Grim focus sucks
JinMori
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I'll be straight here, this ability seems good on paper but it's really not, Grim focus gives a buff that you should already have in a group (minor berserk), of all the stamina rotation i find the nb to be the worst of all of them, mostly because of this ability, same for magicka nb, also this ability is a 20 second buff, which usually doesn't fit well with dots, you will almost always have to cut some of the duration because of this, also it only hits 1 time, which also sucks, this ability would be so much better if the bow could be fired every 4 light or heavy attacks, it doesn't even hit for that much, cristal fragments hits for a similar amount, but you don't have to keep the buff up, and it procs much more.
My suggestion for this ability is to, remove the minor berserk buff, and make it work similarly to cristal frag, which means you don't have to keep up the buff, and every 4 light attacks you can proc the bow.
Or keep the buff, and the cast, but instead of only 1 bow per cast you can use as many as you can fit if you manage to weave your abilities perfectly
Edited by JinMori on March 5, 2017 5:02AM My suggestion for this ability is to, remove the minor berserk buff, and make it work similarly to cristal frag, which means you don't have to keep up the buff, and every 4 light attacks you can proc the bow.
Or keep the buff, and the cast, but instead of only 1 bow per cast you can use as many as you can fit if you manage to weave your abilities perfectly
3
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So now you've listed all the reasons it's bad, how about some more constructive feed back on how to make it better, including the pros and cons of such a new design.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
ZombieZig✭✭✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.Edited by ZombieZig on March 5, 2017 3:19AM12 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
You probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.Edited by JinMori on March 6, 2017 12:17AM3 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In short... yes and no.
I need that 8% ready for me, because as noted it isn't always available whether it is PVP or PUGs.
and yes it is what is wrong with NB atm. It is clunky and needs useability buff to make it fit better in the rotation.2 -
Unsent.Soul✭✭✭✭✭
✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
Flat out calling someone stupid means several things. Mainly we look at your character, not in game but as a whole. With your recent posts one can cast judgement rather easy...
Insulting people because you disagree looks extremely childish and rather pathetic.8 -
DannyLV702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think this ability needs to be buffed to where if you fire the arrow, it reactivates the ability5 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
You have no idea how game design works. You say it sucks because it doesnt apply to group play and because it doesnt fit a rotation that you deem ideal.
What you suggest is both stupid and imbalanced. The people that use the skil use it almost exclusively because of minor berserk and because they can control when to burst.
Please do a little bit more than normal pledges before making design suggestions.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@JinMori
First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.
Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.
Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.
Parse is linked at the end of the OP.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.Edited by idk on March 5, 2017 10:22AM0 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭My Grim focus hits around 30k regardless of magblade or stamblade. It is good skill to use, especially for bursting purposes.
When it dropped from 7 la / ha to 4, it became much more potential.
I have adapted Grim focus on my rotation and it works well. If i can, you can.NB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Uhm...
I think it's awesome on my mag nb.
It's the biggest contributor to total dps when everything clicks (both me and latency and boss fight), it surpasses even heavy attacks. It crits bosses for a little under 40k damage every 4 hits.
Merciless -> HA -> Degen -> HA -> Grasp -> HA -> Swallow -> HA -> Degen -> Merciless -> Repeat
That's 20k DPS in purple gear (5 critmother, 4 alchemist, 2 skoria).
EDIT: That being said I would love for it to auto-apply itself upon being fired so I didn't lose a global CD, but /shrug.Edited by Jitterbug on March 5, 2017 11:17AM2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unsent.Soul wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
Flat out calling someone stupid means several things. Mainly we look at your character, not in game but as a whole. With your recent posts one can cast judgement rather easy...
Insulting people because you disagree looks extremely childish and rather pathetic.
Yea sorry about that one, it was stupid from my part.notimetocare wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
You have no idea how game design works. You say it sucks because it doesnt apply to group play and because it doesnt fit a rotation that you deem ideal.
What you suggest is both stupid and imbalanced. The people that use the skil use it almost exclusively because of minor berserk and because they can control when to burst.
Please do a little bit more than normal pledges before making design suggestions.
