1vxing and zerging

Unfadingsilence · March 2017

So I know that A LOT of ppl have complained about zergs in pvp and how they are a solo playing and it is very hard to 1vx or that 1vx is dead. So my suggestion is this let's say you are in a group solo-5 ppl and you come in contact with a much larger group let's say 15-25+ would you like it if there was going to be a cost to fighting the smaller group to give them a fighting chance let's say less stats and or less damage or even giving your self and group better stats? BUT even if your in a smaller group but you are in an area where your faction is located then they don't lose anything. That way if you feel the need to run solo or small group play there is a fighting chance to 1vx but at the same time if you like being in a big group then you can fight other large groups with no consequences

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

Unfadingsilence · March 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

Definitely not saying I hate zergs I'm just saying what about the players that don't like to zergs what if they like the skill behind taking on 1v2 1v3 1v4 and so on but when 15+ ppl run after 1 person then what do you do then? Sit back and die? To me there is no fun in that

FloppyTouch · March 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself but zerging is boreing af and small scale is a lot of fun taking on large groups with 2-4 men is an amazing feeling. 24+ people spamming AoEs while 2-4 healers heal running through another groups doing the same is imo not fun or challenging.

Yes zergs win campaigns but who cares small scale pvpers help you way more then you know. We can hold off a group or wipe them a few times while ur Zerg Pvdoors to get points.

Vapirko · March 2017

I'm not a great pvp player by any stretch, but zergs are whatever and everyone does it at some point. If you really don't like them you can avoid fairly easily most of the time. It's war, wars have armys. And I've held a keep with a small number of people against a Zerg it's possible. I've also seen a small number of people wipe a bigger group. But not small groups should not be buffed against bigger groups.

Magdalina · March 2017

Wtb inverted aoe caps. Because currently a zerg gets additional advantage to fighting a smaller team/single person in addition to the sheer numbers which doesn't even make sense. I mean if 50 people are trying to roflstomp 1, you'd think they don't need any extra advantage to help with that...

Egonieser · March 2017

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

Definitely not saying I hate zergs I'm just saying what about the players that don't like to zergs what if they like the skill behind taking on 1v2 1v3 1v4 and so on but when 15+ ppl run after 1 person then what do you do then? Sit back and die? To me there is no fun in that

Then just avoid major battles? Pick a emptier campaign? How do you think these major streamers like Sypher and Fengrush do their 1 vs X? They don't go to Trueflame zergs and unleash mighty solo-wrath upon 100 people on their own, no. In fact i know Fengrush completely avoids Trueflame for this exact reason as He himself said - there's no point as the lag and zergs make it impossible to do it.
They play in small campaigns like Haderus where the group sizes are manageable and they can pick their fights, evaluate whether or not they can win them and only then jump in the fray.

This is a AvA game afterall, massive battles and siege warfare is the core concept of it, not solo or 1 vs X. That's what upcoming battlegrounds with Morrowind will be for.

Unfadingsilence · March 2017

Egonieser wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

Definitely not saying I hate zergs I'm just saying what about the players that don't like to zergs what if they like the skill behind taking on 1v2 1v3 1v4 and so on but when 15+ ppl run after 1 person then what do you do then? Sit back and die? To me there is no fun in that

Then just avoid major battles? Pick a emptier campaign? How do you think these major streamers like Sypher and Fengrush do their 1 vs X? They don't go to Trueflame zergs and unleash mighty solo-wrath upon 100 people on their own, no. In fact i know Fengrush completely avoids Trueflame for this exact reason as He himself said - there's no point as the lag and zergs make it impossible to do it.
They play in small campaigns like Haderus where the group sizes are manageable and they can pick their fights, evaluate whether or not they can win them and only then jump in the fray.

This is a AvA game afterall, massive battles and siege warfare is the core concept of it, not solo or 1 vs X. That's what upcoming battlegrounds with Morrowind will be for.

I understand where you are coming from but I play on Xbox na and the empty servers are just that empty and even if there are ppl in them they will call a zergs for 1 person so 1v15 or 1v25+ not going to be a fun day in there and even in the full servers it does not matter how far away from a battle if that person is in a zerg and you kill them there's a really good chance there group will go after 1 person even tho they might tell there group they where fighting a zerg them self

Unfadingsilence · March 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

I'm not a great pvp player by any stretch, but zergs are whatever and everyone does it at some point. If you really don't like them you can avoid fairly easily most of the time. It's war, wars have armys. And I've held a keep with a small number of people against a Zerg it's possible. I've also seen a small number of people wipe a bigger group. But not small groups should not be buffed against bigger groups.

