This is a concern toward the future of game play under the new construct models

kriegernight

I wanted to keep this internal toward zeno and bethesda but was instructed to post it here:

---

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---

To whom it may concern,
 
As an avid ESO player and Plus member I would like to take the time to voice a complaint about the new homestead model in hopes it will be fixed so not to fail. Especially with the upcoming Morrowind release. You do not want to have users with a bad taste in their mouth over this.
Let me explain the current model the way many people on many boards have been seeing this as well as myself
 
You buy a house: Millions of gold and/or so far up to $100 real time Cash. If you choose the furnished units, you can get a cookie cutter model and then spend more to replace items and selling items at a loss
If you buy an unfurnished house, you can start from scratch and hunt down all the merchants buying generic completed items as you find a merchant who has what you want ++++Gold/Crowns
 
Now the Option to build the items is available but you now have to scour the world for worthwhile templates and materials. Which the drop rate is very low and very random. Making it hard to become a seller of furniture or even decorating the lavish manor you just bought.
 
The expectation also adds after spending $100 Real cash in feb for a manor (or an island when it gets released) plus more cash for some in home essentials from the get go; you than want another $100 for the new Morrowind expansion a few months later.
 
Now that the basics of the model is shown and what is being spread around like wildfire I would like to tell you why I play ESO, Why I started, and what I am aiming for. As I am not the only person who plays the way I play.
I play ESO because it’s an inexpensive fun way to pass time without going out to a bar or spending excessive amounts of money. It provides a stress free escape to a fun world where you can choose to do your own thing or interact with other players
I started because all I had to do was buy the game and pay for my yearly PS Network. Soon after I decided I wanted to support the game and creators so I also have the per month ESO+ Membership which the perks are amazing
My main character aspiration is to be a Master crafter. To Date I have bought into many in game items to make that a reality. I do this because, one I want to speed up my character development, but also because I want to support the game creators and platform.
 
If you have time to research my previous emails I have sent in, you will know I have been playing Elder scrolls since arena.
The new model you are going after is sure to lose my interest, and if an avid Elder Scrolls player like me is willing to leave; I’m sure I’m just one of many who will.
 
 
From the beginning, the first thing that bothered me but became something I could deal with was the way researching worked in game. It was backward. Every time you research something it should get easier and easier to learn not the opposite. No big deal just an achievement quark and let it go.
 
I happily continued to play with no real complaints until another issue surfaced (a problem that already left a bad taste in many people’s mouths). Back in December you came out with this new Crates system. You keep buying into crates for a chance to get an item you actually want. When you don’t get it you’re stuck with whatever you get no matter what. You can’t sell it back you just have something you don’t want and you paid for it. Only if you get certain items (mainly items you can get from any crown crate) can be sold back for Crown Gems to put toward an item you want. Also if you get the same item you didn’t want and are forced to keep you than get gems back for that as well. But for a gem to real cash ratio loss. So your now spending $100+ so you can get the item you actually want instead of just having the option of buying them outright. I decided to try it a few times although it already made me a bit angry that this little scam was in play. Fine I finally decided I could care less about the special crates portion and just continue with the game and being mad that I won’t get to have the items I really wanted.
 
Amazing announcement than follows Homes are going to now be available and be customizable with an option to utilize your crafting expertise and plus much much more. That announcement made me very happy. It was going to be a progression of my character, a new way to earn in game gold, and a new way to use the crafting abilities that I took the time to level up and master. NO. The Money and time ti took me to get all my motifs and leveling up to master status has no bearing on my ability to make a chair. An ability in real life I can do quite easily. I now have to: One – Buy the basics for real money in the crown store. Two – Buy the basics running through all of Tamriel and looking for the different things merchants sell. Or Three – scour for days of grinding to find designs than more mining to get the an all-time low drop for the materials needed to make the items. Making my master craftsman useless. However still it doesn’t stop there. The items used to make ites from normal -> fine -> surperior ->legendary  are the same as the ones used in the the main crafting skill and are rare enough as it is to get enough for them now if we get the right design matrix, and get all the resources we need for furniture crafting we now have to use up the rare drops we get to upgrade the quality
 
In a few days the Spring Crates are coming out and will require a ton of real money again in order to get what you want out of them and then soon after you’re going to be asking for another 100 to expand the game this summer.
 
This went from a fun relaxing game to something that is frustrating and money hungry.
 
You need to make accommodations for those who already took the time to create a master craftsman
You have to make accommodations for the materials used and the time spent trying to make a chair
Many skilled works put a lot of time into making this game beautiful, fun and enticing. The last thing you want is an epic flop. I can understand those people need to get paid for their work and all these tactics help, but you are literally selling databits for hundreds of real dollars and with it its very unbalanced.

Your pushing the bottom line$ and taking the fun the fun from the game w/o even disguising it.
 
As for how I think the crafting should be here it goes (based on the fact you gave everyone the ability to make shirts, armor and swords from the get go but can’t figure out how to make a chair or table.)Everyone should have basic knowledge of creating basic styles furniture based on there race. Any styles that could be found or bought outright should have a book called “Lost Chapters” that can just as easily found or purchased for a reduced crown cost. At the same time mining for raw materials needs to have equal chances based on quality as any resource drop is. I have tons of ideas in how this can be fixed but the current direction will alienate the game.
 
When you look at my account, you will find I already have purchased the crowns to begin whether or not that is the last of the money you see from me in any elder scrolls game is up to the decisions you make. FYI if day one made “ME” this upset I won’t be the only one.
 
