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ZOS can you explain your thinking behind no CP
Cherryblossom
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I'm confused by the whole, we are removing CP to see if this is causing the Lag!
Does this mean the team now working on fixing the Lag, was not present before we had CP?
Like many here, that were here before CP we know there was Lag, CP was brought in after the Lag started!
Whilst it's possible that CP may not help, they still need to address the initial point at which the Lag started.
They have made a reference in the past, to everyone having only just got to max level when the lag started , which I disagree, as most of the skills which are referenced as having a high impact, most have before max level and were using before the Lag.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the whole Double AP and more challenging fights brought from having no CP, but I don't see the correlation to the Lag.
Does this mean the team now working on fixing the Lag, was not present before we had CP?
Like many here, that were here before CP we know there was Lag, CP was brought in after the Lag started!
Whilst it's possible that CP may not help, they still need to address the initial point at which the Lag started.
They have made a reference in the past, to everyone having only just got to max level when the lag started , which I disagree, as most of the skills which are referenced as having a high impact, most have before max level and were using before the Lag.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the whole Double AP and more challenging fights brought from having no CP, but I don't see the correlation to the Lag.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The gather data for studies on coding to fix the lag issue.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323521/cyrodiil-performance-test-and-double-ap-event/p1Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on February 28, 2017 11:58AM7 -
M0bi✭✭✭If I remember correctly... PvP lag started after some people were found to be speedhacking/ hacking in general really. ZoS implemented patch, and then I remember absolutely everyone started complaining about lag. Note: I do see a connection between the two but I could obviously be wrong.FOR THE DOMINION!!9 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Initially far more calculations was done by the client, however this made it easy to cheat so more is done on server, this require far more communication and give higher server load, then two zergs clashes each character might have over hundreds effect on them, mostly DoT and HoT and various buffs. Since lots of this is ground based the exact position of character and the effects are important.If I remember correctly... PvP lag started after some people were found to be speedhacking/ hacking in general really. ZoS implemented patch, and then I remember absolutely everyone started complaining about lag. Note: I do see a connection between the two but I could obviously be wrong.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
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Initially far more calculations was done by the client, however this made it easy to cheat so more is done on server, this require far more communication and give higher server load, then two zergs clashes each character might have over hundreds effect on them, mostly DoT and HoT and various buffs. Since lots of this is ground based the exact position of character and the effects are important.If I remember correctly... PvP lag started after some people were found to be speedhacking/ hacking in general really. ZoS implemented patch, and then I remember absolutely everyone started complaining about lag. Note: I do see a connection between the two but I could obviously be wrong.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, the initial cause. CP was far later than the Lag, so why attribute to CP!
They need to address the changes they made to defend against Botting which we now know didn't work as there are still Bots and Hacks in the game.0 -
Cherryblossom wrote: »
Initially far more calculations was done by the client, however this made it easy to cheat so more is done on server, this require far more communication and give higher server load, then two zergs clashes each character might have over hundreds effect on them, mostly DoT and HoT and various buffs. Since lots of this is ground based the exact position of character and the effects are important.If I remember correctly... PvP lag started after some people were found to be speedhacking/ hacking in general really. ZoS implemented patch, and then I remember absolutely everyone started complaining about lag. Note: I do see a connection between the two but I could obviously be wrong.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, the initial cause. CP was far later than the Lag, so why attribute to CP!
They need to address the changes they made to defend against Botting which we now know didn't work as there are still Bots and Hacks in the game.
As I understand it much code was moved from client side to server side because of cheats and this was the initial cause of the lag. Whilst there are still Bots and Hacks in the game there would be very many more without this change.
Since reversing this change would add many more Bots and Hacks then it isn't a sensible thing to do. Consequently other methods need to be tried. Testing for a week without CP is trialling one of those methods.
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ookami007✭✭✭✭✭
✭Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.1 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭The reason is likely that they are just grasping at straws, trying to find a way to revert us back to the launch period where cyrodiil ran smoothly, and it seems to be by trying to reverse engineer all the things they added since.1 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AoE cap and buff amounts are some of the largest contributers to the lag, call me crazy but when more and more people started stacking as many buffs as they could to maximise numbers that is when things started to show, CP made this go further because more numberwork.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Some people speculated earlier, that lag might be caused by AOE caps calculations. Was the lag better, before the AOE caps were introduced?0 -
megnin✭✭✭I seem to see more lag and load screen delay on characters with more skill points. They all have the same CP, but vary in the number of skill points they have.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hope this helps:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3851106/#Comment_3851106
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.
There is also a difference between graphical slowdowns and server lag.
What I tend to notice on Azura's is that my ping doesn't change during these battles even though I may have some graphical slowdowns.1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.
There is also a difference between graphical slowdowns and server lag.
What I tend to notice on Azura's is that my ping doesn't change during these battles even though I may have some graphical slowdowns.
But it's so much harder to say GET NEW SERVERSSSSS ZOSSSSSSSSE when you admit it is your own PC slowing things down!
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some people speculated earlier, that lag might be caused by AOE caps calculations.
AOE caps specifically reduce the number of calculations. For example calculating destro ulti on 6 or 12 or 20 people max, vs calculating this on 50 or 60 players.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »
After it looks at the 60 players in the ball around you and calculates which ones to hit? :P
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭From my perspective as a software developer..:
They keep seeing that TF is more laggy than Azura. I suspect this is a combination of customer feedback and their on stats on server load.
So - they have been looking at the obvious difference between the two: CP's - But they haven't found any obvious cause for the lag - so its either something that is really difficult to spot (and they probably believe this isn't the cause) - or they are barking up the wrong tree - and there is something different going on with the way players play in the two servers..
