Ward/Shield durations PVE

Triddle · March 2017

They should probably double the shield size while they're at it, my sorc took health damage the other day. It instantly refilled with surge but it was frightening all the same.

Seriously though if any shield should have its duration increased, it's Bone Shield imo (not that it necessarily needs it). The HP based nature, and universal access make it a prime candidate for a 10-15 second duration. You can't do a tonne of damage while also having a large Bone Shield, since having a large bone shield implies investing heavily in health. Any other shield getting a duration buff would be unreasonable to me, because of the huge damage, huge shield with huge duration problem others have mentioned. 6 seconds is plenty for a shield that scales with your damage, if it's to be any longer, it can't also scale with damage or it's just ridiculously strong (like they used to be...)

This way, if you need to be shielded for a long time, you can throw up a bone shield, and put your other shields on top of it to absorb bulk damage.

Avran_Sylt · March 2017

Why not add in an additional effect to the Battle Spirit buff? Cause the game to reduce any shield effect to 6s left if it's above 6 seconds. This way the skills can have shields that last more than 6 seconds out of PvP, but during PvP with the Battle spirit buff applied, all shields are reduced to 6 seconds?

This may be more problematic in implementation though. It's very likely that all the battle spirit buff does at the moment is modify your healing received and damage reduction values. Checking to see if a skill is a shield skill, and then checking to see if the duration of that effect on the character is longer than 6 seconds, and reducing the effect to 6 seconds, if all that takes place server side and not client side to try and prevent cheating, that may cause more lag.

Edit: I can't remember which post it was, but someone once mentioned creating a separate skill list for PvP, that the devs can tweak to PvP issues, while , leaving the PvE skills alone.

Lieblingsjunge · March 2017

6s shields are all good. As people said: You only rly need shields in vma - vdsa & trials. And in that trial everyone uses a shield anyway. Harness op.
I honestly don't get your point. Shields are just fine as they are - and with the insane buffs to mSorc, if you can't deal with PvE on your mSorc... I suggest reading beginner guides.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This is a bit stressful for healers, too. As a healer I use damage shields on allies as a preventative heal, I don't play a templar so I don't really have access to a reactive burst heal. Doesn't really work when the shields last such a short time though.

Healing ward and ward ally have had a 6s duration since the game launched. Healing ward needs to have a short duration because it's also a burst heal.

To the op: sorcs don't need to have a ward up all the time because power surge is such an effective heal. If you're trying to keep your ward up 100% of the time then you're doing it wrong. Cast power surge, stack dots on target and avoid telegraphed damage and I argue you might never need your ward in solo pve. I even believe a wardless vma run is possible with flawless positioning. Learn to rely on your ward less and you will be a better player in pve. I use my ward only if I screw up and I know that surge heals won't catch up unless I stop incoming damage for a few secs. This is the correct way to use a ward in pve; as a safety net.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Need is not everything, in some ways, i dont often care if i NEED a shield when i play a mage type character with a cloth only. It is how mage in most class fantasies has always been, a powerful mage wwho cany use any armor that hinders the spellcasting and in stead armor, uses magical wards to shield themselves from damage.. bloodspatter(They ARE nice robes after all)

You do understand the dilemma where someone throws a dagger ro a rock at the mage who has no shield from damage, yes? Heal will not help when one is dead from well placed throwing dagger for example.

It is actually very sad people do not think these things anymore at all.. The character you play is just a tool for your personal endeavoursa, not a character living and breathing in a fictional world.

There is more to take in equation that you performace and competence as a player, more to think of than simple need of shielding. There are also immersion reasons and class fantasy reasons, reasons to make something work so that it could also make sense if the user is a living character, not bunch of pixel.

yet there is also the relevant mechanical point of interest here, why is it, that one has to have shield from damage that has a short duration? There are couple of reasons i am sure, buyt the first comes in mind in PVP, it is harder to instakill a cloth wearing player mage who has no shield up at that point because the shield needs to be "Reactive playstyle".. One sure can react with a damage shield when someone uses ambus on you, yes?

As someone ased, i mean all PVE, it is irrelevant in which part in particuylar, the short duration is needless annoyance in every part of PVE experience and the short duration does nothing relevant in any area of PVE

If game designer truly want more complex PVE combat experience, the designer will not make easy decisions to annoy players with short durations and great resource costs. One simply develops a combat system, where also the NPC enemy reacts to your actions and has counterspells for certain situations like shields and ranged damage. We allready have great reactive system on player side with Sword&Board "Defensive posture", one should also allow NPC enemies to reflect ourt spells back at us and also dispelss certain buffs and shields we have.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Need is not everything, in some ways, i dont often care if i NEED a shield when i play a mage type character with a cloth only. It is how mage in most class fantasies has always been, a powerful mage wwho cany use any armor that hinders the spellcasting and in stead armor, uses magical wards to shield themselves from damage.. bloodspatter(They ARE nice robes after all)

You do understand the dilemma where someone throws a dagger ro a rock at the mage who has no shield from damage, yes? Heal will not help when one is dead from well placed throwing dagger for example.

