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My thoughts on Warden and the direction Zos is headed
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Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Token speculation aside, you're not really enlightening us with some major revelation. Is this your first MMO? When has there ever been a new class introduced in an mmo that wasn't considered to be overtuned the first month or so of its lifespan?
FFXIV MCH says hi.
I will believe you because I honestly don't know what that is.
Edited by Callous2208 on February 23, 2017 8:44PM0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
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Who said anything about panic? Its basic MMO strategy. This thread is less about warden and more about the big picture if they introduce class change. They said no lottery crates and we have loot crates, they said crafted armor would be Bis and they said subscriber's would have access to all content and now we have expansions "chapters". Money talks and they will bend all previous statements to meet their current agenda.
Short version since I'm on phone:
I think it's wayyyyy too soon to start speculating about this.
ZOS already made it clear that there isn't going to be a class change
You're right though: ZOS did eat their words several times before, and they may do so in this case again.
But that time will be much later, more than likely when they introduce many more classes to the game and know that they're performing well.
A class change has never been tied to buying an additional box yet. This is a decision that may very well end up being made in the executive suites looking at the sale numbers.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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WTS Gold tinfoil hat 10.000.0000.000 gold, 10.000 spell resistance. +5.000 health magic and stamina.Anybody have tin foil hats for sale?
I heard they were selling tin foil hats here.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Who looked on how WOW did it very successfully for an decade.
Who said anything about panic? Its basic MMO strategy. This thread is less about warden and more about the big picture if they introduce class change. They said no lottery crates and we have loot crates, they said crafted armor would be Bis and they said subscriber's would have access to all content and now we have expansions "chapters". Money talks and they will bend all previous statements to meet their current agenda.
Short version since I'm on phone:
I think it's wayyyyy too soon to start speculating about this.
ZOS already made it clear that there isn't going to be a class change
You're right though: ZOS did eat their words several times before, and they may do so in this case again.
But that time will be much later, more than likely when they introduce many more classes to the game and know that they're performing well.
A class change has never been tied to buying an additional box yet. This is a decision that may very well end up being made in the executive suites looking at the sale numbers.
Class change let you switch to warden, try it for 2 hours and find that its such because you have not leveled up the skills so you QQ. Or you actually max out the skills and find its mediocre or its very cool and get nerfed.
Instead they nerf the fast grinders and the rest don't notice.
Or class change 30.0000 crowns
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭I don't think it's fair to say that the class is going to be overtuned. I think it's more reasonable to expect that it will be slightly above the other classes in some of the roles. They seem to want to shake up the DK Tank/Templar Healer meta so that we have two good choices for those roles instead of one, while also allowing the class to be competitive (but not exceptional) in the DPS role.
I'd say that would make sense both from a marketing standpoint and from a gameplay standpoint. Adding more class variety for roles is good for the game, and making a new class strong on release is good for the game's income. Not to mention that it aligns itself pretty well with what the devs have actually said about the class.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade0 -
MythicEmperor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Before they decided to change the name of dlc to chapters I would have disagreed, but now anything is possible imo. However if they do it then it wouldn't really matter for most hardcore players since most have 1 of each class.
I don't think that strategy will work in this game since the bulk of the experience is shared across entire account (cp).
Yeah, they won't add 'class changes', but they can definitely add 'profession changes'
With cold regards,
Mythic
Favorite Characters:Kilith Telvayn, Dunmer Telvanni Sorcerer (main)
Kilith, Dunmer Magblade (old main)
Vadusa Venim, Dunmer crafter (older main)
Hir Hlaalu, Dunmer Warden
Søren Icehelm, N'wah Warden
Fargoth of Morrowind, Bosmer commoner1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry I read is as class who is standard, an class change is not.
Who said anything about panic? Its basic MMO strategy. This thread is less about warden and more about the big picture if they introduce class change. They said no lottery crates and we have loot crates, they said crafted armor would be Bis and they said subscriber's would have access to all content and now we have expansions "chapters". Money talks and they will bend all previous statements to meet their current agenda.
Short version since I'm on phone:
I think it's wayyyyy too soon to start speculating about this.
ZOS already made it clear that there isn't going to be a class change
You're right though: ZOS did eat their words several times before, and they may do so in this case again.
But that time will be much later, more than likely when they introduce many more classes to the game and know that they're performing well.
A class change has never been tied to buying an additional box yet. This is a decision that may very well end up being made in the executive suites looking at the sale numbers.
Sorry
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think it is highly likely that the Warden will be either weak or strong and not balanced at launch. Unexpected concerns always pop up. Always, every time. I wouldn't necessarily assume bad intentions.
I likewise think it is likely they might offer class change tokens because people have been demanding that for a while anyways. My feelings are not particularly hurt by this either. This issue is just not that big of a deal. The game's balance has changed a lot of times, and I expect it will continue to do so. Every time they add new sets the game will fundamentally change, and then the baseline rules will change to match the new gear, which will then cause us to have new gear cause the change in baseline rules ad nauseum. I'm personally not a fan of this approach, but its the technique that MMO companies seem to like to use, for good or ill. I personally find it annoying, and I'd love to see a game that quit releasing new sets and fundamentally rules changing. The reality is though I've decided this will be the last MMO that I play. Before this game I had said that another game would have been my last MMO unless either a FALLOUT or TES MMO came out. ESO happened. At this point though I do not think I would play a Fallout MMO even though I love Fallout. My biggest beef with MMO's in general is Events. If I have one beef with MMO's it is Events which inadvertently suck you in to spending more time on a game with activities that are droll and meaningless. I'd rather the game be fun on its own merit, not to have short term activities that force you to waste real life time despite having real life concerns. Valentines day events? Oh don't have a real life with your significant other. Christmas? Oh don't spend time with your family during the holidays. I'm tired of feeling that pull which is perhaps the greatest reason ESO will be my last MMO.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
ZiRM✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a business and businesses need to make money. Do I think they are way overpriced on certain things? Sure...
