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Something disturbing in chat last night
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AnviOfVai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is insults in game tend to start off just as that, and then they escalate into something else, then your being stalked to the point where people begin to try and find out where you live, threaten your family to the point police can get involved. What you experienced should be reported. End of story. Some people have an iron mind who can blank responses and ignore players but sometimes an online player can hit you where it hurts, mental break downs are something that are not uncommon on games..shamefully.. Luckily as I got older I got my leveled up troll armor to the maximum level
"I appear at my lord's behest, or perhaps I was always here, and you merely lacked the ability to see me."
PS4 - EU
AD - Pet Sorcerer - Damage Dealer - 160
DC - Warden - Werewolf - in - progress - 160
DC - Templar - Tank - 160
DC - Sorcerer - Damage Dealer - in - progress
EP - Dragon Knight -Fire Tank - 160
EP - Nightblade - Damage Dealer - 1603 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »It's the internet nothing is serious need thicker skin people are cruel but oh well so is life.
On Bethesda's forums a while ago there was a poster who was having issues in rl. He posted a goodbye, and nice helpful people like you chimed in with equally helpful comments. His friends pmed the mods and Gstaff. The mods, and Gstaff did an incredible amount of searching and detecting to try and find him. No one found him until it was too late. His grandfather posted the funeral arrangements on facebook, and his obituary could be found in his local paper. Shortly after that the additional MentalHealth.gov banner showed up on the forums. Not a hoax or a prank.
Words can do just as much if not more damage than sticks and stones. Flippant remarks don't contribute much either.
I suspect the person in question was beyond helpful or negative comments on a post. Also, it's always easy to sit there and judge after the event. For every genuine cry for help out there, there will be 1000's of comments that are merely posted to garner some sort of attention.
As harsh as it may sound, an internet gaming forum shouldn't ever be what's standing between you and throwing yourself off a building etc.
I get what you're saying, I understand completely where you're coming from, but I suspect the result would have been the same whether people posted negatively or positively.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on February 24, 2017 11:13AM6 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »unless it's racist chat etc (some chat should never be tolerated no matter what)
???
So... "Go kill your self you worthless piece of s**t" falls under the "get a thicker skin guys, you're too weak"
And... "Go kill yourself you worthless piece of [insert skin color here] s**t" falls under the "unacceptable" ?
Consistency, guys, please...
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FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
That guy had more issues then mean ppl on the internet #truthFloppyTouch wrote: »It's the internet nothing is serious need thicker skin people are cruel but oh well so is life.
On Bethesda's forums a while ago there was a poster who was having issues in rl. He posted a goodbye, and nice helpful people like you chimed in with equally helpful comments. His friends pmed the mods and Gstaff. The mods, and Gstaff did an incredible amount of searching and detecting to try and find him. No one found him until it was too late. His grandfather posted the funeral arrangements on facebook, and his obituary could be found in his local paper. Shortly after that the additional MentalHealth.gov banner showed up on the forums. Not a hoax or a prank.
Words can do just as much if not more damage than sticks and stones. Flippant remarks don't contribute much either.
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »That guy had more issues then mean ppl on the internet #truth
Showing empathy will be useless 99% of the time. How do you know this time didn't belong to the 1% where it would have mattered ? How much does it cost to try ?
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »
That guy had more issues then mean ppl on the internet #truthFloppyTouch wrote: »It's the internet nothing is serious need thicker skin people are cruel but oh well so is life.
On Bethesda's forums a while ago there was a poster who was having issues in rl. He posted a goodbye, and nice helpful people like you chimed in with equally helpful comments. His friends pmed the mods and Gstaff. The mods, and Gstaff did an incredible amount of searching and detecting to try and find him. No one found him until it was too late. His grandfather posted the funeral arrangements on facebook, and his obituary could be found in his local paper. Shortly after that the additional MentalHealth.gov banner showed up on the forums. Not a hoax or a prank.
Words can do just as much if not more damage than sticks and stones. Flippant remarks don't contribute much either.
