Grim focus sucks

bowmanz607

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

ZombieZig wrote: »

This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?

What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.

The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.

your post here also assumes that pve is exclusivley group play. it is not. in fact these days i solo most dungeons and that buff is really nice to have/ what about vma? pve is more than just group focused content. just as you dont want us to focus strictly on pvp, we dont want you to focus completely on group play.

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

no, minor berserk is great to have. Get rid of it because someone might be running in a group and might get the buff. no thanks.

i dont want crystal frags. I am a nb.

Also, i dont know what your stats are, but my spectral bow hits much harder then a frag.

The duration is perfect. not to high. not to low.

the change i would like to see is an automatic refresh on the ability when you shoot the bow. ofcourse you will need to add a cost to using the bow then. which is fine for me since you just recast the ability right after anyway.

You didn't read the entire post, because i suggested another thing. my cristal frag usually hits for 35k my spectral bow for about 40k, byt you proc frags much more times. I advise that before you make a post read carefully.

first, you should not expect everyone to read every last post in a thread. many people will comment on your op. if you wan to add more to your position I would suggest editing your op or pointing a person to the comment number you refer to.

your trying to compare grim to frags. you just cant. they are simply different and bring different things to the table. Frags are really used more as a reliable dps (more or less but you get the point) as opposed to bow which is just extra burst damage that brings a buff to the mix. your essentially trying to give a frag to nb which i am against. I dont like giving each class the same thing.

i stick by my comments in my first post.

What i suggested is beneficial in both pvp and pve, aren't you guys pissed that nb sucks at dps? This would help nb in both pvp with more reliable burst, and in pve it would allow nb to deal more dps since it's already lagging behind.
Also everything i suggested was in my original post.

ya nb dps is lowed compared to others in pve. i agree. but this is not the change i want to see. simply making it refresh after using will go a long way to help. other changes would be better such as looking at the skills in the siphoning skill line for dot damage. you dont need to overhaul a single skill to make it happen. just tweak multiple skills. Nb are not way off the mark or anything just some tweaks that work together to make overall dps better in pve.

The burst is already reliable. as long as you weave your attacks your good. Just need it to auto refresh is all. plus your getting rid of 8% of a nb damage on all other attacks by removing the buff.

idk

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@JinMori

First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.

Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.

Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.

Parse is linked at the end of the OP.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.

Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.

It is impressive, but why use bow when you can use dw?

So your question is why go ranged when you can go melee. That is what your really asking.

With vMoL someone has to go ranged in the first fight, more than one someone. Often 4 ranged DPS, as few as 2 ranged DPS on the first boss but melee have to be damned good about where they stand the more that are there. So, do you really want to be left out because your melee?

Rakkhat HM at least 4 ranged are needed again, healers not included (though I doubt many stam dps have cleared HM due to survival). With some groups 6 ranged are needed for that fight.

Any class, stam/magika (except magika DK), can do melee and there is nothing special about it.

Not exactly, what i'm saying is why use something worse when you can use something better? It's no secret that dw outperforms bow in every single aspect.

Ok. nvm. You just want it like frags. Guess they can up the damage of the proc, remove the buff and return the skill to requiring 7 light/heavy attacks for balancing purposes.

Certainly could be OP if it did that much damage, gave minor berserk, only took 4 light/heavy attacks to proc it plus increased all damage by 8 percent.

JinMori

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@JinMori

First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.

Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.

Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.

Parse is linked at the end of the OP.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.

Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.

It is impressive, but why use bow when you can use dw?

So your question is why go ranged when you can go melee. That is what your really asking.

With vMoL someone has to go ranged in the first fight, more than one someone. Often 4 ranged DPS, as few as 2 ranged DPS on the first boss but melee have to be damned good about where they stand the more that are there. So, do you really want to be left out because your melee?

Rakkhat HM at least 4 ranged are needed again, healers not included (though I doubt many stam dps have cleared HM due to survival). With some groups 6 ranged are needed for that fight.

Any class, stam/magika (except magika DK), can do melee and there is nothing special about it.

Not exactly, what i'm saying is why use something worse when you can use something better? It's no secret that dw outperforms bow in every single aspect.

Ok. nvm. You just want it like frags. Guess they can up the damage of the proc, remove the buff and return the skill to requiring 7 light/heavy attacks for balancing purposes.

