Hypothetical vMA question

NinthPrince64 · January 2017

Sorry, I am reposting this from yesterday because I realize I had it in the wrong forum.

This is purely intellectual curiosity on my part.

Suppose that each time you entered vMSA you were given a choice. You can either play for a random outcome using the RNG probabilities as they exist today, OR you can play for a token. Assume collecting a certain number of tokens would allow you to pick the exact weapon of your choice.

Clearly, if that required number of tokens is small, everyone would pick the token option. Alternatively, if the number is extremely large, everyone (broadly speaking) would chose to play under the current RNG.

My question is, what would the number of required tokens be that would make you indifferent between the two choices? (Please, if we can avoid going off on a tangent of whether the current system is "good" or "bad", that would be great. Thx.)

Bandit1215 · January 2017

Lets say completing vMA in a single run gave you one token. If it costs more than like 150 coins to pick ANY weapon in ANY trait, i would start to be a bit indifferent.

Yoltab1379 · January 2017

Personally I am satisfied with nearly every maelstrom weapon I have. Most aren't perfect but they're near perfect. The only thing I need is an inferno staff sharpened. I go into every maelstrom run expecting nothing at the end and low and behold that's exactly what I get.

If you were to tell me I could do 40 runs starting right now and by the end I could get the weapon I've so desperately been farming for, then yes I would farm 10 times a day for the next 4 days to get it. Right now with my negative mindset I'm not encouraged to run through maelstrom as it's way more likely I get trash than the only weapon I want thus I do less runs than I would under the condition I'm promised a weapon after a specific number of runs

Only time I'd consider it crazy would be 100+ runs to get it. Even with a number like 80 tokens per weapon I would still gladly take it over the current RNG trash.

Nidro · February 2017

IF im guaranteed a sharp Inferno for 150 runs... I'd definately go for it LOL.

I got one already after about 300 runs, but i Need 2-3 more for my other mag classes

BNOC · February 2017

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

That would make 100 runs 66 hours of play time to get your BiS weapon of choice.

For most people that's what, a week/ two weeks worth of playtime? So even with staggered runs they'd have their BiS weapons within a month.

I actually don't think that's long enough given that you spend months farming on other games for gear, especially games where there's lockouts.

150 tokens would be fair to me.

jakeedmundson · February 2017

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

That would make 100 runs 66 hours of play time to get your BiS weapon of choice.

For most people that's what, a week/ two weeks worth of playtime? So even with staggered runs they'd have their BiS weapons within a month.

I actually don't think that's long enough given that you spend months farming on other games for gear, especially games where there's lockouts.

150 tokens would be fair to me.

I usually beat it in 50-60 minutes... I've still done all the vet trials (except vmol) and even the hard modes of those trials.

and what?? 66 hours in a week or two?? wtf? shut the tv off and go outside.

btw, I think you're confusing stam sorcs with every other class. The average completion time of people i know that do the arena is still over an hour. (unless they use a stam sorc) Ability to beat this arena really doesn't have anything to do with playing other trials.

And to clear things up... i HAVE spent months playing vma and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for..i'm talking OVER your 66 hours mark. And I don't mean the correct trait hasn't dropped, i mean the item TYPE has never dropped yet. That is insane. A motivation killer.

Jonno · February 2017

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

I have to disagree with this statement it takes me 50ish mins to complete yet i have completed every Vet trial HM including vMoL HM

on another note i would have to say 300 tokens is reasonable as most people you ask it took them 300+ runs to get their desired weapon myself included

Xerton · February 2017

50 minutes @Jonno ?
I'm sorry but i think i will have to tell blue

Oh and i disagree on 300 tokens. That's a bit over the top.
Make it 100 and everyone involved is happy.
Just because we, that have most of our weapons, suffered, does not mean others should suffer as well

Jonno · February 2017

to be fair i take smoke breaks cause the place bores the life out of me

dont think ive ever done a complete full run

Lukums1 · February 2017

Another token thread, it's all well and good but this won't ever happen there has never been talks or ever hinted at a possible token system.