~Guy

davey1107

To Guy:
From: someone totally not on the customer service team

If you don't like the housing game, go stuff it...into your achievements list for another day. Because frankly, your complaining is just a bunch of nonsense noise.

I was able to purchase a house on day one without spending a single real world dollar. It's a medium sized home, and the in-game gold cost was equivalent to roughly a month's gold rewards from my writs. If that's too much, there are a dozen homes that cost as much as you'd get from winning and selling off just TWO TEMPERING ALLOYS. A lot of these houses are dang cheap. The Baandari house is almost a replica of the Queen's Marbruck house...it costs as much as you'd get selling a few day's writ reward gold mats.

I started farming urns and doing daily writs. I've spent maybe 90 minutes a day for four days doing this with a friend. In that time I have found one purple furnishing plan, maybe fifteen blues and thirty greens. I have over a hundred each of the rare mats. I've won enough master crafting writs to accumulate 200 writ vouchers (although I'm selling the writs right now). These are VERY HIGH drop rates. If I wanted, I could have crafted a dozen items for my house already...not to mention the 10-20 landscaping and other items I've put in for under 5,000 gold. None of this cost a single real world dollar.

So what's your complaint? If ZOS were as greedy as you claim, they'd have made houses a crown-only purchase. But they didn't. They gave you an option to obtain and decorate your house for FREE, or to spend fifty bucks if you want to speed things up. And they let you buy as many homes as you like, and there's no maintenance fees (which other MMOs have).

If you don't like housing, then don't play it. But stop the asinine whining and idle threats. You're not going to leave ESO because you don't like the housing system...you just want to gripe. And that's annoying, because ZOS clearly worked really hard to add a wide variety of houses to the game that players can work at making elegant, absurd, horrific or fantastical. If you disagree, go fight draugr in a dungeon somewhere - no one is forcing you to play homesteading. But stop trying to ruin everyone else's good time with your smelly attitude, lol.

Jim_Pipp

I think you should be thanked for taking the time to write to zos, because obviously you are doing it for their benefit, because you (and I and many long term fans of the elderscrolls) want this to be a successful game that lives up to the franchise, even though we worry it won't. I'm sure you know that you haven't said anything that other people on the forums haven't said before. I think the thing that is implicit but unsaid in your letter is the feeling of investment we have with eso, but how that isn't recognised by zos.

While zos made eso, they made it for us, the players. Without both zos and the players eso will cease to be, the players are just as essential as zos to the longevity of the game, but it feels like the needs of zos are prioritised over the players. I don't mean to say zos needs to cater to every individual player, any more than I would say that any one member of staff is the whole of zos, but I do think that zos as a whole needs to be influenced by the shared concerns of longterm players.

Anyway, I meant to just praise the op and I am ranting!

kriegernight

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I think you should be thanked for taking the time to write to zos, because obviously you are doing it for their benefit, because you (and I and many long term fans of the elderscrolls) want this to be a successful game that lives up to the franchise, even though we worry it won't. I'm sure you know that you haven't said anything that other people on the forums haven't said before. I think the thing that is implicit but unsaid in your letter is the feeling of investment we have with eso, but how that isn't recognised by zos.

While zos made eso, they made it for us, the players. Without both zos and the players eso will cease to be, the players are just as essential as zos to the longevity of the game, but it feels like the needs of zos are prioritised over the players. I don't mean to say zos needs to cater to every individual player, any more than I would say that any one member of staff is the whole of zos, but I do think that zos as a whole needs to be influenced by the shared concerns of longterm players.

Anyway, I meant to just praise the op and I am ranting!

Thanks Jim_Pipp,

You took the time to fully read what I was saying and it is much appreciated

kriegernight

davey1107 wrote: »

To Guy:
From: someone totally not on the customer service team

If you don't like the housing game, go stuff it...into your achievements list for another day. Because frankly, your complaining is just a bunch of nonsense noise.

I was able to purchase a house on day one without spending a single real world dollar. It's a medium sized home, and the in-game gold cost was equivalent to roughly a month's gold rewards from my writs. If that's too much, there are a dozen homes that cost as much as you'd get from winning and selling off just TWO TEMPERING ALLOYS. A lot of these houses are dang cheap. The Baandari house is almost a replica of the Queen's Marbruck house...it costs as much as you'd get selling a few day's writ reward gold mats.

I started farming urns and doing daily writs. I've spent maybe 90 minutes a day for four days doing this with a friend. In that time I have found one purple furnishing plan, maybe fifteen blues and thirty greens. I have over a hundred each of the rare mats. I've won enough master crafting writs to accumulate 200 writ vouchers (although I'm selling the writs right now). These are VERY HIGH drop rates. If I wanted, I could have crafted a dozen items for my house already...not to mention the 10-20 landscaping and other items I've put in for under 5,000 gold. None of this cost a single real world dollar.

So what's your complaint? If ZOS were as greedy as you claim, they'd have made houses a crown-only purchase. But they didn't. They gave you an option to obtain and decorate your house for FREE, or to spend fifty bucks if you want to speed things up. And they let you buy as many homes as you like, and there's no maintenance fees (which other MMOs have).

