Got to love how people seem to know better then zos on how to make money. All I have to say to those is, why not make your own MMO you obviously have the knowledge.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Obviously you never played WOW Jake where every single expansion to the game costed $40. There was I believe at least 6 of them. Plus a monthly sub. If you don't want Morrowind don't get it. If you don't think the sub is worth it don't sub.

WoW isn't a comparable game or payment concept. That game currently and always has required a subscription to access the game.

The expansions however are and remain optional just as Morrowind. The major difference is that Blizzard hasn't changed what they've told their customers, their cost and pricing plan would be since launch. That's been over 10 years.

This game had a required subscription when it launched which I was playing under and didn't have any issues with that model however, that model didn't release not one expansion or dlc. They were charging for access and labeled updates as dlc which were suppose to be in the base game.

This company hasn't stuck to one name or payment type for consecutive 12 months
And now ppl are trying to make arguments that their preferred method to pay to play (FYI which isn't required) should be everyone else because those who purchased the game who were back then and even today, told that a subscription wouldn't be required so they could opt to pay for content.....that's no longer the option

There are games to compare but let's be transparent.....all of those games went buy or sub to F2P and are highly monetized but less monetized than this game in only 2 years

Things change . You where never told you would get Morrowind for free. These things are not cheap to make. Requiring a purchase is not unfair.

Oh and why don't you list all the MMOS that are giving out free expansions while your at it. GW2 just released a $60 expansion. WOW just released a $40 one. Secret World has released several paid additions. Rift just released a paid expansion. . Can't think of anyone who is giving out free expansions. My point is this is how its done. They are just doing what any company does and that is making money. That is why they exist. There has to be a profit on the investment they made to make the expansion or there is no reason to make it in the first place.

dbgager wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Obviously you never played WOW Jake where every single expansion to the game costed $40. There was I believe at least 6 of them. Plus a monthly sub. If you don't want Morrowind don't get it. If you don't think the sub is worth it don't sub.

WoW isn't a comparable game or payment concept. That game currently and always has required a subscription to access the game.

The expansions however are and remain optional just as Morrowind. The major difference is that Blizzard hasn't changed what they've told their customers, their cost and pricing plan would be since launch. That's been over 10 years.

This game had a required subscription when it launched which I was playing under and didn't have any issues with that model however, that model didn't release not one expansion or dlc. They were charging for access and labeled updates as dlc which were suppose to be in the base game.

This company hasn't stuck to one name or payment type for consecutive 12 months
And now ppl are trying to make arguments that their preferred method to pay to play (FYI which isn't required) should be everyone else because those who purchased the game who were back then and even today, told that a subscription wouldn't be required so they could opt to pay for content.....that's no longer the option

There are games to compare but let's be transparent.....all of those games went buy or sub to F2P and are highly monetized but less monetized than this game in only 2 years

Things change . You where never told you would get Morrowind for free. These things are not cheap to make. Requiring a purchase is not unfair.

@dbgager

Your comments don't tend to respond or make sense to what I've wrote

My comment to you is based off your suggestion that someone must have not played WoW based on how that games model works with subscriptions and expansions. You then use that in comparison to suggest that an ESO customer could choose not to purchase Morrowind and/or choose not to subscribe.

Because that reference to WoW is largely not similar, your recent comment makes no sense.

WoW has only 6 total expansions but it's been out for 17 years.
It's model has never changed but your comment says....well things change.

No, they don't in your example so that creates an irrational comparison

ESO has charged for multiple dlcs, and soon to have its first chapter and now 3 model changes since release.

This makes the argument that what's they're doing is unusual or outside of reasonable for any typical customer for MMO server games on any platform

dbgager wrote: »

Obviously you never played WOW Jake where every single expansion to the game costed $40. There was I believe at least 6 of them. Plus a monthly sub. If you don't want Morrowind don't get it. If you don't think the sub is worth it don't sub. You have that option.