It is actually very sad people do not think these things anymore at all.. The character you play is just a tool for your personal endeavoursa, not a character living and breathing in a fictional world.

There is more to take in equation that you performace and competence as a player, more to think of than simple need of shielding. There are also immersion reasons and class fantasy reasons, reasons to make something work so that it could also make sense if the user is a living character, not bunch of pixel.

yet there is also the relevant mechanical point of interest here, why is it, that one has to have shield from damage that has a short duration? There are couple of reasons i am sure, buyt the first comes in mind in PVP, it is harder to instakill a cloth wearing player mage who has no shield up at that point because the shield needs to be "Reactive playstyle".. One sure can react with a damage shield when someone uses ambus on you, yes?

As someone ased, i mean all PVE, it is irrelevant in which part in particuylar, the short duration is needless annoyance in every part of PVE experience and the short duration does nothing relevant in any area of PVE

If game designer truly want more complex PVE combat experience, the designer will not make easy decisions to annoy players with short durations and great resource costs. One simply develops a combat system, where also the NPC enemy reacts to your actions and has counterspells for certain situations like shields and ranged damage. We allready have great reactive system on player side with Sword&Board "Defensive posture", one should also allow NPC enemies to reflect ourt spells back at us and also dispelss certain buffs and shields we have.

Of course I understand the dilema, I've got over 100 days /played on my main sorc, played him since april 2014. You don't seem to understand how powerful power surge is for solo pve; it heals you every time you critically damage something, even from dots. Depending on setup it can work out to as much as 4k heals per second. It's one of the most powerful heals in the game, only BoL and crit surge are more powerful imo.

There are no un-telegraphed 1-shot mechanics in the game (telegraphed means it comes with an obvious warning like a red circle), hell with 72cp in both hardy and elemental defender there are very few 1-shot mechanics in the game, period. Relying on your ward less is not a compromise, you will actually do more dps as a result because you're not casting your ward as much so you can cast other skills more. Do you currently use power surge in your setup?

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hello.

I dont know if i am alone or not but the fact, that because PVP, all the shields seem to have ridiculously short durations, 6 seconds is just enough time for one fully charged heavy attack and after that, recast. These durations feel very annoying while playing normal PVE content like quests and instances, shields should be something you cast on beginning of fight and recast if necessary, not something that is in rotation all the time..

These durations just make my mages feel like button spammer classes as aside from staff attacks, i need to press all sorts of buttons in a game where button pressing sometimes works and sometimes will not, adding a shield to that mess only makes things feel more bad.

Could we get some more intelligent ,methods of preventing shield stacking that this mess please?

Boohoohoo. Stam players vigor only lasts 5 seconds. Amd it's not even a shield, it's our lifebar we're using as a shield. ;(

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Need is not everything, in some ways, i dont often care if i NEED a shield when i play a mage type character with a cloth only. It is how mage in most class fantasies has always been, a powerful mage wwho cany use any armor that hinders the spellcasting and in stead armor, uses magical wards to shield themselves from damage.. bloodspatter(They ARE nice robes after all)

You do understand the dilemma where someone throws a dagger ro a rock at the mage who has no shield from damage, yes? Heal will not help when one is dead from well placed throwing dagger for example.

It is actually very sad people do not think these things anymore at all.. The character you play is just a tool for your personal endeavoursa, not a character living and breathing in a fictional world.

There is more to take in equation that you performace and competence as a player, more to think of than simple need of shielding. There are also immersion reasons and class fantasy reasons, reasons to make something work so that it could also make sense if the user is a living character, not bunch of pixel.

yet there is also the relevant mechanical point of interest here, why is it, that one has to have shield from damage that has a short duration? There are couple of reasons i am sure, buyt the first comes in mind in PVP, it is harder to instakill a cloth wearing player mage who has no shield up at that point because the shield needs to be "Reactive playstyle".. One sure can react with a damage shield when someone uses ambus on you, yes?