Almost certainly but that doesn't mean something like that may not be the final straw that pushes someone over that line.
Basically we mostly don't know the people behind the @names here what situations they may or may not have irl... so why not err on the side of not being a massive arse?Edited by Tavore1138 on February 24, 2017 11:35AM7 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »It's the internet nothing is serious need thicker skin people are cruel but oh well so is life.
On Bethesda's forums a while ago there was a poster who was having issues in rl. He posted a goodbye, and nice helpful people like you chimed in with equally helpful comments. His friends pmed the mods and Gstaff. The mods, and Gstaff did an incredible amount of searching and detecting to try and find him. No one found him until it was too late. His grandfather posted the funeral arrangements on facebook, and his obituary could be found in his local paper. Shortly after that the additional MentalHealth.gov banner showed up on the forums. Not a hoax or a prank.
Words can do just as much if not more damage than sticks and stones. Flippant remarks don't contribute much either.
I suspect the person in question was beyond helpful or negative comments on a post. Also, it's always easy to sit there and judge after the event. For every genuine cry for help out there, there will be 1000's of comments that are merely posted to garner some sort of attention.
As harsh as it may sound, an internet gaming forum shouldn't ever be what's standing between you and throwing yourself off a building etc.
I get what you're saying, I understand completely where you're coming from, but I suspect the result would have been the same whether people posted negatively or positively.
True. His grandfather's facebook entry said as much. Always a what if?, however. If he could have been delayed just a little longer would he have been found in time? If he would have listened to his friends, who were worried and frantic. Did the flip comments encourage him to move just a little faster?FloppyTouch wrote: »That guy had more issues then mean ppl on the internet #truth
Yes, he did. "Mean people" piling on didn't really improve things. Nothing is ever so bad that *** comments can't make it worse.5 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tavore1138 wrote: »why not err on the side of not being a massive arse?
Could it be that some people don't even know how to behave respectfully, nicely or to show empathy ? If they've never been shown how, if they've never had an example to follow, irl, online or anywhere, that would well be the case. Which why I'll never advocate for "get a thicker skin, ignore and move along". Because thick skins, while admittedly protecting people, is also what makes them insensitive.
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Zyrudin✭✭✭✭Just want to add this:
The internet is not a substitute for real life relationships...
...for anyone.4 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just want to add this:
The internet is not a substitute for real life relationships...
...for anyone.
True, but internet relationships are relationships nonetheless and should be treated as such.
Nowadays people work together over the internet, fall in love over the internet, make politics over the internet, access culture over the internet. And play together over the internet.
They're all very real people and very real situations, and very real feelings.
100 years ago people probably said "talking over the phone isn't real talking, only face-to-face conversations matter". Now noone makes a difference between words face to face and words over the phone.
(That being said, going out and communicating with people in flesh and bones is important too, and everyone should keep a healthy balance, I agree).
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Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
The nursery rhyme is just that. It's irrelevant unfortunately when one is learned in psychology. What's way more relevant to real people is "People will forget what you say, they will forget what you do , they will NEVER forget how you made them feel".
Suicide even in joking is a slippery slope that I'd not partake in. Especially in an Anonymous venture such as an online MMO.1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Tavore1138 wrote: »why not err on the side of not being a massive arse?
Could it be that some people don't even know how to behave respectfully, nicely or to show empathy ? If they've never been shown how, if they've never had an example to follow, irl, online or anywhere, that would well be the case. Which why I'll never advocate for "get a thicker skin, ignore and move along". Because thick skins, while admittedly protecting people, is also what makes them insensitive.
Agreed - I don't like giving this stuff a free pass if only because accepting it just means more people come along and behave in the same way, 'courageous' in their anonymity... mistakenly believing that relative freedom of speech means they will be praised for saying bad things.
In my own experience they are often the most special of special snowflakes when you actually challenge them because they are the sheltered over privileged ones that have never had to deal with the consequences of their bad behaviour, when challenged they are first to run to a mod and complain that someone was mean to them for being mean.
