Ward/Shield durations PVE

Tapio75

Hello.

I dont know if i am alone or not but the fact, that because PVP, all the shields seem to have ridiculously short durations, 6 seconds is just enough time for one fully charged heavy attack and after that, recast. These durations feel very annoying while playing normal PVE content like quests and instances, shields should be something you cast on beginning of fight and recast if necessary, not something that is in rotation all the time..

These durations just make my mages feel like button spammer classes as aside from staff attacks, i need to press all sorts of buttons in a game where button pressing sometimes works and sometimes will not, adding a shield to that mess only makes things feel more bad.

Could we get some more intelligent ,methods of preventing shield stacking that this mess please?

Keep_Door

Aside from solo pve like vma i feel like sheild stacking isnt needed in Pve. At least if everyone is doing their jobs.

MakeMeUhSamich

Totally agree with OP!

Tapio75

DreamClown wrote: »

Totally agree with OP!

I for one have always had just 1 shield that i use, no need for more..

Though i understand that shield stacking is a problem in PVP but the short duration as a fix screws at least part of my gameplay flow and removes some fun from the fight process.

Lynx7386

This is a bit stressful for healers, too. As a healer I use damage shields on allies as a preventative heal, I don't play a templar so I don't really have access to a reactive burst heal. Doesn't really work when the shields last such a short time though.

hmsdragonfly

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hello.

I dont know if i am alone or not but the fact, that because PVP, all the shields seem to have ridiculously short durations, 6 seconds is just enough time for one fully charged heavy attack and after that, recast. These durations feel very annoying while playing normal PVE content like quests and instances, shields should be something you cast on beginning of fight and recast if necessary, not something that is in rotation all the time..

These durations just make my mages feel like button spammer classes as aside from staff attacks, i need to press all sorts of buttons in a game where button pressing sometimes works and sometimes will not, adding a shield to that mess only makes things feel more bad.

Could we get some more intelligent ,methods of preventing shield stacking that this mess please?

By PvE, you mean questing, normal dungeons, vet dungeons, normal trials, vet trials, vMA, or just killing mudcrabs?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

MaxwellC

In regards to shields honestly they need to return is duration instead of making everything the same but just make it so you cannot stack multiple shields. This would make it so shield stacking 20 second shields doesn't impact the person fighting said stacker while people who use shields don't have to be resource gimped by the fact it runs out within 6s.

EldritchPenguin

Shields used to last 20 seconds. The big problem with that is that players could use them proactively; they could cast the shield at the beginning of the fight, and they'd be able to go full offense from there without ever really having to worry about their defense. And since shields scale off of offensive stats, they could stack the hell out of their offensive stats to create builds that were both extremely tanky and could hit like a freight train full of slightly smaller freight trains.

The short shield duration ensures that they are reactive defense instead of proactive defense. Now people have to decide between attacking and defending. It was absolutely a necessary change from a PvP standpoint.

Tapio75

@Lynx7386

I imagine it can be a bit stressful on resource management as well? At least if i use obsidian shield/Igneous shield that works on pary members near me, i have to be constantly keeping it up and waste resources, if i also use attack abilities on the side, i quickly seem to run out ofmagicka as a magicka Dragonknight so i end up using flame heavy attacks and igneous shield all the time, its pretty uninteresting as well to have this sort of playstyle forced by short duration.

DRXHarbinger

Shields weren't designed to keep you alive 24/7 they are an added defense. Plus in combat in pve they don't take 6s worth of damage where it matters.

Lynx7386

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Shields weren't designed to keep you alive 24/7 they are an added defense. Plus in combat in pve they don't take 6s worth of damage where it matters.

Fact is, a healer used to be able to use something like igneous shield and know that for the next 20 seconds your dps could survive a hit if it happened to come their way, which let you spend less time staring at health bars and more time focusing on resource management and positioning.

Tapio75

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Shields used to last 20 seconds. The big problem with that is that players could use them proactively; they could cast the shield at the beginning of the fight, and they'd be able to go full offense

This is how ranged mage is supposed to work.