No it wouldn't be op. First of all it would make the rotation much more smooth, second it would help the nb to reach the other classes in terms of dps, it's no secret that nb both mag and stamina are behind all other classes on this aspect, third, third ability actually doesn't hit that hard, sorcerer has an ability that hits almost as much, doesn't require you to keep up a buff, and procs many times (crystal fragments) so no, i don't think it would be a bad change. It's pretty clear that this ability has many problems, only the fact that you have to use 2 global cooldown to use this ability means that the damage is halved, so your 40 k spectral bow is more like 20k.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Uhm...
I think it's awesome on my mag nb.
It's the biggest contributor to total dps when everything clicks (both me and latency and boss fight), it surpasses even heavy attacks. It crits bosses for a little under 40k damage every 4 hits.
Merciless -> HA -> Degen -> HA -> Grasp -> HA -> Swallow -> HA -> Degen -> Merciless -> Repeat
That's 20k DPS in purple gear (5 critmother, 4 alchemist, 2 skoria).
EDIT: That being said I would love for it to auto-apply itself upon being fired so I didn't lose a global CD, but /shrug.
Sry, but that's not much, with julianos magnus and willpower i can get up to 35 k dps 40k in trials, You should check your rotation again, degeneration is supposed to be used every 20 seconds to keep up the major sorcery.
The rotation should be more like this: light or heavy attack between each ability, Merciless>Degeneration or entropy>rearming trap beast>twisting path>blockade of fire>Cripple> swallow soul or force pulse until dots run out, repeat. This is a very rough rotation.0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unsent.Soul wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
Flat out calling someone stupid means several things. Mainly we look at your character, not in game but as a whole. With your recent posts one can cast judgement rather easy...
Insulting people because you disagree looks extremely childish and rather pathetic.
Yea sorry about that one, it was stupid from my part.notimetocare wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
You have no idea how game design works. You say it sucks because it doesnt apply to group play and because it doesnt fit a rotation that you deem ideal.
What you suggest is both stupid and imbalanced. The people that use the skil use it almost exclusively because of minor berserk and because they can control when to burst.
Please do a little bit more than normal pledges before making design suggestions.
No it wouldn't be op. First of all it would make the rotation much more smooth, second it would help the nb to reach the other classes in terms of dps, it's no secret that nb both mag and stamina are behind all other classes on this aspect, third, third ability actually doesn't hit that hard, sorcerer has an ability that hits almost as much, doesn't require you to keep up a buff, and procs many times (crystal fragments) so no, i don't think it would be a bad change. It's pretty clear that this ability has many problems, only the fact that you have to use 2 global cooldown to use this ability means that the damage is halved, so your 40 k spectral bow is more like 20k.
Reliable proc vs RNG proc. Frags is a bad comparison because it is fully possible to go a whole fight without a frag.
On top of that, you suggested it fire automatically. Either the dmg would be nerfed or it would be op. There are also better ways to deal with any lacking on the part of NBs then to cripple the way a skill has worked (and most Nbs seem to prefer)0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notimetocare wrote: »Unsent.Soul wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
Flat out calling someone stupid means several things. Mainly we look at your character, not in game but as a whole. With your recent posts one can cast judgement rather easy...
Insulting people because you disagree looks extremely childish and rather pathetic.
Yea sorry about that one, it was stupid from my part.notimetocare wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
You have no idea how game design works. You say it sucks because it doesnt apply to group play and because it doesnt fit a rotation that you deem ideal.
What you suggest is both stupid and imbalanced. The people that use the skil use it almost exclusively because of minor berserk and because they can control when to burst.
Please do a little bit more than normal pledges before making design suggestions.
No it wouldn't be op. First of all it would make the rotation much more smooth, second it would help the nb to reach the other classes in terms of dps, it's no secret that nb both mag and stamina are behind all other classes on this aspect, third, third ability actually doesn't hit that hard, sorcerer has an ability that hits almost as much, doesn't require you to keep up a buff, and procs many times (crystal fragments) so no, i don't think it would be a bad change. It's pretty clear that this ability has many problems, only the fact that you have to use 2 global cooldown to use this ability means that the damage is halved, so your 40 k spectral bow is more like 20k.
Reliable proc vs RNG proc. Frags is a bad comparison because it is fully possible to go a whole fight without a frag.
