Permanent purchasing of crafting bag in Crown Store.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

theslynx wrote: »

I tend to think of things like this in terms of marginal sales and markets.

There are some people, myself included, who are never going to sub, for whatever reason, but who would still like to cut down on the inventory management. You have to worry, at least a bit, that some minority of those people will eventually leave over the tiresome inventory, in which case you lose out on potential Crown sales. That's probably a small but measurable loss.

There are some people who are simply going to unsubscribe if they can simply buy a full crafting bag. If you sell the bag, you lose their monthly revenue stream, and probably don't make it up via Crown purchases. That's probably a more noticeable loss. So you don't sell full crafting bags.

Ideally, you try to cut the difference. For instance, sell small crafting bags - say, a 20-slot Provisioning crafting bag for 3 000 Crowns that can only carry single stacks of items. You can't fully replace the crafting bag, or even come particularly close, so ESO still has measurable value, but you also capture some portion of that market you're otherwise missing.

Your comment is logical and of sound mind.

They sale everything else but have decided not to align this.....silly

Elsonso · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

It's hilarious to me that the people defending the "eso + only" option think paying $15/month is worth it for a CRAFTING bag.

10% extra xp, research times, and gold? not even close to being worth the money. Maybe it would be for a new player but that benefit loses value quickly.
The crowns? nope, nothing in the store is interesting anymore. Pets are lame, and after you have a few mounts it doesn't matter anyway.
the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.
DLC content like homestead is free to everyone so eso + does nothing there
dark brotherhood and thieves guild dlcs were TERRIBLE. Repeat the same garbage quests 100 times until you get the skill line leveled to finish the story? wtf?? The last good DLC was wrothgar... almost a year and a half ago.

This is entirely your opinion, of course. Clearly, a lot of people disagree with the assessment.

I disagree on a couple points. First, ESO Plus is not about any one benefit, but the combination of benefits. For me, the benefits are the DLC, XP boost, Gold boost, Crafting Bag, and Costume Dyes.

But, as I have said, it is harder to justify ESO Plus these days. Not because of Morrowind, but more because Homestead and One Tamriel have not really added to the value. Too much base game stuff has been rolled out that does not need it.

jakeedmundson · February 2017

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

Runschei · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

Keep it ESO+

Khaos_Bane · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

They do need more storage though, it's a shame that ZoS simply refuses to increase storage and make you play an inventory mini game like no other vid game I have ever seen.

ZoS talks about quality of life changes but they absolutely refuse this one.

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

@dbgager

let me answer that for you so you understand.
Ppl paying for eso plus are doing this:

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

even if you're reason to sub is limited to the crafting bag only, you are not paying for it unless you're giving ZOS your crowns back OR if you're like me and those on Xbox one who aren't getting their crowns when we sub.

This is the problem with any argument that suggest that selling a crafting bag would devalue a subscription. TechnicLly speaking your subscription has no monetary value

Paying customer

-is paying for crowns

The only difference is they aren't setting up a sub
They can purchase everything you purchase
They cannot access the crafting bag but are spending the same amount as the subscriber

$180/year is nothing
I only subbed for 4 months but spent over $220 in 2016 just on Xbox one for this game so telling paying customers that they don't deserve access, it comes off in a very unintelligent way when you understand the bigger picture.

BIG picture:

The game advertises, a sub isn't required (not to be confused with a requirement to pay for content and features) but outside of a subscription, this feature is outside of advertising and disagrees with the suggested option to pay to play or sub depending on your comfort and desires.

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

@dbgager

let me answer that for you so you understand.
Ppl paying for eso plus are doing this:

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

even if you're reason to sub is limited to the crafting bag only, you are not paying for it unless you're giving ZOS your crowns back OR if you're like me and those on Xbox one who aren't getting their crowns when we sub.

This is the problem with any argument that suggest that selling a crafting bag would devalue a subscription. TechnicLly speaking your subscription has no monetary value
Paying customer

-is paying for crowns

The only difference is they aren't setting up a sub
They can purchase everything you purchase
They cannot access the crafting bag but are spending the same amount as the subscriber

$180/year is nothing
I only subbed for 4 months but spent over $220 in 2016 just on Xbox one for this game so telling paying customers that they don't deserve access, it comes off in a very unintelligent way when you understand the bigger picture.

