Streamers @ Zos - They are veterans
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kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just don't like people with personal agendas speaking for the rest of us, I never agree with about 90% of their views on the game and what they are constantly trying to turn the game into.5 -
flubber77✭✭✭✭Well, they do get inv cause of streaming, wait, could it have something to do with where they live? cause my self also played since beta and the longest break was 14days, once a year
but still i dont get an invite? but again i dont live in us..
Still a grudge, only to see false what u want and nothing less.0 -
Shimmer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I honestly feel bad for them because of the timing. They are doing this at the release of homestead! Poor guys didn't even get a house !
But honestly guys stop with all the hate! This is exciting! Can't we just be happy for them?Edited by Shimmer on February 9, 2017 3:23AM1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Then by that logic, there's still nothing special that separates the streamers from anyone else who has been playing this game from Beta, or video games for any lengthy period of time at all. That still makes us all veterans, and makes their opinions STILL no better than anyone else.Supersnake_Lx wrote: »@Uriel_Nocturne
First of all, he did not make the thread, I did. Second:
vet·er·an
ˈvedərən,ˈvetrən/
noun
a person who has had long experience in a particular field.
So your own snippy reply defeats the very premise of your thread, and supports my counter argument that ZOS is very much taking the wrong path by relying so heavily on these arrogant, niche, streamers while ignoring the majority of their player base.
Fengrush is a man of the people and theingest reigning player since alpha. How dare you call yourself a veteran here on the eso forums.5 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be honest we don't have much of a choice.
I mean, on one hand we have Wrobel who doesn't understand how this game works and makes random patches depending on his mood. On the other hand we have streaming jerk offs like...well, pretty much everyone is an ass.
Deltia is a nice guy though, but he won't fix all that *** alone.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭I'll just say, if it wasn't clear enough in my original thread, I have no problem with streamers.
I have a problem with ZOS having a long and consistent history of ignoring player feedback while they do things like this.
And for a company that runs Superbowl Ads and has $1 million dollar giveaways, I don't think "They need the marketing" is a compelling argument for giving these streamers so much influence over game direction.4 -
Dark_Aether✭✭✭✭I am simply amazed at people's ability to find and focus on the negative instead of appreciating the fact that for once, Zos is getting actual players involved in the development process.2 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
Except they're not normal players. Not at all.Supersnake_Lx wrote: »I am simply amazed at people's ability to find and focus on the negative instead of appreciating the fact that for once, Zos is getting actual players involved in the development process.
That's like saying you're glad Chevrolet got some "drivers" involved in the design process and it turns out they were all Nascar drivers and then you wonder why your new Impala has no radio in the dash, no cruise control and a roll cage.
They are great at what they do. But what they do (for the most part) is experience a dramatically different game experience than most of us.3 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Supersnake_Lx wrote: »I am simply amazed at people's ability to find and focus on the negative instead of appreciating the fact that for once, Zos is getting actual players involved in the development process.
There is a lot of pages of feedback given by actual players in PTS thread.
ZOS ignored like...90% of it.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Isellskooma wrote: »wish that actually skillful players were invited and not the cheesing streamers who see animation cancelling, exploiting and overall min-maxing as primary combat focus
Dude they don't exploit, it's so easy to tell if they do exploit. I still can't people still think animation canceling is exploiting.
"Macro slice" . soak that one in and remember it was a streamer who made this a thing till Zeni fixed it.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
So let me read you clearly: Without knowing or reading any ideas I might have, you've already judged my opinion on ESO as absolute dog *** compared to those arrogant streamers, who by and large, want the game micromanaged and changed to benefit the smallest niche demographic of people playing the game?Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I hear you, OP.Supersnake_Lx wrote: »Why is everyone so focused on the players who have been invited to playtest at Zos headquarters being streamers/youtubers, but completely dismiss the fact that those are players who have been around since beta?
You might argue that some are PVP bias and might push Zos to balance the game towards that more and you are right. But remember, Battleground is coming, a more competitive gameplay than what we currently have.Those are the people who have stuck around through the good and the (sometimes really) bad. And others like Deltia have played through all aspects of the game. Those guys have created contents to help both newcomers and veterans alike and have given feedback when they were being ignored. Now that Zos is listening and asking them for feedback you have a problem?
I'm a verteran who served 20 years in the Marine Corps, eight of those on Force Recon. Those were some of the greatest years of my life, and...
