Current State of Heavy Armor

Derra · February 2017

Light armor needs mobility in some form (it´s light after all). I´d combine recovery and evocation into one passive and provide a new passive reducing potency and duration of snares/roots by 8% for every light armor piece equipped).

Medium armor needs survivability (already posted elsewhere - let medium provide 150 critresist per piece equipped as an additional feat of the stealth passive). This makes them either sturdier or enables them to utilize well fitted without becoming even more squishy.
You now have the choice to gain mobility+active defense or passive survivability by traits.

Xsorus · February 2017

I personally want to know why people somehow think Medium armor builds are somehow bad?

a Vast Majority of the Nightblade Proc builds people were whining about were based off Medium Armor Setups.

Medium Armor builds are incredibly powerful right now, Do they take straight up damage like Heavy? Nope..but that's not how that armor setup was designed..Its designed to be slippery and mobile while a Heavy Armor player is more of a Brawler

Light armor is designed for more Ranged Magicka damage then close quarters now unless you're a Sorc.

The days of past of medium armor Block Builds (that I ran forever) are over..and have been over...The days of Light armor DK's face tanking people is over as well...

Also the reason Heavy takes more punishment right now then Medium has more to do with the increase HP pool and Healing received then actual Armor or Spell Resist....

thankyourat · February 2017

Sharee wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

For simplicity's sake, let's say that without any armor or enchantments, and no CPs assigned whatsoever, a character has 500 Magicka and Stamina recovery.
In 5 Heavy, Constitution will grant an additional 493 of both, increasing Magicka and Stamina recovery to 993.

In 5 Light, Recovery will grant an additional 100 Magicka recovery, increasing Magicka recovery to 600, while Stamina recovery remains at 500.

In 7 Medium, Wind Walker will grant an additional 140 Stamina recovery, increasing Stamina recovery to 640, while Magicka recovery remains at 500.

The advantage of 5 light armor is that every piece of additional recovery your build has is 20% more effective than it would be in heavy armor.

You present an example where there is NONE additional recovery whatsoever - and you wonder why heavy armor seems better?
C'mon. That's like evaluating the recovery of heavy armor in a situation where you do not get hit at all.

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Now to consider cost reduction. To calculate this, I'm just going to increase the recovery stat by the cost reduction percentage, since cost reduction functions by making every point of your resources more effective, and thus makes the same amount of recovery go further. So if we consider cost reduction as a direct, percent-based increase to recovery, then effective Magicka recovery for 5 Light becomes 690, while effective Stamina recovery becomes 819.2, both of which are still outpaced by 5 Heavy, which has the additional advantage of restoring both resources.

How about we instead take an average skill that costs 2000 magicka and start from there. 15% cost reduction means you save 300 resources everytime you use the skill. If you spam the skill once per second, then that equals to having 600 resource recovery (since you "gain" 600 resources every 2 seconds). With even the gimped 600 magicka regen you used in the previous example, that's still 1200 magicka recovery in 5 light, and not 690.

One thing alot of people don't think of when comparing the sustain of heavy vs light or medium is heavy saves you resources because it relieves pressure from its increased tankiness and healing. For example I run heavy on my magblade so I don't need to run a damage shield. That saves me around 3000 magicka every 5 seconds or even more if I'm being pressured. Also my heals are alot stronger so that means I need to heal less. It's ridiculous I run 900 mag regen on my heavy armor magblade and I can fight for days. If I run light I need atleast 1700 mag recovery that's basically double and it still doesn't sustain as well as heavy armor. But I think the biggest thing is that I can still basically one shot any player with a heavy armor magblade. Heavy armor shouldn't be one shotting anyone. I'm running a very simple build of 5 heavy alchamist/ 5 spinner/ 2 Kena or skoria depending on how I'm feeling. So I have around 10 or 11k spell pen 4800 spell damage (that shouldn't even be possible in heavy) 22k resist on my offensive bar and almost 30k resist on my back bar. So why would I ever run light armor again when my damage in heavy is so high I can one shot players, while having better resource management, and increased survivability and healing

cpuScientist · February 2017

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

2. Your Sustain is trash-tier, even with blackrose and desert rose. Without a sustain set like Lich a HA user will run out of stamina/magicka very quickly.