BIG picture:

The game advertises, a sub isn't required (not to be confused with a requirement to pay for content and features) but outside of a subscription, this feature is outside of advertising and disagrees with the suggested option to pay to play or sub depending on your comfort and desires.

Free crafting bag would infact devalue a sub. As without it I would not be subbing . Thats a fact. As well as a lot of other people who would not sub anymore. Zenimax is a business. They know what their doing with the crafting bag. They are making a lot of money because of it. Its a giant motivation to sub.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

@dbgager

let me answer that for you so you understand.
Ppl paying for eso plus are doing this:

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

even if you're reason to sub is limited to the crafting bag only, you are not paying for it unless you're giving ZOS your crowns back OR if you're like me and those on Xbox one who aren't getting their crowns when we sub.

This is the problem with any argument that suggest that selling a crafting bag would devalue a subscription. TechnicLly speaking your subscription has no monetary value
Paying customer

-is paying for crowns

The only difference is they aren't setting up a sub
They can purchase everything you purchase
They cannot access the crafting bag but are spending the same amount as the subscriber

$180/year is nothing
I only subbed for 4 months but spent over $220 in 2016 just on Xbox one for this game so telling paying customers that they don't deserve access, it comes off in a very unintelligent way when you understand the bigger picture.

BIG picture:

The game advertises, a sub isn't required (not to be confused with a requirement to pay for content and features) but outside of a subscription, this feature is outside of advertising and disagrees with the suggested option to pay to play or sub depending on your comfort and desires.

Free crafting bag would infact devalue a sub. As without it I would not be subbing . Thats a fact. As well as a lot of other people who would not sub anymore. Zenimax is a business. They know what their doing with the crafting bag. They are making a lot of money because of it.

@dbgager

Are you even reading my comment?

We are suggesting that there is an ample market opportunity to not only give access to an unlimited crafting bag via the subscription but to offer outside of eso plus but via crowns a limited crafting bag with options to pay crowns to upgrade it.

Crown cost aside....that's the context

I'm also arguing that other comments suggesting the crown cost should be high, are wrong because it shouldn't not be as high as some have suggested because their understanding of the actual cost is inaccurate.

Edits:

ZOS devalued the sub on their own with Morrowind. Crafting bags isn't the reason I subbed it was something nice in addition to crowns that I saved for dlc and crown cosmetic stuff

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

@dbgager

let me answer that for you so you understand.
Ppl paying for eso plus are doing this:

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

even if you're reason to sub is limited to the crafting bag only, you are not paying for it unless you're giving ZOS your crowns back OR if you're like me and those on Xbox one who aren't getting their crowns when we sub.

This is the problem with any argument that suggest that selling a crafting bag would devalue a subscription. TechnicLly speaking your subscription has no monetary value
Paying customer

-is paying for crowns

The only difference is they aren't setting up a sub
They can purchase everything you purchase
They cannot access the crafting bag but are spending the same amount as the subscriber

$180/year is nothing
I only subbed for 4 months but spent over $220 in 2016 just on Xbox one for this game so telling paying customers that they don't deserve access, it comes off in a very unintelligent way when you understand the bigger picture.

BIG picture:

The game advertises, a sub isn't required (not to be confused with a requirement to pay for content and features) but outside of a subscription, this feature is outside of advertising and disagrees with the suggested option to pay to play or sub depending on your comfort and desires.

Free crafting bag would infact devalue a sub. As without it I would not be subbing . Thats a fact. As well as a lot of other people who would not sub anymore. Zenimax is a business. They know what their doing with the crafting bag. They are making a lot of money because of it.

@dbgager

Are you even reading my comment?

We are suggesting that there is an ample market opportunity to not only give access to an unlimited crafting bag via the subscription but to offer outside of eso plus but via crowns a limited crafting bag with options to pay crowns to upgrade it.

Crown cost aside....that's the context

I'm arguing that other comments suggesting the crown cost is wrong because it shouldn't not be as high as some have suggested because their understanding of the actual cost is inaccurate.