To be fair, I wouldn't think it would be long off Morrowind we will get more (BiS) weapons.

The time to get maelstrom weapons was like 8+ Months ago, I wouldn't be pulling out your hair now.

You can be like me and run vMA over 1500 times for x3 of each weapon Sharpen, but not everyone is as silly as I am.

Understandable.

Masel · February 2017

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

That would make 100 runs 66 hours of play time to get your BiS weapon of choice.

For most people that's what, a week/ two weeks worth of playtime? So even with staggered runs they'd have their BiS weapons within a month.

I actually don't think that's long enough given that you spend months farming on other games for gear, especially games where there's lockouts.

150 tokens would be fair to me.

40 minutes per run is an average score of 570k or so in no death. Not forgetting that the arena has a reset cooldown of 5 minutes. If that is the border to endgame content I guess we all can sell our endgame gear and get back to clearing delves naked with a single one-handed weapon...

Seriously, this is just untrue. My best score is 550k (on a mag dk) and I would consider myself as an endgame player. Not everyone is that bored and runs vma all day...

NinthPrince64 · February 2017

Lukums1 wrote: »

Another token thread, it's all well and good but this won't ever happen there has never been talks or ever hinted at a possible token system.

To be fair, I wouldn't think it would be long off Morrowind we will get more (BiS) weapons.

The time to get maelstrom weapons was like 8+ Months ago, I wouldn't be pulling out your hair now.

You can be like me and run vMA over 1500 times for x3 of each weapon Sharpen, but not everyone is as silly as I am.

Understandable.

It's not really a token thread, it's a risk aversion thread.

Lukums1 · February 2017

Also note the timer isn't 15minutes it's 5minutes.

It is much of the muchness he mentions tokens (hence) token thread.

But in any case, you could raid in WoW for months and never get your gear I fail to see the difference.
At least in vMA you can run whenever YOU want without relying on people to be there on time... to help... to waste time.
vMA is all about you and don't get me wrong yes, you could spend weeks/months in there to get your weapons.
Is what it is.

montiferus · February 2017

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

Lol

I take it you don't play on Xbox. I get at least 3 lag related deaths and 1 disconnect per run. Literally impossible to do 40 for me. I'm at 52 and quite capable of doing end game content.

montiferus · February 2017

And for the record I would prefer they just rebalance the traits so everything other than sharpened isnt useless anymore. That would be more interesting to me than a token system.

I finally got my sharpened inferno last week and it was such a freakin relief.

BNOC · February 2017

montiferus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

Lol

I take it you don't play on Xbox. I get at least 3 lag related deaths and 1 disconnect per run. Literally impossible to do 40 for me. I'm at 52 and quite capable of doing end game content.

I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem.

To everyone else and you included:

I said "If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo."

Roughly 40 minutes, I'm not saying bash out 560-570k scores although I see no reason pre-patch why anyone couldn't do that, people were pushing 600k in sub 30 minute runs - 10-15 minutes extra is a long time.

Instead of should, I probably should have went with could - At the end of the day, nothing is stopping a terrible 200cp coming in and doing HM trials with a good group, they'd probably die to any mechanics but that doesn't necessarily stop them getting through. All I was saying was, if you're not getting through it in roughly 40 minutes and or are still dying to red then you're not as good as you could be and when you're put into a group situation you're going to be effectively gimping them - If I had a 570k and a 530k in front of me for the last spot I know who I'd take.

I also followed it all up with IMO because that's just my opinion.
I was basing that on pre-Homestead scores as well because we've still not got it.

Either way, I stand at 100 runs (however long it takes you)

GrigorijMalahevich · February 2017

15 runs, 300 cp 485000 points. Your biased comments make you look "not very wise".

There is no difference between 420k points and 580k, just better build and better mechanics understandig due to just loads of experience in doing vma. For that comment to make sense you should compare points to runs ratio. You do understand that even a monkey can learn vma mechanica in 500 runs and do 580k points, just get real kid.