Oh, wait... I thought we were talking about REAL veterans...
There's literally THOUSANDS of players who've been around since the Beta, why should some arrogant Streamers get to have more of a voice than the rest of us? I've watched some of those narcissistic *** videos, and they cater exclusively to the smallest of niche players in this game. Not to mention; it's been proven that Streamers add ZERO revenue to the games they cover. Most every person that watches them live-stream their arrogance, already owns the game that the streamer is playing, so they aren't actually convincing anyone to go out and purchase a game to help the associated developer/publisher, because the viewer ALREADY owns that very game.
Their opinions are highly polarized towards "fixing" the game to cater to the smallest minority of players in the game, and they definitely DO NOT speak for the majority of the player-base.
So why the hell shouldn't I be upset that they're getting more access to ZOS than the MAJORITY of the players, and that their severely bent opinions are convincing ZOS to change the game to their desires at the expense of the rest of us?
Twitch and "professional" streamers are a cancer on every game they focus on, and especially with MMO's.
Fact: Twitch and those arrogant ass-hat streamers could disappear like a fart in the wind tomorrow, and none of the games they cover would notice a bit of difference in their profit margins. Everything would go on, untouched, and the games would be better for it without their whining, incoherent screaming polluting the internet and poisoning the development path of the games they cover.
You know why they value the words of those players much more than yours? It's because they have a name, they are famous, of course they are gonna teke they're words much more seriously, you have an enormous amount of evidence that points that they are good players, what do you have? Nothing, nothing at all. Make a name for yourself in the game or very little will happen.
Oh, and by the way, aren't you arrogant yourself to make statements like games would be better if we had no people like that, *** off with that mentality, you judge people but never judged yourself.
You aren't making your case any better. Those aren't exactly ringing endorsements... lmaoRiga_Mortis wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I hear you, OP.Supersnake_Lx wrote: »Why is everyone so focused on the players who have been invited to playtest at Zos headquarters being streamers/youtubers, but completely dismiss the fact that those are players who have been around since beta?
You might argue that some are PVP bias and might push Zos to balance the game towards that more and you are right. But remember, Battleground is coming, a more competitive gameplay than what we currently have.Those are the people who have stuck around through the good and the (sometimes really) bad. And others like Deltia have played through all aspects of the game. Those guys have created contents to help both newcomers and veterans alike and have given feedback when they were being ignored. Now that Zos is listening and asking them for feedback you have a problem?
I'm a verteran who served 20 years in the Marine Corps, eight of those on Force Recon. Those were some of the greatest years of my life, and...
Oh, wait... I thought we were talking about REAL veterans...
There's literally THOUSANDS of players who've been around since the Beta, why should some arrogant Streamers get to have more of a voice than the rest of us? I've watched some of those narcissistic *** videos, and they cater exclusively to the smallest of niche players in this game. Not to mention; it's been proven that Streamers add ZERO revenue to the games they cover. Most every person that watches them live-stream their arrogance, already owns the game that the streamer is playing, so they aren't actually convincing anyone to go out and purchase a game to help the associated developer/publisher, because the viewer ALREADY owns that very game.
Their opinions are highly polarized towards "fixing" the game to cater to the smallest minority of players in the game, and they definitely DO NOT speak for the majority of the player-base.
So why the hell shouldn't I be upset that they're getting more access to ZOS than the MAJORITY of the players, and that their severely bent opinions are convincing ZOS to change the game to their desires at the expense of the rest of us?
Twitch and "professional" streamers are a cancer on every game they focus on, and especially with MMO's.
Fact: Twitch and those arrogant ass-hat streamers could disappear like a fart in the wind tomorrow, and none of the games they cover would notice a bit of difference in their profit margins. Everything would go on, untouched, and the games would be better for it without their whining, incoherent screaming polluting the internet and poisoning the development path of the games they cover.
You know why they value the words of those players much more than yours? It's because they have a name, they are famous, of course they are gonna teke they're words much more seriously, you have an enormous amount of evidence that points that they are good players, what do you have? Nothing, nothing at all. Make a name for yourself in the game or very little will happen.
Do you honestly think the guys that were invited are actually famous?
Well they are much more famous than you, in this game.
But you keep puckering your butthole in defense of those screaming sycophants. I'll just keep playing the game, and hope ZOS doesn't screw it up to badly while making changes based off of niche demands from even smaller niche Twitch (not-so-famous-at-all) streamers.