As someone ased, i mean all PVE, it is irrelevant in which part in particuylar, the short duration is needless annoyance in every part of PVE experience and the short duration does nothing relevant in any area of PVE

If game designer truly want more complex PVE combat experience, the designer will not make easy decisions to annoy players with short durations and great resource costs. One simply develops a combat system, where also the NPC enemy reacts to your actions and has counterspells for certain situations like shields and ranged damage. We allready have great reactive system on player side with Sword&Board "Defensive posture", one should also allow NPC enemies to reflect ourt spells back at us and also dispelss certain buffs and shields we have.

I don't think you need shields to kill mudcrabs. They are ... mudcrabs.

Look, are you going to complain that why you need 3 attacks to kill a mudcrab as well? Because you are a powerful mage (or at least you think you are), you shouldn't need 3 attacks to kill a mere mudcrab, right? If the 6-second shield is not immersive in your book, I am pretty sure your low damage will drive you crazy, because you know, you are not a powerful mage when you need 3 attacks to kill a mere mudcrab.

If you take a look at my signature, I care about immersion as much as you do, but I understand what is good gameplay what is not. If you want to give mag classes 20-second shields, mag classes will be far more stronger than stam classes especially in term of sustain and survivability, while they are already stronger now. Then stam users will ask for stam-based 20-second shields, and I am pretty sure you don't think it's immersive right? Guess what, then mag classes will ask for magicka-based sprinting, break free and dodgeroll, when they already have mag-based block, mist form, cloak, and cleanse. Then, stam classes will ask for stam-based mist form, cloak and cleanse, the game will turn into a massive mess with mag-based dodgeroll and stam-based cloak and I don't think you want that to happen, right?

As you have limited experience in PvP so I don't think you want to comment about that. This "reactive playstyle" promotes skillful combat. If your shield lasts 20 seconds, you are straight up OP and unkillable in PvP because you only need to recast the shield when it almost runs out, nothing can kill you. Oh, and ambush is useless when you know how to handle your shields.

NPC using "Defensive posture" is a great idea, though. But it's offtopic.

Oh, btw, this is the definition of a "powerful mage":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2d3L0IobyM

Mayrael · March 2017

As a mag sorc I can tell you few things about shield changes.
1. Shield stacking is in better shape than it used to be before shield "nerf", why? Because there was just one shield aviable to everyone that absorbed all dmg before the change - it was healing ward that worked as it is working now, so it was retroactive shield. Shields from liht armor tree was not working on melee skills so it would be at best decent skill but far from must have. But now mag sorc can reach without any effort 30k shields in pvp. Yes for few seconds but its realy powerfull and when used right makes you unkillable.
2. When shield lasted 20s you had to pay attention is the shield still there, so it was pretty common that some people forgotten to refresh shields, now its just part of usual rotation so caching a sorc without shield is much more dfficult.

Shields should not be allowed to stack, but their duration should be increased back to 20s. Also bolt escape animation needs to be tuned up as its very clumsy and unresponsive in many situations (in general it fires up after 1s and is effective on a flat ground, otherwise it just slows you down).

usmcjdking · March 2017

Shields need to be COMPLETELY redesigned. They are far too influential in PVE and PVP yet they are still extraordinarily limited due to their duration.

Royaji · March 2017

@Tapio75 , you have to understand that sometimes good gameplay is more important than immersion. No, the mages can't be invincible and turn everything to ash in 1 second. Even though they are supposed to be powerful lore wise.

The skill your are looking for is called bound armor. It gives you defenses and lasts forever since it's a toggle. It's not that powerful as ward? Well, you are not supposed to be OP just because you are a mage.

STEVIL · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

In regards to shields honestly they need to return is duration instead of making everything the same but just make it so you cannot stack multiple shields. This would make it so shield stacking 20 second shields doesn't impact the person fighting said stacker while people who use shields don't have to be resource gimped by the fact it runs out within 6s.

I really disagree.

Against any serious content - where you need shields more than once, the "one shield" wont last ten seconds or six seconds in most of the cases. if the enemies are not doing 10k in six seconds (say 1600 DPS total) or in 10s (1000 DPS total) you should be Ok with a few seconds on either side of the shield duration. Its very efficient to allow in between shield gaps the damage your health recovery will clear in 6-10s.

one 20s shield does very little if you are under pressure.

now, how about a morph for a shield that allows it to remain dormant until you click on it or are hit. Then it spawns (automatically if triggered by a hit.) Something not unlike how Defensive Rune does. That could be a strong addition. Could be a cooldown of say 1min on the auto-trigger part but you could trigger it over and over manually like any shield.

Tapio75 · March 2017

You folks should stop looking at the longer duration as a problem.

The long duration shield does not prevent anyone from killing anyone using such shield nor does it make anyone less vulnerable. If something, 20 second shield duration makes players more vulnerable and easier to kill for players as well.

