new Ancient Knowledge passive (2.7.5)

Olupajmibanan · February 2017

Ancient Knowledge: This passive ability no longer decreases the cast time of your Destruction Staff Heavy Attacks by 5/10%. Instead, it grants you a bonus as long as you have one Destruction Staff ability slotted. This bonus depends on your staff type

Do I understand it correctly or is it just a mistake spelling:

If I have Destro Staff equiped, but don't have any destro ability slotted I do NOT get the bonus????
So for ex. their new Frost Staff tanks are forced to slot a destro ability in order to get the bonus even if the ability has no use for them at all?

Thanks for responses.

Dracane · February 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Other weapon lines have things like "Increases your damage with dual wield abilities"
And destro has the limitation to have one abilitiy slotted, but it grants all other abilities the bonus.

And what's the problem with slotting wall of elements ? EVERYONE does this in pve, it's a must have dps ability for any comptetitive magicka DD and it is so easy to use and it's even usefull in pvp. I honestly don't see an issue with finding at least 1 Destro abilitiy that fits your build. I know, destrucive touch is extremely poor, elemental drain is no longer relevant because you can have Templar aoe draning everything with radiant aura, impulse is very weak and force pulse gets outdamage by a large margin by your puncturing sweeps.

But wall of elements, that's really good.

The problem is vMA staves.
The drop rate on sharpened vma inferno staffs is quite frankly *** atrocious, to the point where even just getting a vma inferno of any trait is tedious, so most just backbar whatever lousy trait vma staff they get and put woe there, take the small dps hit while on back bar but gain net damage overall.
Moving woe to the front bar would require a sharpened vma staff for the front bar, so for nb's still using strife and dk's who don't typically run force pulse, it's a bit of kick in the balls

I see. Yes.
Though, wall of elements should still be best in slot, no matter what staff you are carrying. Maelstrom staff in combination with Woe is essential if you want maximum potential. But you should in any case slot woe, so that's no excuse.

Am I still missing something? In case of Destro/Destro with no destro ability on the front bar, just slotting WoE to back bar enables the passive even for front bar? Didn't know that.

I thought that any slot-reliant passive is working only on the bar with the ability slotted.

In this case it' fine, every magicka class runs WoE on the back bar.

No. If you run destro/destro, then you will need a destruction ability on both bars if you want the effect on both.
Sorry if my post was misleading. Didn't think, that OP is using destro/destro. But even then, it's a good start to have this bonus on your main bar only. I use destro destro and I have force shock on my 1st bar and wall of elements on my 2nd. But I'm a Sorc, so I wouldn't use force shock on any other class.

AzuraKin · February 2017

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

brandonv516 · February 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Ancient Knowledge: This passive ability no longer decreases the cast time of your Destruction Staff Heavy Attacks by 5/10%. Instead, it grants you a bonus as long as you have one Destruction Staff ability slotted. This bonus depends on your staff type

Do I understand it correctly or is it just a mistake spelling:

If I have Destro Staff equiped, but don't have any destro ability slotted I do NOT get the bonus????
So for ex. their new Frost Staff tanks are forced to slot a destro ability in order to get the bonus even if the ability has no use for them at all?

Thanks for responses.

Sounds about right.

You would slot elemental drain for the debuff. You could even slot the ultimate.

Olupajmibanan · February 2017

This is serious matter to me, wanted to try a ranged magplar but having to slot destro ability is a limiting factor from now.

I must take Vampires Bane instead of Reflective Light and put it on back bar. Can't imagine refreshing 5 sec dot from the back bar.

sirston · February 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

This is serious matter to me, wanted to try a ranged magplar but having to slot destro ability is a limiting factor from now.

I must take Vampires Bane instead of Reflective Light and put it on back bar. Can't imagine refreshing 5 sec dot from the back bar.

just put force pulse on since its not refletable anymore.

Olupajmibanan · February 2017

sirston wrote: »

just put force pulse on since its not refletable anymore.

I meant a PVE ranged Magplar

Don't know the math, but Dark Flare sounds better than Force Pulse as a filler between dots.

Faunter · February 2017

It sounds like that's how it currently works, but I don't think it's supposed to work that way.

Aquanova · February 2017

It stinks. As a magicka dk try using Igneous Weapons now with a HA. Basically made Igneous more useless.

CTSCold · February 2017

Will eye of the storm trigger the passive? If so, it's not end of the world.

Edited: sorry I reread the thread and got my answer.

Tremors · February 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

Uhhhh > *points to sig*

IcyDeadPeople · February 2017

So I can't get the bonus for fire staff heavy attack without giving up slot for a useless ability?

Minalan · February 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

So I can't get the bonus for fire staff heavy attack without giving up slot for a useless ability?