So if you where in a group with 5 ppl and 30+ rolled up on you then you would be fine without having a little buff to help you out?

Riga_Mortis · March 2017

This game at launch was advertised as having large scale AvAvA pvp, and it always should retain that large scale siege gameplay. It baffles me to the point I wonder do these guys play battlefield 32v32 and then moan that theyre getting zerged at point C and complain wheres the small scale 6v6 mode.

Battlegrounds are just a few months away and Im hoping these I hate zergs complaints die out, because it should take an army to siege a castle and hold it.
Hopefully everyone will enjoy the different pvp modes of large and small scale pvp with the introduction of battlegrounds.

sha-ext · March 2017

Game was designed to have large scale battles with larger groups running around (just look at the keeps, choke points and such). It is pointless complaining about zergs, imo.
You can still do very well with smaller groups, just have to pick your fights

Egonieser · March 2017

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

Definitely not saying I hate zergs I'm just saying what about the players that don't like to zergs what if they like the skill behind taking on 1v2 1v3 1v4 and so on but when 15+ ppl run after 1 person then what do you do then? Sit back and die? To me there is no fun in that

Then just avoid major battles? Pick a emptier campaign? How do you think these major streamers like Sypher and Fengrush do their 1 vs X? They don't go to Trueflame zergs and unleash mighty solo-wrath upon 100 people on their own, no. In fact i know Fengrush completely avoids Trueflame for this exact reason as He himself said - there's no point as the lag and zergs make it impossible to do it.
They play in small campaigns like Haderus where the group sizes are manageable and they can pick their fights, evaluate whether or not they can win them and only then jump in the fray.

This is a AvA game afterall, massive battles and siege warfare is the core concept of it, not solo or 1 vs X. That's what upcoming battlegrounds with Morrowind will be for.

I understand where you are coming from but I play on Xbox na and the empty servers are just that empty and even if there are ppl in them they will call a zergs for 1 person so 1v15 or 1v25+ not going to be a fun day in there and even in the full servers it does not matter how far away from a battle if that person is in a zerg and you kill them there's a really good chance there group will go after 1 person even tho they might tell there group they where fighting a zerg them self

There's far too many variables to a Dynamic battle to add the things you request. It's not a scripted PvE dungeon where you can throw in certain mechanics at a whim. The amount of coding required would be quite high and it would add crippling lag to an already laggy mess as all those extra calculations would fry the servers.

Just imagine. 300 people in campaign, few large raids, one small group - server has to calculate and track it all, everyone's individual stats, sets, CP, skills, and if added the things you requested - it would have to track how many people are around everyone at any given time to apply said bonuses/debuffs, and if more people emerge in the vicinity - it would have to be recalculated for each individual all over again. It's just not possible, not without entirely remaking the system or causing tremendous lags and server bottlenecks.

It already took them well over a year to make sure skill calculations and AoE effects are done properly and affect the players and area they actually should. Something like this would be impossible, at least in this game.

Unfadingsilence · March 2017

Riga_Mortis wrote: »

This game at launch was advertised as having large scale AvAvA pvp, and it always should retain that large scale siege gameplay. It baffles me to the point I wonder do these guys play battlefield 32v32 and then moan that theyre getting zerged at point C and complain wheres the small scale 6v6 mode.

Battlegrounds are just a few months away and Im hoping these I hate zergs complaints die out, because it should take an army to siege a castle and hold it.
Hopefully everyone will enjoy the different pvp modes of large and small scale pvp with the introduction of battlegrounds.

Never said I hate zergs or anything like that and I'm definitely not trying to jump in on 20+ ppl neAR keeps or anything like that but when your in between keeps and you see 1 to 5 ppl and you try and get them to follow and fight you but when you look back you see 20+ running after you and your no where near a keep its like I wonder who cried to there group and called out a zerg for 1 person

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs. If you pushed the other alliances back to camp what we supposed to when pushing for the scroll temples? Just hang back and say go on lads it only 10 people to take it? Some of the greatest battles on earth were won by sheer numbers such as Somme and Stalingrad. Zerging wins campaigns not this small scale crap you all dream of.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself but zerging is boreing af and small scale is a lot of fun taking on large groups with 2-4 men is an amazing feeling. 24+ people spamming AoEs while 2-4 healers heal running through another groups doing the same is imo not fun or challenging.

