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Getting kicked from Veteran Dungeons
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Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »SquareSausage wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »SquareSausage wrote: »Orbs in a dungeon lol.
Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??
Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.
I think we need to understand, most people doing random dungeons or queuing for specific dungeons probably wont be fully geared and looking for their set items or exp so is a far cry from trials healing.
TBh i think people should expect the worst and go into a dungeon prepared to self sustain, heavy attack when low, drink a pot, whatever, fights are over so quick anyway unless as what post was talking about players like OP who are prob not ready for Vet DLC dungeons.
I que as a healer on my stamplar. with only major brutality/major mending my vigor gives 9k/sec. you'd have to get 1 shot to die. Been doing it for months without a single complaint, aside from 1 tsnk saying at first he panicked when he saw my bow.
I guess my point is, is that expecting someone to join your team and only cast healing springs just reinforces the mentality that it's ok to play like *** and not try. You don't need a healer to stay alive in any vet dungeon.
@Ep1kMalware
Ok I'm calling you out on this 9k vigour tick. Please prove it or something.
With just rally, major mending you get 9k tick? That's hard to believe.
My tank in heavy armour - passives healing received, 5% into blessed and 5% into quick recovery (so 10% extra), major mending 25%, hardened armour 12% healing received from skill line. I think my vigour crit for almost 5k. Granted my WD will be lower as a tank but I really struggle to believe that you just in DPS gear with major, rally can get 9k ticks on a regular basis with no problem.
Unless do you have 25% into blessed, 25% quick recovery and some other stuff? Because 9k tick is pretty nuts especially if you do it on a regular basis like you claim, i.e. Not a one off with, alchemist, spc, kena, warhorn and other buffs etc as a one off tick.
I just use a weapon power pot (no room on my bar for hidden blade), 35 quick recovery, 65% crit, restoring focus (gives an additional 8% healing recieved, 8% damage reduction, 5200 magic/phys resistence)
Also 100 into might, 48 thaumaturge, 2 precise strikes, and the rest into the other one that gives additional crit damage for damage/heals. Also templar passively recieves 10% critical damage as well.
With major brutality I think I'm at 3900 (havent actually looked since homestead patch) weapon dmg, and 40.1k max stamina.
If I pop my rune and cast vigor I get a heal for 5200 and a simultaneous heal for 3800. Giving 9k. I also get heals from empowered bloodcraze, and empowered rend. Can also proc kena for even moar heals. This isn't rocket science >.<
On the topic, I find I get more dot mitigation by putting more into quick recovery and less into thickskinned. Got 20 in there.
Edit: I see you mentioned something about rally too. I don't use it. My typical setup for dungeons is 5automaton, 3vicious jewelry (gold), 2 kena, maelstrom axe, dagger, master bow. All gear gold divines. when I use rally it always brings me to full hp. I *can* use it to outheal planar imhibitor blue phase tho. Save rend for that final oh *** moment at the end. But if you miss a bladecloak or a restoring focus it's gf. And a dps loss. Use carve to build ulti to 205, proc kena, use flury to empower rend. Master bow will empower it firther so you're adding like 3.3k wd just to rend on top of vicious buff.
Remember rune+cloak reduces aoe damage 28%
Recovering life is easy. Just don't eat 1 shots.
The part I bolded, so two ticks? I thought vigour ticked once per second (might be wrong on that) 5 ticks total or maybe I got that part wrong then 9k heal is definitely doable per second.
I know I've seen ticks on myself over 5k but from the way you worded it, it sounded like you was saying you got/gave out a 9k tick.
Nonetheless on topic I agree with you, I'd rather have a healer like you and just shred the dungeon with DPS instead of the majority of healers (not really needed in most 4 man dungeons).
No it's 9k/tick. Each tick comes as 2 numbers recurring 4x and last tick is just 5200. I think it's how they dole out the extra healing. But I use vigor anytime I dodgeroll or flip off my backbar so it's up 100% one thing that bugs me is healers spamming repentence to heal with their junky 20k max magica (omg lich set everybody). They'lk repentence like 8 mobs and gain no resources back. So painful.1 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice...
Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Correction there was tests about cp and roles, and dps is the one that requires most cp points to do vet dungeons.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?