Balance is all about making sacrifices, not getting free goodies.

datgladiatah · February 2017

Also most builds run a maelstrom staff and elemental blockade/unstable wall, so like, what destro staff ability is useless that you can't afford slotting?

IcyDeadPeople · February 2017

datgladiatah wrote: »

Also most builds run a maelstrom staff and elemental blockade/unstable wall, so like, what destro staff ability is useless that you can't afford slotting?

I don't participate in that sort of end game PVE content or group dungeons etc. This is just for solo PVP ganking with heavy attacks on mag DK. I suppose I may need to give up flame whip, though it is my main dps when I get rushed by melee builds

Also wanted to try using frost staff instead of S&B on back bar, but if I'm reading this correctly, seems it would require giving up 2 slots.

Minalan wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

So I can't get the bonus for fire staff heavy attack without giving up slot for a useless ability?

Balance is all about making sacrifices, not getting free goodies.

Sure, I'm just trying to make sure I understand how it works.

Olupajmibanan · February 2017

datgladiatah wrote: »

Also most builds run a maelstrom staff and elemental blockade/unstable wall, so like, what destro staff ability is useless that you can't afford slotting?

Can't think of a competitive build slotting Elemental Blockade and equip Maelstrom Staff on the front bar.

DarkAedin · February 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

just put force pulse on since its not refletable anymore.

I meant a PVE ranged Magplar

Don't know the math, but Dark Flare sounds better than Force Pulse as a filler between dots.

Puncturing sweeps. Even before the buff. Take another look at ur passives from aerdic spear line

Izaki · February 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

WHAT?! I sustain just fine with 800 recovery, without doing a single heavy attack. Its called group support through Orbs and Elemental Drain (Minor Magickasteal now).

idk · February 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

@AzuraKin

Why did you reply if you did not want to discuss the actual question being asked.

@Olupajmibanan

The passive change is a significant buff to Dstaff useage, at least for PvE. Very strong PvE magika build uses a staff on at least one bar, I've only seen tenplars with good builds using swords on any bar.

Simply put, every strong magika build has WoE (blockade) on the bar because it's one of the best dots in the game even when used single target. Many use the dstaff ult as well and that's 2 very good skills for the bars to obtain the new passives.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

This makes no sense, it should apply just for having a destruction staff equipped

IcyDeadPeople · February 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Many use the dstaff ult as well and that's 2 very good skills for the bars to obtain the new passives.

Oh, good to hear the ultimate counts as one of the skills!

xeNNNNN · February 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

WHAT?! I sustain just fine with 800 recovery, without doing a single heavy attack. Its called group support through Orbs and Elemental Drain (Minor Magickasteal now).

you shouldnt rely so much on healers for magicka sustain tbh (buffs as well).

I mean okay sure you can hit way harder if you dont need to have any focus on sustain yourself but id rather have a healer healing me 100% of the time instead of me dying because they were trying to buff or give resource boosts.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Many use the dstaff ult as well and that's 2 very good skills for the bars to obtain the new passives.

Oh, good to hear the ultimate counts as one of the skills!

This won't help tanking wardens who use a bear ultimate =/

Olupajmibanan · February 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

@AzuraKin

Why did you reply if you did not want to discuss the actual question being asked.

@Olupajmibanan

The passive change is a significant buff to Dstaff useage, at least for PvE. Very strong PvE magika build uses a staff on at least one bar, I've only seen tenplars with good builds using swords on any bar.

Simply put, every strong magika build has WoE (blockade) on the bar because it's one of the best dots in the game even when used single target. Many use the dstaff ult as well and that's 2 very good skills for the bars to obtain the new passives.

I have slotted Blockade, and even destro ult. But to make Ancient Knowledge work you must be on that bar. So I am either forced to put Elemental Rage (losing the 2% magicka for slotting Shooting Star) on the front bar or slot another destro staff skill. (You simply don't put Blockade on the front bar)

Why they made this so limiting? Why they couldn't just make this passive to work with destro staff equiped and that's all?

Seraphayel · February 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Many use the dstaff ult as well and that's 2 very good skills for the bars to obtain the new passives.

Oh, good to hear the ultimate counts as one of the skills!

This won't help tanking wardens who use a bear ultimate =/

Wow, so you know now that you will use the Bear as tank ultimate? Did you have any insights on how Wardens will work or are you just guesstimating?

ArchMikem · February 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

This is serious matter to me, wanted to try a ranged magplar but having to slot destro ability is a limiting factor from now.

I must take Vampires Bane instead of Reflective Light and put it on back bar. Can't imagine refreshing 5 sec dot from the back bar.

Well, for ranged you could still use Elemental Susceptibility/Drain, Destructive Reach (even though Javelin does same thing), and Force Pulse which are all long range abilities.