Yes zergs win campaigns but who cares small scale pvpers help you way more then you know. We can hold off a group or wipe them a few times while ur Zerg Pvdoors to get points.

No and it is boring but it serves a purpose for people that just want to kill and hoard ap. I for one do not group up at all. I stalk the zerg and run with them hoovering up people as I go. It's the single best way to make ap as I get the biggest share of ap per kill as I'm not in a group (for instance me plus 10 people in a group get a kill. I get half the other half is divided up by the 10 in a group) same for captures I get full ticks and no sharing. Literally just hold down lit staff heavies and fossilise the destro spammers for the zergs to hoover up, drop thunderous rage at pinch points or leap into a crowd and you make 80k an hour. Small scale doesn't give me what I want and I feel entitled to farm in my own way lol.

Egonieser · March 2017

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Riga_Mortis wrote: »

This game at launch was advertised as having large scale AvAvA pvp, and it always should retain that large scale siege gameplay. It baffles me to the point I wonder do these guys play battlefield 32v32 and then moan that theyre getting zerged at point C and complain wheres the small scale 6v6 mode.

Battlegrounds are just a few months away and Im hoping these I hate zergs complaints die out, because it should take an army to siege a castle and hold it.
Hopefully everyone will enjoy the different pvp modes of large and small scale pvp with the introduction of battlegrounds.

Never said I hate zergs or anything like that and I'm definitely not trying to jump in on 20+ ppl neAR keeps or anything like that but when your in between keeps and you see 1 to 5 ppl and you try and get them to follow and fight you but when you look back you see 20+ running after you and your no where near a keep its like I wonder who cried to there group and called out a zerg for 1 person

Nobody cries - people just automatically do it because they are hungry for the AP, it's just reflexes at this point. If it's Red (or Yellow/Blue) - kill it. Doesn't matter if they are on their own, small scale, large scale, a quester or a roleplayer. If they are there, they will die. It's just the nature of the beast.

Cherryblossom · March 2017

The more I think about this, the more I'm starting to agree with a comment I saw years ago.

What we need is Character Collision, this way people cannot just stack on crown, you can't have Zergs running through groups just spamming AOE.

This would introduce strategic thinking, Tanks at front with some Pew pew, pew pew in the middle, Healers on the rear.

Actual co-ordination for certain setups.

Egonieser · March 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The more I think about this, the more I'm starting to agree with a comment I saw years ago.

What we need is Character Collision, this way people cannot just stack on crown, you can't have Zergs running through groups just spamming AOE.

This would introduce strategic thinking, Tanks at front with some Pew pew, pew pew in the middle, Healers on the rear.

Actual co-ordination for certain setups.

Yes, I actually agree with that. I hate having "Ghost" avatars you just walk right through, feels unnatural and weird.

MakoFore · March 2017

nah thats war. numbers and strategy.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs.

Simple answer - "ZERG" groups are almost unkillable for 1 - 5 people. If you are attacked by 20 + zerg you only can "try" to run, but often this also does not work...

The problem starts when "ZERG" is using destro ult.. (and other aoe attacks). It destroys everything it touches, self heals to the point where 10 coordinated fire ballistas are even not enough to stop it. Even more - a large group spamming aoe skills & ults causes incredible LAG (ping over 999).

ZOS should do something to discourage people to use such "zergs".... So they added destro ult to the game, that was supposed to force people to run in a "spread" formation (making "zerg" tactics less effective). What it did is it caused more problems, and now people are running in even more clustered formation (because there are no collision boxes in eso pvp) often is see 3 people on literately the same spot - all of the spam desto ults...

And let me tall you... if a player can do more dmg using destro ult than fire ballista..then... maybe, perhaps there is something that is... broken ?!

Olupajmibanan · March 2017

Or just wait for Morrowind.

If they made small group play a thing in Cyro, why would we (PvPers) buy Morrowind then?

If someone likes big battles he can continue playing in Cyrodiil. If someone likes small group plays he can play Battlegrounds. It's as simple as that, just be patient.

pjwb16_ESO · March 2017

How about sth like this:
The more people you are fighting the more ultimate you generate

Turelus · March 2017

I have always approached ESO like I was taught fleets in EVE Online.