So. they are simply trying to prove if they are, in fact, barking up the wrong tree..Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.
There is also a difference between graphical slowdowns and server lag.
What I tend to notice on Azura's is that my ping doesn't change during these battles even though I may have some graphical slowdowns.
But it's so much harder to say GET NEW SERVERSSSSS ZOSSSSSSSSE when you admit it is your own PC slowing things down!
Ha. Yep.
I've got a beast of a machine, and I do still get graphical issues. But damn...my connection quality has been way better with no CP.
In fact, it makes me wonder...I seem to have MORE lag spikes in the normal zones (The Rift for example) than I have on Azura's Star...could it be that CP is slowing down the rest of the game as well?Edited by cjthibs on February 28, 2017 4:17PM1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.
There is also a difference between graphical slowdowns and server lag.
What I tend to notice on Azura's is that my ping doesn't change during these battles even though I may have some graphical slowdowns.
But it's so much harder to say GET NEW SERVERSSSSS ZOSSSSSSSSE when you admit it is your own PC slowing things down!
Ha. Yep.
I've got a beast of a machine, and I do still get graphical issues. But damn...my connection quality has been way better with no CP.
In fact, it makes me wonder...I seem to have MORE lag spikes in the normal zones (The Rift for example) than I have on Azura's Star...could it be that CP is slowing down the rest of the game as well?
It's funny how, the "PVP IS A SLIDESHOW" thing almost stops completely when you turn your graphics down and/or remove some of the intense addons. I don't have a beast of a computer, it's old now, but it'll still run the game in calm conditions at 60FPS+ on ultra graphics.
But TF was indeed the slideshow you see some people complain about. Turn down to medium and disable things like FTC/AUI floating combat and use the floating combat numbers available officially from the game, suddenly everything works, with 30-40 frames and a decent 100-130ish ping consistently.
I don't have a strong enough rig to run it at full and maintain frames, but that's no ones fault but my own, really. It's too bad more people don't understand that.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.
@hmsdragonfly
however this was not true in the early days. We used to have similar battles, whilst there was a drop in FPS, it was not the lag we now experience.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Things have been done to help remedy the lag after CP was introduced. However CP may be masking some or all (or none) of the fixes that have been made since that time.
That is why they are disabling them for the week.2 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Isn't there already campaigns that don't use CPs? Are we saying they don't have lag? Because I can tell you, as someone who has been in them... yes, they do indeed have lag. Is it as much? No. But I suspect that has less to do with the fact that there are no CPs and more to do with the fact that there are no CPs... so there are less people in there.
There you go. There will always be lag in 50v50 zerg battles. What they are trying to find out about is the massive lagspike that affects the whole server even when you are in the middle of nowhere.
There is also a difference between graphical slowdowns and server lag.
What I tend to notice on Azura's is that my ping doesn't change during these battles even though I may have some graphical slowdowns.
But it's so much harder to say GET NEW SERVERSSSSS ZOSSSSSSSSE when you admit it is your own PC slowing things down!
Ha. Yep.
I've got a beast of a machine, and I do still get graphical issues. But damn...my connection quality has been way better with no CP.
In fact, it makes me wonder...I seem to have MORE lag spikes in the normal zones (The Rift for example) than I have on Azura's Star...could it be that CP is slowing down the rest of the game as well?
It's funny how, the "PVP IS A SLIDESHOW" thing almost stops completely when you turn your graphics down and/or remove some of the intense addons. I don't have a beast of a computer, it's old now, but it'll still run the game in calm conditions at 60FPS+ on ultra graphics.
But TF was indeed the slideshow you see some people complain about. Turn down to medium and disable things like FTC/AUI floating combat and use the floating combat numbers available officially from the game, suddenly everything works, with 30-40 frames and a decent 100-130ish ping consistently.
I don't have a strong enough rig to run it at full and maintain frames, but that's no ones fault but my own, really. It's too bad more people don't understand that.
Yep. A lot of folks really don't understand how computers work either.
For example, an i7 doesn't buy you much on single-threaded applications (i.e. most games).
You're better off buying an i5 with a faster clock speed. (And it's cheaper.)
Also, ESO is very much bottlenecked with the processor, so a 1080 isn't going to do much better than a 960.
Download speed has nothing to do with performance, only bandwidth. Latency is what's key and no ISP guarantees that.
Most folks just see something going slow and immediately scream 'Y U HATE US ZOS?!' when it's probably something on their end to start with.1 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerIn addition to the forum post that Brian made (which was linked earlier in this thread), we also had him on ESO Live last Friday to discuss this week's test. You can check out the replay here:
https://youtu.be/C0JzJ9mbe6M?t=4m3s Gina Bruno
Principal Creator Engagement Manager
Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter | My Twitter17 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos explain their reasoning behind this test when they announced it. Seemed fairly clear and to the point.8 -
Raeph✭✭✭Lag has been the bane of MMOs since their inception. It's a catch all term for a variety of issues, and not easily identified and fixed because it's difficult to test internally. So it requires a systematic approach which often means eliminating variables and observing the results. That's what they are doing. If there was ever a straight line to the lag solution developers would always take it. But there isn't.
It is what it is.2 -
parkham✭✭✭I had to google what Trueflame was and then I had to sift through all the stuff about some sword until I finally realized Trueflame is a campaign in Cyrodiil. Now I have to google what campaigns are in ESO! I think I"m caught up now.
PC-NA-EST
- All's Faire Guild
- Divine Crusade Guild
- Greybeards & Gals Guild
- Dead Citizens Guild0 -
ColoursYouHave✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sordidfairytale wrote: »I want to see that heatmap.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing the heatmap just for curiosity's sake. @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert.0
