point remains, magsorc is a case of high skill ceiling high skill floor. If you do well with it, you will 1vX every average player in the game. If you are just average, like the majority of the playerbase, you are not going to get anything out of a magsorc. It's easier to be decent at other classes, like stamdk, stamsorc, magplar etc than to be decent at magsorc.

Lol it's not easier than stamDK or any stam for that matter. In PvP magSorc is easy. It's an easy class, that's good for beginners. It's hard to master I'll say that. But so is any class. I'd say it's harder to 1vX on a magSorc than it is on stam classes, (even that though...)

Again, magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player. Average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They will most likely mess up the curse + frag combo timing and nothing dies. What's good of a magsorc when you cannot time your execute?
As I said, high skill floor.

Lololololol. Listen and get that magSorc is your class. And everyone wants to feel like an underdog. But c'mon be real, magSorc is meant for the average player. Now it does take skill to 1vX and any of the like on a magSorc but anyone can pick up a magSorc and do alright.

Now for this average player routine you got going.

Let's say we take an average player on a sorc and an average player on a StamDK. The sorc wins. He mine camps and the "average" player on stamDK doesn't know how to counter this. He just wants to wrecking blow spam like "average" players do, and will eat mines like crazy.

Kay1 · March 2017

In a 1vX situation if you face a magdk you're done.

So you can only focus him to death and try to stay alive or just get perma cc and root.

For group yes they are OP because of their high damage and negate being very good against the typical PvP casuals (90% of Cyrodiil)

cpuScientist · March 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Mashille

Alright, no hard feelings then.

Like I said, these ranged options would not put any decent MagSorc down but I was more into your comment that there are no option to go ranged beside Bow and Shrouded Dagger. So yes, I do see your point that melee combatants have a hard time agains mine sitting sorcs. But isn't that inherent? A melee fighter struggling against the hard counter to melee?

I know that scales don't reflect CS anymore. That's why I wrote in past tense. Or at least I tried to. And I also don't think that spamming Mage's Wrath on full health targets is a good idea. Compared to CS, it deals just to little damage. But that doesn't matter anymore.

You are right about killers blade. Don't know how I came to think it was ranged, maybe because the other morph is. I stand corrected.

And therein lies the point of what makes magSorc so good. They have THE melee counter, in addition to easy burst and the ability to shield stack. And you know how many classes are primarily melee? MagDK, MagPlar, StamDk, StamPlar, StamBlade, StamSorc.

I'm not saying magSorc is OP, they are beatable but it takes a skilled player to take down a good magSorc. You have to know and perform some advanced PvP tactics, such as burst timing for your class, working around mines, how to deal with shields, how to spot their burst combo.

It's a very safe setup. And when speaking of average players. An average sorc beats average everything else lol.

cpuScientist · March 2017

MahSorc is easy to pic

Kay1 wrote: »

In a 1vX situation if you face a magdk you're done.

So you can only focus him to death and try to stay alive or just get perma cc and root.

For group yes they are OP because of their high damage and negate being very good against the typical PvP casuals (90% of Cyrodiil)

You mean if the magDK is part of the X right. In that case, yeah a magDK will be a bigger threat than the magSorc. But not because they are the one that's going to kill you, but because they are going to root you there for the bursty classes to kill you. Although a mag sorc can do the same with encase or an ice staff lol.

Mephisto939 · March 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

All these people talking about shield stacking makes me think they have not played mag sorc for a while. 6 second shield make it very hard to stack shield in combat. Sure you can stack them just before combat but that will be gone very quickly. Good luck spamming 2 shield while also trying to burst someone down. Talk about wasting resources.

I guess you've never witnessed the 10 minute mage sorc duels where neither can kill the other person because they are both stacking shields. It's still very doable.

Vahrokh · March 2017

I see repeated the same wrong arguments:

1) Sorcs are strong in PvP so it's just fine to gimp them (again!) back to useless for PvE by some nuclear carpet bombing nerf.
2) Sorcs pets are too strong
3) Class XXXX is not taken in trials because is not as strong as Sorcs
4) Sorcs can do high DPS from range, melee should.
5) Playing five buttons is what they do on DOTA hence it's skillful gameplay.
6) Shield stacking makes Sorcs overpowered, NERF Sorcs.

1) Sorcs used to be the garbage of ESO for years. Not even their trials set(s) were worth anything, I have deconstructed more Aether gear than picked Craglorn metals.
No, sorry. Sorcs endured about 2.5 years of being the bottom feeder, it's time the others taste it for a while.
In little time, Wardens will come anyway and - having played similar classes for a decade - I already know they will make sorcs (and everybody else) look like they are little insects.

2) Sorcs pets are the class defining trait. For years, they used to be so useless and bad, they used to be employed just to explode. Even the "tank" pet, was dying to 1-2 regular quest NPCs and that's it. Now they finally do something worthwhile and you want them made crap again.

Yes, Volatile Familiar is too strong in PvE, with such big AoE damage and could use a nerf imo.
The Matriarch is barely viable, in the sense it still dies like no tomorrow, so it's fine. I even morphed her in the no heal, DPS only version and her DPS is still no match to the Volatile familiar and dies easily.
The Clanfear now does its job. Clanfear is strong when the one set for doing so is employed, but that set is not the DPS records breaker, nobody does more than 31k DPS with that (even spamming potions), so it's not trials worthy.

3) Sorcs have spent YEARS being least wanted in trials. In 2014 and 2015 the competitive guilds did not accept sorcs at trials at all and that's it.
This attitude is not unique to ESO playerbase, either. In SWTOR, in 2014 my Shadow would NEVER be taken to an Operation (Operations are what ESO calls "Trials"), neither as DPS nor a offtank. Today my SWTOR Sorc would NEVER be taken as DPS, not even in 4 men instances! Only heals.
Let's not even talk about WoW, where for years I could not join any Raid nor Arenas as Druid if not for pure healing.

