Seadle wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Seadle wrote: »

CP is not equivocal to skill, so why bar it behind cp600?

No, it's not equivalent at all to skill, but it is a set of objective numerical values to balance the difficulty level around.

You're right, though, CPs are accumulated just by playing any content and aren't necessarily indicative of an individual's skill or understanding of game mechanics.

So, since CP are just gained by doing ANYTHING having something that is barred behind being max CP is counterproductive. This would just cause people who are already cp600 and say have no idea how to actually do difficult PvE content just make the dungeons that are already difficult for people who can't DPS hard enough or do simple mechanics, much, much harder.

Imo it's a bad idea and would overlook the vast majority of players who do not have the time to achieve cp600 or the players that are just not cp600. It might give them something to look to, but then what do they have to look forward to? There should just be a no CP option for dungeons, or as stated above - do the dungeons naked and solo.

No issue with an harder level if its easy to implement, by simply adding more health to enemies while they do more damage.
Adding new mechanics would be too much work outside of stuff like add spawns who is easy to adjust.

The dungeons already turn to hardmode when you PuG vet dungeons with people who don't know what they're doing and refuse to accept any type of help.

Seadle wrote: »

CP is not equivocal to skill, so why bar it behind cp600?

Actually one reason to do that would be so cp 50 players have some idea that they probably shouldn't choose that for their first dungeon run ever. Because you know that otherwise they will lol. I agree cp=/= being good, but at least it'd stop a poor newbie cp 50 from confidently choosing that setting because "omg I can solo all public dungeons, how bad can it be" and then coming to forums to ask for nerfs.

It'd be nice if we could have a higher tier of difficulty. I actually greatly like some of the mechanics already in game, like I think crypt of hearts 2 is amazing, and I like city of ash 2 as well(besides the timesink part), but they're just laughably easy now. I remember when you had to time your movements on last coh 2 boss because if you stayed in his crystals aoe for more than 0.5 second you'd get rekt pretty much. Now you can stand there full time and barely even notice. I would like those times back, in a way that wouldn't affect current difficulty levels too.

It wouldn't solve the universal power creep issue, it'd simply be a bandaid to make some of the "l33t" players happy and I don't see what's wrong with that. It would have to have some rewards because otherwise it just doesn't make sense. Yes it would be for fun, but it's more fun if you feel rewarded for your efforts, even if your rewards come down to pixels - but so do your efforts, let's be honest A gold gear off every boss would be wayyyy overkill, maybe a chance of gold loot on last boss or something. Or some set(s) only dropping there though if they turned out to be bis it would cause issues again.

Turelus wrote: »

I would be fine with a en elite, nightmare or whatever you want it to be called dungeon mode but only if they don't tie anything different gear/achievements/rewards behind it.

Otherwise you're not making more content for the true end game players to enjoy, but just another tier of content progression everyone has to take part in.

...why? Why does "everyone have to take part in it"? Even if it does drop BiS sets, why would someone whose goal is not running challenging content at the utmost level of difficulty have to do it? Why do people always feel outraged if there's gear that's 5% better than the one accessible otherwise locked behind a challenging content? Most interesting, why is it always people who keep saying they "don't minimax and aren't interested in that" but they feel an ultimate need to be able to access ALL THE GEAR? Only way it'd have merit would be if it was seriously gameplay changing stuff there. Idk Ring of Power Negate All Fall Damage or Sword of Unaggressive Mobs or something. But only things that get "locked" behind a challenge are pieces of arguably BiS gear that let you get say 10% more dps than you could using alternatives available otherwise. Which in turn enables you to complete challenging content easier and have fun feeling yourself improve and become stronger. Why does it matter if you aren't interested in the challenging content in the first place?

You want extra difficulty ? Try solo-ing some of the group dungeons. If you can do it on normal - try on vetern.
If you can do it on veteran.... then try solo-ing normal trail...
...and if by some miracle you will succed... try solo-ing vet trail....

notimetocare wrote: »

No. If you want a challenge mode? I gues, but more loot? Auto gold? No way.

Why not just try it with white, non-set gear? There, instant challenge with no extra code

Players shouldn't have to nerf their gear to keep content from being easy, every time I see these suggestions it's just as ridiculous as the last time.

I'd support it, this game needs hard content. Everything we have no is too easy, there should be content for the casuals to do but we should also get harder stuff that gives better gear.

Magdalina wrote: »

Seadle wrote: »

CP is not equivocal to skill, so why bar it behind cp600?

Actually one reason to do that would be so cp 50 players have some idea that they probably shouldn't choose that for their first dungeon run ever. Because you know that otherwise they will lol. I agree cp=/= being good, but at least it'd stop a poor newbie cp 50 from confidently choosing that setting because "omg I can solo all public dungeons, how bad can it be" and then coming to forums to ask for nerfs.