Also not all shields scale from the resource they use, Igneous shield for example, scales from health which in return, makes firemage style dragonknight not having very strong shield to begin with..

In any case, the amount of scaling from resource is so small that it hardly makes difference in most normal cases. I recently tested my Sorcerer without any magicka, stamina or health assigned after respeck, the Sorc is CP160.

I proceeded to solo a Dolmen with the sorc in question and was able to do it without any difficulty. I then allocated stamina, magicka and health as they are supposed to be as range magicka using sorc and tried the same dolmen again, there was no noticeable difference in performance.. I am sure there is small difference in time one can complete such task with or without those stats but even while observing damage values of spells with and without the resource, the change was very small.

In any case, i call this "reactive" shield using as "Unnecessary hassle" that break the flow of combat for mage type characters. Damage shields should perphaps also scale from armor values so the more you have armor, the less you have damage shield.

Tapio75

I feel that people who like short duration shields are exactly the PVP players that were frustrated for some players stacking shield, and for reason, shield stacking should not be allowed but the short duration is not the right fix to the problem.

Izaki

People still complaining about shields? Its been 6 months. Its time to learn to use them, don't you think?

In PvE you barely need a shield. The only places where a shield is a must have is vMA, vDSA and Trial Hard modes. Even then, you only shield reactively when you've taken or are taking damage. If you're spamming them, you're losing DPS, which is the real reason why you're dying.

Tapio75

Aside from performance point of wiev, not everything is about need. While someone may not "need" a shield in every fight, it may feel wrong to some, that a mage wearing just silken robes goes to battle without shield, if mage is foolish enough too engage enemies without any shield spell active, he/she would be pierced to death by first arrow that hits the mage.

But it is also totally unnecessary hassle to constantly cast shields up and waste resources on it, this change had nothing to do with improving any PVE gameplay, just was made to make PVP more balanced.

DRXHarbinger

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Shields weren't designed to keep you alive 24/7 they are an added defense. Plus in combat in pve they don't take 6s worth of damage where it matters.

Fact is, a healer used to be able to use something like igneous shield and know that for the next 20 seconds your dps could survive a hit if it happened to come their way, which let you spend less time staring at health bars and more time focusing on resource management and positioning.

What??? A DK? That's what you're basing this on? Sorry but this whole issue stemmed from everyone hating on shields. Crying hard they couldn't complete vma on anything but a sorc because they had shields and nightblades couldn't gank sorcs trotting around arena district with a 33s shield up.

Fact is your dps shouldn't be so scrubby they can't survive by themselves for 5s whilst your healer gets his *** together / finishes watching can videos on YT. Your scenario above just implies poor comms with the team. Just say hold up whilst I regen and they'll be fine and not run into a 1m health crem guard.

Can't even think if any scenario outside of trial bosses that require you to wait for a healer to get "in position and manage resources"

Tapio75

We know why this short duration was implemented, we are not arguing about that.. Though every class has access to some sort of Damage shield or Ward and i do not see how making shields having shorter duration help in anyway the implied issue of Sorcs only being able to complete some content.

This duration is purely to prevent shield stacking and thus, can be removed and returned to åroper 20 secs or so by preventing shield stacking by some other means.

Why cant they simply make it so, that one can only have one active ward and one active shield on at any time? Like when i have Mirage on Nightblade, it is disabled when i wear 5 piece hist bark to prevent double warding. In similar way, if you allready have one damage shield up, another cant be cast on you before the first one ends. This mechanic would also work for shields like Igneous shield which is cast on party members as well, If igneous shield is up on a party member, that party member cant cast any of his/her own damage shields until the Igneous has dissolved from the character.

bowmanz607

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hello.

I dont know if i am alone or not but the fact, that because PVP, all the shields seem to have ridiculously short durations, 6 seconds is just enough time for one fully charged heavy attack and after that, recast. These durations feel very annoying while playing normal PVE content like quests and instances, shields should be something you cast on beginning of fight and recast if necessary, not something that is in rotation all the time..

These durations just make my mages feel like button spammer classes as aside from staff attacks, i need to press all sorts of buttons in a game where button pressing sometimes works and sometimes will not, adding a shield to that mess only makes things feel more bad.