Considering I have suffered years being not accepted class in ESO and years in SWTOR and years in WoW, it really stinks to me seeing the same arguments again and again.
Needless to say, I quit the various games mentioned above for years too. They are too incompetent to make my classes viable? I don't pay them. Period. Like me, tens of thousand others. Both SWTOR and ESO were forced to become F2P due to mass defections after their endless screwups with classes balance.

What we have to aim to, is to make everyone welcome to trials, not to have class "vendettas" that only alienate players.

4) This is only apparently a good point. It really makes sense, expecially on a RPG point of view. However, we live in a MMO, where competitive guilds don't have ANY consideration about the range you play from. If you do subpar DPS you sit out and that's it, no matter if you are ranged or melee. DPS check bosses don't care if you are ranged. Do less DPS and they go enrage and you wipe. That's it.

In order to make ranged DPS lower damage but still accepted, then you must do like WoW did 10+ years ago: create encounters where melee is downright impossible or so difficult that guilds will take ranged DPS.

This had two downsides: melee players complained and rioted until Blizzard removed these artificial "barriers" and then ranged DPS immediately became pointless with their low damage.
Even before that, ranged DPS players had to sit out for 3 hours and then be allowed to join just for the *1* special, ranged friendly encounter and then they'd be told to leave again and let melee DPS back in.

Needless to say, this sucks. Plus bosses would drop certain "mage" / hunter etc. gear pieces only at certain melee friendly bosses, so ranged DPS were double screwed: unable to compete, unable to get better gear to compete.

End result: everyone have to be equal DPS, otherwise good luck getting a spot.

5) I am sorry some feel it's hard to dodge and click 8 buttons instead of five. No, it's not. Buy a decent mouse so you roll, block and interrupt with your right hand and have the left hand free to do something more. I am using a Sensei mouse but there are certainly hundreds that could do.

6) Shield stacking should not exist, period. I think this wicked mechanic has been born exactly like light / med weaving: from a game BUG that ZoS made into a feature. But while I can see weaving as very fair - everyone can do it - stacking should just be removed. ZoS thinks 2 shields are "needed", I and many others don't.

I'd rather see stacking go than see PvE DPS be gutted again. I do NOT CARE to have zillion of shielding when I am called to be pure DPS in a trial. I DO care if they make me unviable again just to let a DPS class be PvP tanky.

cpuScientist · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

I see repeated the same wrong arguments:

1) Sorcs are strong in PvP so it's just fine to gimp them (again!) back to useless for PvE by some nuclear carpet bombing nerf.
2) Sorcs pets are too strong
3) Class XXXX is not taken in trials because is not as strong as Sorcs
4) Sorcs can do high DPS from range, melee should.
5) Playing five buttons is what they do on DOTA hence it's skillful gameplay.
6) Shield stacking makes Sorcs overpowered, NERF Sorcs.

1) Sorcs used to be the garbage of ESO for years. Not even their trials set(s) were worth anything, I have deconstructed more Aether gear than picked Craglorn metals.
No, sorry. Sorcs endured about 2.5 years of being the bottom feeder, it's time the others taste it for a while.
In little time, Wardens will come anyway and - having played similar classes for a decade - I already know they will make sorcs (and everybody else) look like they are little insects.

2) Sorcs pets are the class defining trait. For years, they used to be so useless and bad, they used to be employed just to explode. Even the "tank" pet, was dying to 1-2 regular quest NPCs and that's it. Now they finally do something worthwhile and you want them made crap again.

Yes, Volatile Familiar is too strong in PvE, with such big AoE damage and could use a nerf imo.
The Matriarch is barely viable, in the sense it still dies like no tomorrow, so it's fine. I even morphed her in the no heal, DPS only version and her DPS is still no match to the Volatile familiar and dies easily.
The Clanfear now does its job. Clanfear is strong when the one set for doing so is employed, but that set is not the DPS records breaker, nobody does more than 31k DPS with that (even spamming potions), so it's not trials worthy.

3) Sorcs have spent YEARS being least wanted in trials. In 2014 and 2015 the competitive guilds did not accept sorcs at trials at all and that's it.
This attitude is not unique to ESO playerbase, either. In SWTOR, in 2014 my Shadow would NEVER be taken to an Operation (Operations are what ESO calls "Trials"), neither as DPS nor a offtank. Today my SWTOR Sorc would NEVER be taken as DPS, not even in 4 men instances! Only heals.
Let's not even talk about WoW, where for years I could not join any Raid nor Arenas as Druid if not for pure healing.

Considering I have suffered years being not accepted class in ESO and years in SWTOR and years in WoW, it really stinks to me seeing the same arguments again and again.
Needless to say, I quit the various games mentioned above for years too. They are too incompetent to make my classes viable? I don't pay them. Period. Like me, tens of thousand others. Both SWTOR and ESO were forced to become F2P due to mass defections after their endless screwups with classes balance.

What we have to aim to, is to make everyone welcome to trials, not to have class "vendettas" that only alienate players.

4) This is only apparently a good point. It really makes sense, expecially on a RPG point of view. However, we live in a MMO, where competitive guilds don't have ANY consideration about the range you play from. If you do subpar DPS you sit out and that's it, no matter if you are ranged or melee. DPS check bosses don't care if you are ranged. Do less DPS and they go enrage and you wipe. That's it.

In order to make ranged DPS lower damage but still accepted, then you must do like WoW did 10+ years ago: create encounters where melee is downright impossible or so difficult that guilds will take ranged DPS.

This had two downsides: melee players complained and rioted until Blizzard removed these artificial "barriers" and then ranged DPS immediately became pointless with their low damage.
Even before that, ranged DPS players had to sit out for 3 hours and then be allowed to join just for the *1* special, ranged friendly encounter and then they'd be told to leave again and let melee DPS back in.