You see less experienced players tend to forget to refresh shields that last long, there are usually gaps people see in the refresh rotation of less experienced player, this makes them more vulnerable to sudden damage bursts in PVE and in PVP as well.

When less experienced player notices that shield has a short duration, he/she most likely will remember to refresh it more often and thus, is actually much harder to slay than with long durations shield. This is true in PVE and PVP as well.

Experienced players do not notice anything else than mechanic that is more annoying in situations where they want to use shield as part of immersive gameplay rather than as a means to prevent damage. In situations where experienced player needs the shield, he/she will refresh the shield anyway long before the actual duration timer ends to keep shields in full aabsorption capacity.

The shield can last 3 second or 5 minutes, this is irrelevant in performance point of wiev because the shield HP is same in both cases. The shield will absorb the same amount of damage whether it has 6 seconds duration or 30 sec duration.

If we have a hypothetical situation where one has shield with streth of 1000 hitpoints, the shield lasts 30 seconds when cast. An opponent lands attack with no cast time on shield that hits for 500 hitpoints, the attack also aplies damage over time effect that ticks 50 hits per second, this process takes about 2 seconds, meaning that shield has 400 hitpoints left. Then the opponent lands next attack without cast time, this is critical hit dealing 600 damage, the shield evaporates and the shield user is vulnerable to direct damage. In this hypothetical situation, shield held for about 4 to 5 seconds, then needs to be recast to keep surviving. This time does not change whether the shield has 6 seconds duration or 1 minute duration, the shield collapses always, when enough damage is applied.

In PVE cases where NPC enemies cant kill you anyways, even while you stand still and do nothing it takes over 10 seconds for an NPC to kill you, it does not matter, nobody needs shields but in terms of immersion and in terms of playing a mage that has some wisdom, keeping the shields up makes more sense than not having shields and rely on heals. This has nothing to do with ganme mechanicsa but has all to do with how mage with clothes only should act if he/shje has any sense in head, heal simply wont help when you have dagger sticking out of your heart but shield will save the mages life. Again, this has nothing to do with game mechanics, its only how rationally thinking mage would act if he/she has a shield on his spellbook

Magdalina · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

<stuff>

In PVE cases where NPC enemies cant kill you anyways, even while you stand still and do nothing it takes over 10 seconds for an NPC to kill you, it does not matter, nobody needs shields but in terms of immersion and in terms of playing a mage that has some wisdom, keeping the shields up makes more sense than not having shields and rely on heals. This has nothing to do with ganme mechanicsa but has all to do with how mage with clothes only should act if he/shje has any sense in head, heal simply wont help when you have dagger sticking out of your heart but shield will save the mages life. Again, this has nothing to do with game mechanics, its only how rationally thinking mage would act if he/she has a shield on his spellbook

So basically, you want major mechanics/gameplay change(s) for rp reasons.
It's not that wanting to rp rather than fight is a bad thing, to each their own, but this is not going to happen because there's far more people who are here for the combat part of the game rather than rp, simple as that. It also seems like what you need isn't a shield per se but perhaps a sort of personality or transform or something that'd make it look like your character has a shield so you can feel at peace. Maybe Zenimax will add something like this at some point - seems way more likely than what you are asking for now.

I think there's that set that gives you a shield if you aren't damaged for x seconds? It used to last 15 seconds if I remember right, if that hasn't been reduced to 6 seconds as well, you could use that too. It's pretty meh mini-maxing wise but the glowy bubble looks cool.

I might not totally agree with 6 second duration in PvE(mostly because I liked screwing around with my Twilight pretending to be a healer and she dies too easily without a perma shield) but it's definitely not gonna be changed because "immersion". Gameplay wise, as been pointed out and as you agree, >6 second shield isn't needed all that much.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@Magdalina
Everyone who plays a game wwith vast lore is participating as being part of that world, be it "RP" or just playinf doe combat or competition.

Everything we have in the MMORPG's comes from lore and the immersion side need to be taken as integral part of any good game. If one simply want to combat, the lore of the gameworld is still present and classes cant simply be built around mechanics, the immersion and lore, fantasy has to be taken in consideration as well, otherwise the game is bland ffor everyone.

Adding some more time to shield duration does not count as "Major change". It is minor and in competitive gameplay irrelevant as the shield streth is the relevant factor, not how long or short the shields duration is. Short duration just makes everyone basicall less vulnerable by forcing people to refresh shields more often as part of rotation. If you can just understand that shield duration has nothing to do with how someone surbvives or dies, it only has short duration to prevent shield stacking and shield stacking can be more efficiently be removed bt making changes that REALLY prevent shield stacking like simply not allowing anyone to cast another same type of shield while one is allready active.