Could we get some more intelligent ,methods of preventing shield stacking that this mess please?

it takes you 6 seconds to heavy attack??? hmmmm

if you want higher duration go with the other morph. It is a trade off, higher duration for less shield strength. omg balance.

the problem was the fact that sorcs had it all. they could have full defenses up while also putting out high damage. this is true in pve and pvp. dont just try and lump this into a pvp thing. This was the most noticeable in vma where sorcs had nothing to worry about.

the changes forces you to make a choice. you no longer have the capabilities to have full defense and offense. that is a good thing for balance.

cpuScientist

Shields are where they should be right now. 6 seconds is perfect for PvP a d for PvE it's just fine. This is coming from a long time Sorc Main. If you are in solo situations make sure you have power surge up and then you use the shield reactively and let surge heal you under it. You can if you know damage is incoming shield up aswell. But 20 second shields were to good of a defense in all cases PvP and PvE.

zaria

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Shields used to last 20 seconds. The big problem with that is that players could use them proactively; they could cast the shield at the beginning of the fight, and they'd be able to go full offense from there without ever really having to worry about their defense. And since shields scale off of offensive stats, they could stack the hell out of their offensive stats to create builds that were both extremely tanky and could hit like a freight train full of slightly smaller freight trains.

The short shield duration ensures that they are reactive defense instead of proactive defense. Now people have to decide between attacking and defending. It was absolutely a necessary change from a PvP standpoint.

For PvP the short duration makes perfectly sense as you say. In PvE 15-20 seconds makes more sense.
Another reason to have skills work a bit differently in PvP and PvE.
It would make the game much easier to balance.
No it will not confuse players, playstyle in PvP and PvE is very different anyway.
The real downside would be if you got more PvP / PvE morphs.

bowmanz607

zaria wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Shields used to last 20 seconds. The big problem with that is that players could use them proactively; they could cast the shield at the beginning of the fight, and they'd be able to go full offense from there without ever really having to worry about their defense. And since shields scale off of offensive stats, they could stack the hell out of their offensive stats to create builds that were both extremely tanky and could hit like a freight train full of slightly smaller freight trains.

The short shield duration ensures that they are reactive defense instead of proactive defense. Now people have to decide between attacking and defending. It was absolutely a necessary change from a PvP standpoint.

For PvP the short duration makes perfectly sense as you say. In PvE 15-20 seconds makes more sense.
Another reason to have skills work a bit differently in PvP and PvE.
It would make the game much easier to balance.
No it will not confuse players, playstyle in PvP and PvE is very different anyway.
The real downside would be if you got more PvP / PvE morphs.

What 15-20 is fine for pve? Or so a sorc should be able to keep up full defense while.in a fight and not have to worry about getting hit real hard while pulling top end dps. Don't think so. Sorry.

Jacozilla

bowmanz607 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Shields used to last 20 seconds. The big problem with that is that players could use them proactively; they could cast the shield at the beginning of the fight, and they'd be able to go full offense from there without ever really having to worry about their defense. And since shields scale off of offensive stats, they could stack the hell out of their offensive stats to create builds that were both extremely tanky and could hit like a freight train full of slightly smaller freight trains.

The short shield duration ensures that they are reactive defense instead of proactive defense. Now people have to decide between attacking and defending. It was absolutely a necessary change from a PvP standpoint.

For PvP the short duration makes perfectly sense as you say. In PvE 15-20 seconds makes more sense.
Another reason to have skills work a bit differently in PvP and PvE.
It would make the game much easier to balance.
No it will not confuse players, playstyle in PvP and PvE is very different anyway.
The real downside would be if you got more PvP / PvE morphs.