Needless to say, this sucks. Plus bosses would drop certain "mage" / hunter etc. gear pieces only at certain melee friendly bosses, so ranged DPS were double screwed: unable to compete, unable to get better gear to compete.

End result: everyone have to be equal DPS, otherwise good luck getting a spot.

5) I am sorry some feel it's hard to dodge and click 8 buttons instead of five. No, it's not. Buy a decent mouse so you roll, block and interrupt with your right hand and have the left hand free to do something more. I am using a Sensei mouse but there are certainly hundreds that could do.

6) Shield stacking should not exist, period. I think this wicked mechanic has been born exactly like light / med weaving: from a game BUG that ZoS made into a feature. But while I can see weaving as very fair - everyone can do it - stacking should just be removed. ZoS thinks 2 shields are "needed", I and many others don't.

I'd rather see stacking go than see PvE DPS be gutted again. I do NOT CARE to have zillion of shielding when I am called to be pure DPS in a trial. I DO care if they make me unviable again just to let a DPS class be PvP tanky.

To be clear, I do not want to see my sorc gutted at all. I honestly think they are in a great spot PvP once they fix streak, but that's a big not a feature. And in PvE I think they are overperforming. Ranged shouldn't out DPS melee to such an extent. Many trials need range and it's magBlade and magSorc that fit that role. So they are wanted. The haunting curse buff made them clearly better than magblades. And that's alright, and pets cannot be used in every fight so that too is alright.

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I see repeated the same wrong arguments:

1) Sorcs are strong in PvP so it's just fine to gimp them (again!) back to useless for PvE by some nuclear carpet bombing nerf.
2) Sorcs pets are too strong
3) Class XXXX is not taken in trials because is not as strong as Sorcs
4) Sorcs can do high DPS from range, melee should.
5) Playing five buttons is what they do on DOTA hence it's skillful gameplay.
6) Shield stacking makes Sorcs overpowered, NERF Sorcs.

1) Sorcs used to be the garbage of ESO for years. Not even their trials set(s) were worth anything, I have deconstructed more Aether gear than picked Craglorn metals.
No, sorry. Sorcs endured about 2.5 years of being the bottom feeder, it's time the others taste it for a while.
In little time, Wardens will come anyway and - having played similar classes for a decade - I already know they will make sorcs (and everybody else) look like they are little insects.

2) Sorcs pets are the class defining trait. For years, they used to be so useless and bad, they used to be employed just to explode. Even the "tank" pet, was dying to 1-2 regular quest NPCs and that's it. Now they finally do something worthwhile and you want them made crap again.

Yes, Volatile Familiar is too strong in PvE, with such big AoE damage and could use a nerf imo.
The Matriarch is barely viable, in the sense it still dies like no tomorrow, so it's fine. I even morphed her in the no heal, DPS only version and her DPS is still no match to the Volatile familiar and dies easily.
The Clanfear now does its job. Clanfear is strong when the one set for doing so is employed, but that set is not the DPS records breaker, nobody does more than 31k DPS with that (even spamming potions), so it's not trials worthy.

3) Sorcs have spent YEARS being least wanted in trials. In 2014 and 2015 the competitive guilds did not accept sorcs at trials at all and that's it.
This attitude is not unique to ESO playerbase, either. In SWTOR, in 2014 my Shadow would NEVER be taken to an Operation (Operations are what ESO calls "Trials"), neither as DPS nor a offtank. Today my SWTOR Sorc would NEVER be taken as DPS, not even in 4 men instances! Only heals.
Let's not even talk about WoW, where for years I could not join any Raid nor Arenas as Druid if not for pure healing.

Considering I have suffered years being not accepted class in ESO and years in SWTOR and years in WoW, it really stinks to me seeing the same arguments again and again.
Needless to say, I quit the various games mentioned above for years too. They are too incompetent to make my classes viable? I don't pay them. Period. Like me, tens of thousand others. Both SWTOR and ESO were forced to become F2P due to mass defections after their endless screwups with classes balance.

What we have to aim to, is to make everyone welcome to trials, not to have class "vendettas" that only alienate players.

4) This is only apparently a good point. It really makes sense, expecially on a RPG point of view. However, we live in a MMO, where competitive guilds don't have ANY consideration about the range you play from. If you do subpar DPS you sit out and that's it, no matter if you are ranged or melee. DPS check bosses don't care if you are ranged. Do less DPS and they go enrage and you wipe. That's it.

In order to make ranged DPS lower damage but still accepted, then you must do like WoW did 10+ years ago: create encounters where melee is downright impossible or so difficult that guilds will take ranged DPS.

This had two downsides: melee players complained and rioted until Blizzard removed these artificial "barriers" and then ranged DPS immediately became pointless with their low damage.
Even before that, ranged DPS players had to sit out for 3 hours and then be allowed to join just for the *1* special, ranged friendly encounter and then they'd be told to leave again and let melee DPS back in.

Needless to say, this sucks. Plus bosses would drop certain "mage" / hunter etc. gear pieces only at certain melee friendly bosses, so ranged DPS were double screwed: unable to compete, unable to get better gear to compete.

End result: everyone have to be equal DPS, otherwise good luck getting a spot.

5) I am sorry some feel it's hard to dodge and click 8 buttons instead of five. No, it's not. Buy a decent mouse so you roll, block and interrupt with your right hand and have the left hand free to do something more. I am using a Sensei mouse but there are certainly hundreds that could do.

6) Shield stacking should not exist, period. I think this wicked mechanic has been born exactly like light / med weaving: from a game BUG that ZoS made into a feature. But while I can see weaving as very fair - everyone can do it - stacking should just be removed. ZoS thinks 2 shields are "needed", I and many others don't.