On top of that, you suggested it fire automatically. Either the dmg would be nerfed or it would be op. There are also better ways to deal with any lacking on the part of NBs then to cripple the way a skill has worked (and most Nbs seem to prefer)
No didn't say it should fire automatically you got it wrong, of course that would be op. And no it won't happen 35% chance is very reliable, I chellenge you to find a single sorc that would tell you that during a boss fight cristal frag didn't proc a single time, it won't happen, you have like 1% chance that it will.
And how do you know that most prefer it that way? I have seen a lot of posts asking to change grim focus.Edited by JinMori on March 5, 2017 12:41PM0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »Unsent.Soul wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
Flat out calling someone stupid means several things. Mainly we look at your character, not in game but as a whole. With your recent posts one can cast judgement rather easy...
Insulting people because you disagree looks extremely childish and rather pathetic.
Yea sorry about that one, it was stupid from my part.notimetocare wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
You have no idea how game design works. You say it sucks because it doesnt apply to group play and because it doesnt fit a rotation that you deem ideal.
What you suggest is both stupid and imbalanced. The people that use the skil use it almost exclusively because of minor berserk and because they can control when to burst.
Please do a little bit more than normal pledges before making design suggestions.
No it wouldn't be op. First of all it would make the rotation much more smooth, second it would help the nb to reach the other classes in terms of dps, it's no secret that nb both mag and stamina are behind all other classes on this aspect, third, third ability actually doesn't hit that hard, sorcerer has an ability that hits almost as much, doesn't require you to keep up a buff, and procs many times (crystal fragments) so no, i don't think it would be a bad change. It's pretty clear that this ability has many problems, only the fact that you have to use 2 global cooldown to use this ability means that the damage is halved, so your 40 k spectral bow is more like 20k.
Reliable proc vs RNG proc. Frags is a bad comparison because it is fully possible to go a whole fight without a frag.
On top of that, you suggested it fire automatically. Either the dmg would be nerfed or it would be op. There are also better ways to deal with any lacking on the part of NBs then to cripple the way a skill has worked (and most Nbs seem to prefer)
No didn't say it should fire automatically you got it wrong, of course that would be op. And no it won't happen 35% chance is very reliable, I chellenge you to find a single sorc that would tell you that during a boss fight cristal frag didn't proc a single time, it won't happen, you have like 1% chance that it will.
And how do you know that most prefer it that way? I have seen a lot of posts asking to change grim focus.
Every build that uses it does so for minor berserk. Almost all pvp builds use the bow for timed burst. Pretty much answers the preferred as is question.
Can happen pretty easily, but more common is going longer between frags than 4light attacks. Ive seen many posts asking it, and most contain primarily disagreement0 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭It could be smoother. Mostly the animation to reapply it is clunky. Also the red glow from the buff seems to stay on you tricking you into thinking you have it applied. The light attacks are fine but skill should refresh itself.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uhm...
I think it's awesome on my mag nb.
It's the biggest contributor to total dps when everything clicks (both me and latency and boss fight), it surpasses even heavy attacks. It crits bosses for a little under 40k damage every 4 hits.
Merciless -> HA -> Degen -> HA -> Grasp -> HA -> Swallow -> HA -> Degen -> Merciless -> Repeat
That's 20k DPS in purple gear (5 critmother, 4 alchemist, 2 skoria).
EDIT: That being said I would love for it to auto-apply itself upon being fired so I didn't lose a global CD, but /shrug.
Sry, but that's not much, with julianos magnus and willpower i can get up to 35 k dps 40k in trials, You should check your rotation again, degeneration is supposed to be used every 20 seconds to keep up the major sorcery.
The rotation should be more like this: light or heavy attack between each ability, Merciless>Degeneration or entropy>rearming trap beast>twisting path>blockade of fire>Cripple> swallow soul or force pulse until dots run out, repeat. This is a very rough rotation.
35% is very reliable when RNG is in your favor. While I would not say frags has never proced when fighting a trial boss it can go an extended period of time without procing.
I provided you with information earlier that demonstrated the use of this skill in a rotation that did fairly well. I would suggest taking a look at it to see how they had it in their rotation and see how it works for you.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »@JinMori
First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.
Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.
Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.
Parse is linked at the end of the OP.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭notimetocare wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »Unsent.Soul wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
Flat out calling someone stupid means several things. Mainly we look at your character, not in game but as a whole. With your recent posts one can cast judgement rather easy...