What 15-20 is fine for pve? Or so a sorc should be able to keep up full defense while.in a fight and not have to worry about getting hit real hard while pulling top end dps. Don't think so. Sorry.

your own triggered response contradicts what you say - whether 15-20 sec is a long duration or not is relative; whether sources need to 'worry about getting hit real hard' is precisely the issue which you say but clearly do not realize what that means.

no matter how long a shield lasts, if a sorc gets 'hit real hard', then that shield evaporates. Your issue then would be how large the shield can be, not how long the shield can stay up.

balance mechanic already existed before, and still exists now - in pre, raw damage is the nail to pierce the sorc shield. In pvp, playing against the sorc strength (e.g. trying to break their shield), is just dumb. Whether that shield lasts 6 sec or 20 sec, you lower yourself to fight the sorc on their terms if you try and bash away at their shield and just keep whacking till it goes down.

you attack a sorc at his stamina pool; once you break their limited stamina pool, cc them and game over.

so in pvp, sure - larger shields and duration play a factor, which is why it was nerfed to half reduction and 6 sec. What made no sense is changing it for pve. This was yet again another pvp borking of pve for absolutely no reason.

It should return to 20 sec for pre because as much as players like you will cry about it, there is no 'balance' to speak of - it is pve. In pve right now, tanks can stack enough mitigation and have enough sustain where they are de facto invulnerable to pve. Sure this makes killing slower, but they still kill at reasonable speed and pretty much live through anything. Should that be nerfed? No. Why? Because it is pve. If you like that ability, then roll a tank.

Nanny state players like yourself are a cancer on this game. Instead of saying 'omg, this is OP.......so I will roll that XXX build too!', you cry foul and say 'I want no one else to play a build / style that I don't like'. Don't think so. Sorry. Grow up and stop being a man child.

leave PVP to balance PVP, and leave PVE well enough alone.

nursingninja

The shield should last for 30-60 seconds

MakeMeUhSamich

nursingninja wrote: »

The shield should last for 30-60 seconds

Yep, should be same duration as surge.

bowmanz607

Jacozilla wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Shields used to last 20 seconds. The big problem with that is that players could use them proactively; they could cast the shield at the beginning of the fight, and they'd be able to go full offense from there without ever really having to worry about their defense. And since shields scale off of offensive stats, they could stack the hell out of their offensive stats to create builds that were both extremely tanky and could hit like a freight train full of slightly smaller freight trains.

The short shield duration ensures that they are reactive defense instead of proactive defense. Now people have to decide between attacking and defending. It was absolutely a necessary change from a PvP standpoint.

For PvP the short duration makes perfectly sense as you say. In PvE 15-20 seconds makes more sense.
Another reason to have skills work a bit differently in PvP and PvE.
It would make the game much easier to balance.
No it will not confuse players, playstyle in PvP and PvE is very different anyway.
The real downside would be if you got more PvP / PvE morphs.

What 15-20 is fine for pve? Or so a sorc should be able to keep up full defense while.in a fight and not have to worry about getting hit real hard while pulling top end dps. Don't think so. Sorry.

your own triggered response contradicts what you say - whether 15-20 sec is a long duration or not is relative; whether sources need to 'worry about getting hit real hard' is precisely the issue which you say but clearly do not realize what that means.

no matter how long a shield lasts, if a sorc gets 'hit real hard', then that shield evaporates. Your issue then would be how large the shield can be, not how long the shield can stay up.

balance mechanic already existed before, and still exists now - in pre, raw damage is the nail to pierce the sorc shield. In pvp, playing against the sorc strength (e.g. trying to break their shield), is just dumb. Whether that shield lasts 6 sec or 20 sec, you lower yourself to fight the sorc on their terms if you try and bash away at their shield and just keep whacking till it goes down.

you attack a sorc at his stamina pool; once you break their limited stamina pool, cc them and game over.

so in pvp, sure - larger shields and duration play a factor, which is why it was nerfed to half reduction and 6 sec. What made no sense is changing it for pve. This was yet again another pvp borking of pve for absolutely no reason.

It should return to 20 sec for pre because as much as players like you will cry about it, there is no 'balance' to speak of - it is pve. In pve right now, tanks can stack enough mitigation and have enough sustain where they are de facto invulnerable to pve. Sure this makes killing slower, but they still kill at reasonable speed and pretty much live through anything. Should that be nerfed? No. Why? Because it is pve. If you like that ability, then roll a tank.