I'd rather see stacking go than see PvE DPS be gutted again. I do NOT CARE to have zillion of shielding when I am called to be pure DPS in a trial. I DO care if they make me unviable again just to let a DPS class be PvP tanky.

To be clear, I do not want to see my sorc gutted at all. I honestly think they are in a great spot PvP once they fix streak, but that's a big not a feature. And in PvE I think they are overperforming. Ranged shouldn't out DPS melee to such an extent. Many trials need range and it's magBlade and magSorc that fit that role. So they are wanted. The haunting curse buff made them clearly better than magblades. And that's alright, and pets cannot be used in every fight so that too is alright.

They were already pretty much objectively better than Magblades to begin with. Now it's practically impossible to justify bringing a Magblade when a MagSorcerer exists. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting your post, but why is that alright? Why is it alright when one class can outright replace the need for another? Magplars and MagDKs both fill the role of melee DPS, but one doesn't remove the reason for the other to exist. Why is it okay for MagSorcerers to do that to Magblades?

Minalan · March 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What exactly is “hard“ when it comes to playing a Sorc? Compared to a Nightblade, Sorc is super easy and it doesn't matter if Stamina or Magicka. And I am not talking about one shot ganker Nightblades but the ones that rely on rotations / other things than stacking buffs and onehitting players.

Sorc is super easy from start to finish.

Ummm nope. Magsorc is a case of high skill floor high skill ceiling. An average player cannot burst people down while maintaining shields.
Yes hardest to play is magblade, no argument in that.
Yes stamsorc is case of low skill floor but powerful af, no argument in that.

Again, I don't see it. Why is Magsorc harder than MagDK or Magblade in that case? They've still got the best tools in burning down somebody. And I'd say both MagDKs and Magblades are much more squishy than Magsorcs. I mean Crystal Frag (+Curse) is such an easy tool to burst somebody down and CC them as well. Burst somebody down as MagDK? Yeah well... Sorc is just pretty easy compared to every other class in ESO except Beamplars.

MagDK? They could still use a few buffs. I don't think Homestead went quite far enough.

Derra wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

oh really? to all the mag sorcs defending their crutch, is this why most high end guilds when it comes to vmol hm only want a team predominatly made up of magicka characters? hhhmmmmm i wonder why.......

I've also yet to see a dromatrha destroyer that is a stam nb on the ps4 meanwhile all the people that have done it are mostly mag characters.

You are in denial that your class is OP and try to bring in BS facts such as shields that only last six seconds and how you have to worry about them so and so. They are INSTANT and you can just spamm! what is so hard about that?! meanwhile stam over here have vigor and guess what? it lasts and and it is a heal over time, not instant! To even have a decent heal in the first place you have to slot rally, oh , nobody wants a noob with a 2h in pve! so to even have decent dps we have to sacrifice our only decent heal worth a damn for stam.

Face it the facts are not in your side when it comes to defending magicka. Two main classes of the GAME are not even sought after for HM trials or even VET TRIALS because some guilds are so picky and only want the best to save the headache and alienate a bunch of other people in the process just because they were not smart to be magicka, silly them. The game should have equal opportunity for everyone but sadly it's not like that.

Now the pvp aspect of magicka, don't even say it's hard to play because i will destroy you with that argument.

I think nobody argues about the pve part - the petbuff was insane.

People are arguing about the pvp part. Sorcs are good but - most people don´t feel they´re best. Take away the crutch that is shieldstacking and they would flatout suck for most players.

It's not a crutch any more than cloaking, breath of life, or wings/talons/fossil are. Shields (and stacking) is THE survival mechanic for sorcerers, and without it the class will suck period.

Mashille · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

It's not a crutch any more than cloaking, breath of life, or wings/talons/fossil are. Shields (and stacking) is THE survival mechanic for sorcerers, and without it the class will suck period.

That is a Major Problem IMO. Classes should not have this whole situation of 'If X class loses X ability they will be trash' that's just flat out bad design. Classes shouldn't have to rely on 1 skill in order to be competitive.

I'm not hating on any classes here, just the game design.

Vahrokh · March 2017

Mashille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

It's not a crutch any more than cloaking, breath of life, or wings/talons/fossil are. Shields (and stacking) is THE survival mechanic for sorcerers, and without it the class will suck period.

That is a Major Problem IMO. Classes should not have this whole situation of 'If X class loses X ability they will be trash' that's just flat out bad design. Classes shouldn't have to rely on 1 skill in order to be competitive.

I'm not hating on any classes here, just the game design.

Exactly. And it's very wrong for ZoS to grip on and stick to that "1 ability to beat em all", because then they will keep it forever, immutable, and destroy everything else good about the sorc just to keep that misplaced stuff running.

People roll a sorc for PETS and DPS, not because of bugged shields that have nothing to do with pets and DPS.

Bouldercleave · March 2017

Mine isn't the best at a DAMN thing - but that is more a L2P issue.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What exactly is “hard“ when it comes to playing a Sorc? Compared to a Nightblade, Sorc is super easy and it doesn't matter if Stamina or Magicka. And I am not talking about one shot ganker Nightblades but the ones that rely on rotations / other things than stacking buffs and onehitting players.

Sorc is super easy from start to finish.

Ummm nope. Magsorc is a case of high skill floor high skill ceiling. An average player cannot burst people down while maintaining shields.
Yes hardest to play is magblade, no argument in that.
Yes stamsorc is case of low skill floor but powerful af, no argument in that.

Again, I don't see it. Why is Magsorc harder than MagDK or Magblade in that case? They've still got the best tools in burning down somebody. And I'd say both MagDKs and Magblades are much more squishy than Magsorcs. I mean Crystal Frag (+Curse) is such an easy tool to burst somebody down and CC them as well. Burst somebody down as MagDK? Yeah well... Sorc is just pretty easy compared to every other class in ESO except Beamplars.