If you don't like housing, then don't play it. But stop the asinine whining and idle threats. You're not going to leave ESO because you don't like the housing system...you just want to gripe. And that's annoying, because ZOS clearly worked really hard to add a wide variety of houses to the game that players can work at making elegant, absurd, horrific or fantastical. If you disagree, go fight draugr in a dungeon somewhere - no one is forcing you to play homesteading. But stop trying to ruin everyone else's good time with your smelly attitude, lol.

davey1107

I apologize if you are seeing this as just a major complaint from someone who is ungrateful for the greatness of the game. I would like you to understand I am not against the fact that there are specialty items that have designs that need to be acquired for the game to the means in which to create those specialty items. Now I know you can win a small room for free, actually 3 of them, in the new update which honestly is a good way to promote the interests of not only the update but for future expansions. In this light I can agree that they made the best decision. However when making a major game changer the ability to be able to create certain items needs to be available. When the game starts each person has the ability to construct there own armor and weapons, granted only in there native style, which makes the game pretty cool. You are not a slave to merchants.

As a person who grew up in a real life family of seamstresses, carpenters and more I can tell you it is much harder to sew a garment from a pattern and selecting the correct threads and linings than it is to build a bench or a table. Which is why i made the suggestion that a base level of household items made from the common supplier drops was made. You an build simple racial furnitures from those common items. Followed I made the suggestions where they could sell for crowns or make a drop companion book for the other racial motifs called lost chapters. this way it can compliment racial motifs you have already found or purchased previously. Giving back to the players of the game and to help continue the interests in the specific areas.

My worry by making the materials much harder to mine for than the common materials as well as limiting the constructs it will cause people to get fustrated and give up on the game. This obviously is not a concern to you, but as someone who loves the game series I do have a concern about making "the bottom line" a higher priority than the fun of the game.

I was told by my parents than further on by employers. never complain unless you can provide a solution that works for everyone. All I did was my part to state my concern as well as well as what I believe would be an alleviating solution with my personal stand on the game and where as a customer I may go from here.

Thank you for you for your input and the time to state your piece on my comment.

~Guy

t3hdubzy

Great post, valid concerns in my opinion.

Stopnaggin

Awsome post, very well thought out and stated. Don't mind the other guy, those always appear no matter what. I agree and have stated as much, researching is backwards. Should start with longer times then go lower.

I did purchase manor, unfurnished, and it will take time to decorate. I don't mind aquiring the blueprints and stuff. What irks me is the new materials. I'm ok with decorative wax, mundane runes and alchemical resin. What I didn't like was the base materials. I should be able to craft with the in game materials. If I want and Orc pot, why not use orc materials.

I'm not going to touch on crown crates much as they are too sore a subject in the forums. Personally they don't bother me.

Reivax

I agree with you. Making simple tables, chairs, shelves, beds, etc should have been available right out of the gate, and made from base raw materials that we already have a ton of. Then you could have made the chase about finding more rare decorations and furniture that use the harder to find and more rare ingredients. That seems like the more productive way of doing it. And offer the rarer materials and/or furnishings in the crown store, too.

I have put in a fair amount of hours since Homestead came out, and those hours are pve questing and scouring the countryside. I still do not have triple-digits of bast, clean leather, heartwood or regulus. And I open every single thing I find, and steal anything I can mouse-over.

What I have not spent much time doing is actually decorating the places I bought. I was able to make a bed, a table, some chairs and then... I'm out of heartwood.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Davey1107 wrote:

I have over a hundred each of the rare mats. I've won enough master crafting writs to accumulate 200 writ vouchers (although I'm selling the writs right now). These are VERY HIGH drop rates.

I think you are in the huge minority here, no one I know has HUNDREDS of the new mats and there are countless threads both here and on Reddit about the drop rates on MW. Just because its YOUR experience doesn't mean that's everyone's experience.

Stopnaggin

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Davey1107 wrote:

I have over a hundred each of the rare mats. I've won enough master crafting writs to accumulate 200 writ vouchers (although I'm selling the writs right now). These are VERY HIGH drop rates.

I think you are in the huge minority here, no one I know has HUNDREDS of the new mats and there are countless threads both here and on Reddit about the drop rates on MW. Just because its YOUR experience doesn't mean that's everyone's experience.

The mats drop fine for me as well, no mater what toon I use. The writs on the other hand have been totally hit and miss. My lower level crafters get a lot of writs, albeit low voucher. My master crafter has only seen 1 worth 7 vouchers.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

I love this. I wish I had more I could add but my brain is too tired to have mind blowing epiphanies

SilentQ

Calling carpentry easier than tailoring or cobbling is silly.

I admit that wood, to me, is very easy with which to work. I couldn't make shoes to save my life, but that is because I have done it all of my life. My father taught me most of what I know.

At the same time, I know people who can sew, but don't know how to swing a hammer to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture if their life depended on it.

There is an art to everything, even hand-planing. It is very possible to quickly destroy your work if you do something as simple as sanding, incorrectly.

Housing was made for a time/gold sink for players who complain they have done everything and have so much gold that they could buy Nirn if it were up for sale.

That is all it is. Take your time or spend your gold. Judging by your long post, it is working EXACTLY as it was intended.

kriegernight

SilentQ wrote: »

Calling carpentry easier than tailoring or cobbling is silly.

I admit that wood, to me, is very easy with which to work. I couldn't make shoes to save my life, but that is because I have done it all of my life. My father taught me most of what I know.

At the same time, I know people who can sew, but don't know how to swing a hammer to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture if their life depended on it.

There is an art to everything, even hand-planing. It is very possible to quickly destroy your work if you do something as simple as sanding, incorrectly.

Housing was made for a time/gold sink for players who complain they have done everything and have so much gold that they could buy Nirn if it were up for sale.

That is all it is. Take your time or spend your gold. Judging by your long post, it is working EXACTLY as it was intended.

