Getting kicked from Veteran Dungeons

zaria · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

Did normal CoA a few days ago, tank with a one hand sword and nothing in left hand.
Did not notice first, it was simply to implausible, its not something you see outside of the starting island.
No the other dps was not very good either and I'm mediocre.

kargen27 · February 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

We kicked a 55cp DPS out of vCoS and he was pissed. I didn't feel bad about it at all. Told him to come back at the appropriate level.

It takes very little time to go to the first boss and see how they do. If after first boss it is obvious they are not going to do what needs done then just let them know hey we aren't going to get through this. That way if you do end up kicking them at least they got to try and won't have quite so long to wait to try another group if they want.

MissBizz · February 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

As others have said, Cradle is understandable. I wouldn't really want to do any of the DLC dungeons on vet (especially not on vet hard mode) with anyone below about CP200-300 unless I'd run with them before and knew that they were significantly above average players.

Selene's Web though... Sure, on vet hard mode it's one of the tougher non-DLC dungeons, but it's not that bad. I've done it with me (CP capped) tanking, a healer who was close to CP cap but not there yet, and 2 DPS who were both below CP160 (I think one was at about 80 and the other was at about 140), neither of whom had much dungeon experience (it was only their 2nd ever vet dungeon), 1 of whom played entirely in first person, and the other one being colour blind making it difficult to see the red to keep out of it. If we could do it with that group (ie. 2 experienced and probably above average but not elite players with high CPs, and 2 inexperienced players with low CPs and several disadvantages) then an average group should be able to do it no problem with someone who's below 200 CP, but at least has max-level gear.

That brings me a smile. I've done it with our own guildies where I was basically soloing the whole place. As healer, tank and DPS on separate occasions. I am certainly no elite player.

I wouldn't even briefly consider doing vCOS with a CP 160 character, but then again I wouldn't use the LFG tool for it in the first place. I am baffled by the whole thought of other players being expected to have to run with anyone they don't want to.

No mercy to the first person POV players though. I wouldn't even do a delve with one.

The 2 low CP DPS players in my story are RL friends of mine (which is why I know one is colour blind and the other always plays in first person with a controller - and also why I know exactly how many vet dungeons they've done), while the healer was a guildie. The low CP players were physically in the room with me for the run lol. Also, they may have been slightly drunk at the time

Don't talk about drunk in dungeons. I did an guild run, all was on TS, it was pretty obvious everyone was drinking and getting more drunk.
Nobody wanted to chicken out, that would imply loosing face. This was during the VR14 time, we used four hours

I don't think I've ever done a dungeon with @MissBizz when she wasn't drinking

and maybe, just maybe I was too for one or two of them

There's been plenty of sober dungeons! Maybe I just don't invite you during those lol.

@UrQuan CHECK DISCORD ITS IMPORTANT

MythicEmperor · February 2017

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

Just Elite's thinking they can kick people as they please. Personally I think these players should get soft-banned for this kind of behaviour. CP discrimination should be a reportable offense.

If you make your own group then you have full-right to kick someone based on their CP, but if you're using the dungeon finder tool, you have no right whatsoever to kick anybody based on their CP. If they suck, sure, but let them show you what they can do before you kick them.

I definitely agree that kicking players for no reason is wrong (unless you are doing vCoS or vWGT), but soft-bans? "CP discrimination"? Really? I think you are taking this a bit too far.

On the other hand, #lowcplivesmatter

kargen27 · February 2017

The problem with group finder is a lack of options. The high level players use it because they want a quick run as they are farming gear or whatever.

The lower level characters might be trying to make their first run and will want to do associated quests and all that.

The two do not mix.

There should be an option to select speed run/leisure run or something like that when you queue for a dungeon. That way players with different goals in mind won't clash so often.

zaria · February 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

As others have said, Cradle is understandable. I wouldn't really want to do any of the DLC dungeons on vet (especially not on vet hard mode) with anyone below about CP200-300 unless I'd run with them before and knew that they were significantly above average players.