No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?
What do you even do?
Ok I have never met a healer who complains about buffing, if anything you should be excited you can do more then just healing, your essentially increasing your group dps, your group is dpsing through you! How is that not fun for you?1 -
Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been trying to get a monster helm but every time I queue I get kicked instantly. I'm cp 180 and have most of my items gold with good base stats. Do other players think I'm trash at the game because I'm not cp 600?
Also I think it's rediculous that I'm getting kicked and am being punished with a 15 minute probation for something that is out of my control.
Players that kick other players often should receive the punishment.
Unfortunately there's a large portion of players who feel they like they do dungeons in a reasonable time ( for them )
I however dont ever vote to kick UNLESSS
you are one of those bow people who just spam light attacks with bow along with poison injection.
I will vote gladly to kick you for that.
But if ur actually trying and use a real dps rotation i dont care what your CP is
FYI to newbies
If ur a stam build in pve DO NOT use 2 hander at ALL
If you wanna pull your weight go dual wield and bow.
Flurrys and twin slashes and tornado on dps bar
Poison injection and arrow barrage on back bar
If ur a magicka class you shouldn't have a hard time with DPS
1 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »Been trying to get a monster helm but every time I queue I get kicked instantly. I'm cp 180 and have most of my items gold with good base stats. Do other players think I'm trash at the game because I'm not cp 600?
Also I think it's rediculous that I'm getting kicked and am being punished with a 15 minute probation for something that is out of my control.
Players that kick other players often should receive the punishment.
Unfortunately there's a large portion of players who feel they like they do dungeons in a reasonable time ( for them )
I however dont ever vote to kick UNLESSS
you are one of those bow people who just spam light attacks with bow along with poison injection.
I will vote gladly to kick you for that.
But if ur actually trying and use a real dps rotation i dont care what your CP is
FYI to newbies
If ur a stam build in pve DO NOT use 2 hander at ALL
If you wanna pull your weight go dual wield and bow.
Flurrys and twin slashes and tornado on dps bar
Poison injection and arrow barrage on back bar
If ur a magicka class you shouldn't have a hard time with DPS
You forgot trapbeast. Extra crit damage, and it's a nice dot. Also bloodcraze. A nice dot/hot0 -
IronCrystal✭✭✭✭✭
✭CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?
No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?
What do you even do?
Ok I have never met a healer who complains about buffing, if anything you should be excited you can do more then just healing, your essentially increasing your group dps, your group is dpsing through you! How is that not fun for you?
Buffing is just 1 of 3 things you do. You heal, buff, and supply resources. I never said you cut out buffing.
Healing springs, BoL, Combat Prayer, Orbs, channelled focus, shards, power of the light, ele drain, lightning blockade are all on my bars. I run purge in some trials.
I wear sets that buff such as SPC and mending, if not worms.
What is so hard? If you cut out orbs, ele drain, shards, what else are you using? surely you aren't casting dark flare or something.Edited by IronCrystal on February 25, 2017 6:33AMMake PC NA raiding great again!
Down with drama!
What Mechanics Healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Homestead Raid Scores
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Not raiding in Morrowind0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »
"It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me."
______________________________
You should easily be able to work some resource management into your rotation and still have plenty of magicka to keep up buffs and heals.
DPS is based in part on the amount of resources you have so if it helps you can look at helping sustain resources as just another buff to DPS. When I am geared fully for healing it makes more sense to help the DPS to sustain than it does for me to try and contribute some DPS of my own. Of course it is all situation based and if it is obvious the group isn't going to need constant upkeep with healing I can put on a DPS skill and help.
Bottom line if you have the magicka to spare, don't. Sure keep enough in reserve that you can emergency heal those oh $#!+ moments other than that you are wasting group potential if you aren't taking full advantage of everything a healer can do.
Problem with your setups is when I form a group I have to consider a couple things. Would the group benefit more from a healer buffing the group dps with things like combat prayer, spc, IA, warhorn, and probably shard for the tank, or maybe some bosses.
Or would I be better off taking in a 3rd dps.