That has nothing to do with ESO... btw, i did play wow... and coh.

but you're right... we weren't told we would get morrowind for free.. we were told we would get it by being eso+ members.
This craft bag complaint was a small issue before the morrowind announcement... but its larger now since the business plan changed... again.

and yes i did drop my subscription already... and am actively looking for a different game.

#threadderailed

As far as the crafting bag..that is essentially ESO+. I don't think you will ever see that in the crown store.

dbgager wrote: »

It is completelly similar. ESO is an online MMO just like all the games that I mentioned. There is absolutely no difference. The ways to make money and be successful in that business are well established. Especially by Blizzard. They don't do it for you. They do it to have a place to live and to feed there children. Its a business. You don't get a product for free. That is not how it works....Sorry. And yes business models change. Many MMOS have changed from sub to the same model ESO now has . Its not a rare thing. Things don't stay the same. If you don't like the changes then don't buy the product. I have no issues with it. I plan on buying Morrowind when its released. If you don't think its worth the price. Don't buy it. And sorry but WOW has been out since late 2004 12 1/2 years.A new expansion appr. every 2 years.

@dbgager

When did you start playing WoW....for how long and when did you quit?

When did you begin playing ESO?

They are literally not alike even the MMo server setup isn't alike. The only resemblance is that both are multiplayer, role playing games online.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

It is completelly similar. ESO is an online MMO just like all the games that I mentioned. There is absolutely no difference. The ways to make money and be successful in that business are well established. Especially by Blizzard. They don't do it for you. They do it to have a place to live and to feed there children. Its a business. You don't get a product for free. That is not how it works....Sorry. And yes business models change. Many MMOS have changed from sub to the same model ESO now has . Its not a rare thing. Things don't stay the same. If you don't like the changes then don't buy the product. I have no issues with it. I plan on buying Morrowind when its released. If you don't think its worth the price. Don't buy it. And sorry but WOW has been out since late 2004 12 1/2 years.A new expansion appr. every 2 years.

@dbgager

When did you start playing WoW....for how long and when did you quit?

When did you begin playing ESO?

They are literally not alike even the MMo server setup isn't alike. The only resemblance it's that both are multiplayer, role playing games online.

I don't understand why you think they are not alike. You do realize that these games are all MMOs don't you. Where not talking about gameplay here.

A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is an online game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, simultaneously in the same instance (or world). MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world. This is where they are the same.

ESO, WOW, Rift, FF 14, Secret World, Star Wars, GW 2, Neverwinter, Tera, etc. There all basically alike. They all make money through the same business models. Be it sub, purchase, pay store, paid expansions, or combination of any of those.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

As far as the crafting bag..that is essentially ESO+. I don't think you will ever see that in the crown store.

cpuScientist wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Listen with the subs you get all dlc free. Well except for the next big one. Which is huh. Well we will get all those after that. Well except for some that while being dlc are now called chapters.

Screw it just sell the craft bags.

If the only reason people sub is because of that bag, then ZOS is not providing incentives to be a sub. And the only reason many sub is for the bags. That's bad on ZOS IMO...

The craft bag is the incentive. So what do you mean there not providing incentives. The dumb thing to do from a marketing standpoint is to remove the incentive.

Yes and my point is. That's the only real incentive. If they took that out alot would unsubscribe. That's sad. That it's 1 feature that towers over all others.

Failure in that they offer such little bonuses to being a sub...

If the only reason you're subbing is for the crafting bag.
And let's be 100% sincere

If that's it




Why are you arguing against people who are discussing other options for it to be purchased otherwise. You're already willing to pay $15/month so it's just another option for you to choose from

I can be for it or against it. It doesn't matter. Its not going to happen. I can see the overwhelming advantage to keeping it just exactly as it is. The present system is making Zenimax a lot of money. Changing it would mean losing that steady flow of money. I can see that whether I agree with it or not.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

It is completelly similar. ESO is an online MMO just like all the games that I mentioned. There is absolutely no difference. The ways to make money and be successful in that business are well established. Especially by Blizzard. They don't do it for you. They do it to have a place to live and to feed there children. Its a business. You don't get a product for free. That is not how it works....Sorry. And yes business models change. Many MMOS have changed from sub to the same model ESO now has . Its not a rare thing. Things don't stay the same. If you don't like the changes then don't buy the product. I have no issues with it. I plan on buying Morrowind when its released. If you don't think its worth the price. Don't buy it. And sorry but WOW has been out since late 2004 12 1/2 years.A new expansion appr. every 2 years.