No major ward if one is allready active, no major evasion if one is active no damage shield if one is allready active etc. Major

Biro123 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

In PVE cases where NPC enemies cant kill you anyways, even while you stand still and do nothing it takes over 10 seconds for an NPC to kill you, it does not matter, nobody needs shields but in terms of immersion and in terms of playing a mage that has some wisdom, keeping the shields up makes more sense than not having shields and rely on heals. This has nothing to do with ganme mechanicsa but has all to do with how mage with clothes only should act if he/shje has any sense in head, heal simply wont help when you have dagger sticking out of your heart but shield will save the mages life. Again, this has nothing to do with game mechanics, its only how rationally thinking mage would act if he/she has a shield on his spellbook

Sorry, but you just can't use that argument.. having long duration wards (pretty much permenant) up is surely up the owners of the IP to decide.

I mean there are loads of fantasy wizards that don't use long-duration shields.. I mean, look at Gandalf.. you only ever see him shield up while fighting a Balrog - and it doesn't last too long. The rest of the time its frost-staff blocking.. or standing behind the armoured bloke with the wooden shield.. Yoda - its all blocking/deflecting the attacks as they come in, but using the force to do it.. The invisble girl off the fantastic 4 doesn't permenantly walk around with a damage shield up.. it just gets cast as she is attacked..

I mean, I'm sure you could come up with examples to support your views - but the fact that there are plenty of other examples means that your way isn't the only way..

But yeah, back to gameplay.. just build in enough health to absorb the big hits THEN shield up only to recover. For regular, smaller hits, you have surge... Or just use infernal guardian - then shielding is an attack, too. At the end of the day its all just pushing a button. if adding an attack component to it makes it more fun for you - then go and do that.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

You folks should stop looking at the longer duration as a problem.

The long duration shield does not prevent anyone from killing anyone using such shield nor does it make anyone less vulnerable. If something, 20 second shield duration makes players more vulnerable and easier to kill for players as well.

You see less experienced players tend to forget to refresh shields that last long, there are usually gaps people see in the refresh rotation of less experienced player, this makes them more vulnerable to sudden damage bursts in PVE and in PVP as well.

When less experienced player notices that shield has a short duration, he/she most likely will remember to refresh it more often and thus, is actually much harder to slay than with long durations shield. This is true in PVE and PVP as well.

Experienced players do not notice anything else than mechanic that is more annoying in situations where they want to use shield as part of immersive gameplay rather than as a means to prevent damage. In situations where experienced player needs the shield, he/she will refresh the shield anyway long before the actual duration timer ends to keep shields in full aabsorption capacity.

The shield can last 3 second or 5 minutes, this is irrelevant in performance point of wiev because the shield HP is same in both cases. The shield will absorb the same amount of damage whether it has 6 seconds duration or 30 sec duration.

If we have a hypothetical situation where one has shield with streth of 1000 hitpoints, the shield lasts 30 seconds when cast. An opponent lands attack with no cast time on shield that hits for 500 hitpoints, the attack also aplies damage over time effect that ticks 50 hits per second, this process takes about 2 seconds, meaning that shield has 400 hitpoints left. Then the opponent lands next attack without cast time, this is critical hit dealing 600 damage, the shield evaporates and the shield user is vulnerable to direct damage. In this hypothetical situation, shield held for about 4 to 5 seconds, then needs to be recast to keep surviving. This time does not change whether the shield has 6 seconds duration or 1 minute duration, the shield collapses always, when enough damage is applied.

This is totally incorrect. You can clearly see when the shield is down, and there are addons on PC that tell you exactly how many hitpoints the shield still has. Decent players can just cast shield whenever the shield is down/almost down, which makes them tankier than tanks while can deal massive amount of damage. It's straight up OP.

Don't you understand that shields used to be 20 seconds and it was proven to be OP af, everyone used shields, that's why they changed it to 6 seconds?

Tapio75 wrote: »

In PVE cases where NPC enemies cant kill you anyways, even while you stand still and do nothing it takes over 10 seconds for an NPC to kill you, it does not matter, nobody needs shields but in terms of immersion and in terms of playing a mage that has some wisdom, keeping the shields up makes more sense than not having shields and rely on heals. This has nothing to do with ganme mechanicsa but has all to do with how mage with clothes only should act if he/shje has any sense in head, heal simply wont help when you have dagger sticking out of your heart but shield will save the mages life. Again, this has nothing to do with game mechanics, its only how rationally thinking mage would act if he/she has a shield on his spellbook

Your character is not a wise or powerful mage anyway, he needs 3 spells to kill a mere mudcrab!

