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My thoughts on Warden and the direction Zos is headed
The_Duke
✭✭✭✭
I have a sneaky suspicion that Zos is going to overtune the Warden at launch. With this overtune people will cry for a class change token since alot of people aren't interested in chasing skyshards, horse upgrades and leveling up a new character.
They will in turn sell us class change tokens since we already have race change tokens. This will lead to the inevitable cash cow that Zos really wants. They will begin the buff/nerf cycle that every MMO does in order to sell class change tokens. There will be periodic "balancing" which will undertune the Op class only to create another Op class.
Imbalance makes money pure and simple.
They will in turn sell us class change tokens since we already have race change tokens. This will lead to the inevitable cash cow that Zos really wants. They will begin the buff/nerf cycle that every MMO does in order to sell class change tokens. There will be periodic "balancing" which will undertune the Op class only to create another Op class.
Imbalance makes money pure and simple.
The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS4
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS4
6
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cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Speculation ... thanks for that.
Speculation that also contradicts what ZoS has already said...so even worse than just speculation.12 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Speculation ... thanks for that.
Speculation that also contradicts what ZoS has already said...so even worse than just speculation.
Because Zos has never gone against there word before right? Do I need to provide examples?
Heres only one and a big one " crafted gear will always be better than pick up gear?The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS44 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Speculation ... thanks for that.
If you read my title you would know it was purely speculationThe Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS41 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Token speculation aside, you're not really enlightening us with some major revelation. Is this your first MMO? When has there ever been a new class introduced in an mmo that wasn't considered to be overtuned the first month or so of its lifespan?4 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Before they decided to change the name of dlc to chapters I would have disagreed, but now anything is possible imo. However if they do it then it wouldn't really matter for most hardcore players since most have 1 of each class.
I don't think that strategy will work in this game since the bulk of the experience is shared across entire account (cp).0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »Token speculation aside, you're not really enlightening us with some major revelation. Is this your first MMO? When has there ever been a new class introduced in an mmo that wasn't considered to be overtuned the first month or so of its lifespan?
^This.^
And before we get too ahead of ourselves, I encourage you @The_Duke to actively participate in Warden testing when it comes out on PTS.0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anybody have tin foil hats for sale?
I heard they were selling tin foil hats here.Beta tester November 20133 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems this is the most "supportive" (their own words) class they have ever made. It looks pretty strong but I don't think it'll be OP.
Sure these Wardens will kill people easier than usual in PvP for awhile until they assimilate with the other four classes and we figure them out, but in general they'll probably be fine with a few skills that need adjustments.
Also I'm pretty sure they're very much against class change tokens so I doubt we'll see those at all.0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
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"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU5 -
Myyth✭✭✭✭✭The only reason they might overtune the warden is to boost Morrowwind sales.
This is actually a very common popular thing MMO companies do. Make a new class OP so everyone wants it, then, after they make lots of money from expac sales, nerf the class to the ground. Everyone gets angry but thats ok cuz they got your money!Edited by Myyth on February 23, 2017 7:01PM2 -
AnnieBeGood✭✭✭✭I will create a Warden. But in order to learn how it works I am going to have to learn how to play it. Takes around 50 levels ish so..... I would not buy a class change if it was offered. It would be a waste of money really.
I already jump instantly to 160 as it is.... normally with only a few skills unlocked and discovered.Gulrosa V160 Templar -healer and master crafter
Annie Spaceshifter V160 magica NB - just a thieving assassin, now retired
Katerina - 'Daedric Annie' - V160 Stamina DK - now bank alt, wardrobe mistress
Anni Bee - Vet 160Templar - pvp magica templar - Daedric Lord Slayer
Lily Malone - stam sorc - pve goddess
Rey of Jakku Plain - Vet 160 - magica templar dd
Savanna - magica warden, still learning to play
and several babies...... learning to ride
EU server, pc and All for the Pact
Alith, the best guild in the EU0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭New classes are never intentionally overtuned. The reason they always seem better when released is because the devs have had time to learn from their mistakes with all the other classes and can avoid it this time around. New released classes tend to just function better by design.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭
Who said anything about panic? Its basic MMO strategy. This thread is less about warden and more about the big picture if they introduce class change. They said no lottery crates and we have loot crates, they said crafted armor would be Bis and they said subscriber's would have access to all content and now we have expansions "chapters". Money talks and they will bend all previous statements to meet their current agenda.The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS41 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Speculation ... thanks for that.
