@Reorx_Holybeard Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate your input here. The way I have been dealing with sets that have a proc chance, like BSW is to take common uptime values, either from my own dps testing with Combat Metrics or from forum users, and divide the numbers accordingly. So if the Effective Spell Power with BSW active is 11000 and without is 9800, and a best case uptime is around 66%, then the average would be about 10600.

I suppose you could add a spot on the Sets page that could let people manually adjust the % uptime of the set's buff. That way you don't have to do each calculation youself, but leave it to the user to determine their own average uptime.

Also, not sure if you're aware, but the Necropotence set actually adds about 1000 more magicka than it's supposed to on the UESP Build Editor. I did some checking last night, and essentially comparing magicka numbers on live vs the UESP build editor using identical builds, the 1000 magicka difference added up to about 133 lower Effective Spell Damage on live.

If we could determine, for example, what the average dps increase is per 1000 magicka, then we could take the average dps of Ilambris and convert it into phantom magicka for the purpose of the calculation.

So, hypothetically say Liquid Lightning has a 3500 tooltip with 50000 magicka and a 3450 tooltip with 49000 magicka. Assuming 50% crit, 50% magnitude, and 100% uptime on a fully debuffed target, this equates to 4375 average dps in the first instance and 4312 average dps in the second instance. That's a 63 average dps difference. So now if we take Ilambris and say it has 2k dps on average, it would be 31.7 times stronger than 1000 magicka's effect (2000/63=31.7). So we'd be looking at 31700 phantom magicka. Divide that by 10.5 and you get 3019 added to the Effective Spell Damage number. This would need to be done with real values and probably compared against several skills, but unless I'm really off base, this would seem to lead to at least a roughly appropriate number to attribute to the monster set.

@Reorx_Holybeard Glad to help! I do know the issue is that the Necro set is giving 5k magicka in the 5 set bonus instead of 4k. I worked for a long time to figure out where the inconsistency was, and I'm sure it's in the 5 piece bonus. This bug has been in place since at least One Tamriel when I started doing a lot of Necropotence theorycrafting.

The main problem with calculating an effective spellpower for proc sets is that they only scale with a few buffs/debuffs (engulfing flames, minor vulnerability). They basically provide a fixed DPS value independant of your effective spellpower. The relative performance of the proc set therefore depends on how high your base DPS level provided by your effective spellpower is.
So basically it only makes sense to calculate a DPS level based on your effective spellpower and then add the proc set DPS as a constant. In the end you dont compare your effective spellpower, but the

Another inacurracy when only looking at the effective spellpower is the different scaling for light and heavy attacks (approx magicka + 40*spell dmg), so depending on the ability dmg to weave dmg ratio of your rotation you will get another slight error. In addition you might have pets in your rotation that scale with everything but spell dmg.

You could take a look at the approach I took here in the spreadsheet: Link

One problem you will find with a BSW + Neco Setup is loosing the undaunted passives or MSA staffs so I can only imagine that it might work with a pet build.

dpencil wrote: »

@GilGalad Very cool spreadsheet. Thanks for sharing it. So I gather from it that at peak performance, BSW+Ilambris is about 5k dps stronger than BSW+Necro. Do you have UESP build pages of both of these with the associated skills used and such? And based on your Kena comparison, would that mean that Kena would outperform Ilambris because the dps level is so high? Also, it seems like there might be issues such as sustain with Kena or limited bar space with Necro that aren't really represented, that might adversely effect performance.

I agree with you that proc sets really do act like flat dps additions, but just working within UESP I really don't have any way to guage the potential dps of a build, like a way to convert Effective Spell Damage into a DPS number. Like you said, the skill choices and efficiency of play will have a big effect on that. I also don't understand the math of the spreadsheet enough to be able to do that sort of thing myself.

The main comparison I was trying to draw was between the following setups:
Necro+Ilambris+Willpower
Necro+BSW
Necro+Destruction Mastery

Yes, I am a pet build junkie, so Necro is my jam.

I don't have any Moondancer jewelry or weps, so it's not practical for me to calculate that right now.

I dont have have UESP build pages - never used that. ^^
The DPS levels are not calculated depending on actual skill coefficients. They are basically calculated based on the effective spell dmg, effective weave dmg times a prefactor. You can determine the prefactor by testing the setup ingame and adjusting it such that the DPS level matches the testing results.
A more precise way is Asayres approach of simulating a combat like he did in this thread: Link.

He did not make simulations with necro, but you see that 3 moondancer is not much worse than 3 willpower if combined with 1 or 2 MSA staffs. The problem is that I dont know how pets scale with magicka compared to abilities. I think 2 Ilambris are definately the way to go, since you don't want to loose the undaunted passives or the MSA staff (2 Kena might outperform 2 Ilambris slightly at a high DPS level but with the changes to elemental drain its not worth to loose so much sustain for a maximum of 1% more dmg). Having BSW only on one bar might work if you set up your bars with a backbar (deadric pray, unstable wall, liquid on backbar, toggles) and a BSW frontbar (execute, frags, force pulse, toggles). Then you could go with Necro + BSW + 1 Ilambris, still having 2/3 undaunted.
But my feeling is that 5 BSW + Willpower + 2 Ilambris will be the best in your case (assuming you have an Inferno MSA).

So with a precise MSA staff the setup with a BSW frontbar could work well if you have a BSW sharpened lightning or inferno staff, since you want to minimize the time on your precise bar. Fire wall is usually enough to get a decent uptime on BSW especially if there are adds around. With the BSW lightning you could keep doing your heavy attacks on your frontbar. The nice thing about having BSW only on one bar is that you keep the bonus once its procced even on the backbar.