@Recremen

Uff, I much rather pay 14€ and take the 1500 crowns plus the other subscription perks than to use the same amount of real life money to buy just the crowns.But whatever floats your goat.

Zvorgin wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

We are not getting a DLC zone this year

Baseless conjecture.

The features sound nice. But we're only a month into the year. Let's not say the sky is falling just yet.

It will be a year since the last DLC in August. We may only be a month into 2017 but that doesn't excuse the lack of DLC for the previous 4 months.

I'm confused. Are you expecting a new zone DLC EVERY month?!? Yikes. Is it any wonder there are so many other issues with ESO since everybody needs to be scrambling to figure out where to put zones and what content to put in to it to satisfy!

The entitlement is strong in this one.

ZOS promised 4 DLCs per year after IC. They made this statement, not me. Is it entitlement to hold someone to their word?

I downloaded One Tamriel, isn't that a DLC? Or did it come out back in August? That seems like a long time ago.

It's a tricky area because they clearly stated DLC, not updates. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but then for them to put so much effort into excluding Morrowind as DLC makes me realize that it's all about money, not keeping promises. I want ZOS to make money and keep ESO alive but not at the cost of integrity.

DenMoria wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

We are not getting a DLC zone this year

Baseless conjecture.

The features sound nice. But we're only a month into the year. Let's not say the sky is falling just yet.

It will be a year since the last DLC in August. We may only be a month into 2017 but that doesn't excuse the lack of DLC for the previous 4 months.

I'm confused. Are you expecting a new zone DLC EVERY month?!? Yikes. Is it any wonder there are so many other issues with ESO since everybody needs to be scrambling to figure out where to put zones and what content to put in to it to satisfy!

The entitlement is strong in this one.

ZOS promised 4 DLCs per year after IC. They made this statement, not me. Is it entitlement to hold someone to their word?

Didn't we get 4 DLC's last year? I seem to remember that we did:
Imperial City
Orsinium
Dark Brotherhood
Thieves Guild

I think there may have been more, but I haven't really been paying close attention.

And didn't we also get One Tamriel along with any number of smaller items and crown store items as well? And didn't they just announce Morrowind?

How much more do you want?

@DenMoria

Imperial City and Orsinium were from 2015, then Thieve's Guild and Dark Brotherhood were from 2016. The third DLC was the Argonian dungeon pack. There was no DLC in 4th quarter of 2016 and there is no DLC in 1st quarter of 2017. We still got good content, but they are not DLC and do not add any benefit to an ESO+ subscription. Morrowind is not a DLC and so it does not add to the ESO+ value. So for three updates in a row we are not getting the DLC updates that were advertised. It's okay to admit that they have not provided the advertised services, they aren't going to swoop down from the heavens and steal your guar.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Recremen

Uff, I much rather pay 14€ and take the 1500 crowns plus the other subscription perks than to use the same amount of real life money to buy just the crowns.But whatever floats your goat.

@Chilly-McFreeze

You get a better deal for Crowns by buying the larger packs, but I digress. The point isn't whether or not you specifically find value in the current ESO+ setup, it's whether or not a significant-enough portion of subscribers find the current offerings lackluster and if the current offerings are sufficient to entice more subscribers. If you are currently satisfied that's great, but I'm pretty sure you'd be just as satisfied if you were getting a better value out of it. More importantly, a better value would entice more subscriptions while the current trend of devaluing subscriptions only encourages people to drop them.

DenMoria wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

I completely agree ESO+ needs to be looked at again. It is irrelevant saying "they have added this and that" the point is, its value has diminished from what it was. They are no longer delivering four free DLC's a year to subscribers.

If people say "don't sub then" or "play something else" well fair enough, but that's hardly the attitude a business looking to earn money should adopt.

You do realize that a good 99% of the ESO+ subscribers probably have absolutely no issue with this whole thing.

I, and most people that I play ESO with, do not have the time to be obsessing over more and more and more content. We haven't the time to get through everything there is now!

We are well satisfied.

As to those that aren't. I am sorry, but, ZOS never promised you a rose garden, just content every quarter (DLC/Update/whatever... it's the same thing).