Tapio75 · March 2017

@hmsdragonfly
Correct, these addons take care of the fact that players keep even the short duration shields up all the time, the shields are still OP in your point of wiev because people can keep them up all the time while going full offensive at the same time, just like before,

And however you wanna twist it, its only an issue on PVP and this issue still exists but the shield stacking which the short duration wwas made to prevent does not happen anymore in that degree and the actual shield stacking prevention can be done without need to reduce shield timers.

In PVE, everything can be done with any class if you are experienced player and if you need some optimal build to strive, you need tto learn more. I could agree with you, that the long duration shields are OP but then we would be both wrong.

Shield duration is irrelevant, shield hitpoint are, what makes shield OP or not.

Only thing short duration does, is making playing a bitless enjoyable. I can still solo everything which does not have some mechanic preventing solo play, the shield duration does not stop that and i am not playing even a sorc right now. I am playing a dragonknight with igneous shield and very litle extra health, full mahicka made like a pyromancer of sorts. Does not even have any decent ranged CC snare, enemies are on my faceand shields do not run out of hitpoints, they run out of duration which makes me recast them in every rotation. In some terms, i might be OP because i can do it all.

idk · March 2017

The 6 second duration works just fine in PvE. There are not many situations that a shield need to be up from time in the be trials. Knowing when to shield is key. Best for people to learn when the damage will occur is best. The only 20+ second shields was way overkill.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

@hmsdragonfly
Correct, these addons take care of the fact that players keep even the short duration shields up all the time, the shields are still OP in your point of wiev because people can keep them up all the time while going full offensive at the same time, just like before,

And however you wanna twist it, its only an issue on PVP and this issue still exists but the shield stacking which the short duration wwas made to prevent does not happen anymore in that degree and the actual shield stacking prevention can be done without need to reduce shield timers.

In PVE, everything can be done with any class if you are experienced player and if you need some optimal build to strive, you need tto learn more. I could agree with you, that the long duration shields are OP but then we would be both wrong.

Shield duration is irrelevant, shield hitpoint are, what makes shield OP or not.

Only thing short duration does, is making playing a bitless enjoyable. I can still solo everything which does not have some mechanic preventing solo play, the shield duration does not stop that and i am not playing even a sorc right now. I am playing a dragonknight with igneous shield and very litle extra health, full mahicka made like a pyromancer of sorts. Does not even have any decent ranged CC snare, enemies are on my faceand shields do not run out of hitpoints, they run out of duration which makes me recast them in every rotation. In some terms, i might be OP because i can do it all.

The shield isn't OP in my point of view, it was proven to be OP by facts, shield used to be 20 seconds and guess what, stam builds were dead.

And no, it isn't OP in only PvP, it is OP in PvE as well. Do you know why mag classes are much better than stam classes in trials? Shields. Mag builds are much better in PvE because of shields already.

Again, even when you nerf shield's hitpoint and extend duration, a decent player can always cast shield whenever the shield is down/almost down, which makes them tankier than tanks while can deal massive amount of damage. We also run into another problem, shield's hitpoints are balanced around making bosses unable to oneshot you, so the hit points cannot be too low. Reducing duration fixes both of these problems: People cannot just cast the shield before the fight, go full offensive and only cast it again when the shield is down/almost down, they have to be more careful with shield casting, and the shield is not too weak that you get oneshot by bosses.

Only PvP problem? So you are saying, we don't need balance in PvE because everything is easy? Have you done trial? vMA? Or at least DLC vet dungeons HM? No? Try them before saying things like that.

The devs shouldn't extend shields to 20 seconds just because your not-really-powerful mage wants to feel powerful

I mean, your mage needs 3 spells to kill a mudcrab.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Where exactly the "balance" comes from 6 second shields in PVE? 6 second duration does not lessen the hitpoints, it does not prevent people from casting shields before battle, they still cast shields before battle and keep them up efficiently like before. The slight damage reduction in adding shield to every rotation is negletable, it does not matter. Everything is as it was before in terms of survival and damge, only thing is that some players are having less fun because the shield has to be cast in every rotation.
I also see you moved from sorcs being OP to all magicka classes being OP in PVE, at least to some dgree that is.

In my opinion, stamina classes are as good as magicka classes/builds, only difference being, that having more survival on stam build lessens the damage a litle but have you noticed that most stamina morphs have noticeably bigger damage than magicka morphs?

In the end we shall not agree on this, i know im right and you know you are right.