It'd be nice if we could have a higher tier of difficulty. I actually greatly like some of the mechanics already in game, like I think crypt of hearts 2 is amazing, and I like city of ash 2 as well(besides the timesink part), but they're just laughably easy now. I remember when you had to time your movements on last coh 2 boss because if you stayed in his crystals aoe for more than 0.5 second you'd get rekt pretty much. Now you can stand there full time and barely even notice. I would like those times back, in a way that wouldn't affect current difficulty levels too.

It wouldn't solve the universal power creep issue, it'd simply be a bandaid to make some of the "l33t" players happy and I don't see what's wrong with that. It would have to have some rewards because otherwise it just doesn't make sense. Yes it would be for fun, but it's more fun if you feel rewarded for your efforts, even if your rewards come down to pixels - but so do your efforts, let's be honest A gold gear off every boss would be wayyyy overkill, maybe a chance of gold loot on last boss or something. Or some set(s) only dropping there though if they turned out to be bis it would cause issues again.

Turelus wrote: »

I would be fine with a en elite, nightmare or whatever you want it to be called dungeon mode but only if they don't tie anything different gear/achievements/rewards behind it.

Otherwise you're not making more content for the true end game players to enjoy, but just another tier of content progression everyone has to take part in.

...why? Why does "everyone have to take part in it"? Even if it does drop BiS sets, why would someone whose goal is not running challenging content at the utmost level of difficulty have to do it? Why do people always feel outraged if there's gear that's 5% better than the one accessible otherwise locked behind a challenging content? Most interesting, why is it always people who keep saying they "don't minimax and aren't interested in that" but they feel an ultimate need to be able to access ALL THE GEAR? Only way it'd have merit would be if it was seriously gameplay changing stuff there. Idk Ring of Power Negate All Fall Damage or Sword of Unaggressive Mobs or something. But only things that get "locked" behind a challenge are pieces of arguably BiS gear that let you get say 10% more dps than you could using alternatives available otherwise. Which in turn enables you to complete challenging content easier and have fun feeling yourself improve and become stronger. Why does it matter if you aren't interested in the challenging content in the first place?

Progression? Because its there? Why did the chicken cross the road? LoL

cjthibs wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Regardless, if there is a 3rd tier of difficulty for people who have learned the game mechanics to that degree, geared up to the max, and have utterly smashed the rest of the PvE content, they're going to want something to do on their non-Trial nights that offers them a challenge and a sense of progress. And, they're going to want to use the CPs that they've earned to do it (why have the CP system if the highest tier of difficulty involves not using CPs?).

What is the point of taking CP out of the equation?
CP's are the reason it's so easy in the first place.

Someone else said, "they shouldn't have a difficulty balanced around CP600, instead there should be a 'No CP' option for dungeons".

I say there should be a difficulty level for the dungeons balanced around CP600.

I don't think CPs should be taken out of the equation.

There are already 5 levels of Dungeons

Normal I
Normal II
Vet I
Vet II
Hardmode

Each level increases stats or introduces new mechanics. Is it enough of a challenge for everyone? Well, I can most do Vet Dungeons in a good cohesive group, but the ones in Shadowfen that came out with the DLC at Vet? No, not at all. Other's can.

The other way to get a challenge is gear. We all know how to build a character for max DPS, that's easy. Just do the math. It also makes the game quite easy. So, if that is your complaint, then try something out of the box, build a character that gives you a challenge. Use sub optimal gear, make a hybrid, play with partial sets, play with no sets. Nothing says you have to max out your character, and not maxing out your character will give you all the challenge you may be looking for.

You can also remove some, most or all CPs. Again, nothing says you have to use them all.

However, there is challenge for a fully developed character, soloing group content.

If you can't find adequate challenge with the methods I outlined above then go do PvP. That will humble you.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

everything else in the game can be pugged without a mic on console( have done it before) plz give the 600cp players some fun difficult content with actual rewards

HA! right.... what "pugs" are you joining?
Most pug groups can hardly beat the "easy" vet dungeons... forget reading the scroll...

if you and the same few friends keep playing these dungeons... of course they will be easy eventually. But don't lie to people about how easy SotH dungeons on hard mode are in a random pug group. Blatant lie. WGT and ICP vet hard mode are still next to impossible with a pug group and those have been out for quite a while now.

I dont have time to lie on the internet about a video game im not a troll.

I have pugged every dungeon in the game including cos/rom/wgt/prison and completed them all what i will say is i dont pug those 4 anymore the time and fails and asking friends 2 save my pug group is real. However just like im 600cp and pugging other 600cp players pug 2 and ive gotten lucky and got 3 600cp players 2 pug with.