Not going to happen. They are making max profit off it now via subs. Thats a losing proposition on their part.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

@dbgager

let me answer that for you so you understand.
Ppl paying for eso plus are doing this:

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

even if you're reason to sub is limited to the crafting bag only, you are not paying for it unless you're giving ZOS your crowns back OR if you're like me and those on Xbox one who aren't getting their crowns when we sub.

This is the problem with any argument that suggest that selling a crafting bag would devalue a subscription. TechnicLly speaking your subscription has no monetary value
Paying customer

-is paying for crowns

The only difference is they aren't setting up a sub
They can purchase everything you purchase
They cannot access the crafting bag but are spending the same amount as the subscriber

$180/year is nothing
I only subbed for 4 months but spent over $220 in 2016 just on Xbox one for this game so telling paying customers that they don't deserve access, it comes off in a very unintelligent way when you understand the bigger picture.

BIG picture:

The game advertises, a sub isn't required (not to be confused with a requirement to pay for content and features) but outside of a subscription, this feature is outside of advertising and disagrees with the suggested option to pay to play or sub depending on your comfort and desires.

Free crafting bag would infact devalue a sub. As without it I would not be subbing . Thats a fact. As well as a lot of other people who would not sub anymore. Zenimax is a business. They know what their doing with the crafting bag. They are making a lot of money because of it.

@dbgager

Are you even reading my comment?

We are suggesting that there is an ample market opportunity to not only give access to an unlimited crafting bag via the subscription but to offer outside of eso plus but via crowns a limited crafting bag with options to pay crowns to upgrade it.

Crown cost aside....that's the context

I'm arguing that other comments suggesting the crown cost is wrong because it shouldn't not be as high as some have suggested because their understanding of the actual cost is inaccurate.

Not going to happen. They are making max profit off it now via subs. Thats a losing proposition on their part.

@dbgager

O K so you're not reading it at all.
Honestly, eso plus is going to change which is the purpose of their thread last week so let's not pretend things aren't going to change.

The bag piece and the heavily discussed housing lack of storage is a major topic of discussion so it's illogical to comment not going to happen consider what I wrote above and what's changed in the last 30 days

Appleblade · February 2017

I just started a sub to get the crafting bag. Sweet Azura, is that better. Bye bye mules.

Also, costume dyeing turned out to be more awesome than I expected. You can really make the Seducer and Saint armors really slick looking.

jakeedmundson · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

Most games allow for a more reasonable amount of storage space as the game grows. (not specifically a crafting bag) At least enough to accommodate the players needs. In ESO, if you play two or 3 characters... you likely won't have room in your bank to just store useful gear (think multiple builds and/or class specs)
Diablo 3, for one example, started having some storage issues as they added new sets, new classes, more content, etc. They realized this after complaints from the player base. "hey, we have no room to store craft mats and the MANY items needed to play multiple classes".... so they added in more storage. They get one stash tab PER character class + a crafting tab that is shared between all characters. Granted, it took some time... but they did not CHARGE people for it.

Elsonso · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

They took all other value out of subbing.

To be clear, they did not take all other value out of subbing. Your opinion of the value is what has changed. They are still providing the same 5 DLC packs today that they did at the beginning of the year. They still provide the 10% XP, Inspiration, and Gold boost. They still provide costume dye capabilities, and the crafting bag, and neither of them has changed. Still provide the same 1500 Crowns. The subscription price is the same.

What has changed is the rest of the game. They have added two updates that have weak ties to ESO Plus. They have added Crown Crates, with even weaker ties to ESO Plus. They have changed their business model (again) in a way that does not benefit subscriptions (again).

This is why I maintain that the last thing that they need to do is pull Crafting Bags out of ESO Plus and provide them, in any form, outside of a subscription. Wrong direction. They need to be putting more into ESO Plus, not taking stuff out.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

They do need more storage though, it's a shame that ZoS simply refuses to increase storage and make you play an inventory mini game like no other vid game I have ever seen.

ZoS talks about quality of life changes but they absolutely refuse this one.

This is because the purpose of limiting the storage in the game is to encourage you to make decisions about what to keep. You are not supposed to keep everything. The Crafting Bag is designed to pull crafting supplies out of inventory so that you have room for the stuff that you should be keeping. Now, players just need to decide what they need to keep.