Short duration does not change magicka builds to any less than they were with longer duration, all it does is make playing less enjouyable for the oomphest time.. I will not argue about this any longer as i know from experience that no matter what, shields can be kept up full time like before, no gaps anywhere, nothing has been nalanced from what it was in PVE.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Where exactly the "balance" comes from 6 second shields in PVE? 6 second duration does not lessen the hitpoints, it does not prevent people from casting shields before battle, they still cast shields before battle and keep them up efficiently like before. The slight damage reduction in adding shield to every rotation is negletable, it does not matter. Everything is as it was before in terms of survival and damge, only thing is that some players are having less fun because the shield has to be cast in every rotation.
I also see you moved from sorcs being OP to all magicka classes being OP in PVE, at least to some dgree that is.

In my opinion, stamina classes are as good as magicka classes/builds, only difference being, that having more survival on stam build lessens the damage a litle but have you noticed that most stamina morphs have noticeably bigger damage than magicka morphs?

In the end we shall not agree on this, i know im right and you know you are right.

Short duration does not change magicka builds to any less than they were with longer duration, all it does is make playing less enjouyable for the oomphest time.. I will not argue about this any longer as i know from experience that no matter what, shields can be kept up full time like before, no gaps anywhere, nothing has been nalanced from what it was in PVE.

really???? a slight damage reduction does not make a difference??? lets say your dropping 20k crystal frags. with a higher duration you can fit in an extra 3 or 4 frags before reapplying shields. those 3 or 4 frags do not get cast with a lower duration. that is 60-80k extra damage in a 20 second window that your would not normally have. add that up over a boss fight and it is far from minor reduction. especially when your talking competetive pve.

rotaugen454 · March 2017

Actually, the short shield time works ok for me. It's now reflexively in my rotation. Heck, I can solo nearly anything by simply alternating shields with heavy attacks. It obviously won't work in all content, but can slow grind the majority. When it was longer, I would forget about it until it was too late.

AFrostWolf · March 2017

Short shields isn't the answer. I don't see why they can't be treated like NB's cripple where you can only have 1 on at a time and a new one will override the old one.

Magdalina · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Where exactly the "balance" comes from 6 second shields in PVE? 6 second duration does not lessen the hitpoints, it does not prevent people from casting shields before battle, they still cast shields before battle and keep them up efficiently like before. The slight damage reduction in adding shield to every rotation is negletable, it does not matter. Everything is as it was before in terms of survival and damge, only thing is that some players are having less fun because the shield has to be cast in every rotation.

"Balance" is an argueable term, but you can't seriously argue longer/shorter shields not changing things. Yeah they do, they change the combat pace. If you want to keep your shield up 100% of time, you gotta have it in your rotation, probably on front bar even(well or wep swap every ~5 seconds but I wouldn't trust weapon swap enough for this). This will be a pretty big dps loss and it's not really needed in most fights anyway but hey, up to you how to play. Most people stopped trying to have a shield up all the time and only use it if they see a lot of damage coming/have just recieved a lot of damage, if at all. Now as a magsorc I rely on block/dodge/watching the enemy cues more than on my formerly ever present shields. Though honestly pretty much all open world stuff is so laughably easy now it doesn't need shields. If I do feel the damage is overwhelming I will put the shield on my rotation and have to carefully watch the timer to make sure I recast it on time. It is a pretty huge gameplay pace change.

They're not going to revert that change because "immersion". Sorry. And no, your mage can't turn everything to ashes either. He also can't fly(and, as been pointed out, can't even oneshot a mudcrab). And dragonknights can't actualy turn into a dragon. It is a cruel, unfair world we live in.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Where exactly the "balance" comes from 6 second shields in PVE? 6 second duration does not lessen the hitpoints, it does not prevent people from casting shields before battle, they still cast shields before battle and keep them up efficiently like before.The slight damage reduction in adding shield to every rotation is negletable, it does not matter. Everything is as it was before in terms of survival and damge, only thing is that some players are having less fun because the shield has to be cast in every rotation.
I also see you moved from sorcs being OP to all magicka classes being OP in PVE, at least to some dgree that is.

In my opinion, stamina classes are as good as magicka classes/builds, only difference being, that having more survival on stam build lessens the damage a litle but have you noticed that most stamina morphs have noticeably bigger damage than magicka morphs?

In the end we shall not agree on this, i know im right and you know you are right.

Short duration does not change magicka builds to any less than they were with longer duration, all it does is make playing less enjouyable for the oomphest time.. I will not argue about this any longer as i know from experience that no matter what, shields can be kept up full time like before, no gaps anywhere, nothing has been nalanced from what it was in PVE.