Again, average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They either stack wards nonstop and deal 0 damage, or they 1vX everyone, that's magsorc for you, high skill ceiling high skill floor.
Timing curse + frag is easy for skilled players, but for average players, it's not, especially with all the required animation cancelling to do the combo quickly. They will most likely mess up their burst combo and the opponent doesn't die. Magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player.

MagDK is not about burst, it's all about keeping the pressure on the opponent. It's a completely different playstyle.

Yes, average players can't. Neither an average Sorc nor an average DK. I mean, at least Sorcs have a class based ward or hard hitting insta with burst. DKs and NBs don't. An average Sorc still gets more out of the class than an average DK or NB, especially for Magicka builds. That's my point.

As I said, it's case of high skill floor. It doesn't matter if you have ward and frag if you cannot utilize them. The point is, it's harder to be a good magsorc than to be a good stamDK for example. Yes, becoming a good magsorc is easier than becoming a good magblade for sure, magblade is the hardest class to play, highest skill floor, hands down. Maybe it's easier to be a good magsorc than to be a good magdk for some people (I still perform better with magdk, so let's say they are equally hard to master) but even if magdk is harder to play, that leaves stamsorc, stamdk, stamblade, stamplar, magplar left.

My point remains, magsorc is a case of high skill ceiling high skill floor. If you do well with it, you will 1vX every average player in the game. If you are just average, like the majority of the playerbase, you are not going to get anything out of a magsorc. It's easier to be decent at other classes, like stamdk, stamsorc, magplar etc than to be decent at magsorc.

Lol it's not easier than stamDK or any stam for that matter. In PvP magSorc is easy. It's an easy class, that's good for beginners. It's hard to master I'll say that. But so is any class. I'd say it's harder to 1vX on a magSorc than it is on stam classes, (even that though...)

Again, magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player. Average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They will most likely mess up the curse + frag combo timing and nothing dies. What's good of a magsorc when you cannot time your execute?
As I said, high skill floor.

Lololololol. Listen and get that magSorc is your class. And everyone wants to feel like an underdog. But c'mon be real, magSorc is meant for the average player. Now it does take skill to 1vX and any of the like on a magSorc but anyone can pick up a magSorc and do alright.

Now for this average player routine you got going.

Let's say we take an average player on a sorc and an average player on a StamDK. The sorc wins. He mine camps and the "average" player on stamDK doesn't know how to counter this. He just wants to wrecking blow spam like "average" players do, and will eat mines like crazy.

lololol. Firstly, magsorc is not my main. I main stamplar and stamdk. As I am average (or slightly below average), I cannot get the burst combo (curse+frag) right most of the time, especially with all the clunky animation cancelling required to burst people quick, and what's the point of being magsorc if you cannot utilize the burst combo? For other classes, you can keep spamming your spammable and occasionally heal until the enemy is low, then you execute. You cannot spam Force pulse until the enemy is low, Force Pulse is not good at keeping the pressure, especially when you have to keep your wards on (or you will die), the only way for you to kill someone is to time your combo, which is hard for average players.

Secondly, you seriously don't get the point at all lololol. Listen, ok I will spell it out for you: the point is that: It is harder to become an average magsorc than to become an average stamdk. High skill floor, get it?

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

KingKush wrote: »

Its just you

Sorc is literally the only DPS class brought into trials. Everyone realizes how OP they are except the ignorant.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

5) I am sorry some feel it's hard to dodge and click 8 buttons instead of five. No, it's not. Buy a decent mouse so you roll, block and interrupt with your right hand and have the left hand free to do something more. I am using a Sensei mouse but there are certainly hundreds that could do.

This is a terrible argument. You cannot design a game where a player has to buy a specific mouse to play it right, lol. It will discourage players from buying the game. That's how your game will fail terribly.

Not hard to reach button number 8 while using WASD to move around constantly? Try it yourself. Rebind all your skills to 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Then try some PvP. Good luck.

xblackroxe · March 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

KingKush wrote: »

Its just you

Sorc is literally the only DPS class brought into trials. Everyone realizes how OP they are except the ignorant.

Thats not true. 4 Sorcs and a combination of Dks and Templars.

Minalan · March 2017

Mashille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

It's not a crutch any more than cloaking, breath of life, or wings/talons/fossil are. Shields (and stacking) is THE survival mechanic for sorcerers, and without it the class will suck period.

That is a Major Problem IMO. Classes should not have this whole situation of 'If X class loses X ability they will be trash' that's just flat out bad design. Classes shouldn't have to rely on 1 skill in order to be competitive.

I'm not hating on any classes here, just the game design.

That's the whole 'class diversity' thing. Every class is supposed to have something unique about it to protect themselves.

In this case, Sorcs get a shield. It's not ANY better than the 'dampen' morph of the light armor shield (which is even same SIZE if you wear 7 light pieces) EVERYONE gets that shield.

The only difference is that sorcs can stack two shields for about four seconds. Sort of like dodge roll, except that it does not prevent poisons, debuff effects, roots, or CC's (which dodge roll does in many cases).

Getting rid of 'evil stacking' would be like preventing magblades from cloaking when using a shield. Or preventing mag Templars from healing when using a shield. That's ridiculous, as would a stacking nerf.

Seraphayel · March 2017

I think it's pretty funny to compare MagSorc to MagBlade. Both require different “levels of skill“, in PvE and in PvP. MagBlade is never “easy going“, they need to work for their damage. MagSorc in PvE is super easy because they've got one of the best toolkits of all classes paired with incredibly strong skills. Just compare Liquid Lightning to Twisting Path. In PvP it's not that different, Sorc might require a pretty high skill cap as well but it's still easier to fight enemies as a Sorc than as a MagBlade. You don't have Curse, you don't have Frags, you don't have the class ward, you don't have Streak, you don't have a third bar as a MagBlade. The difference between what a good Sorc and what a good NB can achieve is astounding. Not even the best MagBlade player could reach the best MagSorc just because of how imbalanced some (Sorc) skills are. There is a reason why MagSorc is and was the top spec in the entire game. “Medium“ skill cap resulting in maximum output.

