Can We All Agree "Bow Builds" Aren't Viable?

subtlezeroub17_ESO · February 2017

Not a fan of stamina dps, but for the sake of diversity, Snipe has gotta go!

Change it to Quick shot: An instant hit with your bow that does an additional 3% bonus damage.

Give it two morphs:

-Snipe: Acts just like it does now with the cast, except it does 10% more damage and increases the critical chance by up to 30% based on distance.

-Envenom: Changes the damage to poison and also causes all poison DoT effects to instantly deal 5% of their total damage each hit.

Boom. Archers are now viable.

jaye63 · February 2017

hydrocynus wrote: »

Why can't I tank with a bow? Ice mages get all the fun and my stick is just as strong as theirs and is even curvy like a shield. Where's the love? Bring back bow tanking!

Tank= Heavy armor stand in front of the enemy keeping agor so others can DPS without worrying about getting hit much

You dont tank with a bow. You DPS with it.

iamkeebler · February 2017

I'm a dps playing dual wielding night blade. I spent the whole game doing only dual wield until I hit vet level and I noticed the only area I was having problems with this play style was in pvp. So I recently started to work on the bow and its mechanics. The issue I was running into is that I had no good ranged or aoe attacks as a solid dual wield build. The bow adds a nice versatility for when I want to be a part of the action but not getting completely murdered and t-bagged. Is it a great weapon and would I go solid bow? Hallllllll naww! But it does have its uses.

FerrumnCutem · February 2017

ZiRM wrote: »

I play the game I purchased the way I want.

Don't go around screwing up groups that want to get things done just because you payed for the game. We all want to have a good time, however, bow dps is just not that right now.

Pallio · February 2017

Subversus wrote: »

Yeah, buff bow builds! My gankblade would rejoice

That is the problem, if Bows were made viable in PvE, pvpers would exploit them like everything else.

Durham · February 2017

Bow is fine in PVP... great passives for hit and run...

Katahdin · February 2017

Bow has its place and can be very useful on certain fights. Sometimes you want to be ranged on certain bosses. I use bow on my second bar on all my stam dps

My stamNb has done vWGT and the bow was pretty useful there.

Hitting the rifts on the inhibitor fight from range and taking them out quickly instead of running all over the whole room worked well.

It was also very useful in the Molag Kena fight.
I was able to take out the atronach from across the platform as well as the 4 buff adds she spawns from range. Sure worked better and faster than trying to dodge the 2 rotating electric walls and radiating electic AOE attacks to get over there fast and melee them. Also, they explode when they die so you don't want to be close to them.

hydrocynus · February 2017

jaye63 wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Why can't I tank with a bow? Ice mages get all the fun and my stick is just as strong as theirs and is even curvy like a shield. Where's the love? Bring back bow tanking!

Tank= Heavy armor stand in front of the enemy keeping agor so others can DPS without worrying about getting hit much

You dont tank with a bow. You DPS with it.

Thanks. Maybe I Should have used the tongue in cheek emote in my original post. How could anyone take what I said seriously? Lol. I thought the curvy stick comment was enough to let everyone know I was having a laugh.

But thanks for putting me straight. Guess I needed it.

Tan9oSuccka · February 2017

I think Bows are fine as part of a rotation with DW or 2H.

Endless hail, poison injection are great skills.

What's the problem?

I honestly have never seen a bow/bow build.

Castagere · February 2017

I remember picking Bow as my second weapon because how op NPC bow users are. I thought i would get the same power as the NPC's. Man was i wrong the player bow user is in no way as good. To this day the mobs i have trouble with are the freaking Bow users and their 2 shot kill they always have but as a player you will never be that good.

bryanhaas · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Guys, can we please just stop with the bow build nonsense? Please? I don't mean to come off as an elitist. I don't mean to come off as a jerk, nor am I trying to tell someone how to play their game (to a degree). But can we please stop with the bow builds in PvE? It's ridiculous.