Let's break this down a bit, shall we?

Constitution provides 186 Magicka and Stamina every 4 seconds for every piece of Heavy Armor equipped. In 5 heavy, this goes up to 986 of each, effectively granting 493 Magicka and Stamina recovery.

Light Armor passives increase Magicka recovery by 4% and reduce the cost of Magicka abilities by 3% for each piece of Light Armor equipped, granting 20% recovery and 15% cost reduction in 5 light.

Medium Armor passives increase Stamina recovery by 4% and reduce the cost of feats by 4% for piece of Medium Armor equipped, granting 28% recovery and 28% cost reduction in 7 Medium.

For simplicity's sake, let's say that without any armor or enchantments, and no CPs assigned whatsoever, a character has 500 Magicka and Stamina recovery.
In 5 Heavy, Constitution will grant an additional 493 of both, increasing Magicka and Stamina recovery to 993.

In 5 Light, Recovery will grant an additional 100 Magicka recovery, increasing Magicka recovery to 600, while Stamina recovery remains at 500.

In 7 Medium, Wind Walker will grant an additional 140 Stamina recovery, increasing Stamina recovery to 640, while Magicka recovery remains at 500.

Now to consider cost reduction. To calculate this, I'm just going to increase the recovery stat by the cost reduction percentage, since cost reduction functions by making every point of your resources more effective, and thus makes the same amount of recovery go further. So if we consider cost reduction as a direct, percent-based increase to recovery, then effective Magicka recovery for 5 Light becomes 690, while effective Stamina recovery becomes 819.2, both of which are still outpaced by 5 Heavy, which has the additional advantage of restoring both resources.
Disregarding cost reduction, 5 Light builds would need 872.5 recovery (without armor) for their Magicka recovery to be stronger in Light than Heavy, while 7 Medium builds would need 775.78 recovery for Medium armor to outpace Heavy. Considering cost reduction, this becomes 750.7 for 5 Light and 606.08 for 5 Medium.

So, after doing all this math, I'm going to draw a few conclusions. Note that this is exclusively based on Magicka and Stamina recovery.
Heavy armor is superior for builds that completely abandon recovery in favor of damage, since the flat value of Constitution is comparatively stronger at lower recovery levels.

Light and Medium armor provide vastly superior single-resource sustain for builds that invest heavily in recovery.

Heavy armor has the advantage of providing both resources; while sustain in your primary resource is likely weaker than it would be in light or medium armor, Constitution also provides a substantial boost to your secondary resource's recovery.

I think the bolded point is really the biggest draw of using Heavy Armor from a sustain standpoint. No, a Magicka build in 5 Heavy won't have as much sustain as they would in Light if both builds ran Seducer with recovery enchants on jewelry, but they will have substantially more Stamina to work with for keeping themselves alive.

This is why people say that the combination of Dark Deal and Constitution is overpowered. Dark Deal tops off their Stamina, while Constitution gives them a solid amount of Magicka to fuel their use of it. Since they can use the Magicka gained from Constitution to restore their Stamina, they can effectively double-dip in the Constitution passive by using it to restore their Stamina twice, and allowing them to have powerful sustain while completely neglecting recovery.

I hope this post provides some insight. If someone could double-check my math, that would be fabulous.

Meh I was wrong heavy is great. Although this demonstration is gimped as. The simple fact that you can get the other resource is key. My mag characters can effectively break free. And my stam characters can use their magicka skills effectively.

silky_soft · February 2017

Nerf block cost reduction

Weesacs · February 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

Light armor is designed for more Ranged Magicka damage then close quarters now unless you're a Sorc.

My magicka templar would beg to differ

makeumrage · February 2017

I believe heavy should have ALL spell damage taken away from its passives. Leave heavy sets as is though. Maybe change wraith passive to decrease block costs on damage instead of spell/weapok damage

Also, I think itd be nice to adjust Light armor passives. Maybe increase duration of shields if in 5 pieces light. Idk. Not a theory crafter.