I don't know about each streamer, if i find one that is being a complete idiot that i will judge him as such, but all the streamer i know are good players, and i would much rather put the game in they're hands compared to yours.
Because that's exactly what you're saying.
The amount of incoherent fallacy you're spewing right now is awe inspiring in all the worst ways.
Not all your opinions, just this one. My position on this argument is this, i would much rather put the game in the hands of people who actually know how this game works than people who don't know anything about it.
I agree completely. How many of you complaining about this have a dry erase board next to your computer with breakdowns of the classes and theory crafting of all classes? How many have 10k+ hours in the game? How many can tell the stats of all the skills and how they work with other skills off the top of your head? How many have actually played and tested literally dozens upon dozens of builds?
I too have played since beta. I have logged in over 5800+ hours in game. I have a Twitch channel even though I have not streamed in a long while. And I don't know half of what Feng or Deltia or Sypher know about this game. I for one think this is great that Zos is hosting this.
Yes, there are a lot of REALLY great players out there, but how many make it their job, their life?
I for one am not embarrassed to say they know more than me about ESO, and I'm not jealous I wasn't invited, and I'm glad Zos chose the people they did.
"Now, if I could just get into the Council of Nirn, that is a different story...Lol"Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
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#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)2 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭They aren't just experienced players, the streamers are people who make their money by posting videos of themselves killing large numbers of players either solo or with a very small group.
Obviously they are going to promote mechanics and playstyle that will allow this to continue, and diminish the effects of superior numbers and firepower.
Good. You should win or lose based on your mastery of game mechanics, not based on how many friends you bring. PVP shouldn't be a popularity contest.
Given that one of the things coming in Morrowind is pvp battlegrounds, it sounds like they picked the right people after all.
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JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think that at this point the discussion seems to be more focused on: zenimax doesn't listen to feedback that players give.
But let's be real here, all opinions have value, but some have more then others, let's say that i wanted to make a business, would i ask the multi millionaire on how to create a successful business, or would i ask the first person around? Yea the average joe might have some good points, but not as many as a multi millionaire, now take this argument, and apply it to this specific case: same exact thing.
I'm not saying that opinions are not valid, but some are much more then others, ecspecially if they are backed by statistics, and evidence.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Streamers are very knowledgeable. I am fine with Zos listening to them as long as balance is not one of the topics up for discussion.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
My DD214 serves as all the proof I'll ever need. You trying to be clever on the interwebz is adorable though.grannas211 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I hear you, OP.Supersnake_Lx wrote: »Why is everyone so focused on the players who have been invited to playtest at Zos headquarters being streamers/youtubers, but completely dismiss the fact that those are players who have been around since beta?
You might argue that some are PVP bias and might push Zos to balance the game towards that more and you are right. But remember, Battleground is coming, a more competitive gameplay than what we currently have.Those are the people who have stuck around through the good and the (sometimes really) bad. And others like Deltia have played through all aspects of the game. Those guys have created contents to help both newcomers and veterans alike and have given feedback when they were being ignored. Now that Zos is listening and asking them for feedback you have a problem?
I'm a verteran who served 20 years in the Marine Corps, eight of those on Force Recon. Those were some of the greatest years of my life, and...
uh huh..
Because you put in the thread title, as if they're somehow the survivor of a digital war that no one else knew anything about... Your flippant use of the word veteran only makes you look more petulant in your defense of streamers who couldn't give two *** about you or your defense of them.One last thing, why did you make this statement?
I'm a verteran who served 20 years in the Marine Corps, eight of those on Force Recon. Those were some of the greatest years of my life, and...
Oh, wait... I thought we were talking about REAL veterans...
It's completely irrelevant in this discussion, admit it, you made this statement just to show off, turn your ego down a notch dude, you are not a special person, i am not a special person no one is, there are millions of veterans like you.
Easy there killer. Tons of SF guys usually go out and advertise on video games forums. Even if true, completely a not so subtle brag post. Honestly you were probably Supply.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Isellskooma wrote: »wish that actually skillful players were invited and not the cheesing streamers who see animation cancelling, exploiting and overall min-maxing as primary combat focus
Dude they don't exploit, it's so easy to tell if they do exploit. I still can't people still think animation canceling is exploiting.
"Macro slice" . soak that one in and remember it was a streamer who made this a thing till Zeni fixed it.