Vahrokh · March 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

5) I am sorry some feel it's hard to dodge and click 8 buttons instead of five. No, it's not. Buy a decent mouse so you roll, block and interrupt with your right hand and have the left hand free to do something more. I am using a Sensei mouse but there are certainly hundreds that could do.

This is a terrible argument. You cannot design a game where a player has to buy a specific mouse to play it right, lol. It will discourage players from buying the game. That's how your game will fail terribly.

Not hard to reach button number 8 while using WASD to move around constantly? Try it yourself. Rebind all your skills to 6, 7, 8, 9, 0 instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Then try some PvP. Good luck.

I don't use WASD, I use mouse buttons. I have replicated the standard PvP gaming setup used by other MMOs. I only use W - and rarely at that. Dodge, roll, block, interrupt, run all is done with mouse with minimal effort and best precision.

If you want to be competitive at PvP you are better to exploit any advantage, and a gaming mouse (read it again: GAMING mouse, that is what gamers buy) is a sizable advantage.

I also have a gaming pad and more. I am going to do my due diligence to win, if you can't afford some $20 mouse then you should not even spend monthly money in a game.

Publius_Scipio · March 2017

He ^ uses this.

Ocelot9x · March 2017

Agree with the op,but don't say it loud,60% of people here are msorc with l2p issues. I gave up posting long ago because it's pointless arguing

cpuScientist · March 2017

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I see repeated the same wrong arguments:

1) Sorcs are strong in PvP so it's just fine to gimp them (again!) back to useless for PvE by some nuclear carpet bombing nerf.
2) Sorcs pets are too strong
3) Class XXXX is not taken in trials because is not as strong as Sorcs
4) Sorcs can do high DPS from range, melee should.
5) Playing five buttons is what they do on DOTA hence it's skillful gameplay.
6) Shield stacking makes Sorcs overpowered, NERF Sorcs.

1) Sorcs used to be the garbage of ESO for years. Not even their trials set(s) were worth anything, I have deconstructed more Aether gear than picked Craglorn metals.
No, sorry. Sorcs endured about 2.5 years of being the bottom feeder, it's time the others taste it for a while.
In little time, Wardens will come anyway and - having played similar classes for a decade - I already know they will make sorcs (and everybody else) look like they are little insects.

2) Sorcs pets are the class defining trait. For years, they used to be so useless and bad, they used to be employed just to explode. Even the "tank" pet, was dying to 1-2 regular quest NPCs and that's it. Now they finally do something worthwhile and you want them made crap again.

Yes, Volatile Familiar is too strong in PvE, with such big AoE damage and could use a nerf imo.
The Matriarch is barely viable, in the sense it still dies like no tomorrow, so it's fine. I even morphed her in the no heal, DPS only version and her DPS is still no match to the Volatile familiar and dies easily.
The Clanfear now does its job. Clanfear is strong when the one set for doing so is employed, but that set is not the DPS records breaker, nobody does more than 31k DPS with that (even spamming potions), so it's not trials worthy.

3) Sorcs have spent YEARS being least wanted in trials. In 2014 and 2015 the competitive guilds did not accept sorcs at trials at all and that's it.
This attitude is not unique to ESO playerbase, either. In SWTOR, in 2014 my Shadow would NEVER be taken to an Operation (Operations are what ESO calls "Trials"), neither as DPS nor a offtank. Today my SWTOR Sorc would NEVER be taken as DPS, not even in 4 men instances! Only heals.
Let's not even talk about WoW, where for years I could not join any Raid nor Arenas as Druid if not for pure healing.

Considering I have suffered years being not accepted class in ESO and years in SWTOR and years in WoW, it really stinks to me seeing the same arguments again and again.
Needless to say, I quit the various games mentioned above for years too. They are too incompetent to make my classes viable? I don't pay them. Period. Like me, tens of thousand others. Both SWTOR and ESO were forced to become F2P due to mass defections after their endless screwups with classes balance.

What we have to aim to, is to make everyone welcome to trials, not to have class "vendettas" that only alienate players.

4) This is only apparently a good point. It really makes sense, expecially on a RPG point of view. However, we live in a MMO, where competitive guilds don't have ANY consideration about the range you play from. If you do subpar DPS you sit out and that's it, no matter if you are ranged or melee. DPS check bosses don't care if you are ranged. Do less DPS and they go enrage and you wipe. That's it.

In order to make ranged DPS lower damage but still accepted, then you must do like WoW did 10+ years ago: create encounters where melee is downright impossible or so difficult that guilds will take ranged DPS.

This had two downsides: melee players complained and rioted until Blizzard removed these artificial "barriers" and then ranged DPS immediately became pointless with their low damage.
Even before that, ranged DPS players had to sit out for 3 hours and then be allowed to join just for the *1* special, ranged friendly encounter and then they'd be told to leave again and let melee DPS back in.

Needless to say, this sucks. Plus bosses would drop certain "mage" / hunter etc. gear pieces only at certain melee friendly bosses, so ranged DPS were double screwed: unable to compete, unable to get better gear to compete.

End result: everyone have to be equal DPS, otherwise good luck getting a spot.

5) I am sorry some feel it's hard to dodge and click 8 buttons instead of five. No, it's not. Buy a decent mouse so you roll, block and interrupt with your right hand and have the left hand free to do something more. I am using a Sensei mouse but there are certainly hundreds that could do.

