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Please fix crown gems!

Zhaedri
Zhaedri
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Overall i really enjoy the Crown Crates. The mixture of new items, plus old items that are no longer available through the crown store is really nice. For me, the drop rates seem OK as well (though several crates now and no 'apex' reward; alas!)

There is one problem though.

When you get repeat items, or an item you already have, you get gems instead. That's cool! What ISN'T cool though is that the amount doesn't give you enough to pick a prize of the same rarity/level as what you just won, or even the level/rarity of the one beneath! For those of us that have purchased the item re got a duplicate of, this can be very frustrating, and leads to heavy feelings of bitterness/buyers remorse/feeling ripped off. I'm sure that's not the experience you want your users to experience!

Here's an example that happened to me:

Open a crate, get dealt a 4 card set of prizes. One of them is the Doom Wolf (yay!), however I -already have- the Doom Wolf, as I purchased it when it was in the crown store for the very short time it was available. So I get 33 gems. If I were to purchase the Doom Wolf with gems, it would cost 100. With those 33 gems, I cannot purchase an item of the tier below (40 gems) either. Not cool! When I realized this, I felt rather ripped off, and even kind of 'punished' for having purchased the Doom Wolf (what was it, 4000 crowns? it was a significantly large amount) before. It really turned me off of getting crown crates again, knowing that having directly bought several crown store items before is being punished. From speaking with other players in game, this seems to be a common place of issue.

So, let's solve this.

I see several solutions to this that would still result in a positive player experience, and maintain the random-grab-bag crown crate experience, as well as several very bad solutions. I'm listing them from best to worst.

1) I think this one is best. When a player receives a duplicate item (costume, mount, etc), they receive the same amount of gems as it costs to buy something of the level of the duplicate item they received (so getting a duplicate 16 crown hat would give 16 gems, a duplicate apex reward would give 400 gems, etc). The consumables can stay the same, really. This allows players to not feel punished for previously purchasing items through the crown store, or ripped off if they keep pulling duplicate items. Positive feelings = more crate sales.

2) This one still maintains the random component: When a duplicate item is received, the player has the choice of 'rerolling' for a guaranteed random item of that tier of rarity. This solution is if you really have an issue with player choice and want to make sure it's all 'random draw'. You could offer them half that tiers value in gems as well, in case someone has already filled out everything available of that tier/rarity level.

3) This one is similar to the one above, but also has its own problems: Players never receive duplicate items. Instead they will always get something they have not had before. Players receive half the amount of gems (200 for apex, for instance) only if they have received everything of that rarity level. Consumables (crown soul gems, crown potions and meals, mimic stones, crown poisons, crown experience scrolls) can still be exchanged for gems at the current rate. Problems in this one may result from tweaking the drop rates to be more heavy towards consumables, and the items becoming 'too rare' for people to want to try for.

4) This one is ok, but doesn't really solve the issue: Reduce Crown Crate costs by half, effectively allowing the purchase of twice the amount of crates for the same amount of crowns. Leave the drop rates alone. Adjust gem extraction to give 1/2 (instead of 1/3) of gems for items. This is really not an ideal choice.

5) (Sad Solution) Allow crown gems to be purchased directly with crowns. Say, 5 crowns to 1 gem. Allow gems to be traded for crowns as well - 1 gem to five crowns. Allow duplicate items to be actual items (containers that grant the item within) that can be bought/sold/traded for in game gold. This will wreck player economy. Don't do this one.

6) (Other Sad Solution) Remove Crown Crates entirely. Put everything that would be in them up for direct sale in the Crown Store at reasonable prices. Occasionally put the old items back in the crown store to appeal to new players or people that didn't get it before. Reasonable prices: 300 for a hat/hairstyle, 500 for a super special hat/hairstyle or a costume, 750 for a super special costume, 300 for a transform/aura, 400-750 for non-combat pet, 1000-2000 for a mount. This solution totally defeats the point of the 'grab bag' type Crown Crates. This one is super lame. Don't do this one.

Thanks for reading this. I really hope you consider changing the crown gem system to be more friendly to players... after all, if we didn't want to support you as a company, and ESO as a game, we wouldn't subscribe to ESO+ or buy Crown stuff at all. Please make it a very positive experience for both repeat and new customers to support you!

~Z
@Zhaedri PC NA

  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    I'm with you on this one. I think that if you get a duplicate it should give you the exact amount of gems to buy another item of that tier and your idea of at least getting another random roll at that tier is ok as well. I believe it used to be 1/4 but ZOS was nice enough to raise it to 1/3 before live release. It really does feel punishing to get a duplicate and only receive a third of that reward tier because you were a good customer in the past and bought this already, kinda like you aren't good enough for this tier. Sorry about your bad luck.

    When you get your first few duplicates per season, it's slightly annoying for sure, but it gets worse as you buy more crates. If you're a big spender (which ZOS should be encouraging I suppose) then you'll eventually fill out the first one or two tiers. At that point, the majority of crates you buy will only be awarding gems. You will be unlikely to see any new unique loot unless you're lucky enough for the top tiers. Every crate is 1/3rd as rewarding as it was near the start. You start to see diminishing returns as you unlock more rewards and receive less bang for your buck. It just feels backwards to me, but I'm under the impression that ZOS is hoping those that buy massive amounts of crates aren't very good at math.
    Edited by redspecter23 on March 6, 2017 7:48AM
  • mrfrontman
    mrfrontman
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    RNG is crap in crown crates. Don't bother with them, please stop supporting this scam.
  • Mercutio
    Mercutio
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    Great post.