Chelo · February 2017

I slot Eye of the Storm and thats it... But really I was hopping to get the passive just with a Destro Staff and not with the need of having to slot skill... Since Im a MagBlade, I dont use Destro skills in my single target bar, not even Force Pulse, I preffer Funel Health.

zammo · February 2017

Chelo wrote: »

I slot Eye of the Storm and thats it... But really I was hopping to get the passive just with a Destro Staff and not with the need of having to slot skill... Since Im a MagBlade, I dont use Destro skills in my single target bar, not even Force Pulse, I preffer Funel Health.

I agree with this. Swapped out Swallow Soul for Force Pulse last night, and immediately realised how beneficial the heal of Swallow Soul is.

I'd also prefer to take Soul Tether ahead of Eye of the Storm.

Dracane · February 2017

Other weapon lines have things like "Increases your damage with dual wield abilities"
And destro has the limitation to have one abilitiy slotted, but it grants all other abilities the bonus.

And what's the problem with slotting wall of elements ? EVERYONE does this in pve, it's a must have dps ability for any comptetitive magicka DD and it is so easy to use and it's even usefull in pvp. I honestly don't see an issue with finding at least 1 Destro abilitiy that fits your build. I know, destrucive touch is extremely poor, elemental drain is no longer relevant because you can have Templar aoe draning everything with radiant aura, impulse is very weak and force pulse gets outdamage by a large margin by your puncturing sweeps.

But wall of elements, that's really good.

SublimeSparo · February 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Other weapon lines have things like "Increases your damage with dual wield abilities"
And destro has the limitation to have one abilitiy slotted, but it grants all other abilities the bonus.

And what's the problem with slotting wall of elements ? EVERYONE does this in pve, it's a must have dps ability for any comptetitive magicka DD and it is so easy to use and it's even usefull in pvp. I honestly don't see an issue with finding at least 1 Destro abilitiy that fits your build. I know, destrucive touch is extremely poor, elemental drain is no longer relevant because you can have Templar aoe draning everything with radiant aura, impulse is very weak and force pulse gets outdamage by a large margin by your puncturing sweeps.

But wall of elements, that's really good.

The problem is vMA staves.
The drop rate on sharpened vma inferno staffs is quite frankly *** atrocious, to the point where even just getting a vma inferno of any trait is tedious, so most just backbar whatever lousy trait vma staff they get and put woe there, take the small dps hit while on back bar but gain net damage overall.
Moving woe to the front bar would require a sharpened vma staff for the front bar, so for nb's still using strife and dk's who don't typically run force pulse, it's a bit of kick in the balls

mewcatus · February 2017

xeNNNNN wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

no idea, but dont matter to me, i dont use staffs on most of my mage builds, and the 1 that does, only uses it because even at 1600 regen, sorcs need heavy attacks to maintain resources in extended fights (i.e. boss fights)

WHAT?! I sustain just fine with 800 recovery, without doing a single heavy attack. Its called group support through Orbs and Elemental Drain (Minor Magickasteal now).

you shouldnt rely so much on healers for magicka sustain tbh (buffs as well).

I mean okay sure you can hit way harder if you dont need to have any focus on sustain yourself but id rather have a healer healing me 100% of the time instead of me dying because they were trying to buff or give resource boosts.

I keep telling pple that. Honestly, keeping dps alive to regen resources is far better then having them dead.

Dracane · February 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Other weapon lines have things like "Increases your damage with dual wield abilities"
And destro has the limitation to have one abilitiy slotted, but it grants all other abilities the bonus.

And what's the problem with slotting wall of elements ? EVERYONE does this in pve, it's a must have dps ability for any comptetitive magicka DD and it is so easy to use and it's even usefull in pvp. I honestly don't see an issue with finding at least 1 Destro abilitiy that fits your build. I know, destrucive touch is extremely poor, elemental drain is no longer relevant because you can have Templar aoe draning everything with radiant aura, impulse is very weak and force pulse gets outdamage by a large margin by your puncturing sweeps.

But wall of elements, that's really good.

The problem is vMA staves.
The drop rate on sharpened vma inferno staffs is quite frankly *** atrocious, to the point where even just getting a vma inferno of any trait is tedious, so most just backbar whatever lousy trait vma staff they get and put woe there, take the small dps hit while on back bar but gain net damage overall.
Moving woe to the front bar would require a sharpened vma staff for the front bar, so for nb's still using strife and dk's who don't typically run force pulse, it's a bit of kick in the balls

I see. Yes.
Though, wall of elements should still be best in slot, no matter what staff you are carrying. Maelstrom staff in combination with Woe is essential if you want maximum potential. But you should in any case slot woe, so that's no excuse.

The Elder Scrolls Online

new Ancient Knowledge passive (2.7.5)

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