This falls under the category of misreading what I wrote. I understand where you are coming, I grew up doing both carpentry work and construction with my dad from 10 til I finishing college. I definitely do not think one is easier than the other; In fact in there own ways there skill levels are evenly matched. What I was saying is at the start of ESO you have the ability to craft entire outfits in a style but with the launch of homestead you don't have the ability to build a simple chair from the start. I'm sorry it is easier to build a simple chair (no fancy artwork required) than an entire 7 piece outfit complete with cobbled shoes and weapon.

I hope you have a better understanding of what i was attempting to say.

~Guy

Wreuntzylla

kriegernight wrote: »

Now the Option to build the items is available but you now have to scour the world for worthwhile templates and materials. Which the drop rate is very low and very random. Making it hard to become a seller of furniture or even decorating the lavish manor you just bought.

 
~Guy

Knowledge is power.

Just a friendly note on how MMO's work and how to get where you want to be without too much of a grind. Before you read this, I'll admit up front that I stopped reading about halfway through your post due to time constraints.

The trick to efficient [fill in the blank] is knowing mechanics and information about how ZoS allocates drop rates, etc. Scour the forums. Start threads for people to throw in their discoveries. An hour of research on this forum alone will save you innumerable hours in-game.

If you are a devoted crafter you should have been able to accumulate a number of vouchers. I am fairly unlucky and have completed over 60 master writs for maybe 500-600 vouchers. Some people are over a thousand vouchers with a single maxed crafter and maybe 20 master writs due to receiving 200-300 voucher writs. My top writ was 168 vouchers. For most dedicated crafters with one maxed toon, you should easily be over 200 by now. My sympathy to those with less luck than I have. RNG does indeed suck for the 1% on the tail of the distribution, who I think make up the bulk of the posters on the forum.

The NPC where you turn in the master writ quests sells something with Hlallu in the name. For 10 vouchers you receive a purple furniture recipe. I have probably spent 200 vouchers on those and only received a repeat once. If I did not get a recipe I wanted, I traded for it, bought it from a guild trader using writ gold, or by selling furniture after acquiring the recipes. Someone in another thread has said that he has found over 12 purple recipes looting containers in Old Orsinium while looking for motifs and without being overly grindy.

I prioritized my purchases based on a basic knowledge of MMOs. Everything makes huge amounts of gold when first introduced. Further, the newest motifs don't count towards master writs. So I have not purchased any of the motifs off the voucher merchant yet and focused on recipes to sell furniture (and initially both types of target skelly recipes which was my main motivation).

As far as mat farming, for furnishing your own house, 5-6 hours in Hew's Bane on off hours will get you more than enough to furnish everything but a notable. No hyperbole, that place has a node every 5-10m or so, and there is a pretty even distribution. There is one location that has 7-8 rubedite nodes in 200-300m with about a 5min repop rate, and there is a circuit you can run for bast or heartwood. I don't think that's grindy, and if you sell furniture, the reward right now is correlated to the grind. Last piece I sold was a canopy bed for 20k, and prices have dropped considerably. Same with recipes.

Bottom line, aside from amassing gold to buy expensive houses, its not so grindy. You just need to read through these forums and maybe reddit to see how to minimize the time sink and get to where you want. For example, did you know hoarvors drop deco wax at a rate that is better than looting containers? Or that sheep used to level legerdemain drop clean pelts? These are the kind of tips that cut an otherwise terrible grind to not much of a grind. I play maybe 10-14 hours over the course of a week and have had no problems.

Finally, there is a secondary market that is making tons of gold usable to buy what you want even if you aren't a crafter at all. The best example is for the bosmer style (bone). A target skelly uses over 200 bone, and bone became so scarce that I think the price is now at 500g for 1... People are going to the bosmer zones and farming gear to decon for bone, selling it and then buying whatever they need. Nirnroot is another good example that is easy enough to farm (run the western most lake in Craglorn and get maybe 5-7 per circuit).

Anyways, I hope this helps you going forward and with MMOs in general.

kriegernight

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

kriegernight wrote: »

Now the Option to build the items is available but you now have to scour the world for worthwhile templates and materials. Which the drop rate is very low and very random. Making it hard to become a seller of furniture or even decorating the lavish manor you just bought.

 
~Guy

Knowledge is power.

Just a friendly note on how MMO's work and how to get where you want to be without too much of a grind. Before you read this, I'll admit up front that I stopped reading about halfway through your post due to time constraints.

The trick to efficient [fill in the blank] is knowing mechanics and information about how ZoS allocates drop rates, etc. Scour the forums. Start threads for people to throw in their discoveries. An hour of research on this forum alone will save you innumerable hours in-game.

If you are a devoted crafter you should have been able to accumulate a number of vouchers. I am fairly unlucky and have completed over 60 master writs for maybe 500-600 vouchers. Some people are over a thousand vouchers with a single maxed crafter and maybe 20 master writs due to receiving 200-300 voucher writs. My top writ was 168 vouchers. For most dedicated crafters with one maxed toon, you should easily be over 200 by now. My sympathy to those with less luck than I have. RNG does indeed suck for the 1% on the tail of the distribution, who I think make up the bulk of the posters on the forum.

The NPC where you turn in the master writ quests sells something with Hlallu in the name. For 10 vouchers you receive a purple furniture recipe. I have probably spent 200 vouchers on those and only received a repeat once. If I did not get a recipe I wanted, I traded for it, bought it from a guild trader using writ gold, or by selling furniture after acquiring the recipes. Someone in another thread has said that he has found over 12 purple recipes looting containers in Old Orsinium while looking for motifs and without being overly grindy.