Although heavy armor isnt the issue IMO itself. More so the bursty one shot capabilities in PvP of certain builds. ESO needs to do better at the way certain skills work in PvP vrs PvE.

Biro123 · February 2017

makeumrage wrote: »

I believe heavy should have ALL spell damage taken away from its passives. Leave heavy sets as is though. Maybe change wraith passive to decrease block costs on damage instead of spell/weapok damage

Also, I think itd be nice to adjust Light armor passives. Maybe increase duration of shields if in 5 pieces light. Idk. Not a theory crafter.

Although heavy armor isnt the issue IMO itself. More so the bursty one shot capabilities in PvP of certain builds. ESO needs to do better at the way certain skills work in PvP vrs PvE.

I don't think I like the sound of that.. I'm no expert on tank builds.. but it seems this would free up block cost reduction from jewellery in favour of flat-out spell power.. so instead of a graudually building spell-power, you'll have it constantly.

IcyDeadPeople · February 2017

silky_soft wrote: »

Nerf block cost reduction

This happened in a previous patch. Heavy armor passives do not provide block cost reduction anymore.

Derra · February 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Nerf block cost reduction

This happened in a previous patch. Heavy armor passives do not provide block cost reduction anymore.

Well and then they reintroduced sturdy...

makeumrage · February 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

I believe heavy should have ALL spell damage taken away from its passives. Leave heavy sets as is though. Maybe change wraith passive to decrease block costs on damage instead of spell/weapok damage

Also, I think itd be nice to adjust Light armor passives. Maybe increase duration of shields if in 5 pieces light. Idk. Not a theory crafter.

Although heavy armor isnt the issue IMO itself. More so the bursty one shot capabilities in PvP of certain builds. ESO needs to do better at the way certain skills work in PvP vrs PvE.

I don't think I like the sound of that.. I'm no expert on tank builds.. but it seems this would free up block cost reduction from jewellery in favour of flat-out spell power.. so instead of a graudually building spell-power, you'll have it constantly.

Tis true for tanks. I was speaking of DPS builds though, most already not running any block reduction at all. Just wearing heavy armor to last longer while fully specced for damage. Thats the understanding though we all seem to miss sometimes... looking at the bigger picture and how something affects EVERYTHING not just one thing or one build or one class or one race.

EldritchPenguin · February 2017

Sharee wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

For simplicity's sake, let's say that without any armor or enchantments, and no CPs assigned whatsoever, a character has 500 Magicka and Stamina recovery.
In 5 Heavy, Constitution will grant an additional 493 of both, increasing Magicka and Stamina recovery to 993.

In 5 Light, Recovery will grant an additional 100 Magicka recovery, increasing Magicka recovery to 600, while Stamina recovery remains at 500.

In 7 Medium, Wind Walker will grant an additional 140 Stamina recovery, increasing Stamina recovery to 640, while Magicka recovery remains at 500.

The advantage of 5 light armor is that every piece of additional recovery your build has is 20% more effective than it would be in heavy armor.

You present an example where there is NONE additional recovery whatsoever - and you wonder why heavy armor seems better?
C'mon. That's like evaluating the recovery of heavy armor in a situation where you do not get hit at all.

I thought I'd acknowledged pretty well that Light and Medium have stronger potential for single-resource regeneration than Heavy. I even showed mathematically exactly where that point was, and it's not actually very high. It's maybe 1 recovery glyph, and possibly a set bonus, but I don't think even the set bonus is necessary to beat out Heavy for single-resources sustain.

With that being said, however, I think it's important in comparisons like this to show in exactly what situations one outperforms the other, and that's what I was trying to accomplish. Heavy is generally better sustain for builds that's absolutely abandon all sustain and go for raw offense and/or durability, while Light and Medium are far superior for builds that want to get the most out of their primary resource's recovery. I realize my post may not have been as well worded as it could have been, but I thought I'd at least made that part pretty clear.

idk · February 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

Heavy Armor should be for Tanking, although stop nerfing the bugger for us PVE just because of PvPer.