If you go out solo or small gang and encounter a blob (EVE term for zergs) then it's not about getting kills but surviving, and if you bring your ship or fleet back from a blob encounter then it's a victory.

You can also make use of skirmish warfare, picking off the stragglers or hit and runs.

Sadly in ESO the mindset is everyone should be able to beat everything always, no matter class, numbers, skill etc. and if someone else should ever win, it's obviously a broken mechanic/class that needs fixing.

Surak73 · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs.

Simple answer - "ZERG" groups are almost unkillable for 1 - 5 people. If you are attacked by 20 + zerg you only can "try" to run, but often this also does not work...

And why 1vZerg should be easy in the first place? You should pick a group you are able to fight: if you can't manage a 20 players zerg, simply avoid the 20 players zerg.

And no, 20 players zerg don't jump out from nowhere, so if you get caught by a 20 players zerg while you are fighting a group of five, this is generally because you didn't study the situation properly before. Sometimes it may happen that zerg comes because you are spending too much time before killing the little group, but well, this is life.

lolo_01b16_ESO · March 2017

Surak73 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs.

Simple answer - "ZERG" groups are almost unkillable for 1 - 5 people. If you are attacked by 20 + zerg you only can "try" to run, but often this also does not work...

And why 1vZerg should be easy in the first place? You should pick a group you are able to fight: if you can't manage a 20 players zerg, simply avoid the 20 players zerg.

And no, 20 players zerg don't jump out from nowhere, so if you get caught by a 20 players zerg while you are fighting a group of five, this is generally because you didn't study the situation properly before. Sometimes it may happen that zerg comes because you are spending too much time before killing the little group, but well, this is life.

Not true. Just a small example:
Yesterday I (DC) was running around in a 4player group. Roe to Chal was blue, Alessia was red, blue zerg was running to Fare. We went to Alessia farm to catch some of the reds that went Fare aswell. At some point I was casting a woe to because I thought there was some red nb around. And indeed I found something ... 20 yellows, all stacked in sneak. I'm not sure what they did there, maybe they waited for the missing 4 players to complete their zerg. But as soon as I revealed them, I had multiple destro ultis on me, combined with some ambush spam to prevent the snare immunity from my mistform to work.

And to be honest the last point is what annoys me most about zergs. I don't mind not being able to kill them. But when I can't run away from them because snare immunity doesn't work against ambush, that's not fun.

Also bringing back some form of dynamic ulti reg would be nice aswell, to reward brave heroes who fight while outnumbered. But it's not essencial, we already can kill bigger groups by intelligent use of environment, timing ultimates and siege as long as we don't get locked down by ambush spam.

Starless06 · March 2017

OP, no. 1-5 player vs 25 are at such a decided disadvantage they should never have a chance in open combat. War is not fair nor should it made so.

Rickter · March 2017

inb4 the thread move to Alliance War

but seriously, no i dont think anything should handicap the smaller group. in real life, you dont get to choose your battles and you certainly cant expect the enemy to go easy on you. guest another campaign, try to get more players on your side, stealth past them, or use superior coordination and strategy.

but dont expect nerfs because you cant handle a larger group. thats millennial sh*t

DHale · March 2017

I have played this game three years in a couple of weeks. The only solo players I know by name. They just happen to be players I am going to fight but likely lose to. Zerg surfing is not running solo or small group. Although it's a great tactic. There are lots of people who claim they are solo or small group. They are not.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

People really need to learn to pick their battles better. The best players in the world don't YOLO into 20 people and expect to survive.

When facing impossible odds you have to take advantage of the tools available to you to retreat and pick another spot. Invisibility + speed potions are so valuable that it boggles my mind that they are not more popular.

Danksta · March 2017

There just needs to be more incentives to spread out, no need to give small groups bonus stats.

xaraan · March 2017

OK, I'm going to go into my whole angle on this I guess...

We normally play in a four man group in cyrodiil, sometimes the group gets as big as eight, but we prefer four or five people. We like finding fights where we are outnumbered, but not grossly so.

If we see a lone player or two out alone, we leave them alone or let one of our players engage them in a 1v1. If they are a zergling we know from running into them in those 24 man groups we will sometimes choose to show them no mercy and zerg them down with trample damage. (This is how I refer to getting zerged as I think the recap should just say trampled to death). But there are plenty of times when we are hitting something like a resource, outpost or keep by ourselves b/c there isn't much going on there on either side and then a ton of our alliance show up and we just walk away instead of merging into the zerg. It's just not that fun for us to play in those huge groups.