Actually its more of an assertion... Probably based on experiencing that very thing in many other MMO's.I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4502 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭New classes are never intentionally overtuned. The reason they always seem better when released is because the devs have had time to learn from their mistakes with all the other classes and can avoid it this time around. New released classes tend to just function better by design.
They can also be underperformin. A new class always looks good on paper or durin testing phases, but it's when the playerbase gets access to it that either:
- The class is too strong or players find ways to make it too strong
- The class undrrperforms, and players prefer the true classes instead (DK and Temp in this case)
"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Speculation ... thanks for that.
Speculation that also contradicts what ZoS has already said...so even worse than just speculation.
facepalm. Just like speculations that ZOS canceled 6months subs before going b2p which contradicted what ZOS said. Just like speculations before transferring from ranks to CP that ZOS isn't actually recording XP above vr16, which contradicted to what zos said. I could continue.3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My baseless speculation: It will be overtuned in PvP, but it will be about average in PvE DPS and above average in PvE Tanking and Healing.Edited by timidobserver on February 23, 2017 7:58PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭It seems this is the most "supportive" (their own words) class they have ever made. It looks pretty strong but I don't think it'll be OP.
Sure these Wardens will kill people easier than usual in PvP for awhile until they assimilate with the other four classes and we figure them out, but in general they'll probably be fine with a few skills that need adjustments.
Also I'm pretty sure they're very much against class change tokens so I doubt we'll see those at all.
Did they ever say anything against class change tokens?0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It seems this is the most "supportive" (their own words) class they have ever made. It looks pretty strong but I don't think it'll be OP.
Sure these Wardens will kill people easier than usual in PvP for awhile until they assimilate with the other four classes and we figure them out, but in general they'll probably be fine with a few skills that need adjustments.
Also I'm pretty sure they're very much against class change tokens so I doubt we'll see those at all.
Did they ever say anything against class change tokens?
Yes, I listened to an interview where Rich Lambert (or Matt not sure which) said very clearly that class change will not be possible.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
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Who said anything about panic? Its basic MMO strategy. This thread is less about warden and more about the big picture if they introduce class change. They said no lottery crates and we have loot crates, they said crafted armor would be Bis and they said subscriber's would have access to all content and now we have expansions "chapters". Money talks and they will bend all previous statements to meet their current agenda.
Short version since I'm on phone:
I think it's wayyyyy too soon to start speculating about this.
ZOS already made it clear that there isn't going to be a class change
You're right though: ZOS did eat their words several times before, and they may do so in this case again.
But that time will be much later, more than likely when they introduce many more classes to the game and know that they're performing well."Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU1 -
The_Duke✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »It seems this is the most "supportive" (their own words) class they have ever made. It looks pretty strong but I don't think it'll be OP.
Sure these Wardens will kill people easier than usual in PvP for awhile until they assimilate with the other four classes and we figure them out, but in general they'll probably be fine with a few skills that need adjustments.
Also I'm pretty sure they're very much against class change tokens so I doubt we'll see those at all.
Did they ever say anything against class change tokens?
Yes, I listened to an interview where Rich Lambert (or Matt not sure which) said very clearly that class change will not be possible.
Because they are both very honest and reliable sources right?The Duke
Stamplar
Guild leader of The Dukes. PS40 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »Token speculation aside, you're not really enlightening us with some major revelation. Is this your first MMO? When has there ever been a new class introduced in an mmo that wasn't considered to be overtuned the first month or so of its lifespan?
FFXIV MCH says hi.Argonian forever1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@The_Duke
The fallacy of your argument is that Zos has said as recent as this week there will be no class change tokens.
The other weakness of your argument is the clear 50%-50% chances that the warden could underperform just as it could over perform since Zos has not been great at balance.
Most important is it's just bad business.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »It seems this is the most "supportive" (their own words) class they have ever made. It looks pretty strong but I don't think it'll be OP.
Sure these Wardens will kill people easier than usual in PvP for awhile until they assimilate with the other four classes and we figure them out, but in general they'll probably be fine with a few skills that need adjustments.
Also I'm pretty sure they're very much against class change tokens so I doubt we'll see those at all.
Did they ever say anything against class change tokens?
Yes, I listened to an interview where Rich Lambert (or Matt not sure which) said very clearly that class change will not be possible.
Because they are both very honest and reliable sources right?
Yup. At least I have never felt intentionally misled by Rich or Matt.Edited by timidobserver on February 23, 2017 8:18PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0