I prioritized my purchases based on a basic knowledge of MMOs. Everything makes huge amounts of gold when first introduced. Further, the newest motifs don't count towards master writs. So I have not purchased any of the motifs off the voucher merchant yet and focused on recipes to sell furniture (and initially both types of target skelly recipes which was my main motivation).

As far as mat farming, for furnishing your own house, 5-6 hours in Hew's Bane on off hours will get you more than enough to furnish everything but a notable. No hyperbole, that place has a node every 5-10m or so, and there is a pretty even distribution. There is one location that has 7-8 rubedite nodes in 200-300m with about a 5min repop rate, and there is a circuit you can run for bast or heartwood. I don't think that's grindy, and if you sell furniture, the reward right now is correlated to the grind. Last piece I sold was a canopy bed for 20k, and prices have dropped considerably. Same with recipes.

Bottom line, aside from amassing gold to buy expensive houses, its not so grindy. You just need to read through these forums and maybe reddit to see how to minimize the time sink and get to where you want. For example, did you know hoarvors drop deco wax at a rate that is better than looting containers? Or that sheep used to level legerdemain drop clean pelts? These are the kind of tips that cut an otherwise terrible grind to not much of a grind. I play maybe 10-14 hours over the course of a week and have had no problems.

Finally, there is a secondary market that is making tons of gold usable to buy what you want even if you aren't a crafter at all. The best example is for the bosmer style (bone). A target skelly uses over 200 bone, and bone became so scarce that I think the price is now at 500g for 1... People are going to the bosmer zones and farming gear to decon for bone, selling it and then buying whatever they need. Nirnroot is another good example that is easy enough to farm (run the western most lake in Craglorn and get maybe 5-7 per circuit).

Anyways, I hope this helps you going forward and with MMOs in general.

Thanks for your response; however without reading what I wrote i am not sure this has to do with my post. As I have read and started working on master writs and collecting vouchers; this is a cool way of getting specialty rewarded items but is not exactly what i am getting at as in having all the basics available in the main styles + motifs

KingMagaw

davey1107 wrote: »

because ZOS clearly worked really hard to add a wide variety of houses to the game

Incorrect. The homes added in Homestead were direct copies of existing houses already in the game so peddle your misinformation somewhere else. Even the limited items players can choose from, is mainly copies from existing structures they have used for nearly 3 years.

Once again, another worthless post blindly supporting Z0$ with information that isn't even factual. Smells like damage limitation to me personally.

KingMagaw

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Knowledge is power.

The best example is for the bosmer style (bone). A target skelly uses over 200 bone, and bone became so scarce that I think the price is now at 500g for 1... People are going to the bosmer zones and farming gear to decon for bone, selling it and then buying whatever they need.

What server is this on please?, because i highly doubt 'Bone' Bosmer crafting style stone is selling for 500g. You can buy it off the NPC vendor for 15 gold each, as many as you want.

Stopnaggin

KingMagaw wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

because ZOS clearly worked really hard to add a wide variety of houses to the game

Incorrect. The homes added in Homestead were direct copies of existing houses already in the game so peddle your misinformation somewhere else. Even the limited items players can choose from, is mainly copies from existing structures they have used for nearly 3 years.

Once again, another worthless post blindly supporting Z0$ with information that isn't even factual. Smells like damage limitation to me personally.

And while they are mainly copies they still had to be made useable, placeable and interactive. It's not misinformation it's an opinion, just like your jab with the dollar sign in Z0$.

Seriously people if there is no value for you anymore move along and stop being that stalker ex. You're not changing anyone's mind, same with the pro ZOS people.

You say another worthless post of misinformation, yet I see no substance to your post either, irony much?

KingMagaw

davey1107 wrote: »

because ZOS clearly worked really hard to add a wide variety of houses to the game

"Add a wide variety of houses to the game"

So which houses did they add to the game exactly?.

You sold this statement as factual and is a gimp move to try and promote Z0$ hard work, which we don't know how hard they worked.

Under the factual information that is known to me, at this time, no 'new' houses were added to the game. Please let us all know the new houses added with Homestead.

______________________________

Stopnaggin wrote: »

And while they are mainly copies

Mainly copies?. Your implying that there was new houses added to the game still?. Which ones?.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

they still had to be made useable, placeable and interactive. It's not misinformation

So you have in-depth knowledge of what Z0$ are coding now? They made houses placeable? (News to me), Interactive (Or is this a reference to using a door, which is a standard in game item used since launch).

Your posts contained misinformation in a blatant bid to be proZ0$. I would rather call it out, than ignore it.

Stopnaggin

KingMagaw wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

because ZOS clearly worked really hard to add a wide variety of houses to the game

"Add a wide variety of houses to the game"

So which houses did they add to the game exactly?.

You sold this statement as factual and is a gimp move to try and promote Z0$ hard work, which we don't know how hard they worked.

Under the factual information that is known to me, at this time, no 'new' houses were added to the game. Please let us all know the new houses added with Homestead.

______________________________

Stopnaggin wrote: »

And while they are mainly copies

Mainly copies?. Your implying that there was new houses added to the game still?. Which ones?.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

they still had to be made useable, placeable and interactive. It's not misinformation

So you have in-depth knowledge of what Z0$ are coding now? They made houses placeable? (News to me), Interactive (Or is this a reference to using a door, which is a standard in game item used since launch).