You shouldn't use statistics in a debate when you have no evidence to substantiate the validity of said statistic.

As to your other point I made no claim that either myself or subscribers expect a "Rose Garden" simply that ESO+ has diminished in value and some kind of token gesture to appease disgruntled subscribers would be appropriate and appreciated.

But how has it diminished it's value? You have yet to actually state HOW. All you've done is complain that you haven't gotten DLC's which were released (sure expansions, dlc's, add-ons), whatever. You can't tell me that the only thing that matters to you is more content. What do you expect from them? There is so much content now?

And, BTW - perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. My first statement is couched with the the phrase "probably have". I was not stating an actual statistic. I can only go by my community of about 70 people that I play with regularly that actively avoid the "full-time" players as they seem to think they're so much "better" than us because, apparently, they have nothing else except playing ESO going on in their lives at the moment. The Elitism and entitlement in that group is astounding. Not only are you NEVER good enough for them, but you are NEVER a high enough level, you NEVER have the right equipment, you do not perform EVER as they wish you to perform and they are more than happy to try to bully you at every turn.

I, for one, am quite happy with ESO and everything I've gotten out of it and do not feel betrayed or that a measly 14.99 USD a month is being misspent.

How has it diminished in value? This was pulled from the Road Ahead article.

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter.

That's three crown store DLC's a year, not four which subscribers have previously been entitled to. Base game quarterly updates are free content so they do not count. What do I expect? Well that's what this thread discussion is all about. QOL options possibly. Free teleportation in game etc.

As to your other point, you did state a statistic. I was also well aware you said "Probably". But my point still stands in my opinion. BTW insulting people just makes you look bad.

As to you comments about "Full time players" I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. If you are insinuating I fall in to that category you are again mistaken.

I am pleased you are happy with ESO and that you do not feel betrayed. But opinions, in this instance, clearly vary. Peace.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

This is more a "buyer beware" type thing.
Told one thing but got another.

It isn't the 1st time ZOS has reneged on a promise to the customers and at this point, the fact that people still hold their word to mean ANYTHING at all is laughable.

You got screwed over.
You got played for fools.
You got dunked on.

G
E
T

O
V
E
R

I
T

You aren't special.
You are not the 1st person ever in the history of anything that this has happened to seriously just stop with the entitlement already.

"I paid a sub and help support this game, I am enti-" You can stop right there because I'm going to tell you something that might hurt your feelings. ZOS doesn't care. They are a company 1st and foremost and a company has quotas to make and deadlines to meet. You are a dollar sign to them, one that, by your own admission, has been supporting their decisions with your subscription fee. You could have stopped supporting them when they added the Crown Store, you could have stopped when they added the Crown Crates but no, you continued to allow ZOS to push the envelop. You didn't care before when ZOS broke their word time and time again but now that it's affecting you, you want to do try and do something about it but the sad, sad truth of the matter is that you are just one of many people paying to support this game. So what if you quit paying your sub. You're the one that loses out because you lose out on all those little perks you had before, like the crafting bag and monthly crown allowance, and ZOS will easily make 1000x what your measly little sup fee was giving them from the people that are going to buy that $40 Morrowind expansion. It's simple math really.

15x12 = $180
180/40 = 4.5

It would take ~5 people buying Morrowind to make up for your sub fee for a year and we all know that more than 5 people will be buying Morrowind.

You aren't entitled, you don't get anything special just because you feel that you deserve it after being lied to. Life doesn't work that way so really, just get over it already.

inb4 Tinfoil hat is too tight
inb4 Doom and Gloom conspiracy theorist
inb4 whatever else because inb4 is so hipster.

You're entitled to your opinion of this just like I'm entitled to mine. It's about the only true thing we are entitled to in life anyways.

@Silver_Strider

I hope you're not pointing all that my way, because I think your brain broke a little if you're misconstruing my post that much. I am just suggesting that they add more systems like the Crafting Bag to make up for lost value and make the subscription more enticing. It's not a "my bum got hurt because I was lied to" situation, you came in with that presumption all on your own. I'm making a rational argument about what was advertised, where it was found lacking, and what could be done to make up for it. Does that really deserve an all-caps, emotionally-charged response?