6) Shield stacking should not exist, period. I think this wicked mechanic has been born exactly like light / med weaving: from a game BUG that ZoS made into a feature. But while I can see weaving as very fair - everyone can do it - stacking should just be removed. ZoS thinks 2 shields are "needed", I and many others don't.

I'd rather see stacking go than see PvE DPS be gutted again. I do NOT CARE to have zillion of shielding when I am called to be pure DPS in a trial. I DO care if they make me unviable again just to let a DPS class be PvP tanky.

To be clear, I do not want to see my sorc gutted at all. I honestly think they are in a great spot PvP once they fix streak, but that's a big not a feature. And in PvE I think they are overperforming. Ranged shouldn't out DPS melee to such an extent. Many trials need range and it's magBlade and magSorc that fit that role. So they are wanted. The haunting curse buff made them clearly better than magblades. And that's alright, and pets cannot be used in every fight so that too is alright.

They were already pretty much objectively better than Magblades to begin with. Now it's practically impossible to justify bringing a Magblade when a MagSorcerer exists. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting your post, but why is that alright? Why is it alright when one class can outright replace the need for another? Magplars and MagDKs both fill the role of melee DPS, but one doesn't remove the reason for the other to exist. Why is it okay for MagSorcerers to do that to Magblades?

Well honestly alot of trials rather you bring a magDK over a magplar. But I meant that it's ok if one spec is slightly higher than the other. Yes magblade could very much use a buff. Just sticking to OP comment on sorcs. Not talking about magblade...

cpuScientist · March 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What exactly is “hard“ when it comes to playing a Sorc? Compared to a Nightblade, Sorc is super easy and it doesn't matter if Stamina or Magicka. And I am not talking about one shot ganker Nightblades but the ones that rely on rotations / other things than stacking buffs and onehitting players.

Sorc is super easy from start to finish.

Ummm nope. Magsorc is a case of high skill floor high skill ceiling. An average player cannot burst people down while maintaining shields.
Yes hardest to play is magblade, no argument in that.
Yes stamsorc is case of low skill floor but powerful af, no argument in that.

Again, I don't see it. Why is Magsorc harder than MagDK or Magblade in that case? They've still got the best tools in burning down somebody. And I'd say both MagDKs and Magblades are much more squishy than Magsorcs. I mean Crystal Frag (+Curse) is such an easy tool to burst somebody down and CC them as well. Burst somebody down as MagDK? Yeah well... Sorc is just pretty easy compared to every other class in ESO except Beamplars.

Again, average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They either stack wards nonstop and deal 0 damage, or they 1vX everyone, that's magsorc for you, high skill ceiling high skill floor.
Timing curse + frag is easy for skilled players, but for average players, it's not, especially with all the required animation cancelling to do the combo quickly. They will most likely mess up their burst combo and the opponent doesn't die. Magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player.

MagDK is not about burst, it's all about keeping the pressure on the opponent. It's a completely different playstyle.

Yes, average players can't. Neither an average Sorc nor an average DK. I mean, at least Sorcs have a class based ward or hard hitting insta with burst. DKs and NBs don't. An average Sorc still gets more out of the class than an average DK or NB, especially for Magicka builds. That's my point.

As I said, it's case of high skill floor. It doesn't matter if you have ward and frag if you cannot utilize them. The point is, it's harder to be a good magsorc than to be a good stamDK for example. Yes, becoming a good magsorc is easier than becoming a good magblade for sure, magblade is the hardest class to play, highest skill floor, hands down. Maybe it's easier to be a good magsorc than to be a good magdk for some people (I still perform better with magdk, so let's say they are equally hard to master) but even if magdk is harder to play, that leaves stamsorc, stamdk, stamblade, stamplar, magplar left.

My point remains, magsorc is a case of high skill ceiling high skill floor. If you do well with it, you will 1vX every average player in the game. If you are just average, like the majority of the playerbase, you are not going to get anything out of a magsorc. It's easier to be decent at other classes, like stamdk, stamsorc, magplar etc than to be decent at magsorc.

Lol it's not easier than stamDK or any stam for that matter. In PvP magSorc is easy. It's an easy class, that's good for beginners. It's hard to master I'll say that. But so is any class. I'd say it's harder to 1vX on a magSorc than it is on stam classes, (even that though...)

Again, magsorc is easy for you? Congratulation, you are a skilled player. Average players cannot burst people down while maintaining wards. They will most likely mess up the curse + frag combo timing and nothing dies. What's good of a magsorc when you cannot time your execute?
As I said, high skill floor.

Lololololol. Listen and get that magSorc is your class. And everyone wants to feel like an underdog. But c'mon be real, magSorc is meant for the average player. Now it does take skill to 1vX and any of the like on a magSorc but anyone can pick up a magSorc and do alright.

Now for this average player routine you got going.

Let's say we take an average player on a sorc and an average player on a StamDK. The sorc wins. He mine camps and the "average" player on stamDK doesn't know how to counter this. He just wants to wrecking blow spam like "average" players do, and will eat mines like crazy.

lololol. Firstly, magsorc is not my main. I main stamplar and stamdk. As I am average (or slightly below average), I cannot get the burst combo (curse+frag) right most of the time, especially with all the clunky animation cancelling required to burst people quick, and what's the point of being magsorc if you cannot utilize the burst combo? For other classes, you can keep spamming your spammable and occasionally heal until the enemy is low, then you execute. You cannot spam Force pulse until the enemy is low, Force Pulse is not good at keeping the pressure, especially when you have to keep your wards on (or you will die), the only way for you to kill someone is to time your combo, which is hard for average players.

Secondly, you seriously don't get the point at all lololol. Listen, ok I will spell it out for you: the point is that: It is harder to become an average magsorc than to become an average stamdk. High skill floor, get it?

I get what you're saying, it's just wrong. Not to be rude but if you are unable to click curse then force pulse till frag procs.... I don't know what to say. And again what will that average stamDK spamming wrecking blow do to mines.