50 runs and 100 is a big difference and your vma experience has zero proffit in group trials in that perspectice.

Lukums1 · February 2017

BNOC wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

Lol

I take it you don't play on Xbox. I get at least 3 lag related deaths and 1 disconnect per run. Literally impossible to do 40 for me. I'm at 52 and quite capable of doing end game content.

I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem.

To everyone else and you included:

I said "If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo."

Roughly 40 minutes, I'm not saying bash out 560-570k scores although I see no reason pre-patch why anyone couldn't do that, people were pushing 600k in sub 30 minute runs - 10-15 minutes extra is a long time.

Instead of should, I probably should have went with could - At the end of the day, nothing is stopping a terrible 200cp coming in and doing HM trials with a good group, they'd probably die to any mechanics but that doesn't necessarily stop them getting through. All I was saying was, if you're not getting through it in roughly 40 minutes and or are still dying to red then you're not as good as you could be and when you're put into a group situation you're going to be effectively gimping them - If I had a 570k and a 530k in front of me for the last spot I know who I'd take.

I also followed it all up with IMO because that's just my opinion.
I was basing that on pre-Homestead scores as well because we've still not got it.

Either way, I stand at 100 runs (however long it takes you)

Normally I don't address stupidity but I'm going to here.

First, the gentleman above mentioned he did get lag and he has issues with this currently, just because you don't get lag on (XBOX) doesn't mean he doesn't. So the, "I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem" is a really *** thing to say considering I'm sure the gentleman has tried to fix these issues.

You are the reason why we have %&tards in the game, just because someone completes/doesn't complete vMA doesn't make them any less "gud" then the person standing next to them. I guess everyone should apologise to elitist like yourself that can't run sub 40 minutes and the real possibility that you won't pick us for your trials. (sarcasm)

IMO - since you love using that word, you should keep non-constructive rubbish off the forums as you'd be surprised how negative things effect certain people trying to push out content especially like vMA.

I know you said it's all in your own opinion, but your opinion is so far from the truth I can't even begin to understand your reasoning, if someone get's lag and is simply unable to react quick enough in vMA (which you know of environmental issues surrounding the arena) they aren't going to achieve sub 40 minute or so scores it's just not achievable which is exactly what he was saying.

Now I'll apologies to the OP because I did go on a tangent but that needed to be addressed. #stupidity.

Luke

Masel · February 2017

Lukums1 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

Lol

I take it you don't play on Xbox. I get at least 3 lag related deaths and 1 disconnect per run. Literally impossible to do 40 for me. I'm at 52 and quite capable of doing end game content.

I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem.

To everyone else and you included:

I said "If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo."

Roughly 40 minutes, I'm not saying bash out 560-570k scores although I see no reason pre-patch why anyone couldn't do that, people were pushing 600k in sub 30 minute runs - 10-15 minutes extra is a long time.

Instead of should, I probably should have went with could - At the end of the day, nothing is stopping a terrible 200cp coming in and doing HM trials with a good group, they'd probably die to any mechanics but that doesn't necessarily stop them getting through. All I was saying was, if you're not getting through it in roughly 40 minutes and or are still dying to red then you're not as good as you could be and when you're put into a group situation you're going to be effectively gimping them - If I had a 570k and a 530k in front of me for the last spot I know who I'd take.

I also followed it all up with IMO because that's just my opinion.
I was basing that on pre-Homestead scores as well because we've still not got it.

Either way, I stand at 100 runs (however long it takes you)

Normally I don't address stupidity but I'm going to here.

First, the gentleman above mentioned he did get lag and he has issues with this currently, just because you don't get lag on (XBOX) doesn't mean he doesn't. So the, "I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem" is a really *** thing to say considering I'm sure the gentleman has tried to fix these issues.