Of course you have to walk a fine line because you don't want to become the problem...Just want to add this:
The internet is not a substitute for real life relationships...
...for anyone.
Hmmm, actually it is not a substitute but an extension of real life... you *do* realise that we are real people? Right? Not just NPCs in your crazy game of life?
You can talk to people you live near using the internet and you can meet people on the internet who can become people you meet and socialise with offline... it's dangerous to use such simplistic comments as an excuse to pretend those you could choose to mistreat aren't real.Edited by Tavore1138 on February 24, 2017 12:12PM4 -
RoyalPink06✭✭✭✭✭I appreciate that you care enough about the incident to post about it. It's nice to know that there are good people playing this game who stand up for the little guys.
If you took screenshots, you can still report it. I would have. I've said before on another thread, general trolling or being a piece of sh** can be ignored, but specifically telling another person to kill themselves should not be tolerated. A decent human being would never tell another human being to kill themselves. Plus, a little disturbing to add the part about "watching a mother bury her child", don't ya think? Dude could be pretty deranged in real life.
NA PS41 -
Rittings✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
In your parents' day they didn't have the internet, where bullying and those "words" are now a relentless 24/7 - 365 days a year. They used to be able to go home to their "safe haven" and shut the door on it all. I can't understand how people cannot see this fact - or just plain choose to ignore it.1 -
Rittings✭✭✭✭✭
✭If I made a thread for every time somebody said "kys" on the internet...
I think the OP wasn't talking a general "kys" in this instance. It seems more detailed, and a lot more intense and cruel. We need to learn to recognize the difference between someone just retorting in an angry and frustrated fashion, and someone systematically and intentionally demoralizing a person in this manner. It's highly disturbing when we cannot see that difference... or choose to ignore it. I think it is this ignorance that is leading us down the dark path.2 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »unless it's racist chat etc (some chat should never be tolerated no matter what)
???
So... "Go kill your self you worthless piece of s**t" falls under the "get a thicker skin guys, you're too weak"
And... "Go kill yourself you worthless piece of [insert skin color here] s**t" falls under the "unacceptable" ?
Consistency, guys, please...
It is what it is in real life. People have been persecuted and continue to be persecuted because of their race, sexual orientation etc, yet I haven't heard anyone being persecuted because some troll on the net spews immature tripe that is common place in school play grounds. So aye, a thicker skin is required for most verbal onslaughts we receive in life.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's always the option to unplug the 'net.
Like there's always an option for people to not go out at night at all if they want to be safe ?
Sorry but that's the wrong approach.
Streets should be safer and the internet should be safer. People should be able to play a fantasy video game without having to face hatred. Stop giving bad people excuses.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 24, 2017 12:20PM5 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well it is why it's illegal to encourage suicide in my country, it goes for online as well but it is not regulated, so people still make jokes like that.Tavore1138 wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »
That guy had more issues then mean ppl on the internet #truthFloppyTouch wrote: »It's the internet nothing is serious need thicker skin people are cruel but oh well so is life.
On Bethesda's forums a while ago there was a poster who was having issues in rl. He posted a goodbye, and nice helpful people like you chimed in with equally helpful comments. His friends pmed the mods and Gstaff. The mods, and Gstaff did an incredible amount of searching and detecting to try and find him. No one found him until it was too late. His grandfather posted the funeral arrangements on facebook, and his obituary could be found in his local paper. Shortly after that the additional MentalHealth.gov banner showed up on the forums. Not a hoax or a prank.
Words can do just as much if not more damage than sticks and stones. Flippant remarks don't contribute much either.
Almost certainly but that doesn't mean something like that may not be the final straw that pushes someone over that line.
Basically we mostly don't know the people behind the @names here what situations they may or may not have irl... so why not err on the side of not being a massive arse?