Most healers have your attitude and are generally useless group members. Option 2 often gives is the most predictable and consistent positive outcome. Healers are not vital, suffer from extreme undeserved self importance, contribute little to nothing to the group, typically have bad attitudes, and from what I've seen on ps4 na, most people only make healers so thy'll get accepted into groups instead of having to l2p.
I already don't like this guy. -.-
Swing and a miss. I said the healer should do whatever helps the group most. I just used a few more words to do it. I messed up when I tried to post a quote so I copied and pasted what I wanted to reply to (above the line) and responded (below the line). I thought the quotations and separation using the line would make that clear. Jump into vDSA or vet trials and let me know how useless those healers are. I know there is a difference in dungeons and trials but the dungeons are where you go to as you put it "l2p".
I already did my l2p aeons ago. We do vdsa 3dps/1tank. Trials healers are also all about buffs/group sustain. If they sat in a corner amd only healed they'd probably be traded out for one that works. Am I missing something?
Yeah you are missing something if you think you are arguing with me. Basically you are saying the same thing I said in my first post. Healers need to do more than just heal.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?
No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?
What do you even do?
Ok I have never met a healer who complains about buffing, if anything you should be excited you can do more then just healing, your essentially increasing your group dps, your group is dpsing through you! How is that not fun for you?
Buffing is just 1 of 3 things you do. You heal, buff, and supply resources. I never said you cut out buffing.
Healing springs, BoL, Combat Prayer, Orbs, channelled focus, shards, power of the light, ele drain, lightning blockade are all on my bars. I run purge in some trials.
I wear sets that buff such as SPC and mending, if not worms.
What is so hard? If you cut out orbs, ele drain, shards, what else are you using? surely you aren't casting dark flare or something.
Yes this is how you worded it, also those are not the only debuffs.0 -
IronCrystal✭✭✭✭✭
✭CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?
No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?
What do you even do?
Ok I have never met a healer who complains about buffing, if anything you should be excited you can do more then just healing, your essentially increasing your group dps, your group is dpsing through you! How is that not fun for you?
Buffing is just 1 of 3 things you do. You heal, buff, and supply resources. I never said you cut out buffing.
Healing springs, BoL, Combat Prayer, Orbs, channelled focus, shards, power of the light, ele drain, lightning blockade are all on my bars. I run purge in some trials.
I wear sets that buff such as SPC and mending, if not worms.
What is so hard? If you cut out orbs, ele drain, shards, what else are you using? surely you aren't casting dark flare or something.
Yes this is how you worded it, also those are not the only debuffs.
No where in any of my posts did I say not to buff/debuff.
Also, what other debuffs are you referring to? Don't tell me you are still applying minor vulnerability in this patch.Make PC NA raiding great again!
Down with drama!
What Mechanics Healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Homestead Raid Scores
vHRC 157,030
vAA 138,287
vSO 153,393
vMoL 154,550
Not raiding in Morrowind1 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?
No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?
What do you even do?
Ok I have never met a healer who complains about buffing, if anything you should be excited you can do more then just healing, your essentially increasing your group dps, your group is dpsing through you! How is that not fun for you?
Buffing is just 1 of 3 things you do. You heal, buff, and supply resources. I never said you cut out buffing.
Healing springs, BoL, Combat Prayer, Orbs, channelled focus, shards, power of the light, ele drain, lightning blockade are all on my bars. I run purge in some trials.
I wear sets that buff such as SPC and mending, if not worms.
What is so hard? If you cut out orbs, ele drain, shards, what else are you using? surely you aren't casting dark flare or something.
Yes this is how you worded it, also those are not the only debuffs.
No where in any of my posts did I say not to buff/debuff.
Also, what other debuffs are you referring to? Don't tell me you are still applying minor vulnerability in this patch.
Why do you think this applies to you? I was replying to your comment replying to this message below.
mewcatus wrote: »
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
Edited by DragonBound on February 25, 2017 10:28PM0 -
SP39EMC2✭✭✭I really don't know the reasons for been kicked out. Seriously perhaps I think the group did not like my face LOL. I am DPS CP600. Recently went thru using Group Finder. Was in Vet Elden Hollow 1. Done it umptheenth times before. Group was CP600, CP400+ and CP200+. Was doing the Chokethorn. All died before me. I did not die and somehow it got reset. Fight again...resurrected one or two of them. Fight finished (I did not die) but got kicked out.