I'm tired of going to a dolmen, and seeing no lie waves of people DPS dancing while using Bow light attacks. Or joining a random veteran dungeon via group finder to help lend a hand, only to come across another DPS with double bow or bow and 2H. Using the 2H only to heal, and resume casting bow skills and light attacks. It's silly at this point. Dolmen, world boss, dungeon, etc. It's like these dudes are everywhere! Stahp! :c

And what irks me even more...? Is when I try to explain to folks that it isn't that they're using a bow that's bad, as I use a bow on my backbar on stamina-based characters. But that they're building completely around the bow, and expecting high damage. No. It doesn't work that way. Endless Hail. Poison Injection. That's it. You're good. You don't need anymore bow skills. I promise. You're just taking up slots that could be used for better: Damage, sustain, and or utility.

This. Is. NOT. Skyrim. I love Skyrim. I think it's a wonderful game, in regards to it's: Combat system, lore, gear design, crafting system, interaction with the world, etc. Skyrim is great. Yes. An excellent game. But ESO is NOT Skyrim. Just because you can light attack and do all your trick shots in Skyrim to gain easy kills, does not mean it will work on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT game. /EndRant

Edit: I just don't see why so many damn people gravitate toward bows/sniper-related weaponry for their main weapon choice, especially when looking at things for what they are. It's not just on ESO. It's on Overwatch too. As well as other games that a sniper is playable. "Ermagerd a sniper! I must pick them!" "OMG! A sniper rifle! Let me go and make use of this, even though it's completely impractical for the given situation and environment!" "What!? This game has a means of me to snipe!? Sorry guys, but I'm gonna go snipe. And don't try to tell me otherwise of how to play my game."

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

What about trials? There are instances where you can't be close to the boss so bow seems to work well there. Btw I prefer magic for dps.

Soella · February 2017

Only a few vets require everyone to follow meta builds. And I personally would prefer to do that content not with PUG. Why on the earth someone has concerns what are other players doing on dolmens is completely beyond my understanding.

I love feeling of bow in my hands, played archers in all MMOs way before Skyrim, and I hate the fact that I should go mostly melee in hard content. Let me play as I want at least where I can do it.

NocturnalGuideMe · February 2017

...what This one thinks of all the bow and arrow hate?..

maybe too many adventurers with knee problems in here hmm?

zaria · February 2017

If the healer has bow on both bars it is an problem.
I think we can agree here.

Knootewoot · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

But, but, Legolass.

To be honest i always played bowdude since Daggerfall with a small dagger as backup weapon (or sword and shield).

I played the entire ESO quests with only bow and it was real fun.

Sadly for dungeons and trials they are only good to add some extra dps by giving dots and some AOE's. I wish Bow was viable as a main weapon for dungeons.

But if one wants to use a bow in PvE for, let's say a Dolmen or overland boss, nobody should stop them. Of course only spamming light attacks is lame since it is not so hard to weave them between poison arrow and use barrage once in a while.

Bow is still fun in PvE for solo quests, overland bosses and dolmens.

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

zaria wrote: »

If the healer has bow on both bars it is an problem.
I think we can agree here.

To be honest, if I came across a healer wielding a bow in general — I think there would be problems. ._.

NocturnalGuideMe · February 2017

you guys know why they dont play Bow in Mexico?

they dont Habanero

notimetocare · February 2017

Define viable? Bow builds can do everything except maybe vMA and new vet trials. Can we stop telling people how to play?

dbgager · February 2017

Not sure what this guy is talking about but I don't seem to have much problem in PVE with my Bow build. I have not tried PVP yet . But i am sure I will do just fine. I play for fun..not just to maximize DPS.

scorpiodog · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Guys, can we please just stop with the bow build nonsense? Please? I don't mean to come off as an elitist. I don't mean to come off as a jerk, nor am I trying to tell someone how to play their game (to a degree). But can we please stop with the bow builds in PvE? It's ridiculous.

I'm tired of going to a dolmen, and seeing no lie waves of people DPS dancing while using Bow light attacks. Or joining a random veteran dungeon via group finder to help lend a hand, only to come across another DPS with double bow or bow and 2H. Using the 2H only to heal, and resume casting bow skills and light attacks. It's silly at this point. Dolmen, world boss, dungeon, etc. It's like these dudes are everywhere! Stahp! :c

And what irks me even more...? Is when I try to explain to folks that it isn't that they're using a bow that's bad, as I use a bow on my backbar on stamina-based characters. But that they're building completely around the bow, and expecting high damage. No. It doesn't work that way. Endless Hail. Poison Injection. That's it. You're good. You don't need anymore bow skills. I promise. You're just taking up slots that could be used for better: Damage, sustain, and or utility.