Your posts contained misinformation in a blatant bid to be proZ0$. I would rather call it out, than ignore it.

Not doors, how about lighting, furniture to actually sit on. I don't remember dagger fall overlook being there before, I don't rember the Khajiit one either. As a matter of fact I don't remember the island retreat or the cave. So yeah they added houses. Hmmmm don't remeber target dummies, or being able to build anything with blocks of stone or wood. I don't recall having a place of my own to have friends over and duel. So while you blindly ignore what has been added and dismiss it as worthless, and then try to use you little dollar sign as some kind of insult, please. You don't see what's been added or choose not to mention it to further your agenda.

I have no idea what went into the coding, do you? Since you seem to imply that it wasn't much. So please enlighten us simple folk with your inside knowledge. You choose to call others blind for an opinion, yet I still see no substance to your argument. All the houses are cookie cutter right? I wonder why a Khajiit house looks like all the other Khajiit houses, same with nord, breton, imperial and so on. Because of racial styling. It would damn sure look funny to have a bosmer home in the middle of stormhold.

But I digress please continue your anti ZOS campaign, never let facts get in the way of a good story right?

KingMagaw

So let us get this straight - You stated Z0$: "Add a wide variety of houses to the game"

But in reality you state they added "Not doors, how about lighting, furniture to actually sit on"

An implication that players couldnt sit on furniture before homestead, which is also incorrect.

The dollar sign is no insult intended by me, so again your incorrect. If you feel insulted by it, that is your problem.

You stated Z0$ worked hard - I stated how do you know they worked hard. You supplied no answer to that.

Anything after that in your reply is mindless spam. You clearly stated misinformation and have yet to state otherwise. I called it..but carry on your posts of misinformation in blind support of Z0$.

Stopnaggin

KingMagaw wrote: »

So let us get this straight - You stated Z0$: "Add a wide variety of houses to the game"

But in reality you state they added "Not doors, how about lighting, furniture to actually sit on"

An implication that players couldnt sit on furniture before homestead, which is also incorrect.

The dollar sign is no insult intended by me, so again your incorrect. If you feel insulted by it, that is your problem.

You stated Z0$ worked hard - I stated how do you know they worked hard. You supplied no answer to that.

Anything after that in your reply is mindless spam. You clearly stated misinformation and have yet to state otherwise. I called it..but carry on your posts of misinformation in blind support of Z0$.

No let's get this straight I never said they added a wide variety of anything, nor any comment on how hard they did or didn't work on anything. I mearly stated that they added houses and interactive objects. Again where are you seeing blind support? I stated factual evidence to oppose your false claims.

You stated all homes were direct copies of in game homes, False while they may be similar some are in fact new, I gave examples above, which got no response.

Interactive objects nope you said they were mostly copies, and while they may have been coded already they were stillad interactive. What chairs could you sit in before homestead, which lights could you turn off and on, which blocks and planks could you build things with? So again I called on your false statement.


So then you have to resort to try and belittle anyone who doesn't share your view's with words like "blind support" and "Z0$". So you can say you mean not to insult but again another false statement. We know what terms like those are intended as. My main question for you is why do you play the game? If it has become such a point of contention for you why do you stick around?

kriegernight

Stopnaggin wrote: »

.

KingMagaw wrote: »

.

No matter what way you spin it work did go into creating and a 20gb of data and textures have been added (at least what the update forced me to download)

Some compensation should be acquired for the work done as it is a company.
-The dev environment which allows you to adjust the furniture and housing items already existed in order to build the game.
-- The work that was done was to shrink it and restrict its capabilities.
-The majority of the furniture we are scurrying about looking for are the same ones that have already existed in game. nothing special to code there once the dev engine was implemented.

New Items , groupings and overall coding has been created Most of it was added to fulfill the new slots where you can craft furniture and how to access the nodes with some finishing touches on the actual houses.

The problem is that the majority of what was added could have been done away with. Using the current resources would make easy work of making simple structures and adding harder to find resources for new or complex structures.

Instead all the work was done to make it feel like a long treasure hunt without having to do much work and frustrate the users with crazy resource demands which will end up making most people spend real coin to get the job done. however ti will make people like me who have done all the work to be a crafter start loosing interest. My work to be level 50 w in all areas (one character) everything its has unlocked and gaines and he is not smart enough to make a table or chair

LadyDestiny

This whole housing bit has been nothing but stressfull. Should have been something fun, but its more like trying to run maw over and over to get that right piece of gear. Its expensive and tiring. Being one who made crafters on seperate characters in the beginning, only researched one type of crafting on each as I needed the skill points for abilities.. Now I am totally screwed and have to research all this stuff over on one character just to get all the vouchers together. Oh not too mention spending a fortune trying to pick up motif pages I still don't have. For some stupid reason they decided style was important for the quality of writ vouchers you get. They should have thought of this and not just catered to people spending all their time just grinding every crafting skill on every character on numerous accounts. I really feel bad for newer players who can't even begin to get a good writ for months. The whole thing has left a bitter taste in my mouth and all my writs will sit in the bank for now. Don't really care. Crafting has taken a dump for some time now.......Zos and their wonderful ideas.