Does a PVE tank need the damage though?

In PVP currently there is not much tradeoff if you choose heavy armor. You can have very high damage output, reasonable sustain and still get close to resistance cap.

@IcyDeadPeople the damage passive is for those who want to dps in HA. I think OP is missing something besides the obvious that the HA passives are not the issue.

When confronting an issue one needs to determine what the foundation of the problem is and this thread is not doing that. HA itself is not the issue.

This, I half agree with, half disagree with.

I agree with it because people -do- want to play tanky DPS, something this game absolutely hates on a fundemental level. It should be an option, considering it's an archetype at least one class is supposed to meet.

I disagree with it because the problem right now, is we lost a key passive for tanks for the -sake- of this damage that isn't giving the people who wanna DPS in HA, and isn't helping us. With the noose geting tightened around tanks necks, I think it's time for a HA rework. A offensive, and defensive passive set.

@Doctordarkspawn

HA is a defenseive armor type and as such predominantly HA wearers should not get much dps benefit from the armor passives but get heightened survivability instead. The passives do not need to be enhanced further in any way.

Just like Zos nerfed magika shields because they wanted players to make a choice. Gearing in HA is not much different. The more a player gears towards survival the less damage they should be able to do.

Joy_Division · February 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

With 5 heavy(1med/1light), and a sharpened staff, my character has 16.5k resists and 5160 pen.

With 5 light(1m/1hvy) 13k/11k spell/phys resists and 10k pen - but if I make the staff defending, its 18/16k resists and 4880 pen.

Not a lot of difference really. Basically the tankyness of heavy is a fallacy unless you also combine it with other stuff to add to the tankyness (defending traits, major/minor resolve etc.) So basically, unless you're going full tank, the defensiveness of heavy isn't all that.

It's not just the resists that makes heavy tankier, it's the extra health, extra healing received, and, what I find most important, the stamina return from constitution. As a heavy armor build I don't run out of stamina on a magicka character.

Cherryblossom · February 2017

Heavy Armour is in use in PVP because there is huge burst possible due to Proc set, when it's possible to do one attack that then instigates 3 procs, you need to have high mitigation or shields to survive.
Heavy armour is a response to this not because it's better than light and Medium. Heavy Armour works fine, what doesn't work is PROC sets.
What is actually required in my opinion is that Proc's can only work one at a time based on GCD, this would reduce the instant death if your not wearing heavy, it would encourage more back into the staple medium and light just so they could improve their burst.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

That post about heavy giving more resource recovery than light or medium is missing a very important point: heavy requires you to constantly be getting hit for that recovery, while light and medium do not. Constantly getting hit is going to necessitate blocking more often, which halts your standard recovery and leaves you with only what constitution provides.

Biro123 · February 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

With 5 heavy(1med/1light), and a sharpened staff, my character has 16.5k resists and 5160 pen.

With 5 light(1m/1hvy) 13k/11k spell/phys resists and 10k pen - but if I make the staff defending, its 18/16k resists and 4880 pen.

Not a lot of difference really. Basically the tankyness of heavy is a fallacy unless you also combine it with other stuff to add to the tankyness (defending traits, major/minor resolve etc.) So basically, unless you're going full tank, the defensiveness of heavy isn't all that.

It's not just the resists that makes heavy tankier, it's the extra health, extra healing received, and, what I find most important, the stamina return from constitution. As a heavy armor build I don't run out of stamina on a magicka character.

I agree.. I was just refuting the earlier views that people think its all down to resists that does it.