Initially when the Leader took the short cut I activated to leave but strangely unable to. And before reset the Leader was below the map and after that was able to see him.0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Ep1kMalware wrote: »
"It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me."
______________________________
You should easily be able to work some resource management into your rotation and still have plenty of magicka to keep up buffs and heals.
DPS is based in part on the amount of resources you have so if it helps you can look at helping sustain resources as just another buff to DPS. When I am geared fully for healing it makes more sense to help the DPS to sustain than it does for me to try and contribute some DPS of my own. Of course it is all situation based and if it is obvious the group isn't going to need constant upkeep with healing I can put on a DPS skill and help.
Bottom line if you have the magicka to spare, don't. Sure keep enough in reserve that you can emergency heal those oh $#!+ moments other than that you are wasting group potential if you aren't taking full advantage of everything a healer can do.
Problem with your setups is when I form a group I have to consider a couple things. Would the group benefit more from a healer buffing the group dps with things like combat prayer, spc, IA, warhorn, and probably shard for the tank, or maybe some bosses.
Or would I be better off taking in a 3rd dps.
Most healers have your attitude and are generally useless group members. Option 2 often gives is the most predictable and consistent positive outcome. Healers are not vital, suffer from extreme undeserved self importance, contribute little to nothing to the group, typically have bad attitudes, and from what I've seen on ps4 na, most people only make healers so thy'll get accepted into groups instead of having to l2p.
I already don't like this guy. -.-
Swing and a miss. I said the healer should do whatever helps the group most. I just used a few more words to do it. I messed up when I tried to post a quote so I copied and pasted what I wanted to reply to (above the line) and responded (below the line). I thought the quotations and separation using the line would make that clear. Jump into vDSA or vet trials and let me know how useless those healers are. I know there is a difference in dungeons and trials but the dungeons are where you go to as you put it "l2p".
I already did my l2p aeons ago. We do vdsa 3dps/1tank. Trials healers are also all about buffs/group sustain. If they sat in a corner amd only healed they'd probably be traded out for one that works. Am I missing something?
Yeah you are missing something if you think you are arguing with me. Basically you are saying the same thing I said in my first post. Healers need to do more than just heal.
Ohhhh my bad >.<
Healers thibk too highly of healibg imo. Alot of people use the role just to get into vet dungeons/trials0 -
darthsithis✭✭✭Join my guild, we carry lower levels through hard content to help people who feel frustrated at the community. Some of us find I quite fun to introduce hard dungeon mechanics and builds to players just getting into endgame.
My first vet dungeon was wgt, and the people who ditched me were just not that interested or invested in helping or trying. Some people think 'ugh this person will hold me back' and they bounce, but i love nothing more than rocking my flawless conqueror title and then making free armor for a total stranger so they can wear velidreth on their magblade.
My guild is full of people who think running prisons with a cp 190 on a level new lv 30 toon is fun. Sry you get kicked out of group finder, but we wouldn't kick you if you want our help
message me on here if ur on xbox Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.1 -
darthsithis✭✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »If you are CP160 as DPS role for Vet Cradle of Shadows, it's pretty much going to be a 100% guaranteed insta-kick. That dungeon is difficult even for max CP characters, and your meager DPS will just cause group wipes repeatedly due to overwhelming boss mechanics
We ran that dungeon last night with a 160. I know you aren't the person op got kicked by and you are right that people just will kick- but the ability to do mechanics compensates for cp. three 600's and one 160 (or 180 I forget) made it through with only two wipes.
I think people don't want to bother explaining any tough mechanics, but grinding through the content takes the fun away, and makes a brilliant and fun dungeon like cradle just feel like sky reach with spiders.Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
Are you telling me you healed vet Maw of Lorkjah without ever once supplying resources to your teamates?
No siphon spirit, no ele drain, no orbs, no radient aura, no repentence, no shards?
What do you even do?
Ok I have never met a healer who complains about buffing, if anything you should be excited you can do more then just healing, your essentially increasing your group dps, your group is dpsing through you! How is that not fun for you?