Certainly could be OP if it did that much damage, gave minor berserk, only took 4 light/heavy attacks to proc it plus increased all damage by 8 percent.

It wouldn't be like frag anyway, but there is another way to do this, keep the buff, keep the cast time, but every 4 light or heavy attacks you can use the proc, and then it refreshes. Then they just need to do some damage tuning, this way grim focus would be much smoother in the rotation.

Cpt_Teemo

Narvuntien wrote: »

In short... yes and no.

I need that 8% ready for me, because as noted it isn't always available whether it is PVP or PUGs.

and yes it is what is wrong with NB atm. It is clunky and needs useability buff to make it fit better in the rotation.

Or possibly just a toggle, instead of that insant cast attack tbh

DRXHarbinger

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@JinMori

First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.

Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.

Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.

Parse is linked at the end of the OP.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.

Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.

It is impressive, but why use bow when you can use dw?

So your question is why go ranged when you can go melee. That is what your really asking.

With vMoL someone has to go ranged in the first fight, more than one someone. Often 4 ranged DPS, as few as 2 ranged DPS on the first boss but melee have to be damned good about where they stand the more that are there. So, do you really want to be left out because your melee?

Rakkhat HM at least 4 ranged are needed again, healers not included (though I doubt many stam dps have cleared HM due to survival). With some groups 6 ranged are needed for that fight.

Any class, stam/magika (except magika DK), can do melee and there is nothing special about it.

Not exactly, what i'm saying is why use something worse when you can use something better? It's no secret that dw outperforms bow in every single aspect.

Ok. nvm. You just want it like frags. Guess they can up the damage of the proc, remove the buff and return the skill to requiring 7 light/heavy attacks for balancing purposes.

Certainly could be OP if it did that much damage, gave minor berserk, only took 4 light/heavy attacks to proc it plus increased all damage by 8 percent.

It wouldn't be like frag anyway, but there is another way to do this, keep the buff, keep the cast time, but every 4 light or heavy attacks you can use the proc, and then it refreshes. Then they just need to do some damage tuning, this way grim focus would be much smoother in the rotation.

Yeah that would kind of be OP. Having a free 35k instant blast (which in pvp you have no sign it's coming until it's in the air unlike frags you spot a mile off) this would just increase the burst potential.

All it needs imo is not to bug out and show the wrong icon half the time.

I flawlessed vma on mine today and can tell you I was dropping down some 120k+ burst combos in there. It does not need a buff or rework at all.

Izaki

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@JinMori

First, I would suggest a smoother response when replying to others.

Second, the appropriate morph of Grim Focus is used by end game raiders heavily and if high end PvE raiders use it then it is worth it.. Essentially guarantees 100% up time of Minor Berserk and the proc is worth it. There is no other class that can guarantee an 8% increase in all damage. None. Oh, and increases stam regen as a plus.

Third, since you are of the opinion that Stam NB is the worst of all stam classes I will leave a little link below showing a stam NB build using Relentless Focus (should be the morph you use) and puling 39k. Not exactly bad dps. I figured you may gleam something to help work the skill into your rotation from reading the build.

Parse is linked at the end of the OP.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Edit: The skill was buffed in Homestead update so it now scales off max stam and weapon damage and is mitigated by physical resist instead of spell resist.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
While I agree with everything you said, using the Bow proc is a loss of DPS on both magicka and stamina night blades. The damage of the proc does roughly 2x Force Pulse or 2x Rapid Strikes. But you have to do 2 casts. So essentially, in 2 globals, you're dealing the damage of 1 Force Pulse or Rapid Strikes. So generally, in better groups where healers can provide high uptime on Combat Prayer, its better to just keep the skill on your bar for the passives and take it out of your rotation entirely. A couple of the stamina nightblade mains that are part of creating the "meta" for the class each update (Giliam and Jeckll come to mind) all agree on this point. The skill as of now, is great for burst and for solo or smaller group play (vMA, vDSA, PvP) but in trials its just not worth it. The skill was always scaling the same way as a ultimate (so it always scaled of stamina and weapon damage on a stamina build) and it already had the disease damage since TG or DB if I'm not mistaken. The only things that changed in Homestead was the fix for the spell penetration bug and the fact that it now costs stamina to cast.