Selene's Web though... Sure, on vet hard mode it's one of the tougher non-DLC dungeons, but it's not that bad. I've done it with me (CP capped) tanking, a healer who was close to CP cap but not there yet, and 2 DPS who were both below CP160 (I think one was at about 80 and the other was at about 140), neither of whom had much dungeon experience (it was only their 2nd ever vet dungeon), 1 of whom played entirely in first person, and the other one being colour blind making it difficult to see the red to keep out of it. If we could do it with that group (ie. 2 experienced and probably above average but not elite players with high CPs, and 2 inexperienced players with low CPs and several disadvantages) then an average group should be able to do it no problem with someone who's below 200 CP, but at least has max-level gear.

That brings me a smile. I've done it with our own guildies where I was basically soloing the whole place. As healer, tank and DPS on separate occasions. I am certainly no elite player.

I wouldn't even briefly consider doing vCOS with a CP 160 character, but then again I wouldn't use the LFG tool for it in the first place. I am baffled by the whole thought of other players being expected to have to run with anyone they don't want to.

No mercy to the first person POV players though. I wouldn't even do a delve with one.

The 2 low CP DPS players in my story are RL friends of mine (which is why I know one is colour blind and the other always plays in first person with a controller - and also why I know exactly how many vet dungeons they've done), while the healer was a guildie. The low CP players were physically in the room with me for the run lol. Also, they may have been slightly drunk at the time

Don't talk about drunk in dungeons. I did an guild run, all was on TS, it was pretty obvious everyone was drinking and getting more drunk.
Nobody wanted to chicken out, that would imply loosing face. This was during the VR14 time, we used four hours

I don't think I've ever done a dungeon with @MissBizz when she wasn't drinking

and maybe, just maybe I was too for one or two of them

One guy in wow was useless in raids unless drunk. I assume he was an tank and was to cautions.

pod88kk · February 2017

If you leave you should be punished not if you're kicked

zaria · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

We kicked a 55cp DPS out of vCoS and he was pissed. I didn't feel bad about it at all. Told him to come back at the appropriate level.

It takes very little time to go to the first boss and see how they do. If after first boss it is obvious they are not going to do what needs done then just let them know hey we aren't going to get through this. That way if you do end up kicking them at least they got to try and won't have quite so long to wait to try another group if they want.

Trash is an better test, this one cheats in dropping lots of aoe on them but has issues with rotation with DoT on bosses.
Yes it an issue of training.

zaria · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

The problem with group finder is a lack of options. The high level players use it because they want a quick run as they are farming gear or whatever.

The lower level characters might be trying to make their first run and will want to do associated quests and all that.

The two do not mix.

There should be an option to select speed run/leisure run or something like that when you queue for a dungeon. That way players with different goals in mind won't clash so often.

Yes, but that would not help as lots of idiots would select veteran speed run and do light attacks.
Telling that you have not done the dungeon before and would like to do quest and get info on boss tactic is no issue.
My idea of having an counter of dungeon experience would work better.

raglau · February 2017

Vet Selene's is a walk in the park and easily doable by any competent CP player. Vet CoS is a different matter although I'd personally never kick anyone based upon level alone, I try first boss and if the team cannot do it I politely make my excuses and leave. I always explain why they'll fail, which is invariably DPS being too low.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2017

I only vote kick when someone goes AFK and then offline. But even then I wait like 2 - 3 min, because maybe he got DC, and now he/she is now booting the game again. It is faster to wait for DC to come back than to search someone else who will join in (and sometimes when player joins the game and sees that it is half completed dungeon they just leave the party and you have to search another person).

I did all dungeons in normal an maybe like 2 on veteran mode. On veteran I had no problems. More frequent I see people to vote kick on normal. Especially DPS - who is ALWAYS angry on healer & tank xD

If I join through group finder I don't expect people to be "best" at DPS, Tank or Healer. I expect them to know nothing about the boss fight mechanics which is in some cases different in veteran mode.

jakeyura · February 2017

For the people asking about my build I'm DPS Stamina NB with 5 piece Spriggans, 5 piece Hundings rage. Medium 5-1-1 setup, run max Stam/health food and tristat potions.