Buffing is just 1 of 3 things you do. You heal, buff, and supply resources. I never said you cut out buffing.
Healing springs, BoL, Combat Prayer, Orbs, channelled focus, shards, power of the light, ele drain, lightning blockade are all on my bars. I run purge in some trials.
I wear sets that buff such as SPC and mending, if not worms.
What is so hard? If you cut out orbs, ele drain, shards, what else are you using? surely you aren't casting dark flare or something.
Yes this is how you worded it, also those are not the only debuffs.
No where in any of my posts did I say not to buff/debuff.
Also, what other debuffs are you referring to? Don't tell me you are still applying minor vulnerability in this patch.
Why do you think this applies to you? I was replying to your comment replying to this message below.
mewcatus wrote: »
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
Mewcactus doesn't understand that self sustaining dps is quite uncommon. Does he think he can just lfg tool and always get trials ready dps or flawless conquerers all day? No he's probably going to get dps in the lvl 20-cp350 range at best. It is his job to feed.
The dps he wants are the kind that don't need him in the first place. Would that be a carry?0 -
KCLucky✭✭I normally don't take to forums to complain, but this has gotten out of hand since the patch on PS4 NA. I think that everyone seeing the 6 in front of their number is skewing their vision on what's needed to clear content quickly. I have cleared Vet WGT 14 times as a healer, and yet I have been insta-kicked the last 8 times that I have attempted to run it before we even go up the ladder. I'm CP 291. I cleared it my first time with no wipes, a 561 tank and 2 300 dps while I was at 184.
I've been trying to farm for better Kena pieces and a 2nd SPC ring, but I can't even get a group to do the dungeon with. I refuse to go grind zombies for hours just to make my number higher, but that's starting to look a little better. Either that, or quit the game. This community is really ruining my enjoyment by not allowing me to run even a really easy dungeon(yes vWGT is extremely easy IMO for any group who has an idea what they're doing).
I'm not at all looking to get carried, I just want the ability to run a dungeon.Edited by KCLucky on March 2, 2017 3:22AM0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭I normally don't take to forums to complain, but this has gotten out of hand since the patch on PS4 NA. I think that everyone seeing the 6 in front of their number is skewing their vision on what's needed to clear content quickly. I have cleared Vet WGT 14 times as a healer, and yet I have been insta-kicked the last 8 times that I have attempted to run it before we even go up the ladder. I'm CP 291. I cleared it my first time with no wipes, a 561 tank and 2 300 dps while I was at 184.
I've been trying to farm for better Kena pieces and a 2nd SPC ring, but I can't even get a group to do the dungeon with. I refuse to go grind zombies for hours just to make my number higher, but that's starting to look a little better. Either that, or quit the game. This community is really ruining my enjoyment by not allowing me to run even a really easy dungeon(yes vWGT is extremely easy IMO for any group who has an idea what they're doing).
I'm not at all looking to get carried, I just want the ability to run a dungeon.
I run vwgt daily (Love the place) but we run tank/3dps. Can you dps it instead?
0 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »If you are CP160 as DPS role for Vet Cradle of Shadows, it's pretty much going to be a 100% guaranteed insta-kick. That dungeon is difficult even for max CP characters, and your meager DPS will just cause group wipes repeatedly due to overwhelming boss mechanics.
I ran this recently with a group where one of our dps accidentally queued as a tank. He was very repentant and offered to leave but we decided to continue to see if we could do it. Two of the dps were around 200cp and the healer and other dps were 160 and 140. We made it through with just a couple of deaths. This was Vet Cradle of Shadows with no tank and no high-cp players. So don't give me that crap about "content is 2 difficult so I instakik u sub-600cp."Edited by Molydeus on March 2, 2017 6:32PM0 -
KCLucky✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »I normally don't take to forums to complain, but this has gotten out of hand since the patch on PS4 NA. I think that everyone seeing the 6 in front of their number is skewing their vision on what's needed to clear content quickly. I have cleared Vet WGT 14 times as a healer, and yet I have been insta-kicked the last 8 times that I have attempted to run it before we even go up the ladder. I'm CP 291. I cleared it my first time with no wipes, a 561 tank and 2 300 dps while I was at 184.