Also, ZOS does not really follow through on QoL stuff with excitement. If they did, we would not have the guild trader/guild store interface that we have. We would be able to reply to mail. We would have a Looking For Guild. Guild banks would have better management and organization options. Consoles would have addons. There are plenty of QoL things that they can do, and have not done.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

ESO Plus is zero because you are paying for the crowns? This is no more true than saying that the ESO Plus crowns are free. Neither statement is true, although you might feel differently.

ESO Plus is a subscription bundle. It is not crowns, or XP, or crafting bags, or costume dyes, or DLC, or any other single thing. You cannot get the bundle unless you pay for ESO Plus.

So, yes, you are paying for the crafting bag. You are paying for the crowns. You are paying for the XP boost. You are paying for everything in the bundle. Whether you use it, or want it. You can choose to not pay for the bundle, but if you do pay for it, you get the whole bundle, and it costs whatever you are paying for the subscription.

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

the craft bag? sure its useful, but it is NOT worth $15 EVERY month.

Is for some of us. The bag is the biggest reason I sub....and most crafters I know feel the same way.

You should have read down to my last line...
"What happened to everyone's sense of value? We all just lie down and take it for some reason..."

btw, i also craft on my main... it sucks to not have the bag but i'm not paying 15 bucks JUST for the bag. That's insanely stupid. This game is falling off my to-do list pretty fast.

You're paying for something that should be included in the base game... you know, that thing many of us payed $50+ to get? They made all these items/sets and hundreds of craft materials... but no way to hold them (even just the useful ones). 240 slots in the bank is not enough space for anyone that has more than 1 character if you use it for crafting.
When i first started, i played only my DK for months. I had my craft mats in my bank with a few keep-able items. It filled it completely. After i started an ALT. I ran out of room almost immediately. Later they added the craft bag to ESO+... GREAT - I was subbing at the time and it was a nice addition! Now it is the ONLY reason to sub.... not worth the money.

They took all other value out of subbing.

What game has such a thing in there base game..None that I can think of. And there are more things than the crafting bag that are a reason to sub..DLC included...1500 Crowns a month..etc. But the crafting bag is the main thing. SO it is well worth the cost for most people. Also people who sub are a paying far more than the initial cost of the game.$180 a year more. There has to be a good reason to infact do that. I don't understand why people think they should get such a powerful item at no cost.

Most games allow for a more reasonable amount of storage space as the game grows. (not specifically a crafting bag) At least enough to accommodate the players needs. In ESO, if you play two or 3 characters... you likely won't have room in your bank to just store useful gear (think multiple builds and/or class specs)
Diablo 3, for one example, started having some storage issues as they added new sets, new classes, more content, etc. They realized this after complaints from the player base. "hey, we have no room to store craft mats and the MANY items needed to play multiple classes".... so they added in more storage. They get one stash tab PER character class + a crafting tab that is shared between all characters. Granted, it took some time... but they did not CHARGE people for it.

Thats the inconvenience you take for playing for free. The crafting bag is a marketing idea. And it seems to me like it works. Diablo 3 is not really an MMO and is not set up for subs. Its a single player game with multiplayer aspects.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

They took all other value out of subbing.

To be clear, they did not take all other value out of subbing. Your opinion of the value is what has changed. They are still providing the same 5 DLC packs today that they did at the beginning of the year. They still provide the 10% XP, Inspiration, and Gold boost. They still provide costume dye capabilities, and the crafting bag, and neither of them has changed. Still provide the same 1500 Crowns. The subscription price is the same.

What has changed is the rest of the game. They have added two updates that have weak ties to ESO Plus. They have added Crown Crates, with even weaker ties to ESO Plus. They have changed their business model (again) in a way that does not benefit subscriptions (again).

This is why I maintain that the last thing that they need to do is pull Crafting Bags out of ESO Plus and provide them, in any form, outside of a subscription. Wrong direction. They need to be putting more into ESO Plus, not taking stuff out.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

They do need more storage though, it's a shame that ZoS simply refuses to increase storage and make you play an inventory mini game like no other vid game I have ever seen.

ZoS talks about quality of life changes but they absolutely refuse this one.