Dual wield Sharpened Spriggans swords (gold)
Use flurry, steel tornado, surprise attack, ambush,

2h on back bar for buffs/vigor/Rally

And like I said, it really doesn't matter what my build is/does because I get kicked before I get the chance to attack something

kargen27 · February 2017

zaria wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

The problem with group finder is a lack of options. The high level players use it because they want a quick run as they are farming gear or whatever.

The lower level characters might be trying to make their first run and will want to do associated quests and all that.

The two do not mix.

There should be an option to select speed run/leisure run or something like that when you queue for a dungeon. That way players with different goals in mind won't clash so often.

Yes, but that would not help as lots of idiots would select veteran speed run and do light attacks.
Telling that you have not done the dungeon before and would like to do quest and get info on boss tactic is no issue.
My idea of having an counter of dungeon experience would work better.

In that case kick away. If they sign up for a speed run and it is obvious they belong anywhere but there that is their own fault. Going off on a tangent another problem is the big difference in normal and vet in dungeons. Not a game problem but a player problem. People run a normal dungeon and just sail through it easy. They assume that means they are ready for vet. What makes the problem worse is sometimes they get in with a really high DPS that can just burn normal with no need to worry about mechanics so they never learn the proper way to fight. We have a couple of people in our guild I help through normal dungeons. With my healer I am doing about 60% of the damage and every time we finish one of them says we could have done this on vet mode easy. I tell him nope this group isn't ready for that yet but sometimes I let them try anyway. Usually we fail. When we get through it takes much much longer than it should. I try when running with them to let them figure things out and give them advice when needed. For some reason I can't convince them that when someone goes down a DPS needs to be the one to get them up. We have a few things like that to work out before that group is ready for vet stuff.

The dungeon counter might be a good idea but throwing a wrench in the works my example above. To many people are getting carried through the normal dungeons and don't know how to deal with mechanics when they make the step up.

Would be cool if the dungeon finder tried to pool people based in part on level, but that might cause really bad wait times again.

parkham · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

The problem with group finder is a lack of options. The high level players use it because they want a quick run as they are farming gear or whatever.

The lower level characters might be trying to make their first run and will want to do associated quests and all that.

The two do not mix.

There should be an option to select speed run/leisure run or something like that when you queue for a dungeon. That way players with different goals in mind won't clash so often.

This It would be cool.

@zaria

My idea of having an counter of dungeon experience would work better.

This would be cool too. Even cooler (or maybe embarrassing for some, like me) would also should your deaths in dungeon too! ha

Jemcrystal · February 2017

Let non-elitists back in the dungeon scene.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

Jemcrystal wrote: »

Let non-elitists back in the dungeon scene.

Morgan Freeman: "They said hoping some imaginary authority figure would hear. There was no response."

LadyLavina · February 2017

jakeyura wrote: »

I've been mostly trying Selene's Web and Cradle of Shadows. I really want a Velidreth or Selene undaunted set for my stamblade.

Cradle of Shadows Vet, yeah you're going to be kicked @ 180 unfortunately. While I don't doubt you at all, and I don't think the players kicking you have anything against you, higher cp is usually preferred for that dungeon. As far as Selene's goes, that's ridiculous, they shouldn't kick there.

flguy147ub17_ESO · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

The problem with group finder is a lack of options. The high level players use it because they want a quick run as they are farming gear or whatever.

The lower level characters might be trying to make their first run and will want to do associated quests and all that.

The two do not mix.

There should be an option to select speed run/leisure run or something like that when you queue for a dungeon. That way players with different goals in mind won't clash so often.

I like this idea, Call it speed run and Quest Run or something. Its a win/win for everybody and also people doing the Quest run will get a chance to learn the mechanics at their own pace and honestly i would even jump in to help players sometimes for fun. The more people in the game that knows all the mechanics the better off the game and grouping will be in general.

SquareSausage · February 2017

Look its simple, people make assumptions on your CP, low CP generally means new player, low skill, poor output. No-one wants to waste their own time trying to carry people through content that is hard. Its human nature to want to take path of least resistance and that is generally with high CP players.