Not arguing with you, but that build did not use rapid strikes either. That was 39k pure bow build unbuffed which is pretty impressive IMHO. The person who posted it did note during execute phase to cease using the proc because everything else is more worthy. Considering the desire for some ranged players with vMOL it is not a bad build.

Yeah, I've seen that build and been talking to Nos for advice on lots of stuff

glitchmaster999

As a player that runs primarily vet end game content like trials and DLC dungeons I can say that if you don't think this skill is worth it then how or where you are using it is the problem. The rotation is easier than sorc because nothing changes and while it is no secret that dps is lower on a magblade than a mag sorc that dps drop comes with the benefit of near infinite resources.

The bow proc is easily the highest damage skill in the nb kit and while you should always have that 8% boost, the bow proc critting for over 40k = almost 3 of your main spam ability (my force pulse hits for around 17k). It is not clunky to recast, all I do is bow proc light attack recast bar swap and it essentially just adds half a second to your rotation. This is on Australian ping as well.

Not even talking about trials, vMA it is invaluable, PVP it is amazing and even vet dungeons when you have the 8% from combat prayer most of the time it lets you time your burst for dps stress tests such as nerineth. Some people also empower the proc with a magelight cast during dps pauses if they have no ult charge and get a huge chunk of damage as soon as the dps resumes.

As far as I can tell, if they wanted to improve how nightblades perform in single target dps, they should improve the damage of the siphoning tree dots and the shadow damage ability which I forget the name of. That way, stamblade rotation would be less about dots and more about keeping up buff times (siphoning and merciless) and magblade would simply receive a boost to single target dps which they desperately need.

Gilvoth

.

Gilvoth

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

ZombieZig wrote: »

This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?

What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.

The only one who is stupid here is you, you probably didn't even read the original post.
I said that this ability sucks because it provides a buff that should already be in a group, (not everything is about pvp), it lasts 20 seconds which doesn't fit well with a rotation, it can proc one time, and it requires 2 global cooldowns, what i suggested would be beneficial to you.

your post here also assumes that pve is exclusivley group play. it is not. in fact these days i solo most dungeons and that buff is really nice to have/ what about vma? pve is more than just group focused content. just as you dont want us to focus strictly on pvp, we dont want you to focus completely on group play.

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

no, minor berserk is great to have. Get rid of it because someone might be running in a group and might get the buff. no thanks.

i dont want crystal frags. I am a nb.

Also, i dont know what your stats are, but my spectral bow hits much harder then a frag.

The duration is perfect. not to high. not to low.

the change i would like to see is an automatic refresh on the ability when you shoot the bow. ofcourse you will need to add a cost to using the bow then. which is fine for me since you just recast the ability right after anyway.

You didn't read the entire post, because i suggested another thing. my cristal frag usually hits for 35k my spectral bow for about 40k, byt you proc frags much more times. I advise that before you make a post read carefully.

first, you should not expect everyone to read every last post in a thread. many people will comment on your op. if you wan to add more to your position I would suggest editing your op or pointing a person to the comment number you refer to.

your trying to compare grim to frags. you just cant. they are simply different and bring different things to the table. Frags are really used more as a reliable dps (more or less but you get the point) as opposed to bow which is just extra burst damage that brings a buff to the mix. your essentially trying to give a frag to nb which i am against. I dont like giving each class the same thing.

i stick by my comments in my first post.

What i suggested is beneficial in both pvp and pve, aren't you guys pissed that nb sucks at dps? This would help nb in both pvp with more reliable burst, and in pve it would allow nb to deal more dps since it's already lagging behind.
Also everything i suggested was in my original post.

yes, you are right nightblade suks at DPS, that has allways been that way. it is true.
i support you on that

JinMori

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

ZombieZig wrote: »

This guy.. check out the other topics he's started. Like WTH guy?

What if we arent in a group? its nice to have that 8% at your finger tips. My rotations dont EXIST because pvp isnt controlled, having it at a 20 second buff allows me time to use more abilities in between. If you expect a s/mNB to sit there soley using light/heavy attacks to proc ONE ability your [Snip] and thats STUPID.

The only one who is stupid here is you,

allright, That needs to be reported.
i don't report people, but some one eventually will [i hope]
you cant come here and call people "stupid" and for it to be acceptable. the person was simply trying to explain what his opinion was.

I apologized later.