I've been trying to farm for better Kena pieces and a 2nd SPC ring, but I can't even get a group to do the dungeon with. I refuse to go grind zombies for hours just to make my number higher, but that's starting to look a little better. Either that, or quit the game. This community is really ruining my enjoyment by not allowing me to run even a really easy dungeon(yes vWGT is extremely easy IMO for any group who has an idea what they're doing).
I'm not at all looking to get carried, I just want the ability to run a dungeon.
I run vwgt daily (Love the place) but we run tank/3dps. Can you dps it instead?
I absolutely can. I spend about 50/50 as both roles. I went back healer for faster queues. It is also my favorite dungeon in the game. Not too hard, but a good mix of mechanics and required output.0 -
Amadis001✭✭✭✭I think that a Vet dungeon should only unlock when you've earned all the achievements and completed the quest for the Normal version. That would not prevent underpowered and unprepared people from entering Vet dungeons, but it would be a start. I don't mind playing through a dungeon on Normal before inflicting myself on others. At least I'm a little famailiar with the mechanics.// Amadis of Gaul -- DK Nord (Lvl 50 CP 1000)1
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Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been mostly trying Selene's Web and Cradle of Shadows. I really want a Velidreth or Selene undaunted set for my stamblade.
You shouldn't be kicked for your CP level. I've run both at low CP and did a No Death run in Selene's Web in Vet Hard mode just the other night on my CP 238 toon. Cradle of Shadows is a bit tougher but can be done with low CP.
The best way to accomplish the Undaunted Pledges or Dungeons is to join a guild and run it with Guildies or friends.
Good luck!0 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭derpmander wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.
Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.
Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.
Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.
Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.
History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..
- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...
That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...
As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.
1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.
It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.
Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.
Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?
Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.
Same from me to you. I output decent dps and heals even through vet dungeons and trials. Even the dlc ones and MoL. I do buffs/debuffs. And I can keep anyone alive provided he is not one shot or stands in the red. But resource management is one thing I refuse to let up one. Healers ain't vending machines. We might provide support, but we sure as hell shouldn't help you with ur breathing or wiping ur ass after you ***.
I heal vmol leaderboard runs. Im calling BS on ALL of this.2 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why not go for Tempest Island instead? Great monster-set (and the effect looks awesome too).Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh0 -
darkllord✭✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »If you are CP160 as DPS role for Vet Cradle of Shadows, it's pretty much going to be a 100% guaranteed insta-kick. That dungeon is difficult even for max CP characters, and your meager DPS will just cause group wipes repeatedly due to overwhelming boss mechanics.
I ran this recently with a group where one of our dps accidentally queued as a tank. He was very repentant and offered to leave but we decided to continue to see if we could do it. Two of the dps were around 200cp and the healer and other dps were 160 and 140. We made it through with just a couple of deaths. This was Vet Cradle of Shadows with no tank and no high-cp players. So don't give me that crap about "content is 2 difficult so I instakik u sub-600cp."
Exactly this, in 4 man content, boss fights can take longer without proper dps, but almost all of them can be completed no matter what. All 4 man dungeons are so easy, that even trained monkey can do them after few runs. So don´t get me started on some uberhard vet DLC dungs - there arent any. It is all about mechanics, that are beyond easy. It is not rocket science. After watching one yt video which is describing mechanics, everybody should complete any dungeon unless they are completely /CENSORED/. Yes you can wipe once or twice during first run, but thats it. So I laugh at those, who constantly claims - vet CoS or vet WGT or vet RoM are super hard. No, they arent. If you learn mechanics, they are as easy as FG or Spindle 1. If it seems hard to somebody, its clearly l2p issue.Edited by darkllord on March 3, 2017 8:53AM0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
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It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.
Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.
False. It is the healer's job to do that. Your mindset is a mindset of a bad healer. The whole point of encounters is to kill enemies. The faster you kill, the faster you can proceed and the more you can do. Moreover, you can outdps some mechanics and thus maximize the chance of success/minimize the chance of failure.