Earn more CP and come back or get a guild run, thats the only real options you have.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

We kicked a 55cp DPS out of vCoS and he was pissed. I didn't feel bad about it at all. Told him to come back at the appropriate level.

If it was a random then he had no choice in what dungeon he was assigned. You should feel bad for being a jerk.

Why should I, we weren't going to complete vCoS with a cp55. Maybe LFG tool shouldn't put them in there at far to low of a level for it. Not worth wasting the time of 3 people and clearly everyone agreed. Just do a normal random at that level.

I think what you mean to say is yoi can't complete vcos with a lvl 55 at your guy's current level of skill and experience. I did it vhm last night eith only 2dps and 1 tank. I don't think a lvl 55 lurking about would have hurt us any.

But then who's to blame? The lvl 55 or you for not being able to run it with a lvl 55? I guess that's just a matter of perspective though. Tbh tho, some people use the lfg tool hoping to get lucky and find folks to help them learn things like cos. I vote for giving them a try first.

mewcatus · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

zaria wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

As others have said, Cradle is understandable. I wouldn't really want to do any of the DLC dungeons on vet (especially not on vet hard mode) with anyone below about CP200-300 unless I'd run with them before and knew that they were significantly above average players.

Selene's Web though... Sure, on vet hard mode it's one of the tougher non-DLC dungeons, but it's not that bad. I've done it with me (CP capped) tanking, a healer who was close to CP cap but not there yet, and 2 DPS who were both below CP160 (I think one was at about 80 and the other was at about 140), neither of whom had much dungeon experience (it was only their 2nd ever vet dungeon), 1 of whom played entirely in first person, and the other one being colour blind making it difficult to see the red to keep out of it. If we could do it with that group (ie. 2 experienced and probably above average but not elite players with high CPs, and 2 inexperienced players with low CPs and several disadvantages) then an average group should be able to do it no problem with someone who's below 200 CP, but at least has max-level gear.

That brings me a smile. I've done it with our own guildies where I was basically soloing the whole place. As healer, tank and DPS on separate occasions. I am certainly no elite player.

I wouldn't even briefly consider doing vCOS with a CP 160 character, but then again I wouldn't use the LFG tool for it in the first place. I am baffled by the whole thought of other players being expected to have to run with anyone they don't want to.

No mercy to the first person POV players though. I wouldn't even do a delve with one.

The 2 low CP DPS players in my story are RL friends of mine (which is why I know one is colour blind and the other always plays in first person with a controller - and also why I know exactly how many vet dungeons they've done), while the healer was a guildie. The low CP players were physically in the room with me for the run lol. Also, they may have been slightly drunk at the time

Don't talk about drunk in dungeons. I did an guild run, all was on TS, it was pretty obvious everyone was drinking and getting more drunk.
Nobody wanted to chicken out, that would imply loosing face. This was during the VR14 time, we used four hours

That reminds me of running with my old fave guild way back when. We'd be farming wgt trying to get our kena helmets, healer drunk trying to breath of life the portals to death. Then realizing he wasnt even assigmed portals.

Another time we did dailies right, same guy but this time he was dps. We finish the dungeons and he askes if anyome wants to do dailies (10 sed after doing dailies). Then admits he doesn't know where his character is and is feeling scared and confused suddenly.

We had this other guy, who drank a looooot, yet was somehow much better than the average guildie even while being highly intoxicated.

good times.

IronCrystal · February 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

It's not the healers job? But that is the only thing a healer is remotely good for O_o This is why we pug without a healer. X_X

SquareSausage · February 2017

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ep1kMalware · February 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??

Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.

mewcatus · February 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?

SquareSausage · February 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Orbs in a dungeon lol.

Ikr. I completely understand not everyone is going to have spc (it's a must for trials, but one should have more relaxed standards for vet dungeons. Lets have fun.) But what ever happened to things like combat prayer and healing springs? Shards? Something??

Most healers spam wet noodle repentence, use no major mending, jesus beam mobs, and die a lot. Gimme a 2nd tank or 3rd dps instead and I'f be happier.

I think we need to understand, most people doing random dungeons or queuing for specific dungeons probably wont be fully geared and looking for their set items or exp so is a far cry from trials healing.