Stopnaggin

LadyDestiny wrote: »

This whole housing bit has been nothing but stressfull. Should have been something fun, but its more like trying to run maw over and over to get that right piece of gear. Its expensive and tiring. Being one who made crafters on seperate characters in the beginning, only researched one type of crafting on each as I needed the skill points for abilities.. Now I am totally screwed and have to research all this stuff over on one character just to get all the vouchers together. Oh not too mention spending a fortune trying to pick up motif pages I still don't have. For some stupid reason they decided style was important for the quality of writ vouchers you get. They should have thought of this and not just catered to people spending all their time just grinding every crafting skill on every character on numerous accounts. I really feel bad for newer players who can't even begin to get a good writ for months. The whole thing has left a bitter taste in my mouth and all my writs will sit in the bank for now. Don't really care. Crafting has taken a dump for some time now.......Zos and their wonderful ideas.

While you may not like how they implemented the system, I have to point out that it rewards those of us who have done all this on one toon. Those of us who did a little research about how crafting worked would have saved you and any future crafters alot of trouble. To me it wouldn't make sense to split my crafts between toon. That's excess time and gold that I wouldn't need to spend to have "A MASTER CRAFTER".

From a time perspective it may seem like a good idea, until you think about what happens when you have to switch toons to craft different pieces.I wouldn't want to switch toons to make light armor and staves for a sorc. Not to mention having to collect motifs for each seperate toon.

Now we have Master Writs. These writs reward those who have put in alot of time, effort and forethought about crafting. I'm proud to be able to say " yep mater crafter, all styles". This took time and gold, not to mention some planning. I made sure to make my crafter Imperial, to have access to that style. I made a spreadsheet to keep track of my trait research and motif knowledge.

So while you say they are punishing you, I say they are rewarding us. As harsh as it may sound there is a saying that covers this, " A lack of planning on your part, doesn't constitute an emergency on mine ". If you look at your own previous statement about having to gather motifs again you can see what I stated above. These are called master writs for a reason, they should have rewards accordingly.

Jayne_Doe

You do have some good points, and I do share some of your frustration with the implementation of the system. I'm on XB, so didn't play on PTS (though I used to play on PC and still have ESO installed on it, but don't have room to download the PTS). However, I did read all the discussion about this system on the PTS board, so I knew exactly what we were getting when it launched.

A lot of your frustration with drop rates for the new mats, as well as the MWs, was mentioned in the PTS feedback. Individual experience seems to be widely varied in terms of the drop rate for MWs. Some have been extremely lucky, while others have not. Until a couple of days ago, my top writ voucher reward was 9. I hit it big a couple days ago with 86! Whoopee!

I do think it's clear that the system is the way it is to strongly encourage purchases in the Crown Store, which is disappointing. However, as an avid ES fan (granted, only since Morrowind) I'm not planning on leaving any time soon. If it's this frustrating for you, then maybe it is time for you to find a new relaxing inexpensive game to play. This is an MMO, after all, so expect to see many more systems designed to generate revenue. Like it or not, this is what we get since it's not a sub model.

Also, in regard to your comment about research. It may seem logical to have research times get shorter, but would you really want to have your very first trait on each piece of gear take an entire month? Then the second at what, 2-3 weeks? You wouldn't get to craft ANY of the set gear until almost 2 months of research time. The way it is now, you can craft 2-trait sets after a day of research.

EDIT: I do share your opinion in regard to not being able to craft basic furniture items from the get-go. I would think that we would at least know how to make some of the white recipe items. It's the same frustration I had with recipes. After the tutorial, I can go directly to an equipment crafting station, and provided I had the mats, I could create a cuirass! But, I cannot go up to a cooking fire and throw in a couple carrots to make a basic soup without first having to find a recipe. Really? I had argued that characters should start out being able to make the level 1 recipes. Anything beyond that should require finding the recipe.

kriegernight

Stopnaggin wrote: »

While you may not like how they implemented the system, I have to point out that it rewards those of us who have done all this on one toon. Those of us who did a little research about how crafting worked would have saved you and any future crafters alot of trouble. To me it wouldn't make sense to split my crafts between toon. That's excess time and gold that I wouldn't need to spend to have "A MASTER CRAFTER".

I have to disagree. I am a master crafter Level 50 in all crafting. 98% all traits discovered, all stones and herbs translated. This does not feel like a reward. Yes I can earn more by vouchers and paying gold. and I do have the ability to craft everything. ut the search to find matching items, or to be able to do some of the basics wo spending all day which I have a full time job, is not truly possible. yet if I pay for everything it is. Not really rewarding to us who worked really hard to make master crafters and struggle getting all the motifs if this is just going to be something completely different with rare drops and low percentage resources

kriegernight

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I do think it's clear that the system is the way it is to strongly encourage purchases in the Crown Store, which is disappointing. However, as an avid ES fan (granted, only since Morrowind) I'm not planning on leaving any time soon. If it's this frustrating for you, then maybe it is time for you to find a new relaxing inexpensive game to play. This is an MMO, after all, so expect to see many more systems designed to generate revenue. Like it or not, this is what we get since it's not a sub model.

the game is still a good game and many people will continue to play. I will probably give up on the game seeing that ZOS is not working with people who have put in a lot of time and work in game and are just coming up with nonsensical derivatives of what is already in game. Things will really need to change if I personally will spend more money. I understand its an MMO. Changing the way the game works from fun to how much money will I have to shell out and how much time during each day I have to loose and where can I find a table to match my chairs... is very frustrating and well an MMO is a game once the game is no longer fun its worthless.

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Also, in regard to your comment about research. It may seem logical to have research times get shorter, but would you really want to have your very first trait on each piece of gear take an entire month? Then the second at what, 2-3 weeks? You wouldn't get to craft ANY of the set gear until almost 2 months of research time. The way it is now, you can craft 2-trait sets after a day of research.