@dbgager

When did you start playing WoW....for how long and when did you quit?

When did you begin playing ESO?

They are literally not alike even the MMo server setup isn't alike. The only resemblance it's that both are multiplayer, role playing games online.

I don't understand why you think they are not alike. You do realize that these games are all MMOs don't you. Where not talking about gameplay here.

A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is an online game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, simultaneously in the same instance (or world). MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world. This is where they are the same.

ESO, WOW, Rift, FF 14, Secret World, Star Wars, GW 2, Neverwinter, Tera, etc. There all basically alike. They all make money through the same business models. Be it sub, purchase, pay store, paid expansions, or combination of any of those.

@dbgager

It's not about what I think.
It's how the developers describe it pre launch and how they continue to talk about their game today.

Even in their talk on chapters in the article they refer to "other MMOs" and are quick to say our game isn't like other MMOs

It's they who've determined it's not like WoW not me

All of those games above are similar to each other but all are very different from ESO.

-server
-combat
-platform
-content access/updates
-dlc
-chapters
-expansions
-F2P
-B2P
-sub partial, full, none at all


They differ a lot, so much that they aren't alike. They only are in the same genre because it's labeled as a MMO which is just the server....and that's isn't even the same as this game has mega servers and PvE is shared across alliances on one server.

It's very different, more different than alike

You haven't played many online games have you. All online games have most or all of those things. Besides the fact that nothing there has anything to do with there business model and how they choose to make money. Anyway this is going around in circles. Its not going to happen. I tried to explain why but you don't seem to see it. I don't have anything else to say about it.

disintegr8 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

Going back a few comments, it is not correct to say that the craft bag costs subscribers nothing based on the assumption that we are buying 1500 crowns and get the craft bag, and presumably all other DLC's, as a 'bonus'.

I had only been playing for 6 months when the craft bag came out and admit I only started subbing when it came out. I do not buy shiny things in the crown store and apart from purchasing additional character slots, have no use for the crowns they give me.

Lets cross off the remaining ESO+ perks:
1. Increased gold looted - this does not really assist an established player and with 8mil in gold, I do not need it.
2. Access to DLC - I had purchased IC and Orsinium before subbing and have not done much with the TG or DB DLC's other than try them out as I dislike them.
3. Reduced research times - my crafting research was 2/3 complete when I subscribed and was finished months ago,
4. Increased rate of XP - I was at CP cap wen vet levels were removed and at 700+, I have no use for more XP.

So as far as I am concerned, I pay $15 a month for the craft bag plus the feeling that I am hopefully contributing to the ongoing development of the game.

@disintegr8

It's very accurate to say the crafting bag has no monetary value and that's not an assumption or any opinion.

What's happening with people, is they are trying to justify value for themselves, therefore in their minds, they have concluded that the cost of ESO Plus for them is the value of X or Y.

I'm not arguing against what each person may consider as value.
I'm pointing out that what any person may decide is their value for subscribing, the specific benefit feature (crafting bag) in context to this discussion has no monetary value established.

The established monetary value which this game is based upon to date is only crowns.

In June it becomes crowns and real money purchased chapter Morrowind.

ZOS has not established any monetary values, and so when people discuss "what they are paying for" it's important that everyone understand what you're paying for.

Per ZOS' article, we are paying for crowns by means of a subscription sku, and as result of the subscription sku, we are given additional benefits which include features such as the crafting bag

If the crafting bag were available via crowns or real money, then a portion of the subscription could then be given a monetary value. You can give dlc or exp scrolls a value...make sense?