TBh i think people should expect the worst and go into a dungeon prepared to self sustain, heavy attack when low, drink a pot, whatever, fights are over so quick anyway unless as what post was talking about players like OP who are prob not ready for Vet DLC dungeons.

derpmander · February 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

As a main Tank cp667 who has had lower CP's struggle with Vet Selene's I have carried many who were not prepared through Selenes to have it fall apart on the last boss due to not having the DPS because of CP to burn the adds, not using AOE abilities on adds, or not having the DPS to burn the boss fast enough.

Ultimately you want the Helm. I get that. I'd run with a set group of people. If the group finder was the only option then yeah that might be more of a problem.

Others asked your class and basic build which you did not answer as far as I could see.

Hopefully you are not one of those who is using ONLY single target abilities to attack groups of mobs making trash pulls take forever. Most groups can tell on the 1st trash pull if your DPS is lacking or if you are spamming one ability that will make the run a living hell for all. A good group can carry you through many dungeons. But its not an entitlement.

Most people of 600+ cp have war stories of bad groups and the leading cause of wipe's.

History...and why people get kicked and the lack of patience as it didn't come out of just being mean..

- We've all seen cp300+ Sorcs hard cast Crystal Frags over and over until Out of Magica, then Light attack. :'(
- We've all seen Destro staff users not use Wall of Elements (morphs) or not use sorcs Liquid lightning etc
- We've seen Bow used to repeatedly spam Snipe morphs - same result trash pulls take forever...
- We've seen 2hand used as main with Wrecking blow spam on pulls , you get the picture...
- We've see people stand in Red or worse , Black circles until death causing healers to quit the group as God cannot heal through that type of damage.
- We've seen low cp's get the frequent "random attack" from Boss and watch them run away from tank/healer out of range causing the Boss to reset twice... Kick'em vote ensues...

That's when or why alot of lower cp's get kicked. I personally wait to see how things are going through the first boss as I'm a glutton for punishment as most tanks are...

As a 672 Mag sorc DPS I was in a terrible pug group just last-night doing SC2.

1. Tank was using 2hand as his primary, and wasn't taunting boss which caused us to wipe a few times during the boss (Bloodspawn) fight.
2. The Mag DPS sorcs (The other DPS) kept spamming crystal frags approx 5 to 6 times.... wasn't using AOE for adds... no formal rotation whatsoever.
3. Healer while they did do their jobs in healing..... didn't have mystic orbs as part of their rotation, and therefor I was struggling to sustain myself because I was burning through my resource twice as hard. I was essentially carrying the entire group due to me being the most experienced player.

It is NOT the healer's job to give u buffs for ur mana sustain. I do healers. And I tell dps to handle their own mana sutain. IF they can't even get that right, they are just feeders. Its like a baby who needs feeding all the time. I only provide heals and protection/damage buffs. But I draw the line at resource managment. Anyone who can't handle their own resource managment, yet dare to brag about their dps, should be left to die a horrible deaths.

Back on topic. I generally discourage anyone below 160 from doing vet, simply because they will hate themselves if they get good gear on the run, and it turns out non optimal. But otherwise, its fair game for me.

You will never pass as a healer in vet trial with that attitude.

Even in dungeons, the dps people can pull by being supplied resources is far more than I could supply as a healer if I dropped those abilities.

Good luck if ur healer dies. Then you are *** out of luck, no resources and just a dead meat without any sustains on ur own. I strongly discourage dps builds with low self sustain. They are optimized only for best case scenarios. They are crap in the worst case scenarios, like say when wipes occur. And how often do things go south, even in a good group ?

Its "healers" like u that make me run with 4 DPS pledges. I rather have another DPS than a useless deadweight dude. Lets get this straight healers are VENDING MACHINES for DPS/tank resources. If u cant provide that ur not a healer in my eyes.

Volrion · February 2017

Honestly I think you're being a little selfish expecting people to carry you.

I personally didn't start doing vet pugs until I hit 300cp as I didn't want to let my prospective teammates down.

It goes both ways man.