This. Is. NOT. Skyrim. I love Skyrim. I think it's a wonderful game, in regards to it's: Combat system, lore, gear design, crafting system, interaction with the world, etc. Skyrim is great. Yes. An excellent game. But ESO is NOT Skyrim. Just because you can light attack and do all your trick shots in Skyrim to gain easy kills, does not mean it will work on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT game. /EndRant

Edit: I just don't see why so many damn people gravitate toward bows/sniper-related weaponry for their main weapon choice, especially when looking at things for what they are. It's not just on ESO. It's on Overwatch too. As well as other games that a sniper is playable. "Ermagerd a sniper! I must pick them!" "OMG! A sniper rifle! Let me go and make use of this, even though it's completely impractical for the given situation and environment!" "What!? This game has a means of me to snipe!? Sorry guys, but I'm gonna go snipe. And don't try to tell me otherwise of how to play my game."

Why is it so popular to be an archer/bowman suddenly? On paper it doesn't even seem too logical, as at close range you're screwed. Ugh.

I can understand you not liking being grouped with a Bow Spammer in a 5-man, but why do you care what people do on Dolmens and WB?

Chill a bit and let people just do what they want. Maybe they are just wanting to level up their bow skill? I would never assume someone at a Dolmen is playing their "endgame" build. Lots of times with a low level player I'll spam a skill just to build up that skill line, and but you try using snipe at a popular dolmen you won't hit anything, lol. By the time snipe fires off your target is dead.

SaRuZ · February 2017

So you're saying NOT to light attack bow through dungeons?

Bobby_V_Rockit · February 2017

Play how you want, but allow others to play how they want, which is without a low DPS bow build on the team...

GarnetFire17 · February 2017

I love my bow + 2h stam sorc. I don't use light attack though. heavy attack followed by silver shards. buffed with all the Fighters guild abilities you can and Bound armaments. It actually packs a punch from long range. You have your heals from crit surge, you can stack aoe with arrow barrage and hurricane. And I execute with reverse slice with my maul.Throw in the dawnbreaker ult once in while. And i alse use Power overload and keep dark deal on the 3rd bar if stam gets low.

DragonBound · February 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

First off, the reason bows are so common at dolmens is because everything dies so quickly that you need to be spamming ranged attacks to get kill credit. Trying to run around finding things to melee is pointless, and almost all stamina builds use a bow back bar anyways.

That said, bow SHOULD be a solid choice as a main weapon for stamina builds, and the only thing holding it back is a proper spammable damage attack. Of course, if attack canceling/weaving was fixed, bow would be fine.

Imo they need to replace magnum shot, or at least one of its morphs, with an instant, full range direct damage attack that can be woven with light or medium attacks to contend with other options for damage. Bow has good dots with poison injection and endless hail, but snipe fails as a spammable.

Can you explain to me why it is a bow and arrow would be a main choice of weaponry for a stamina-oriented build, when you have: Axes, hammers, dual-wielded daggers and swords, and greatswords, and swords and shields? How does that even sound right? Lol. As a backup weapon? Sure. I can see that, and use a bow as my backup weapon of choice for stamina builds. But main weapon? Lol nope.

I met someone a few days ago saying the same thing at a WB with their double bow build. Know what happened? Lol. They kept light attacking the boss with poison injections here and there, and proceeded to get slapped silly. Lmao. I just watched knowing that I was correct, and how what they were attempting to do was futile. But still let them have at it. After getting brutally annihilated about a good 7 to 8 times, he cussed me out and proceeded with leaving. I then proceeded with solo'ing said boss, and collecting my loot. Poor fella. He doesn't get it.

Someone is obviously not well versed in just how deadly bows were on the medieval battlefield.

An axe is great, but good luck swinging it when you get shot full of arrows at fifty yards.

There's no reason a bow shouldn't work as a primary weapon, other than the fact that the bow skill tree lacks the ability for it.

If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon.

Archers were deadly on battlefield due to Barrage, the main work was done by foot soldiers in melee combat.