Imho, each armour type is aimed at providing a different way of defending. I don't buy the idea that heavy armour should be defensive only.. Look at a medieval knight.. heavy armour, horse charging at you with a bloody big lance.. That's about as offensive as it gets. The heavy armour effectively lets them focus on being offensive while letting the armour do defending (ofc ironically, ESO has the armour doing the attacking and active blocks/dodges/shielding doing the defending - lol)

But I digress.. I see the intention of them as:

Light armour - aids with magick - players rely on magickal defences
Medium - Avoidance based defence (dodging/stealth/mobility)
Heavy - Mitigation-based defence (hits are a bit lighter, you recover from them better with more health/healing and resource recov allows for blocking

As long as they are relatively even in defence, they should be relatively even in offence.. However, I think what skews the balance is high-cp's and certain class-based resource recov. mechanics that can allow for unlimited blocking and/or fantastic sustain without having to sacrifice other stats for it.
Oh, and shuffle.. I don't think its right that heavy-armour wearers can get a large part of the avoidance that medium provides..

I tried a heavy armour DD-type build on Azura - I've tried a few. It doesn't work - which is why I point the balance issues towards CP.

jaye63 · February 2017

Heavy armor is...duh... heavy armor.

t3hdubzy · February 2017

There are certain builds that just enable a player to tank 10 to 20 players and also be able to kill players at the same time. I typically leave those players alone. IMO those builds are overpowered, and Ive spent countless efforts trying to counter them. They are ungankable, unable to be stunned, feared, trapped, etc. They also can sometimes kill me with 1 move which makes me feel like a newb again and i need to l2p.

IcyDeadPeople · February 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

But I digress.. I see the intention of them as:
Light armour - aids with magick - players rely on magickal defences

Medium - Avoidance based defence (dodging/stealth/mobility)

Heavy - Mitigation-based defence (hits are a bit lighter, you recover from them better with more health/healing and resource recov allows for blocking

As long as they are relatively even in defence, they should be relatively even in offence.. However, I think what skews the balance is high-cp's and certain class-based resource recov. mechanics that can allow for unlimited blocking and/or fantastic sustain without having to sacrifice other stats for it.

I tried a heavy armour DD-type build on Azura - I've tried a few. It doesn't work - which is why I point the balance issues towards CP.

Light armor only provides strong damage mitigation if you have access to the large sorc class shields which scale based on your offensive stat pool, otherwise you are rather squishy in light armor even with 7/7 impen.

Medium armor provides some extra mitigation by reduced dodge roll cost; however, frequently dodge rolling and trying to land hits here or there is a somewhat challenging play style.

In contrast, benefiting from heavy armor mitigation doesn't require any special play style. It is also not hard to reach 35-40k offensive stat and 3k+ weapon damage or spell damage in heavy armor, plus decent sustain, while being rather tough to kill.

If you spec into excellent damage mitigation and sustain, I can understand. However, it seems there should be a bit more of a tradeoff in terms of damage output with this kind of build. At least not all three.

I gather the intent of the constitution and wrath passives was to provide a boost when you are being hit frequently by other players. However, unless you are actively trying to disengage and hide, streak or cloak away, everyone gets hit frequently in almost every small or large battle.

Maybe light and medium need slightly stronger damage or penetration passives. Maybe shuffle could be adjusted to require 5 medium, as some have suggested.

All I know is so many are using heavy armor these days that it is beginning to remind me of launch when everybody was in light armor robes.

Durham · February 2017

I don't understand the big deal with heavy... there is so much armor pen and debuffs... I have no issue with heavy armor players ....

Durham · February 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

All three should be capable of damage, just defending in different ways

With 7/7 medium it's not currently possible to be both extremely tanky and deal high damage output. I have a lot of respect for the skilled players out there running well fitted and jumping in and out of melee - this is currently much more challenging play style than heavy armor.

With 7/7 light it's possible to be extremely tanky and deal high damage only if you have access to sorc shields that scale on your offensive stat pool.

With a lack of tradeoffs, planning and testing new build ideas becomes less interesting. The fun part of planning build ideas is looking at all the options available and making difficult choices. If you make a choice to spec into being extremely tanky, it's a more interesting choice when you are sacrificing in other areas.

Healing ward also... for light... Also high magick resists...

Medium is built avoid damage not take ....

Heavy great for taking damage but with all the spell pen and debuffs in the game even they go down very quick in pvp... heavy works best with sword and shield how ever a good player can make other builds work... people think the armor is what makes people hard to kill... no its the player.......