It's very easy. For low and high tier players. Maybe learn to count in your head or something so you can get the shield and curse down. If you fail at the first curse combi reshield then try again.

But go on with your wrecking blow running into mines.

cpuScientist · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Mashille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

It's not a crutch any more than cloaking, breath of life, or wings/talons/fossil are. Shields (and stacking) is THE survival mechanic for sorcerers, and without it the class will suck period.

That is a Major Problem IMO. Classes should not have this whole situation of 'If X class loses X ability they will be trash' that's just flat out bad design. Classes shouldn't have to rely on 1 skill in order to be competitive.

I'm not hating on any classes here, just the game design.

That's the whole 'class diversity' thing. Every class is supposed to have something unique about it to protect themselves.

In this case, Sorcs get a shield. It's not ANY better than the 'dampen' morph of the light armor shield (which is even same SIZE if you wear 7 light pieces) EVERYONE gets that shield.

The only difference is that sorcs can stack two shields for about four seconds. Sort of like dodge roll, except that it does not prevent poisons, debuff effects, roots, or CC's (which dodge roll does in many cases).

Getting rid of 'evil stacking' would be like preventing magblades from cloaking when using a shield. Or preventing mag Templars from healing when using a shield. That's ridiculous, as would a stacking nerf.

No silly goose. Dampen is not as strong, remember the tool tip for harden ward is 33% stronger aswell as costing alot less.

Anti_Virus · March 2017

I mentioned something like this in another thread but the legion of sorc lobbyist viciously attacked my opinion and claimed that I wanted their class nerfed....

I knew this would cause problems mSorc was a solid class that didn't need any improvements, now they are the go to class for pve dps great damage awesome survivability which allows them to ignore machanics like standing in red AoEs and they have ranged advantage.

With the recent destruction staff buffs I don't think it should count as two pieces now and I hope next patch Zos can bring up stamina melee builds to be viable in pve dps.

cpuScientist · March 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

I mentioned something like this in another thread but the legion of sorc lobbyist viciously attacked my opinion and claimed that I wanted their class nerfed....

I knew this would cause problems mSorc was a solid class that didn't need any improvements, now they are the go to class for pve dps great damage awesome survivability which allows them to ignore machanics like standing in red AoEs and they have ranged advantage.

With the recent destruction staff buffs I don't think it should count as two pieces now and I hope next patch Zos can bring up stamina melee builds to be viable in pve dps.

I honestly felt they were in a balanced spot last patch. I felt all DPS in endgame for the most part was balanced. With stamblade magblade and StamPlar needing a little love. Haunting is a big buff, but then they also buffed pets. It's fine leave them in this place it's a great place, you can pet sorc or weave sorc. But other classes need buffs now. Stam needs a buff all around. It's silly that a ranged safe class is best DPS.

Izaki · March 2017

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Everyone I know with VMA flawless conqueror did it with a mag-sorc. Must be a big coincidence.

Any ranged dps build can easily do flawless conqueror.

Any stamina melee build with VO in 20 runs can learn how to do 550k points.

HAHA yeah right!

Flawless Conqueror used to be hard. On everything but Mag Sorc and Mag NB. So yeah, he is right when he's saying that any ranged class can easily get Flawless with practice.

And he's more than right in saying that stamina builds are much better in vMA and much easier to get Flawless on if you know what you're doing and have proper gear (20 runs to reach 550k on a stamina build seems about right if you're starting at 0 btw).

cpuScientist · March 2017

MagSorc is just a great class for beginners.

My first class was a stamDK and he did great however being an althoholic I decided I wanted one of everything. And I got my magSorc to vet 3 and was doing City of ash with pals we had been unable together past the ash Titan the previous night, I was on my stamDK. This time I tried the magSorc, and all my friends died in the first minute or so, I then solo killed it. We were all in shock. Then the engine guardian we never could beat it, them BAM! Solo killed it too. Started saving the day in every dungeon we were all bad at the time though. Everything we couldn't do as a team, I was soloing. Wondered if I had gotten 10 times better or if it was the class. Spoiler it was completely the class at the time. BUT THATS OK!!! MagSorc is the solo class. Now sure I can pull of crap like that on all my toons. But it's never as easy as it is on me sorc.

Best for vma completion's, while some stam get higher scores it's not easier on those classes, it's just that the players have now learned the arena and the spawns good enough that they can work around the pitfalls of stam. But for first completion's who would tell a player no don't use your magSorc, your stamBlade is easier???

MagSorc is easy to do well with that's just how the class is. In PvP it's easy to do well with. In PvE it's easy to do well with. The class is not a high skill cap class to get into. And in PvE it's currently the strongest class. I don't think it's the strongest setup to use in PvP, but it's one of the more forgiving. But it does take skill in PvP to 1vX with them, and the difference between an average sorc and a FANTASTIC sorc is huge.

I'm not saying if you use sorc you have no skill. I'm just saying it's a forgiving class for beginners and a fun class for "skilled" players to use. I love the class. And when I have to get super serious tryhard I always bust mine out.

cpuScientist · March 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

Everyone I know with VMA flawless conqueror did it with a mag-sorc. Must be a big coincidence.

Any ranged dps build can easily do flawless conqueror.

Any stamina melee build with VO in 20 runs can learn how to do 550k points.

HAHA yeah right!

Flawless Conqueror used to be hard. On everything but Mag Sorc and Mag NB. So yeah, he is right when he's saying that any ranged class can easily get Flawless with practice.

And he's more than right in saying that stamina builds are much better in vMA and much easier to get Flawless on if you know what you're doing and have proper gear (20 runs to reach 550k on a stamina build seems about right if you're starting at 0 btw).

Know what you're doing is the key point there. Stamina is better for score runs after you have learned the arena very well.