The battle your thinking about where a few thousand longbow men destroyed armoured knights, was because the Longbow men were behind big walls and it would seem wrapping a french man in metal makes him stupid.

So no its a support weapon, not a primary unless your Robinhood.

However this is a fantasy mmorpg about build diversity, forget real life tactics.

DragonBound · February 2017

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

I love my bow + 2h stam sorc. I don't use light attack though. heavy attack followed by silver shards. buffed with all the Fighters guild abilities you can and Bound armaments. It actually packs a punch from long range. You have your heals from crit surge, you can stack aoe with arrow barrage and hurricane. And I execute with reverse slice with my maul.Throw in the dawnbreaker ult once in while. And i alse use Power overload and keep dark deal on the 3rd bar if stam gets low.

Hey you have any tips? Also what is silver shards?

Anti_Virus · February 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

First off, the reason bows are so common at dolmens is because everything dies so quickly that you need to be spamming ranged attacks to get kill credit. Trying to run around finding things to melee is pointless, and almost all stamina builds use a bow back bar anyways.

That said, bow SHOULD be a solid choice as a main weapon for stamina builds, and the only thing holding it back is a proper spammable damage attack. Of course, if attack canceling/weaving was fixed, bow would be fine.

Imo they need to replace magnum shot, or at least one of its morphs, with an instant, full range direct damage attack that can be woven with light or medium attacks to contend with other options for damage. Bow has good dots with poison injection and endless hail, but snipe fails as a spammable.

Can you explain to me why it is a bow and arrow would be a main choice of weaponry for a stamina-oriented build, when you have: Axes, hammers, dual-wielded daggers and swords, and greatswords, and swords and shields? How does that even sound right? Lol. As a backup weapon? Sure. I can see that, and use a bow as my backup weapon of choice for stamina builds. But main weapon? Lol nope.

I met someone a few days ago saying the same thing at a WB with their double bow build. Know what happened? Lol. They kept light attacking the boss with poison injections here and there, and proceeded to get slapped silly. Lmao. I just watched knowing that I was correct, and how what they were attempting to do was futile. But still let them have at it. After getting brutally annihilated about a good 7 to 8 times, he cussed me out and proceeded with leaving. I then proceeded with solo'ing said boss, and collecting my loot. Poor fella. He doesn't get it.

Someone is obviously not well versed in just how deadly bows were on the medieval battlefield.

An axe is great, but good luck swinging it when you get shot full of arrows at fifty yards.

There's no reason a bow shouldn't work as a primary weapon, other than the fact that the bow skill tree lacks the ability for it.

If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon.

Archers were deadly on battlefield due to Barrage, the main work was done by foot soldiers in melee combat.

The battle your thinking about where a few thousand longbow men destroyed armoured knights, was because the Longbow men were behind big walls and it would seem wrapping a french man in metal makes him stupid.

So no its a support weapon, not a primary unless your Robinhood.

And if you wear robes and carry a staff what are you going to do? Beat people on the head with your stick?
And get sliced up through your armor?

So no Staff is a support weapon, not a primary unless you're gandalf.

NocturnalGuideMe · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

First off, the reason bows are so common at dolmens is because everything dies so quickly that you need to be spamming ranged attacks to get kill credit. Trying to run around finding things to melee is pointless, and almost all stamina builds use a bow back bar anyways.

That said, bow SHOULD be a solid choice as a main weapon for stamina builds, and the only thing holding it back is a proper spammable damage attack. Of course, if attack canceling/weaving was fixed, bow would be fine.

Imo they need to replace magnum shot, or at least one of its morphs, with an instant, full range direct damage attack that can be woven with light or medium attacks to contend with other options for damage. Bow has good dots with poison injection and endless hail, but snipe fails as a spammable.

Can you explain to me why it is a bow and arrow would be a main choice of weaponry for a stamina-oriented build, when you have: Axes, hammers, dual-wielded daggers and swords, and greatswords, and swords and shields? How does that even sound right? Lol. As a backup weapon? Sure. I can see that, and use a bow as my backup weapon of choice for stamina builds. But main weapon? Lol nope.