This is because the purpose of limiting the storage in the game is to encourage you to make decisions about what to keep. You are not supposed to keep everything. The Crafting Bag is designed to pull crafting supplies out of inventory so that you have room for the stuff that you should be keeping. Now, players just need to decide what they need to keep.

Also, ZOS does not really follow through on QoL stuff with excitement. If they did, we would not have the guild trader/guild store interface that we have. We would be able to reply to mail. We would have a Looking For Guild. Guild banks would have better management and organization options. Consoles would have addons. There are plenty of QoL things that they can do, and have not done.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ESO Plus subscribers:
-They are paying for 1500 crowns
-They are setting up a subscription that may or may not renew
-Your subscription cost is $0
-Your subscription provides eso plus benefits but you and everyone else even me who has an active sub isn't paying a penny for a crafting bag.

ESO Plus is zero because you are paying for the crowns? This is no more true than saying that the ESO Plus crowns are free. Neither statement is true, although you might feel differently.

ESO Plus is a subscription bundle. It is not crowns, or XP, or crafting bags, or costume dyes, or DLC, or any other single thing. You cannot get the bundle unless you pay for ESO Plus.

So, yes, you are paying for the crafting bag. You are paying for the crowns. You are paying for the XP boost. You are paying for everything in the bundle. Whether you use it, or want it. You can choose to not pay for the bundle, but if you do pay for it, you get the whole bundle, and it costs whatever you are paying for the subscription.

@lordrichter

The monetary value of ESO (what's established in terms of real money) is quantifiable by
-Crowns
-DLC (no value of its own cause it's quantified as crowns that cost $14.99 for 30 days in this context)

Anything else is a personal "opinion" based value but it has no established monetary value so it's inaccurate to argue that you're paying real money for it because the established monetary values are only those above. Your sub value monetarily is $0 so that bundle you're referring to is $14.99 for dlc access and crowns but by spending this under the subscription sku you get for no additional cost other benefits limited to having an active sub.

No one is paying for:
-crafting bag because it doesn't have a monetary value

Other benefits below also do not have established monetary values because they either are accessible in-game or not for sale.

-exp bonuses
-research
-dye costumes
-gold

jakeedmundson · February 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

They took all other value out of subbing.

To be clear, they did not take all other value out of subbing. Your opinion of the value is what has changed. They are still providing the same 5 DLC packs today that they did at the beginning of the year. They still provide the 10% XP, Inspiration, and Gold boost. They still provide costume dye capabilities, and the crafting bag, and neither of them has changed. Still provide the same 1500 Crowns. The subscription price is the same.

Yes they still give the dlcs... but it's become quantity > quality.... if all the dlc content was more like wrothgar, i would have a much more positive opinion. Instead, we get garbage like DB and TG and Homestead... little to no content. Grind, grind, grind....

What has changed is the rest of the game. They have added two updates that have weak ties to ESO Plus. They have added Crown Crates, with even weaker ties to ESO Plus. They have changed their business model (again) in a way that does not benefit subscriptions (again).

They need to be putting more into ESO Plus, not taking stuff out.

I definitely agree with the last paragraph and sentence you have above.... If they added MORE to eso plus, they could easily afford to put the craft bag in the crown store and not have everyone angry about subbing... as long as they still left the craft bag in the eso+ sub.

Akrasjel · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

Weird question is weird

leothedino · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

It's getting a bit annoying hearing self-entitled moaning and groaning about how you 'purchased the game for $50 and should get everything included'. Apparently these people forgot other triple A mmo's that charge huge prices for their games and (unlike ESO where it is optional), force you to sub regardless and without perks and bonuses.

kratier · February 2017

this is the only they they have of value for eso plus, they will never make it available for outright purchase. with the release of morrowind they made it clear they want to nickel and dime everyone

idk · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

In this thread people with disposable income vote to cement their pay-to-win advantage in this game.

P2W. Lol

cpuScientist · February 2017

Listen with the subs you get all dlc free. Well except for the next big one. Which is huh. Well we will get all those after that. Well except for some that while being dlc are now called chapters.

Screw it just sell the craft bags.

If the only reason people sub is because of that bag, then ZOS is not providing incentives to be a sub. And the only reason many sub is for the bags. That's bad on ZOS IMO...