Orchish · February 2017

Nerfing heavy will just likely see it become useless again at release. I would rather ZoS look at making medium and light armour more attractive to players.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

For the last time, pvp is not the only part of this game, nor is it the end all be all for the majority of players.

Heavy is hardly ever used in pve by anyone except tanks, and I've seen some shield stacking sorc survive things in light armor that no heavy tank could.

You all keep stressing that medium and light never see any use, but they are what 90% of pve players are wearing, so please make that destinction between pve and pvp play.

Balancing everything around the pvp part of the game is exactly what's ruining the other half of it.

thankyourat · February 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

For the last time, pvp is not the only part of this game, nor is it the end all be all for the majority of players.

Heavy is hardly ever used in pve by anyone except tanks, and I've seen some shield stacking sorc survive things in light armor that no heavy tank could.

You all keep stressing that medium and light never see any use, but they are what 90% of pve players are wearing, so please make that destinction between pve and pvp play.

Balancing everything around the pvp part of the game is exactly what's ruining the other half of it.

How would decreasing heavy armors damage potential be a nerf to PvE?

EDIT: they should balance the game around PvP. And then they could just adjust the health of the NPC's in PvE accordingly

leepalmer95 · February 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

For the last time, pvp is not the only part of this game, nor is it the end all be all for the majority of players.

Heavy is hardly ever used in pve by anyone except tanks, and I've seen some shield stacking sorc survive things in light armor that no heavy tank could.

You all keep stressing that medium and light never see any use, but they are what 90% of pve players are wearing, so please make that destinction between pve and pvp play.

Balancing everything around the pvp part of the game is exactly what's ruining the other half of it.

The majority of last patch changes was because of pve.

Sneaky-Snurr · February 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

When confronting an issue one needs to determine what the foundation of the problem is and this thread is not doing that. HA itself is not the issue.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
This ^ right here is the actual scope of the situation with Armour Types. HA is and was never the problem in the first place.

Medium and light armour are the ones that need retuning to reflect their specialisation as they are under-optimised. HA is very balanced as it is before and even after the nerf (and personally I think the nerf was unnecessary to start with).

Preach it, man!

goatlyonesub17_ESO · February 2017

I use medium armor mostly for sneakiness. That's why I have two Khajiits and a Bosmer, too, 'cause they are more sneaky than other races. Khajiit like to sneak... They stack Nightshade/Night Terror with Night Mother's Embrace, all in medium, and that makes them stealthy enough to pass between two goblins guarding the cave entrance. Detection radius is about 1 meter when you're right in front of the NPC looking for you.

Derra · February 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

But I digress.. I see the intention of them as:
Light armour - aids with magick - players rely on magickal defences

Medium - Avoidance based defence (dodging/stealth/mobility)

Heavy - Mitigation-based defence (hits are a bit lighter, you recover from them better with more health/healing and resource recov allows for blocking

As long as they are relatively even in defence, they should be relatively even in offence.. However, I think what skews the balance is high-cp's and certain class-based resource recov. mechanics that can allow for unlimited blocking and/or fantastic sustain without having to sacrifice other stats for it.

I tried a heavy armour DD-type build on Azura - I've tried a few. It doesn't work - which is why I point the balance issues towards CP.

Light armor only provides strong damage mitigation if you have access to the large sorc class shields which scale based on your offensive stat pool, otherwise you are rather squishy in light armor even with 7/7 impen.

Medium armor provides some extra mitigation by reduced dodge roll cost; however, frequently dodge rolling and trying to land hits here or there is a somewhat challenging play style.

In contrast, benefiting from heavy armor mitigation doesn't require any special play style. It is also not hard to reach 35-40k offensive stat and 3k+ weapon damage or spell damage in heavy armor, plus decent sustain, while being rather tough to kill.

If you spec into excellent damage mitigation and sustain, I can understand. However, it seems there should be a bit more of a tradeoff in terms of damage output with this kind of build. At least not all three.

I gather the intent of the constitution and wrath passives was to provide a boost when you are being hit frequently by other players. However, unless you are actively trying to disengage and hide, streak or cloak away, everyone gets hit frequently in almost every small or large battle.