I am pretty sure you haven't even completed any vet DLC dungeons HM. Or even vet dungeons. You have no idea whatsoever about PvE. Let's be honest, your experience in PvE is from killing mudcrabs.

The 6-second shield forces people to
1) put ward in your rotation. Damage reduction is neglectable? What's your DPS, 10k? Please keep in mind that PvE is not balanced around killing mudcrabs, the objective is to balance around the high level of PvE, vet dungeons HM, vet trials, vMA, and so far, mag builds are having significant advantages compared to stam builds in top level PvE.
2) pay attention to the mechanics, and cast the shield when they think the danger is coming (example, boss is going to use some special attacks), so it's a little bit fairer for stam builds because stam builds rely on dodging attacks, which is

Stam classes are as good as magicka classes, but that's in PvP, and in killing mudcrabs. If you take a look at trials (which you have no idea whatsoever), mag users are highly favored. Yes, you can still do vet trials with stam builds, that's true, stam builds are still viable, but mag classes are obviously the better choices and most coordinated competitive PvE groups go with mostly magicka DPS.

Don't take my words for it, it is a known fact that when the wards were 20 seconds, all stam builds were dead.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Damage reduction is negletable because the shield is noww in every rotation, it takes aboy 0.5 second more time, this is not very much though the fast button pressing sometimes makes things awkward because ESO engine does not handle fast play well, at least not on my side, sometimes things happen, sometimes not.. Anyway, the point is, that while i do less damage, the shield is stronger because it is refreshed more often than before.

All this makes me take considerably less damage while at the same time, do slightly less damage, the damage reduction is irrelevant because i am now practically unkillable at least while playing a magsorc. Things take some time longer to kill, granted. But they get killed thoug my DPS might not be up to elitist standards, it is good enough to complete any content with group or alone.

As some people seem to think, that the change was made to balance PVE because sorcs could do it all and everyone played sorrc or magicka build in genera. Nothing has changed, sorcs are less vulnerable in PVE now due constant refresh of damage shield, can solo everything including that large mudcrab in Stonefalls ;P I dont even use surge on my current sorc, only heal i need is clanndear heal because the shield prevents damage in most cases and damage resistance bonus from boundless storm also adds to survivability.

I am not playing your "Optimal" dps build however but my sorc is harder to kill now that she was before but the constant shield casting makes rotation a bit unreliable and is adding unnecessary quality of life reduction..

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Damage reduction is negletable because the shield is noww in every rotation, it takes aboy 0.5 second more time, this is not very much though the fast button pressing sometimes makes things awkward because ESO engine does not handle fast play well, at least not on my side, sometimes things happen, sometimes not.. Anyway, the point is, that while i do less damage, the shield is stronger because it is refreshed more often than before.

All this makes me take considerably less damage while at the same time, do slightly less damage, the damage reduction is irrelevant because i am now practically unkillable at least while playing a magsorc. Things take some time longer to kill, granted. But they get killed thoug my DPS might not be up to elitist standards, it is good enough to complete any content with group or alone.

As some people seem to think, that the change was made to balance PVE because sorcs could do it all and everyone played sorrc or magicka build in genera. Nothing has changed, sorcs are less vulnerable in PVE now due constant refresh of damage shield, can solo everything including that large mudcrab in Stonefalls ;P I dont even use surge on my current sorc, only heal i need is clanndear heal because the shield prevents damage in most cases and damage resistance bonus from boundless storm also adds to survivability.

I am not playing your "Optimal" dps build however but my sorc is harder to kill now that she was before but the constant shield casting makes rotation a bit unreliable and is adding unnecessary quality of life reduction..

Look, come back when you have done some top level PvE, at least vet DLC dungeons HM. You have absolutely no idea about PvE.

I don't think a hybrid DK is anywhere near "optimal" or "meta", but whatever you say.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Lets face it, we dont really need optimal/meta builds in any content of the game. The delusion of needing one is only derived from DPS competition. S litle unorthodox builds are fully viable in top content as well but the DPS is not up to some players standards which is fine by me, for each its own.

In group PVE, people tend to go over the top to do optimals/meta so that they fit the DPS meter standard of the competitive PVE player, this is fine as i say but it does not mean that5 this idea should be forced upon anyone.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

That is the longest heavy attack I have ever heard of. Shield duration is fine in both PVE and PVP. Shields are NOT meant to be cast at the beginning of a fight and make you invincible. They are meant to be cast reactively in "oh Crap" moments. They could frankly shorten them in PVE, and it wouldnt change much for people that use them correctly.