    I would be truly happy if they changed just one thing: either give 400 crowns for a top-tier mount duplicate or allow one to be picked. At the very least, give a different, random top-tier mount.

    I suspect that most of their customers are buying Crown Crates with the mounts in mind, and their current system is stingy imo.
    The problem with arguing with a jackass is that they never stop braying.
    *
    #DwemerLife
  • Bleakraven
    Bleakraven
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    I just wish I could choose not to redeem something and turn it into gems instead.
    I'm not interested at all in the top tier flashy mounts, so I'd rather turn them into gems than receive them.
  • Zhaedri
    Zhaedri
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    mrfrontman wrote: »
    RNG is crap in crown crates. Don't bother with them, please stop supporting this scam.
    When you get your first few duplicates per season, it's slightly annoying for sure, but it gets worse as you buy more crates. If you're a big spender (which ZOS should be encouraging I suppose) then you'll eventually fill out the first one or two tiers. At that point, the majority of crates you buy will only be awarding gems. You will be unlikely to see any new unique loot unless you're lucky enough for the top tiers. Every crate is 1/3rd as rewarding as it was near the start. You start to see diminishing returns as you unlock more rewards and receive less bang for your buck. It just feels backwards to me, but I'm under the impression that ZOS is hoping those that buy massive amounts of crates aren't very good at math.

    If they fix the issues around the crown crates they won't nearly be so 'scammy'. The biggest issue I see with them is related to the crown gems. As it is, even if I pull doom wolf duplicates six times, I still won't have enough gems to get an apex reward, and that seems incredibly wrong.

    If all they did was change the amount of gems for duplicates/extracted, and left the RNG alone, the crates would become much more friendly to players and definitely less punitive to previous good customers. It might make getting duplicates OK as they would be decent gems to put towards the item you really want... you know, instead of the insult it is now. That would encourage more sales.

    Also, I do like the concept behind the crown crates. A 'grab bag' of items both new and old around a theme, with a small amount of items overall to have a chance of getting. Reminds me a bit of those candy and prize grab bags the general store would do up now and again when I was a lil kidlet growing up in the village (damn I feel old now.) The candy just needs to be better in these ones.

    400 crowns a crate (roughly $4 in real world money), it had better be a good experience for those that purchase them. People don't like feeling bad about spending their money.

    ~Z


    @Zhaedri PC NA

  • Danikat
    Danikat
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    I agree that this would make the crates much better, but I think that's exactly why it will never happen. If you got enough gems to buy another item of the same value anyone who is aiming for a specific item would need to buy far less crates to get it, and that's a bad deal for ZOS.
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • Zhaedri
    Zhaedri
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    Danikat wrote: »
    I agree that this would make the crates much better, but I think that's exactly why it will never happen. If you got enough gems to buy another item of the same value anyone who is aiming for a specific item would need to buy far less crates to get it, and that's a bad deal for ZOS.

    I would argue that a system that makes previous good customers have a sour taste in their mouth and call the crown crates a scam for being punitive to them causes more issues than the possibility of the players getting what they want out of the crates.

    Personally, I feel gypped regarding the gems from my doom wolf example above, and haven't bought any crates since. And I won't until they at least address this issue or fix it. I'd really like to get more crown crates, but if I'm getting cheated for being a good customer before when getting them... why bother set myself up for insult?

    What's the reasoning behind only giving 1/3 the gems back from a duplicate item? How is it not punishing previous good customers that bought those items direct for however much they were?

    Before the SWTOR cartel coin/cartel crate system went super south, i was spending $100-$150 a month on that game including subscription. Until they proved they don't care about making players happy with their lottery items (drop rates, cost, quality of items, 'chance cubes', too many low-quality items, etc). I stopped giving them money because it was no longer fun to do so.

    A system that both makes players happy, and gives money to the game company is a good thing. Making your players unhappy with giving you money is not a recipe for success. Alienate your players with punitive systems regarding their money, and you will also alienate their wallets.

    As a note I -want- to support the game company; I love ESO. Make it a positive experience every time I give money, and the green will flow. Not just from me, I assure you.

    ~Z
    Edited by Zhaedri on March 7, 2017 11:40PM
    @Zhaedri PC NA

  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    Personally in my opinion, I can think of a way better solution:

    Buy a crown crate for the original price in the crown store, there is the chance of a fifth item (this is already implemented) but receiving a duplicate item will instead grant crown gems equivalent to 50-75% of its crown gem price on the list, but opening crown crates "could" potentially increase the chances of receiving a high quality item that is not yet claimed which resets the chances upon receiving a legendary or apex tier reward. Making for a slightly better experience with each box.

    Side note: developers need money in order to get certain technological resources needed along with several other key variations to maintain the integrity of ESOTU as well as providing awesome content like what they did with the thieves guild, Dark brotherhood, Imperial city & the Orsinium DLC's. need I remind you folks that without us providing positive feedback, they wouldn't be making this game as awesome as it is to this very day, not to mention with every purchase made, it has helped them improve this game to become something we can all enjoy, something that gives us a means of being ourselves in terms of roleplay. & not only that, it provides us with hours upon hours of entertainment, strategic dungeon delving, bringing people together.

    Come to think of it, isn't it a good way to bring people together as a community? (Like this one for instance!)
    If you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...

    If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.
  • kriegernight
    kriegernight
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    I too have complaints about the new way ESO /ZeniMax is modeling there game play From Crown Crates to the absurdness added in the new homestead update

    a link to my post is below

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/324766/this-is-a-concern-toward-the-future-of-game-play-under-the-new-construct-models#latest
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