The idea is that a group must balance sustain, survivability and DPS in order to maximize DPS and have enough of the other two. IF you wanna just heal staying with full magicka because people don't take that much dmg - you're a waste of slot. If you don't give sustain and don't want your DPS to maximize their DPS and kill stuff faster- you are a burden for your group.
If you aren't buffing - then what are you doing? Overhealing?
Most dungeons can be completed with 4 DPS. A healer who is just healing and a tank who is just surviving are bad healer and tank.
I wonder the same thing. The best is when they know about group sustain skills, but don't use them because...."Eff you brah I play MY WAY!!"
Pug healers are generally bad and should feel bad.
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GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been trying to get a monster helm but every time I queue I get kicked instantly. I'm cp 180 and have most of my items gold with good base stats. Do other players think I'm trash at the game because I'm not cp 600?
Also I think it's rediculous that I'm getting kicked and am being punished with a 15 minute probation for something that is out of my control.
Players that kick other players often should receive the punishment.
Unfortunately, yes.. there are seemingly a lot of players that are fixated on those under 300 CP (or even 400) are not so suitable for vet contents; or those that always want higher or maxed CP because they want to breeze through and finish quick. Of course, you can run vet dungeons with your 180 CP level or in the 300 or 400 CP. You may just encounter more difficulty at it, because the more CP you have, the more you can plus up your resistance and other damage increasers within the constellation trees. You just need to have others in your group who are tolerable and patience enough.. that's all. Well, it is the nature of the beast. Most will be hesitant to want to do a vet dungeon or other vet contents with someone under 400 or even not in the 500 or higher, and it doesn't matter within guilds or not. Constantly, call outs, in zone texts (or even within guilds) are for 500+ or maxed out CP, for vet group contents.0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »I normally don't take to forums to complain, but this has gotten out of hand since the patch on PS4 NA. I think that everyone seeing the 6 in front of their number is skewing their vision on what's needed to clear content quickly. I have cleared Vet WGT 14 times as a healer, and yet I have been insta-kicked the last 8 times that I have attempted to run it before we even go up the ladder. I'm CP 291. I cleared it my first time with no wipes, a 561 tank and 2 300 dps while I was at 184.
I've been trying to farm for better Kena pieces and a 2nd SPC ring, but I can't even get a group to do the dungeon with. I refuse to go grind zombies for hours just to make my number higher, but that's starting to look a little better. Either that, or quit the game. This community is really ruining my enjoyment by not allowing me to run even a really easy dungeon(yes vWGT is extremely easy IMO for any group who has an idea what they're doing).
I'm not at all looking to get carried, I just want the ability to run a dungeon.
I run vwgt daily (Love the place) but we run tank/3dps. Can you dps it instead?
I absolutely can. I spend about 50/50 as both roles. I went back healer for faster queues. It is also my favorite dungeon in the game. Not too hard, but a good mix of mechanics and required output.
Add my psn slicer_of_cats0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not CP
It's DPS fault can't blame healer anymore
We aren't talking about the real issue. It's higher variability of have bad DPS below CP 160 and CP 300. I say this after healing for CP 59 and CP 69 for Selene and black heart. Turns out one DPS was skilled enough to play in vet dungeon.
Mine you was a bit squishy be stay close enough to be use my bone synergy that gave him or here 10 % critical, 70% of health shield and drinking mystic orbs, and enjoying mystic orbs. So yes it's possible, but how do we separate bad DPS from good.
First issue is what kinda of healer or tank is with them. Does the healer also DPS to a good level 15k to 25k? What type of support gear are they wearing? (Worm,gosmber,twilight,spell power tranmulation). The alternative is healer is more traditional to the cleric role or stutiable for trials. While the can heal for days. They won't be able to hurt a wasp. As to say same for tank. Either way it comes down to is DPS good enough. We need DPS training. A first unduaunted pledge run through.
What needs to improve
Zos tutorial - first unduaunted dungeon
DPS School
Dungeon DPS recommendation
DPS rating systemEdited by Tasear on March 3, 2017 6:42PM0 -
djdc1234✭✭✭i didn't start doing vet till 240 because people would always kick.. and i understand why. lack of experience and DPS/Heals, it would not be so back if the kick timer wasn't 15 Mins, 5 would be good0