Insulting people because you disagree looks extremely childish and rather pathetic.
Yea sorry about that one, it was stupid from my part.notimetocare wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
You have no idea how game design works. You say it sucks because it doesnt apply to group play and because it doesnt fit a rotation that you deem ideal.
What you suggest is both stupid and imbalanced. The people that use the skil use it almost exclusively because of minor berserk and because they can control when to burst.
Please do a little bit more than normal pledges before making design suggestions.
No it wouldn't be op. First of all it would make the rotation much more smooth, second it would help the nb to reach the other classes in terms of dps, it's no secret that nb both mag and stamina are behind all other classes on this aspect, third, third ability actually doesn't hit that hard, sorcerer has an ability that hits almost as much, doesn't require you to keep up a buff, and procs many times (crystal fragments) so no, i don't think it would be a bad change. It's pretty clear that this ability has many problems, only the fact that you have to use 2 global cooldown to use this ability means that the damage is halved, so your 40 k spectral bow is more like 20k.
Reliable proc vs RNG proc. Frags is a bad comparison because it is fully possible to go a whole fight without a frag.
On top of that, you suggested it fire automatically. Either the dmg would be nerfed or it would be op. There are also better ways to deal with any lacking on the part of NBs then to cripple the way a skill has worked (and most Nbs seem to prefer)
No didn't say it should fire automatically you got it wrong, of course that would be op. And no it won't happen 35% chance is very reliable, I chellenge you to find a single sorc that would tell you that during a boss fight cristal frag didn't proc a single time, it won't happen, you have like 1% chance that it will.
And how do you know that most prefer it that way? I have seen a lot of posts asking to change grim focus.
Every build that uses it does so for minor berserk. Almost all pvp builds use the bow for timed burst. Pretty much answers the preferred as is question.
Can happen pretty easily, but more common is going longer between frags than 4light attacks. Ive seen many posts asking it, and most contain primarily disagreement
The only person I've seen on these forums preferring the skill as it is right now is Kena.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »@JinMori
First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.
Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.
Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.
Parse is linked at the end of the OP.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.
Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »@JinMori
First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.
Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.
Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.
Parse is linked at the end of the OP.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.
Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.
It is impressive, but why use bow when you can use dw?0 -
djdc1234✭✭✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
stalker lol... very toxic place almost equal to destiny forums and that place mods are non existent0 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
LOL i just checked his other posts.
ZOS block and delete this guy from the forums asap. Absolute toxic to the community0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
LOL i just checked his other posts.
ZOS block and delete this guy from the forums asap. Absolute toxic to the community
I personally didn't really expect so much backlash from an opinion, i'll admit i *** up here and there, but i still think that crouch damage boost is terrible, and needs to go. These guys are satisfied with using a one shot build? Well i'm not.
My view of a nightblade is not a honorless snake attacking people from stealth, rather an agile warrior using weapons, magic and technique to dispatch enemies, with a bit of the stealth aspect, but not 100 % reliant on it.
Almost 100 % of the counter argument was ltp.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »@JinMori
First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.
Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.
Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.
Parse is linked at the end of the OP.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.
Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.
It is impressive, but why use bow when you can use dw?
So your question is why go ranged when you can go melee. That is what your really asking.
With vMoL someone has to go ranged in the first fight, more than one someone. Often 4 ranged DPS, as few as 2 ranged DPS on the first boss but melee have to be damned good about where they stand the more that are there. So, do you really want to be left out because your melee?
Rakkhat HM at least 4 ranged are needed again, healers not included (though I doubt many stam dps have cleared HM due to survival). With some groups 6 ranged are needed for that fight.
Any class, stam/magika (except magika DK), can do melee and there is nothing special about it.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »@JinMori
First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.
Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.
Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.
Parse is linked at the end of the OP.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.
Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.
It is impressive, but why use bow when you can use dw?
So your question is why go ranged when you can go melee. That is what your really asking.
With vMoL someone has to go ranged in the first fight, more than one someone. Often 4 ranged DPS, as few as 2 ranged DPS on the first boss but melee have to be damned good about where they stand the more that are there. So, do you really want to be left out because your melee?
Rakkhat HM at least 4 ranged are needed again, healers not included (though I doubt many stam dps have cleared HM due to survival). With some groups 6 ranged are needed for that fight.