Jitterbug wrote: »

No CP Vet Dungeons

This could be a much easier solution i would like this also

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Why?

Zenimax makes dungeons for the more casual crowd, and arenas/trials for the more harddcore players. And we get rewarded for them. Cool skins/titles so the casuals can recognize us, cool gear, cool weapons to help us do harder content a little easier. It's not a bad model, it's really not.

You can solo a great deal of the veteran dungeons, or farm vma. Do a vdsa run if you're bored. It might not be difficult fkr you but 95% of the playerbase will never beat those things. End game pve is all about who can do what better.

How does ADDiNG a higher difficulty hurt the casual crowd? Does adding new trails stop them from doing anything? A 3rd difficulty only effects people who play on it.
Just like if they nerf normal dungeons i wont be affected cause i dont do those unless im farming?


Why do people not want people who grind 4 good gear and have 600cp to play with their friends who also grinded? Dungeons ARE fun i like doing them let me put this gear i golded out to the test thats all im asking for everyone keeps telling me 2 take off my gear... Why turn it gold in the 1st place?

Everstorm wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Regardless, if there is a 3rd tier of difficulty for people who have learned the game mechanics to that degree, geared up to the max, and have utterly smashed the rest of the PvE content, they're going to want something to do on their non-Trial nights that offers them a challenge and a sense of progress. And, they're going to want to use the CPs that they've earned to do it (why have the CP system if the highest tier of difficulty involves not using CPs?).

What is the point of taking CP out of the equation?
CP's are the reason it's so easy in the first place.

Because characterprogression is THE staple of games like these.

I don't play this game because I'm obsessed with progression.
I play it because of the friends I have here most of all. Secondly to play content with said friends. (Dungeons, PvP, random questing, Raids (infrequently.)

I'd guess that most people aren't obsessed with how many points they have either, they want to have fun playing the game. Not spreadsheet warrioring.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There are already 5 levels of Dungeons

Normal I
Normal II
Vet I
Vet II
Hardmode

Each level increases stats or introduces new mechanics. Is it enough of a challenge for everyone? Well, I can most do Vet Dungeons in a good cohesive group, but the ones in Shadowfen that came out with the DLC at Vet? No, not at all. Other's can.

The other way to get a challenge is gear. We all know how to build a character for max DPS, that's easy. Just do the math. It also makes the game quite easy. So, if that is your complaint, then try something out of the box, build a character that gives you a challenge. Use sub optimal gear, make a hybrid, play with partial sets, play with no sets. Nothing says you have to max out your character, and not maxing out your character will give you all the challenge you may be looking for.

You can also remove some, most or all CPs. Again, nothing says you have to use them all.

However, there is challenge for a fully developed character, soloing group content.

If you can't find adequate challenge with the methods I outlined above then go do PvP. That will humble you.

Normal 1? 2? Vet 1?2?

Do u mean dungeons?

This is wrong theirs 3 levels of difficulty Normal-Vet-Hm

Normal 1 and 2 is because zenimax use 2 contiune the story of a dungeon if you play coa 1 the main npc is the same in coa 2 and your rescuing his wife coa2 on normal is just as easy (numerically hp values on mobs) as coa1 on normal.

Also i do pvp.

Im not being a elitist im not trying to come off as some grade A player im actual not that great dps wise on the target dummy. But even i realize how easy this game is and anytime 4 600cp players group up we can do are taxes while playing this game.

kylewwefan wrote: »

I have hard enough times getting through vet dungeons with random players that aren't ready for it. I see very little need for harder ones. If you can't find challenging enough content for your team, make your own. White gear, no jewelry, no CP etc.

In all my experiences pugging, I've never had want of harder content. It's usually quite refreshing to finish a dungeon quick and easy.

Why do people keep saying this? Why would ANYONE EVER play a game get new gear and delete it? Why would any1 want to weaken themselves to have a harder time not cool.

There are a lot of people on these forums that don't understand that there should be scaled content as you progress in the game and it's baffling.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Normal 1? 2? Vet 1?2?

Do u mean dungeons?

This is wrong theirs 3 levels of difficulty Normal-Vet-Hm

The Mechanics are different in the Normal II as they are the old Vet Version with mobs that have lower stats. It may be subtle to a super duper player such as your self, but they are there. Vet II dungeons are harder than Vet I too, mostly in terms of more stats, but some mechanics added. I am surprised you did not notice this.

As to gimping yourself. Its called building a character to give you the experience you want.

Do you have any videos of you pugging Veteran City of Shadows or Ruins of Mazzatun. Or ICP or West Gold Tower on a Vet Pug. I still find it hard to believe that anyone can pug those.

Again, your not feeling challenged by PvE, then go do PvP.