Maybe light and medium need slightly stronger damage or penetration passives. Maybe shuffle could be adjusted to require 5 medium, as some have suggested.

All I know is so many are using heavy armor these days that it is beginning to remind me of launch when everybody was in light armor robes.

I did not write what you quoted there. That´s from @Biro123

Light armor provides "mitigation" with shields for NBs aswell. A 7/7 or 6/7 light armor NB will most likely see higher shield values than a sorc for dampen magica - which coupled with NBs selfhealing capabilities results in light armor nightblades working pretty well.

The main problem for any light armor user not a sorc is - they can´t combat root/snares. They have a mobility problem to make the armor work for them. Even NBs do once they get caught.

Either light needs to provide better mobility options or it needs to provide better utilizeable defense options in general - with sorc shields (or stacking if you´d ask me) getting a nerf. I don´t agree with the statement of light armor being range combat oriented - that would equal saying DKs should not wear light armor period.

Biro123 · February 2017

Derra wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

But I digress.. I see the intention of them as:
Light armour - aids with magick - players rely on magickal defences

Medium - Avoidance based defence (dodging/stealth/mobility)

Heavy - Mitigation-based defence (hits are a bit lighter, you recover from them better with more health/healing and resource recov allows for blocking

As long as they are relatively even in defence, they should be relatively even in offence.. However, I think what skews the balance is high-cp's and certain class-based resource recov. mechanics that can allow for unlimited blocking and/or fantastic sustain without having to sacrifice other stats for it.

I tried a heavy armour DD-type build on Azura - I've tried a few. It doesn't work - which is why I point the balance issues towards CP.

Light armor only provides strong damage mitigation if you have access to the large sorc class shields which scale based on your offensive stat pool, otherwise you are rather squishy in light armor even with 7/7 impen.

Medium armor provides some extra mitigation by reduced dodge roll cost; however, frequently dodge rolling and trying to land hits here or there is a somewhat challenging play style.

In contrast, benefiting from heavy armor mitigation doesn't require any special play style. It is also not hard to reach 35-40k offensive stat and 3k+ weapon damage or spell damage in heavy armor, plus decent sustain, while being rather tough to kill.

If you spec into excellent damage mitigation and sustain, I can understand. However, it seems there should be a bit more of a tradeoff in terms of damage output with this kind of build. At least not all three.

I gather the intent of the constitution and wrath passives was to provide a boost when you are being hit frequently by other players. However, unless you are actively trying to disengage and hide, streak or cloak away, everyone gets hit frequently in almost every small or large battle.

Maybe light and medium need slightly stronger damage or penetration passives. Maybe shuffle could be adjusted to require 5 medium, as some have suggested.

All I know is so many are using heavy armor these days that it is beginning to remind me of launch when everybody was in light armor robes.

I did not write what you quoted there. That´s from @Biro123

Light armor provides "mitigation" with shields for NBs aswell. A 7/7 or 6/7 light armor NB will most likely see higher shield values than a sorc for dampen magica - which coupled with NBs selfhealing capabilities results in light armor nightblades working pretty well.

The main problem for any light armor user not a sorc is - they can´t combat root/snares. They have a mobility problem to make the armor work for them. Even NBs do once they get caught.

Either light needs to provide better mobility options or it needs to provide better utilizeable defense options in general - with sorc shields (or stacking if you´d ask me) getting a nerf. I don´t agree with the statement of light armor being range combat oriented - that would equal saying DKs should not wear light armor period.

Yeah, seen a few quotes lately with the wrong person mentioned..

This not from the magblade perspective - but from the perspective of playing against them.. as much as cloak gets complained about - it does cause a lot of attacks to miss. As someone attacking a magblade, it *feels* like a combination of cloak and dampen magicka (similar to stacked shields for a sorc on the defensive) can do a good job of avoiding a lot of damage and mitigating what's left.
Arguably as number of attackers scale up, cloak could potentially avoid a lot more damage than hardened could absorb. (even avoiding a single empowered frag is almost enough to break even).