You are the reason why we have %&tards in the game, just because someone completes/doesn't complete vMA doesn't make them any less "gud" then the person standing next to them. I guess everyone should apologise to elitist like yourself that can't run sub 40 minutes and the real possibility that you won't pick us for your trials. (sarcasm)

IMO - since you love using that word, you should keep non-constructive rubbish off the forums as you'd be surprised how negative things effect certain people trying to push out content especially like vMA.

I know you said it's all in your own opinion, but your opinion is so far from the truth I can't even begin to understand your reasoning, if someone get's lag and is simply unable to react quick enough in vMA (which you know of environmental issues surrounding the arena) they aren't going to achieve sub 40 minute or so scores it's just not achievable which is exactly what he was saying.

Now I'll apologies to the OP because I did go on a tangent but that needed to be addressed. #stupidity.

Luke

^ that.

montiferus · February 2017

BNOC wrote: »

I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem.

Congrats you are literally the ONLY person I know who doesn't get lag on Xbox. Restarting and Reloading UI does nothing for me. Lag is lag.

Yes that is your opinion. My opinion is that I don't agree with you at all. I think you are like a lot of people who think because you have accomplished something you think everyone else needs to do the same to be "good enough". In my "opinion" that is a ridiculous statement. In fact I have run a lot of vet trials with flawless conquerors who died more than anyone. I've also seen a lot of high scoring VMA guys put in inferior BSTs to me.

montiferus · February 2017

Lukums1 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Let's assume it takes 40 minutes a complete
Side note - If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo.

Lol

I take it you don't play on Xbox. I get at least 3 lag related deaths and 1 disconnect per run. Literally impossible to do 40 for me. I'm at 52 and quite capable of doing end game content.

I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem.

To everyone else and you included:

I said "If you're not completing it in roughly 40 minutes then you should still be in there because your DPS and or awareness aren't as good as they should be for endgame content, imo."

Roughly 40 minutes, I'm not saying bash out 560-570k scores although I see no reason pre-patch why anyone couldn't do that, people were pushing 600k in sub 30 minute runs - 10-15 minutes extra is a long time.

Instead of should, I probably should have went with could - At the end of the day, nothing is stopping a terrible 200cp coming in and doing HM trials with a good group, they'd probably die to any mechanics but that doesn't necessarily stop them getting through. All I was saying was, if you're not getting through it in roughly 40 minutes and or are still dying to red then you're not as good as you could be and when you're put into a group situation you're going to be effectively gimping them - If I had a 570k and a 530k in front of me for the last spot I know who I'd take.

I also followed it all up with IMO because that's just my opinion.
I was basing that on pre-Homestead scores as well because we've still not got it.

Either way, I stand at 100 runs (however long it takes you)

Normally I don't address stupidity but I'm going to here.

First, the gentleman above mentioned he did get lag and he has issues with this currently, just because you don't get lag on (XBOX) doesn't mean he doesn't. So the, "I am actually on Xbox, I get 0 lag related deaths and the disconnect on round 6 can be avoided every time by restarting your Xbox when you're in the lobby of MSA - No problem" is a really *** thing to say considering I'm sure the gentleman has tried to fix these issues.

You are the reason why we have %&tards in the game, just because someone completes/doesn't complete vMA doesn't make them any less "gud" then the person standing next to them. I guess everyone should apologise to elitist like yourself that can't run sub 40 minutes and the real possibility that you won't pick us for your trials. (sarcasm)

IMO - since you love using that word, you should keep non-constructive rubbish off the forums as you'd be surprised how negative things effect certain people trying to push out content especially like vMA.

I know you said it's all in your own opinion, but your opinion is so far from the truth I can't even begin to understand your reasoning, if someone get's lag and is simply unable to react quick enough in vMA (which you know of environmental issues surrounding the arena) they aren't going to achieve sub 40 minute or so scores it's just not achievable which is exactly what he was saying.

Now I'll apologies to the OP because I did go on a tangent but that needed to be addressed. #stupidity.

Luke

Well said.