Just in general if a person so weak, that people who joke or banter online is enough to push them over the line, then he or she should probably stay away from the internet and get some serious help. Because they are obviously not able to recognize a joke for what it is, misread intentions and are not able to regulate what they should get let themselves be affected by, and how much.
Also this is a game, I sometimes advice people to suicide, because their health bars are messed up or they are skill locked. It's ment to suicide with their ingame character, not in real life.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »Just in general if a person so weak, that people who joke or banter online is enough to push them over the line, then he or she should probably stay away from the internet and get some serious help.
Responsibility is often shared, never 100% on one side. That's why noone should transfer their share of responsibility onto the other side.failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »Also this is a game, I sometimes advice people to suicide, because their health bars are messed up or they are skill locked. It's ment to suicide with their ingame character, not in real life.
But in that case you don't add that their mother should watch it, do you ?
(That being said, I agree that context matters).
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 24, 2017 12:24PM0 -
Junipus✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »unless it's racist chat etc (some chat should never be tolerated no matter what)
???
So... "Go kill your self you worthless piece of s**t" falls under the "get a thicker skin guys, you're too weak"
And... "Go kill yourself you worthless piece of [insert skin color here] s**t" falls under the "unacceptable" ?
Consistency, guys, please...
It is what it is in real life. People have been persecuted and continue to be persecuted because of their race, sexual orientation etc, yet I haven't heard anyone being persecuted because some troll on the net spews immature tripe that is common place in school play grounds. So aye, a thicker skin is required for most verbal onslaughts we receive in life.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/isabella-sorley-john-nimmo-interview?utm_term=.rdzb5EXQW9#.ls2alGPwDJ
Page 3 - http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Careless-Whisper.pdfThe Legendary Nothing1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »I haven't heard anyone being persecuted because some troll on the net spews immature tripe that is common place in school play grounds.
You're not very well informed, then. People are being persecuted everyday in schoolyards, at work, because of whatever (being less efficient, being more efficient, being tall, being short, having red hair, or simply for no reason at all except that their "group" decided it was fun to target someone together).
Persecution is bad - whether for racial, opinion, or whatever reason. No exception.
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RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't normally pay much attention to chat, but I was glancing at it while I was passing the time waiting for a Dolmen to start up. I don't have the full name of the person who made these comments and if I did, I'm still not sure how I would report it. This person was telling someone that they should commit suicide and that they would like to see the person's mother have to watch as her child was put into the ground.
As a mother and as a widow, this disturbed me on so many levels. I wasn't going to say anything about it at all, but I couldn't get it off of my mind. I thought that sharing it might ease my mind some. I'm not trolling and I'm not trying to start trouble. I know better than to think that everyone is always going to get along, but everybody deserves more respect than that. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to unload.
Any normal person would be bothered by someone making such heinous comments, computer or not. Im sorry you had to read such vile disgusting hate in an online game.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
chriss23✭✭I believe it's the right course of action to report players who are using chat this way and was appalled by what had been said. I reported a couple of players the other evening for using bad language and also making overtly sexual references (body parts/gang bangs etc). I know people talk like this sometimes but I don't like to have to see it.
The ESO population must be a very diverse one with a big age range (i'm 61 and I know there are plenty of oldies like me in Tamriel!) and personality type; like any society, whether online or in the 'real world' needs to learn how to behave in ways which don't cause distress to others. Zenimax seem to take these things seriously which is great but it's up to us to make these incidents know to them so they can act accordingly.
Glad CMFan1966 could use the forum to offload!
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Coakknows✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »There's always the option to unplug the 'net.
Like there's always an option for people to not go out at night at all if they want to be safe ?
Sorry but that's the wrong approach.
Streets should be safer and the internet should be safer. People should be able to play a fantasy video game without having to face hatred. Stop giving bad people excuses.
I'm not excusing it but there's nothing we can do about. People are capable of being offensive. An mmo is the ideal place for someone to get to do so.