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

cpuScientist wrote: »

Listen with the subs you get all dlc free. Well except for the next big one. Which is huh. Well we will get all those after that. Well except for some that while being dlc are now called chapters.

Screw it just sell the craft bags.

If the only reason people sub is because of that bag, then ZOS is not providing incentives to be a sub. And the only reason many sub is for the bags. That's bad on ZOS IMO...

The craft bag is the incentive. So what do you mean there not providing incentives. The dumb thing to do from a marketing standpoint is to remove the incentive.

jakeedmundson · February 2017

leothedino wrote: »

It's getting a bit annoying hearing self-entitled moaning and groaning about how you 'purchased the game for $50 and should get everything included'. Apparently these people forgot other triple A mmo's that charge huge prices for their games and (unlike ESO where it is optional), force you to sub regardless and without perks and bonuses.

"Everything included" = reasonable storage space in your eyes?

sorry... just sounds strange when you put it that way. Silly us... expecting the game to supply us with necessary accommodations for items.

PS.... most people in here would buy it from the crown store for a 1-time fee. not asking for everything included. (even though storage space should have been a given from the start)

Jimbullbee85 · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

Phew! So glad to see those results

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leothedino wrote: »

It's getting a bit annoying hearing self-entitled moaning and groaning about how you 'purchased the game for $50 and should get everything included'. Apparently these people forgot other triple A mmo's that charge huge prices for their games and (unlike ESO where it is optional), force you to sub regardless and without perks and bonuses.

"Everything included" = reasonable storage space in your eyes?

sorry... just sounds strange when you put it that way. Silly us... expecting the game to supply us with necessary accommodations for items.

PS.... most people in here would buy it from the crown store for a 1-time fee. not asking for everything included. (even though storage space should have been a given from the start)

Its not a necessary item. Its a convenience item. There is nothing you cannot do in the game without it. Lets me ask you this if they removed the crafting bag from ESO+ and just made it like a $40 Crown Store item what do you think would happen to a lot of the people who are subbing right now. Especially since getting crowns is part of ESO+. They would simply just buy the bag and never sub again. Would that be good for Zenimax or just good for the players.

jakeedmundson · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leothedino wrote: »

It's getting a bit annoying hearing self-entitled moaning and groaning about how you 'purchased the game for $50 and should get everything included'. Apparently these people forgot other triple A mmo's that charge huge prices for their games and (unlike ESO where it is optional), force you to sub regardless and without perks and bonuses.

"Everything included" = reasonable storage space in your eyes?

sorry... just sounds strange when you put it that way. Silly us... expecting the game to supply us with necessary accommodations for items.

PS.... most people in here would buy it from the crown store for a 1-time fee. not asking for everything included. (even though storage space should have been a given from the start)

Its not a necessary item. Its a convenience item. There is nothing you cannot do in the game without it. Lets me ask you this if they removed the crafting bag from ESO+ and just made it like a $40 Crown Store item what do you think would happen to a lot of the people who are subbing right now. Would that be good for Zenimax or just good for the players.

If they kept with their original business plan and included all DLC like they said they would ... they wouldn't lose ANY subscribers. People aren't happy about ESO + after the morrowind announcement... regardless of crafting bags.

I actually saw this on a load screen for ps4 yesterday - "An ESO + membership includes all downloadable content!" Maybe not verbatim but pretty close to what it said.... i had a little laugh/scoff and thought... "except for new chapters

"

Also... do you mean to say you support a company making more money of you and everyone else... while still taking the shaft from other directions as well? of course making the craft bag available in the crown store would be good for the PLAYERS. Customer satisfaction is pretty important you know...

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leothedino wrote: »

It's getting a bit annoying hearing self-entitled moaning and groaning about how you 'purchased the game for $50 and should get everything included'. Apparently these people forgot other triple A mmo's that charge huge prices for their games and (unlike ESO where it is optional), force you to sub regardless and without perks and bonuses.

"Everything included" = reasonable storage space in your eyes?

sorry... just sounds strange when you put it that way. Silly us... expecting the game to supply us with necessary accommodations for items.