Nanny state players like yourself are a cancer on this game. Instead of saying 'omg, this is OP.......so I will roll that XXX build too!', you cry foul and say 'I want no one else to play a build / style that I don't like'. Don't think so. Sorry. Grow up and stop being a man child.

leave PVP to balance PVP, and leave PVE well enough alone.

what are you even rambling about. somehow you tunr tis to be about me. typical forum argument.

Its very simple. with a 20 second durating in pve sorcs just pop it and dont have to worry until they get hit. so they can keep up a full defense while going offensive rather then timeing shileds for dmage and having situational awarness. sure the shileld will evaporate, but you have just mitigated 20k damage without doing anything but popping a ward every 20 seconds. while everyone else will get hit with that damage, your shield takes it. You dont have to react to the damage. you dont have to worry about it when at a 20 second duration. At a low duration it forces you to chosse what to do in your roatation. more damage or added defenses, but not both. it makes you have to be more situationally aware and time shileds or lose damage putting htme in a rotation. that sir is called balance.

why you brought up pvp and attacking sorcs stam pool idk even know. durations is not an issue in pvp. before nerf or after nerf the only change the duration did in pvp was makeing shield stacking less viable unless going full defense (which is good) and having shields up while riding to stop ganking. Outside of that, whether the duration was 20 or 6 seconds really does not matter despite what many people seem to think. Against any competent player a sorc was refreshing their shields inside of 6 seconds anyway.

idk even understand your last remark???? are you saying that people should not say when something is op but run that op build??? how does that even make sense???

Tapio75

Leys just face it, sorcerers still have nothing to worry about, just have to cast that damage shield more often but because the shield streth is still the same, it lasts forever that way, just have to be more careful with resources but this is also just a minor drawback as one can still stay offensive and defensive at the same time and if you have read any books and played many games, you do know that in most fantasy worlds, this is exactly mage types should play, since cloth not armore, they use shields to keep them safe while they slaughter their enemies.

Fantasy aside, i dont see how sorcerers have it all or had it all? All classes basically have access to similar arsenal of shields and offensive abilities, they are just named differently and work slightly different but none the less, every class has access to some sort of major ward, major evasion and damage shield.

The short duration is just an annoying quality of life remover but it certainly do not make any class, even sorch to worry any more about anything. I have recently played my magicka sorc quite a bit and i CAN use damage shiel and major ward at the same time and top of that, use offensive spells, it is just extremely annoying that i have to push that shield button all the time, break the enjoyable flow of combat.

Tapio75

@bowmanz607
Short duration does not make damage shield any way situational or make ones play reactive.

One simply casts the shield sooner than before, just before attacking something, the adds the shield in each rotation sequence along with being still fully offensive.

All the short duration does, is break the flow of combat and is extreme annoyance to add that button press in each rotation since this is how cloth wearing mage should work. Longer duration only makes life a bit more enjoyable as you dont have to be constantly rtecasting the shield.

bowmanz607

Tapio75 wrote: »

@bowmanz607
Short duration does not make damage shield any way situational or make ones play reactive.

One simply casts the shield sooner than before, just before attacking something, the adds the shield in each rotation sequence along with being still fully offensive.

All the short duration does, is break the flow of combat and is extreme annoyance to add that button press in each rotation since this is how cloth wearing mage should work. Longer duration only makes life a bit more enjoyable as you dont have to be constantly rtecasting the shield.

If you don't have to cast it in every rotation that increases dps bottom line. It's more then quality of life.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Tapio75 wrote: »

@Lynx7386

I imagine it can be a bit stressful on resource management as well?

This to me is really the issue. If you're going to use a shield rotationally your Magicka is going to PLUMMET.

Either the resource cost needs to be reduced or the duration needs to be extended. I personally thing the former is the better way to go, but an extra 2 seconds of duration (8s total) would be sensible, IMHO.

hmsdragonfly

@Tapio75
You didn't answer my question. By PvE, you mean questing, normal dungeons, vet dungeons, normal trials, vet trials, vMA, or just killing mudcrabs?