If people are trying to become crafters they will put the time in.. as you get better at crafting the reward is faster times. that still makes more sense than lulling people in. Again.. I take this as a game quark and don't mind especially since I'm done with all that. I still think it should have been reversed

Stopnaggin

kriegernight wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

While you may not like how they implemented the system, I have to point out that it rewards those of us who have done all this on one toon. Those of us who did a little research about how crafting worked would have saved you and any future crafters alot of trouble. To me it wouldn't make sense to split my crafts between toon. That's excess time and gold that I wouldn't need to spend to have "A MASTER CRAFTER".

I have to disagree. I am a master crafter Level 50 in all crafting. 98% all traits discovered, all stones and herbs translated. This does not feel like a reward. Yes I can earn more by vouchers and paying gold. and I do have the ability to craft everything. ut the search to find matching items, or to be able to do some of the basics wo spending all day which I have a full time job, is not truly possible. yet if I pay for everything it is. Not really rewarding to us who worked really hard to make master crafters and struggle getting all the motifs if this is just going to be something completely different with rare drops and low percentage resources

Ok so splitting research helps how? The poster was saying how it's unfair that they split crafting and now their chance of getting mw is low because of it. They even stated having to gather motifs again, while I just pointed out that they would have to have done that anyway depending on how they split their crafting. Now if all ww, bs and clothier are all on one toon the rest is easy. If they split say ww one one and bs on the other the motifs would have to be obtained twice anyway.

Now if we are talking about furniture plans and those associated materials, that's a bit different. I don't like the added basic mats. The mundane runes and decorative wax I can see, but not wood and metal. But as far as mw go I like the way they work.

kriegernight

Stopnaggin wrote: »

I think my post is getting off topic a little and honestly you reminded me what i was really getting at. So thank you.

I am OK with finding random schematics or earning them through quests and vouchers and what not as specialty items.. cause that's pretty cool as a prize. People who have took the time to level a crafting toon over splitting them respectably should have more capabilities. However everyone should be able to be able to build a base set of furniture corresponding to the crafting they chose per toon or at all in at least the style of there main character and any motif Styles they have already learned using base materials. This way the "specialty items" that can be won or purchased are not the only way to get some of the items worked very hard to get.

There are soo many ways this can still be rectified. So many ways for hard working crafters to be rewarded instead of just saying all your work is for nothing start over

Again the Style is pushing away from in game fun to stress as well as promoting Spending a lot of real money to have an ability that should already be there. I see you can buy a bundle of pre-made supplies but you cant buy a bundle of Designs that a user can craft. Even if you did have the designes the rare drop materials needed to build any of it is not easy to come by. Even my Hirelings cant find them

Violynne

@kriegernight

Read your post, but I have to admit, I don't understand any of your points within it, save one. I'm not criticizing it, but it didn't leave me with your belief you're hear to "resolve" ... well, anything.

Let's start off with the issue you have with Researching. It should get easier? Please, enlighten me now any job on the planet gets "easier" when learning new things. I was recently promoted as a manager, and trust me when I say this, it's certainly not easier, nor is it going to be "faster" than anything else in my life.

Think about it this way: threading a needle is "easy". You're a master now! But threading a sewing machine? Not the same. It not only takes time to learn it, but to become a master at it. You'll also spend more time threading the machine than a needle.

The system, as I see it, is fine as it is.

As for your remarks about the store, this reminds me of every other post complaining about it: "I want what I want, and if I can't get it, the game is ruined for me! I quit!"

Sorry, but no. Now granted, I dislike Crown Crates as much as everyone else, but evidence shows people are buying them. I see those mounts everywhere, and it's clear to me ZoS is giving people what they want. I don't intend to participate, because to me, the gamble to acquire what I want is negated by me wanting to keep my real life money more.

I do buy directly from the store using Crowns, but I'm okay with this because ZoS and I both win: they get my money, and I get a new mount I named "YesISpentMoneyForThis".

For housing, I consider this a bonus, not a requirement. The way ZoS implemented it was nicely done. Sure, it's going to be difficult to acquire what you need, but it's not impossible, especially with guilds selling plans. Are you in a guild?

I actually enjoy looking for plans, because I enjoy the surprise when I find something I didn't expect. Yesterday, I found plans for a Khajiit tapestry with moon emblems. I didn't know such a thing existed! I have to say, I was very pleased with this find. I don't think it would have been the same if I found it in the store, but that's just me.

The one point I do agree with you on is having to use tempers for furniture. Low/Mid level characters are going to struggle with this, myself included. I may have tons of plans, but few furniture pieces, because I cannot afford to spend 12 tempers just to build a lamp.

Despite this, I have to come to realize my "dream" home is going to have to remain unfurnished the way I want it for now. I'm okay with this. It literally brings me back to the days I left home for the first time, living on my own and having to furnish my apartment by myself. I sure couldn't buy everything I wanted then, and I don't expect to now.

This game isn't something I expect to finish in a month, throw it into my dust pile, and play something else. To me, it's an investment, one in which I want to take advantage of, even with the frustrating mechanic known as "RNG". It's not nice, but it's also a reason to keep trying. I may even find myself with something better than I originally set out to get, such as that Khajiit tapestry with moon emblems.

I understand your frustration, but in all honesty, if I were ZoS reading your concerns, I would have no choice but to dismiss them, but tell the development team "Reduce the number of tempers needed to craft furniture."

I hope you understand I can't support you fully here. I will give you an "A+" for keeping your message civil, though. It's rare to see this anymore.