I met someone a few days ago saying the same thing at a WB with their double bow build. Know what happened? Lol. They kept light attacking the boss with poison injections here and there, and proceeded to get slapped silly. Lmao. I just watched knowing that I was correct, and how what they were attempting to do was futile. But still let them have at it. After getting brutally annihilated about a good 7 to 8 times, he cussed me out and proceeded with leaving. I then proceeded with solo'ing said boss, and collecting my loot. Poor fella. He doesn't get it.

Someone is obviously not well versed in just how deadly bows were on the medieval battlefield.

An axe is great, but good luck swinging it when you get shot full of arrows at fifty yards.

There's no reason a bow shouldn't work as a primary weapon, other than the fact that the bow skill tree lacks the ability for it.

If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon.

Archers were deadly on battlefield due to Barrage, the main work was done by foot soldiers in melee combat.

The battle your thinking about where a few thousand longbow men destroyed armoured knights, was because the Longbow men were behind big walls and it would seem wrapping a french man in metal makes him stupid.

So no its a support weapon, not a primary unless your Robinhood.

And if you wear robes and carry a staff what are you going to do? Beat people on the head with your stick?
And get sliced up through your armor?

So no Staff is a support weapon, not a primary unless you're gandalf.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

NocturnalGuideMe wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

First off, the reason bows are so common at dolmens is because everything dies so quickly that you need to be spamming ranged attacks to get kill credit. Trying to run around finding things to melee is pointless, and almost all stamina builds use a bow back bar anyways.

That said, bow SHOULD be a solid choice as a main weapon for stamina builds, and the only thing holding it back is a proper spammable damage attack. Of course, if attack canceling/weaving was fixed, bow would be fine.

Imo they need to replace magnum shot, or at least one of its morphs, with an instant, full range direct damage attack that can be woven with light or medium attacks to contend with other options for damage. Bow has good dots with poison injection and endless hail, but snipe fails as a spammable.

Can you explain to me why it is a bow and arrow would be a main choice of weaponry for a stamina-oriented build, when you have: Axes, hammers, dual-wielded daggers and swords, and greatswords, and swords and shields? How does that even sound right? Lol. As a backup weapon? Sure. I can see that, and use a bow as my backup weapon of choice for stamina builds. But main weapon? Lol nope.

I met someone a few days ago saying the same thing at a WB with their double bow build. Know what happened? Lol. They kept light attacking the boss with poison injections here and there, and proceeded to get slapped silly. Lmao. I just watched knowing that I was correct, and how what they were attempting to do was futile. But still let them have at it. After getting brutally annihilated about a good 7 to 8 times, he cussed me out and proceeded with leaving. I then proceeded with solo'ing said boss, and collecting my loot. Poor fella. He doesn't get it.

Someone is obviously not well versed in just how deadly bows were on the medieval battlefield.

An axe is great, but good luck swinging it when you get shot full of arrows at fifty yards.

There's no reason a bow shouldn't work as a primary weapon, other than the fact that the bow skill tree lacks the ability for it.

If you are on the battlefield with only a fecking bow, you are a dead man, if I have an axe, I have a shield, I'm also running at you. There is a reason archers stand behind infantry you know! It's not a primary weapon.

Archers were deadly on battlefield due to Barrage, the main work was done by foot soldiers in melee combat.

The battle your thinking about where a few thousand longbow men destroyed armoured knights, was because the Longbow men were behind big walls and it would seem wrapping a french man in metal makes him stupid.

So no its a support weapon, not a primary unless your Robinhood.

And if you wear robes and carry a staff what are you going to do? Beat people on the head with your stick?
And get sliced up through your armor?

So no Staff is a support weapon, not a primary unless you're gandalf.

Lol

Castagere · February 2017

dbgager wrote: »

Not sure what this guy is talking about but I don't seem to have much problem in PVE with my Bow build. I have not tried PVP yet . But i am sure I will do just fine. I play for fun..not just to maximize DPS.

I would love to form a guild with you of like minded players.

NocturnalGuideMe · February 2017

Castagere wrote: »

dbgager wrote: »

Not sure what this guy is talking about but I don't seem to have much problem in PVE with my Bow build. I have not tried PVP yet . But i am sure I will do just fine. I play for fun..not just to maximize DPS.

I would love to form a guild with you of like minded players.

The Lunar Collective is like that. new to veteran players and they have a decent store and no dues or anything. follow the link in my signature.