Want to become Vampire? 5k @ZiRM in game.ESO Server Status. ( ^_^)o自自o(^_^ ) SkåL!!!!!0 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭
Lol. Im not paranoid in the least. Ive just seen this pattern over and over. I just provided some oponions based on my experience. This is good bussiness for them.
I dont plan on buying morrowind until I see how warden performs. Im not much of a PVE player so all I care about is PVP balance. If this class comes out head and shoulders above, people will want class changes. Imagine grinding lore books again especially if you are on console without add ons.
The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS40 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Token speculation aside, you're not really enlightening us with some major revelation. Is this your first MMO? When has there ever been a new class introduced in an mmo that wasn't considered to be overtuned the first month or so of its lifespan?
FFXIV MCH says hi.
I will believe you because I honestly don't know what that is.
Sorry, Machinist (MCH) is currently, and has been since it was released in the Heavensward Expansion for Final Fantasy 14 back in 2014, the outright worst DPS job in that game.
It has Low Damage due particularly to the RNG involved with its combo attack rotation as well as over reliance on its turrent "pet" (a killable stationary target that has a 15 second cooldown between deployments) to help make up for its lack of damage. It's utility skills are weaker copies of other class support abilities (For example, It has a debuff for physical or magic damage that share a cooldown with one another but another class, Archanist, offers both at the same time in a single skill). Then, it's main selling point is its ability to restore Stamina and Magic back to other classes via its turrent (which as I said previously is killable and stationary) but Bards can also restore those resources via ballads and those ballads come from the Bard itself, thus making them mobile resource batteries unlike MCH's Turrents where if it was just deployed and movement was involved to avoid a mechannic or if it was destroyed due to said mechanic, that 15 cooldown was a NIGHTMARE, not to mention Bard was already doing more damage to begin with.
It's an all around awful class.Argonian forever0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The warden will be fine, it's design philosophy is that of a ranger. The dmg skill line is Animal companions which according Zos will have " ranged stamina skills"
But like any class it can be played as a tank and healer as well.
Also They stated that When the Dlc releases They will not have class change.Edited by Anti_Virus on February 24, 2017 1:17AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont plan on buying morrowind until I see how warden performs.
Yeah, holding off purchase of the game as ransom (until you're satisfied with your version of balance) works every time.
I'm sure ZOS will postpone the release of the Morrowind if Wheeler and the PvP group decide it's ready for Live and you don't.
The tinfoil hat is growing larger and more pronounced by the second.0 -
LordGavus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos reaffirmed this week that there will not be class change tokens. Now maybe there will be in a year, who knows. But it won't be close to Morrowind.
As for warden being OP at launch. Well zos have struggled with balance the whole time, so there's a good chance it will be OP. You could be cynical and say its on purpose to increase Morrowind sales. But it won't be to sell class change tokens.
Also, I expect in PvP that wardens will have some abilities/combos that take a few weeks for counters to be created for. Does that make them OP?
And really, for all the people that will be complaining wardens are OP, the same amount will complain they are underpowered.0 -
Hafgar_W✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Speculation ... thanks for that.
Speculation that also contradicts what ZoS has already said...so even worse than just speculation.
Because Zos has never gone against there word before right? Do I need to provide examples?
Heres only one and a big one " crafted gear will always be better than pick up gear?
I only remember them saying that about consumable items, which still holds true. Either way, I'm not sure they have the framework in place for class change tokens. They could add it, but I think XP scrolls would sell for more money overall.0 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »The warden will be fine, it's design philosophy is that of a ranger. The dmg skill line is Animal companions which occurring to Zos will have " ranged stamina skills"
But like any class it can be played as a tank and healer as well.
Also They stated that When the Dlc releases They will not have class change.Taleof2Cities wrote: »I dont plan on buying morrowind until I see how warden performs.
Yeah, holding off purchase of the game as ransom (until you're satisfied with your version of balance) works every time.
I'm sure ZOS will postpone the release of the Morrowind if Wheeler and the PvP group decide it's ready for Live and you don't.
The tinfoil hat is growing larger and more pronounced by the second.
I'm not holding anything for ransom...lol. Some of the responses in this thread floor me. The level of exagerating by the White Knights of this forum never ceases to amaze me.
Zos doesnt care if I buy morrowind because they know, as well as I do, that it's going to be a hot commodity.
As I have stated before, this thread isnt specific to morrowind or warden. I believe in my opinion that no matter what they say we will see class change. Maybe not at Morrowind but after because we will stand on our soap boxes and scream for it. Especially if more classes follow with every "Chapter"
There is no need for insults. I plan on keeping this thread civilized regardless of your intentions to sidetrack it.The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS40 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why the ZOS hate OP?
ZOS is love ZOS is life...
reasons to like ZOS:
They are going to try VERY hard & possibly succeed in fixing PvP this year
They are making Morrowind
They are giving us a new class AND TWO yes 2!!! character slots...
@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0