The macro slice is completely uncontrollable, so it can't be considered an exploit, it's an error you can't exploit it because you have no control over it, it just happens.1 -
Riga_Mortis✭✭✭✭✭Twitch in geI think that at this point the discussion seems to be more focused on: zenimax doesn't listen to feedback that players give.
But let's be real here, all opinions have value, but some have more then others, let's say that i wanted to make a business, would i ask the multi millionaire on how to create a successful business, or would i ask the first person around? Yea the average joe might have some good points, but not as many as a multi millionaire, now take this argument, and apply it to this specific case: same exact thing.
I'm not saying that opinions are not valid, but some are much more then others, ecspecially if they are backed by statistics, and evidence.
When say, car companies, want to do market research do they ask 100 pro drivers or do they ask 100 average drivers.
This isnt about starting a new business, its about maintaining the business youve already built. The average players are the ones keeping ESO in business.
Edited by Riga_Mortis on February 9, 2017 4:12PMXBOX 1X
GT - TAGNUTZ1 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
No... you're only "a man of the people" for those who tune in on your channel. Which still represents only the smallest, niche demographic of players.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Then by that logic, there's still nothing special that separates the streamers from anyone else who has been playing this game from Beta, or video games for any lengthy period of time at all. That still makes us all veterans, and makes their opinions STILL no better than anyone else.Supersnake_Lx wrote: »@Uriel_Nocturne
First of all, he did not make the thread, I did. Second:
vet·er·an
ˈvedərən,ˈvetrən/
noun
a person who has had long experience in a particular field.
So your own snippy reply defeats the very premise of your thread, and supports my counter argument that ZOS is very much taking the wrong path by relying so heavily on these arrogant, niche, streamers while ignoring the majority of their player base.
Fengrush is a man of the people and theingest reigning player since alpha. How dare you call yourself a veteran here on the eso forums.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They aren't just experienced players, the streamers are people who make their money by posting videos of themselves killing large numbers of players either solo or with a very small group.
Obviously they are going to promote mechanics and playstyle that will allow this to continue, and diminish the effects of superior numbers and firepower.
Good. You should win or lose based on your mastery of game mechanics, not based on how many friends you bring. PVP shouldn't be a popularity contest.
Given that one of the things coming in Morrowind is pvp battlegrounds, it sounds like they picked the right people after all.
Have you listened to what Fengrush rants about? I like the guy. He is a truly great player and theorycrafter, but I strongly disagree with him.
* Healing is too much in PVP, that needs to be reduced. That would gut every magicka Templar out there and make their one defense absolutely pointless.
* Nightblades should lose the stun on stealth attacks. It makes the LORD mad when he gets ganked, or stunned in the middle of battle. But that's what nightblades DO, what else is their point?
* Magicka characters are too strong, we should just be instantly macro-sliced.
* Everything should be blockable. So block is a one button counter for everything. Might as well scotch tape your right mouse button down.
That's your 'skillful' gameplay right there. Roll a stam sorc, wear heavy armor, and destroy everyone who isn't, all in glorious broadcasted 1vX fights that your forum toadies pay money to see.
I have zero desire to play Fengrush Online.
Edited by Minalan on February 9, 2017 5:23PM1 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭Have you listened to what Fengrush rants about? I like the guy, but I strongly disagree with him.
I have zero desire to play Fengrush Online.
I've seen what he rants about, and I've seen what you rant about. Fengrush Online sounds way more fun to me than Minalan Online. In a perfect world I'd be playing Out51d3r Online, but it's not a perfect world.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Have you listened to what Fengrush rants about? I like the guy, but I strongly disagree with him.
I have zero desire to play Fengrush Online.
I've seen what he rants about, and I've seen what you rant about. Fengrush Online sounds way more fun to me than Minalan Online. In a perfect world I'd be playing Out51d3r Online, but it's not a perfect world.
Difference is, neither of us has a developer's ear. We didn't get an all expense paid trip to Zenimax studios.
We're just players arguing with other players and having fun doing it.1 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭Difference is, neither of us has a developer's ear. We didn't get an all expense paid trip to Zenimax studios.
Sounds like plenty of players, including non-streamers did. TBH, I think one of the big motivators on bringing in the streamers is it allows ZOS a bit more influence over the streamer narrative than they normally have.
Edited by out51d3r on February 9, 2017 6:28PM0