But we are strange. We also run less of the obnoxious builds than most. (For example most of the guys I run with refuse to use Destro ulti b/c it's OP, they refuse to run reactive set or use sets like Tremorscale, etc.) Personally, I'm not against them using these things, especially when we are picking on larger numbers, but I do find it admirable that they avoid gear/skills that aren't well balanced.

If we see a huge group, we will either avoid them (although it's amusing to see 20-30 people chase four people half way across a map section to zerg them down) or if we feel frosty and are in a good spot, we'll engage just to see how many we can take out before we get trampled. But often those huge fights have multiple zergs around and that also present you with lag (yes, even in the non-CP test they did) and that's the reason we most like to avoid them. I do find it sad to see huge groups go out of their way to wipe out a couple people. We've held off 2-3 times our number at resources and then had a full raid plus the guys that are already there fighting just to run off four people - again, kind of sad that they are that scared to engage without overwhelming odds. That being said, if we go into a fight at the last emp keep or grab a scroll or various other alliance war objectives, we expect to see a huge response and aren't salty when zergs roll through.

So, that's just our viewpoint on the fights.

Personally, I'd like to see a few changes to the zerg mentality from the game itself. 1. They should get rid of aoe caps. They only favor the zerg. 2. The max group size should change to 12. (This wouldn't eliminate larger groups I know, but would make it harder to coordinate and make some of the random 'type x for group' zone zergs less annoying) and I know it would help with lag in large scale battles. 3. I would drastically adjust AP earned for one sided fights to wear it would be worth almost nothing for a huge group to zerg down one player or 12 guys to take a resource, etc.

I think those three things would have a bigger effect on zergs than people think.

In addition, I also have some crazier ideas like not allowing identical ultimates to stack, so dropping five destro ults on one person wouldn't do any good. This would still give large groups the advantage of ulti-uptime, but take away some of the burst.

Granted they also need to balance the game. The glasses are not nearly balanced, despite what users of said class or skill say. There are many skills, classes and sets that need minor adjusting, nerfing, or even buffing. (there always are I guess)

Spacemonkey · March 2017

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why does everyone hate on zergs.

Simple answer - "ZERG" groups are almost unkillable for 1 - 5 people. If you are attacked by 20 + zerg you only can "try" to run, but often this also does not work...

And why 1vZerg should be easy in the first place? You should pick a group you are able to fight: if you can't manage a 20 players zerg, simply avoid the 20 players zerg.

And no, 20 players zerg don't jump out from nowhere, so if you get caught by a 20 players zerg while you are fighting a group of five, this is generally because you didn't study the situation properly before. Sometimes it may happen that zerg comes because you are spending too much time before killing the little group, but well, this is life.

Not true. Just a small example:
Yesterday I (DC) was running around in a 4player group. Roe to Chal was blue, Alessia was red, blue zerg was running to Fare. We went to Alessia farm to catch some of the reds that went Fare aswell. At some point I was casting a woe to because I thought there was some red nb around. And indeed I found something ... 20 yellows, all stacked in sneak. I'm not sure what they did there, maybe they waited for the missing 4 players to complete their zerg. But as soon as I revealed them, I had multiple destro ultis on me, combined with some ambush spam to prevent the snare immunity from my mistform to work.

And to be honest the last point is what annoys me most about zergs. I don't mind not being able to kill them. But when I can't run away from them because snare immunity doesn't work against ambush, that's not fun.

Also bringing back some form of dynamic ulti reg would be nice aswell, to reward brave heroes who fight while outnumbered. But it's not essencial, we already can kill bigger groups by intelligent use of environment, timing ultimates and siege as long as we don't get locked down by ambush spam.

Wait, so you (DC) and red are in YELLOW territory, and grabbing their keeps, and you are surprised that a yellow zerg is stealthing, waiting for the right moment to grab back their keeps???? You surprised them, they killed you. Everything here is logical. You should not have survived. You may even have somewhat ruined their plans because the combat icon will have appeared on map warning people (on top of you yourself warning your alliance) of their presence.

As previous person said, you did not have proper awareness of your situation if you are surprised by this happening and worked up about it. You are in AD territory and on top of that next to their IC entrance. There will be yellows even if they lost the keeps.