If someone is so sensitive that stupid in-game chat gets to them, I'd suggest that they stick to single-player games. It's not right, no, but it's there and if you choose to play the game, well, you'll see some offensive nonsense.
We have the right to be offended by something, we don't have the right to remove everything that we find offensive.
Edited by Coakknows on February 24, 2017 12:36PM3 -
Jaeysa✭✭✭✭✭This sounds pointedly targeted - not knowing if the 'kill yourself' was to someone saying they hard cast crystal fragments or something more personal like they just came out to their folks and got kicked out of the house, who knows what kind of effect the words are.
And yes, in a perfect world, words not given by someone you care about/respect don't hurt.
This isn't a perfect world. It's a world populated by people who are just bumbling along, tripping over each other as we go. It's human nature to care about what others think, at least a little bit.
No one is in the exact same spot in their life - not everyone is 'strong' enough to just shrug off someone's words, when they are said specifically to them about something they care about. After you've been kicked often enough, you start to think you deserve it, and after a while the original words start to be just one more encouragement.PC/NA: Primarily Daggerfall Covenant.
Lennie: Breton Sorceror. 9-trait crafter on everything, purveyor of useless frippery.0 -
AgriyaTheGrey✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »
Are you saying I'm a cruel person bc I said life is cruel? That's a bold thing to say when you know nothing about me.
I made a general comment about what I've observed. As you were the one that had said 'life is cruel' most recently in the thread, I quoted your useage of it for the sake of a) continuity, and b) convenience (not necessarily in that order). I wouldn't presume to make a specific comment about the character of someone I don't know, but I will and do make comments on what I see people doing, and on what I see people posting.
Right now I see you chiming into a thread with the statement that 'thicker skins are needed' and then behaving incredibly thin-skinned yourself, choosing to interpret my comment as a criticism of your personal character rather than the generality it was intended to be.
To be clear, last time I wasn't talking about you: this time I am specifically talking about your comments in this thread. In neither instance do I assume that it is possible to impute any of your personal character flaws (and you will have flaws: we all do*) on the basis of what you have posted: it is only possible to see that your contribution to this specific thread has been inconsistent with your own stated view.
(*My own main flaw is an unfortunate tendency towards both the verbose and the pompous. But I let myself off the hook because there's a self-mocking little twinkle in my eye when I do it.)
-Group Captain Sir Douglas Robert Steuart Bader CBE DSO DFC FRAeS DLRules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
-The Lun YuIf a man is correct in his own person, then there will be obedience without orders being given; but if he is not correct in his own person, there will not be obedience even though orders are given.2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
Thats simply nonsense.
You would NEVER get away with saying this to someone IRL...you would either be fired from your job, kicked out of school, or you would be be eating your dinner though a straw for 8 weeks.
This type of behavior simply should not be tolerated under any circumstances internet or not. This person should have been permabanned, no exceptions, gone...even if they create a new account, banned....An Atmosphere of ZERO tolerance for this type of behavior needs to be established...
You can not allow people to simply get away with this. Anyone who says something like this to another person should lose their ESO privileges for good period.
This is the most vile dusgusting behavior you could never to see in the community, and it simply has no place here at all. It also doesn't need enabling by being lax or doing nothing about it either.
Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on February 24, 2017 12:49PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Click on the person's name in chat. You will be given an option to report them. ZoS seems to have removed the ability to EASILY add a screenshot so be sure you put your time and location on the report so they can more easily check the logs.
2. Click on their name again and put them on /ignore.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, OP should report the behavior for obvious reasons.
My personal internet motto is to never take anything anyone says on the internet seriously. (Exceptions of course being people I actually know in real life.)
I don't think that anyone actually intends for someone to harm themselves. At least I should hope not. The thing that people need to keep in mind is you don't know someone's state of mind. They could be dealing with the loss of a loved one, abuse, self esteem issues. They could be suicidal. You don't know. And if you tell them to harm themselves, they may just go and do that.
Do you want to live the rest of your life knowing that you are responsible for the death of another human being?
I didn't think so.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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