PS.... most people in here would buy it from the crown store for a 1-time fee. not asking for everything included. (even though storage space should have been a given from the start)

Its not a necessary item. Its a convenience item. There is nothing you cannot do in the game without it. Lets me ask you this if they removed the crafting bag from ESO+ and just made it like a $40 Crown Store item what do you think would happen to a lot of the people who are subbing right now. Would that be good for Zenimax or just good for the players.

If they kept with their original business plan and included all DLC like they said they would ... they wouldn't lose ANY subscribers. People aren't happy about ESO + after the morrowind announcement... regardless of crafting bags.

I actually saw this on a load screen for ps4 yesterday - "An ESO + membership includes all downloadable content!" Maybe not verbatim but pretty close to what it said.... i had a little laugh/scoff and thought... "except for new chapters "

Also... do you mean to say you support a company making more money of you and everyone else... while still taking the shaft from other directions as well? of course making the craft bag available in the crown store would be good for the PLAYERS. Customer satisfaction is pretty important you know...

They would lose a lot of subscribers. What other reason is there to subscribe. Crowns are given to you as part of the sub. Subs eventually own all the DLC anyway. And your speaking for yourself not people. Most people in this thread appear to be more than happy with the $15 a month for the perks it provides. Crafting bag, 1500 Crowns, DLC up till this point, other smaller perks. Its well worth it. Some games are sub for everyone and you get nothing extra.

SO what you suggest is they lose a ton of money so your happy...

jakeedmundson · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leothedino wrote: »

It's getting a bit annoying hearing self-entitled moaning and groaning about how you 'purchased the game for $50 and should get everything included'. Apparently these people forgot other triple A mmo's that charge huge prices for their games and (unlike ESO where it is optional), force you to sub regardless and without perks and bonuses.

"Everything included" = reasonable storage space in your eyes?

sorry... just sounds strange when you put it that way. Silly us... expecting the game to supply us with necessary accommodations for items.

PS.... most people in here would buy it from the crown store for a 1-time fee. not asking for everything included. (even though storage space should have been a given from the start)

Its not a necessary item. Its a convenience item. There is nothing you cannot do in the game without it. Lets me ask you this if they removed the crafting bag from ESO+ and just made it like a $40 Crown Store item what do you think would happen to a lot of the people who are subbing right now. Would that be good for Zenimax or just good for the players.

If they kept with their original business plan and included all DLC like they said they would ... they wouldn't lose ANY subscribers. People aren't happy about ESO + after the morrowind announcement... regardless of crafting bags.

I actually saw this on a load screen for ps4 yesterday - "An ESO + membership includes all downloadable content!" Maybe not verbatim but pretty close to what it said.... i had a little laugh/scoff and thought... "except for new chapters "

Also... do you mean to say you support a company making more money of you and everyone else... while still taking the shaft from other directions as well? of course making the craft bag available in the crown store would be good for the PLAYERS. Customer satisfaction is pretty important you know...

They would lose a lot of subscribers. What other reason is there to subscribe. Crowns are given to you as part of the sub. Subs eventually own all the DLC anyway. And your speaking for yourself not people. Most people in this thread appear to be more than happy with the $15 a month for the perks it provides. Crafting bag, 1500 Crowns, DLC up till this point, other smaller perks. Its well worth it. Some games are sub for everyone and you get nothing extra.

I love how people keep mentioning "other games" or "other MMOs"....
you went into those other games KNOWING what you were paying for..the option to play that game.

Just like when we all went in to ESO+ we were told all content was included with membership.... except now they change things and make a sub less valuable. THAT is why many people aren't happy. How was wrothgar included but morrowind is not? they are similar sizes and have similar amount of content.
Wrothgar = DLC
Morrowind = ...Chapter?

ok... and that brings us to the craft bag issue... since ACTUAL content is no longer included in ESO+... some of us feel like it is no longer worth 15/month to basically get the crafting bag.

So again, what happened to people's sense of value?... apparently everyone is ok with throwing money at nothing. Look at housing... 4 million in game gold? or $100 in crown store?... it's pathetic because i know people will fork that money (not gold) over.

dbgager · February 2017

Permanent crafting bag must be accessible only by ESO+ players.

Obviously you never played WOW Jake where every single expansion to the game costed $40. There was I believe at least 6 of them. Plus a monthly sub. If you don't want Morrowind don't get it. If you don't think the sub is worth it don't sub. You have that option.