Any class, stam/magika (except magika DK), can do melee and there is nothing special about it.
Not exactly, what i'm saying is why use something worse when you can use something better? It's no secret that dw outperforms bow in every single aspect.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭no, minor berserk is great to have. Get rid of it because someone might be running in a group and might get the buff. no thanks.
i dont want crystal frags. I am a nb.
Also, i dont know what your stats are, but my spectral bow hits much harder then a frag.
The duration is perfect. not to high. not to low.
the change i would like to see is an automatic refresh on the ability when you shoot the bow. ofcourse you will need to add a cost to using the bow then. which is fine for me since you just recast the ability right after anyway.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »no, minor berserk is great to have. Get rid of it because someone might be running in a group and might get the buff. no thanks.
i dont want crystal frags. I am a nb.
Also, i dont know what your stats are, but my spectral bow hits much harder then a frag.
The duration is perfect. not to high. not to low.
the change i would like to see is an automatic refresh on the ability when you shoot the bow. ofcourse you will need to add a cost to using the bow then. which is fine for me since you just recast the ability right after anyway.
You didn't read the entire post, because i suggested another thing. my cristal frag usually hits for 35k my spectral bow for about 40k, byt you proc frags much more times. I advise that before you make a post read carefully.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
your post here also assumes that pve is exclusivley group play. it is not. in fact these days i solo most dungeons and that buff is really nice to have/ what about vma? pve is more than just group focused content. just as you dont want us to focus strictly on pvp, we dont want you to focus completely on group play.bowmanz607 wrote: »no, minor berserk is great to have. Get rid of it because someone might be running in a group and might get the buff. no thanks.
i dont want crystal frags. I am a nb.
Also, i dont know what your stats are, but my spectral bow hits much harder then a frag.
The duration is perfect. not to high. not to low.
the change i would like to see is an automatic refresh on the ability when you shoot the bow. ofcourse you will need to add a cost to using the bow then. which is fine for me since you just recast the ability right after anyway.
You didn't read the entire post, because i suggested another thing. my cristal frag usually hits for 35k my spectral bow for about 40k, byt you proc frags much more times. I advise that before you make a post read carefully.
first, you should not expect everyone to read every last post in a thread. many people will comment on your op. if you wan to add more to your position I would suggest editing your op or pointing a person to the comment number you refer to.
your trying to compare grim to frags. you just cant. they are simply different and bring different things to the table. Frags are really used more as a reliable dps (more or less but you get the point) as opposed to bow which is just extra burst damage that brings a buff to the mix. your essentially trying to give a frag to nb which i am against. I dont like giving each class the same thing.
i stick by my comments in my first post.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?
What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.
The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.
your post here also assumes that pve is exclusivley group play. it is not. in fact these days i solo most dungeons and that buff is really nice to have/ what about vma? pve is more than just group focused content. just as you dont want us to focus strictly on pvp, we dont want you to focus completely on group play.bowmanz607 wrote: »no, minor berserk is great to have. Get rid of it because someone might be running in a group and might get the buff. no thanks.
i dont want crystal frags. I am a nb.
Also, i dont know what your stats are, but my spectral bow hits much harder then a frag.
The duration is perfect. not to high. not to low.
the change i would like to see is an automatic refresh on the ability when you shoot the bow. ofcourse you will need to add a cost to using the bow then. which is fine for me since you just recast the ability right after anyway.
You didn't read the entire post, because i suggested another thing. my cristal frag usually hits for 35k my spectral bow for about 40k, byt you proc frags much more times. I advise that before you make a post read carefully.
first, you should not expect everyone to read every last post in a thread. many people will comment on your op. if you wan to add more to your position I would suggest editing your op or pointing a person to the comment number you refer to.
your trying to compare grim to frags. you just cant. they are simply different and bring different things to the table. Frags are really used more as a reliable dps (more or less but you get the point) as opposed to bow which is just extra burst damage that brings a buff to the mix. your essentially trying to give a frag to nb which i am against. I dont like giving each class the same thing.
i stick by my comments in my first post.
What i suggested is beneficial in both pvp and pve, aren't you guys pissed that nb sucks at dps? This would help nb in both pvp with more reliable burst, and in pve it would allow nb to deal more dps since it's already lagging behind.
Also everything i suggested was in my original post.0