I didn't know you lost some content...what did they took away from you?

There are valid points from the subscribers who feel they should have access to this new content, included in their subscription. I do agree that it would be logical. I have some observations to make on the subject.

Note that I am just expressing below my view on this move and am in no way advocating for or against it, just observing.

For several reasons that I will not debate right now, ESO was not doing as well as expected for all that subscription model time until 1T. ESO had to change to 1T exactly to attract more players and had to change the game model appeal from more hardcore to more casual (Craglorn pre-1T and post-1T is the prime example of this change).
When Crown Crates were introduced, a lot of people were against it (some more passionately than others) and a lot of it revolved around the argument that ESO was going to become F2P based on aesthetics rather than content - which was a fair prediction based on the available information and I personally also dislike the implementation of Crown Crates. Shortly after, we started to see motifs at high prices in the Crown Store, which added fuel to that fire for sure.

So, it seemed evident that ZOS needed more income from the game, that much was obvious, and made ESO more casual-friendly since 1T and was therefore going to appeal to the so-called "whales" and compulsive buyers of "shiny things".

Now, I think that ESO+ was a brilliant move from ZOS as the craft bag + DLC is really worth it, in my opinion. Still, probably not as many people chose that route, for several reasons, and ZOS may have come to a crossroads: do they bring the game all the way down the F2P aesthetic lane and fulfill the doom prophecies or do they change their model to offer content value for cash?

In fact, I read quite a lot of opinions on those Crown Crate threads from people who clearly stated that they wouldn't mind paying for content and out of those, some even preferred going back to a subscription model. ZOS probably understood that this would be an alternative route.

I think they will now be trying to hold a sort of balance between one and the other. I believe there will be more "expansions" of this sort, reasonably priced, and we will also be seeing more value added to ESO+ in the future to try to attract more people to it and avoid the F2P change, while still developing and offering content, but they will still be putting up Crown Crates and high-priced motifs and mounts too for the "whales".

Will this balance work? I don't know.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

What I find more than a little frightening is that someone actually said: "ESO+ members who were banking on the promised DLC schedule to get the true value out of their subscriptions."

Honestly, I've been an ESO+ member since the beginning and never once has that thought even crossed my mind.

I know that some folks just throw money at a company without any expectation of receiving something of value, but most of us are rational people making good decisions with our money.

You pay 14€ for the subscription per month. And for that you get 1500 crowns which alone are worth these 14€ in the crown store. Soooooo....
Plus you get the bag, dye, xp/inspiration bonus and access to each and every previous dlc and every coming DLC (3 per year).

But okay, it's not worth it and I'm not a rational people and poor at making decisions with my money.

Just because you think thats good value, doesn't mean all other subscribers do.

For you, the crowns might seem worth it, although you can get nearly 4 times as many crowns by not subbing, and spending the same amount of money in the sales, you would still end up with far more crowns after buying all the dlc.

Different people get ESO+ for different things.

For me personally I have zero interest in the exp boost, it's stupidly easy to level up and if I was that bothered, I'd buy exp pots from traders. Gold is so easy to come by at higher levels that the gold boost also is not worth it to me.

I've never dyed anything, so also zero interest. Sure I waste the crowns on stupid things like pets, but only because they are there, I would never buy crowns to purchase pets and have zero interest in them.

The one thing for me that makes me want to sub is the crafting bag, nothing else. However I couldn't justify subbing just for that, it's simply too much money for extra storage, I would rather simply buy a second account, and use that for storage.

However, as I was told I get 4 lots of DLC a year for my sub, that made the sub worthwhile. But if I'm not getting this (nothing to do with paying for Morrowind) then I can't justify it. All these people saying on other threads about how much people spend on costa coffee etc, well I don't, I would never waste money on high street coffee, I probably buy about 3 takeaway meals a year and go out for dinner on mine and my wifes birthday.

I live on a very tight budget due to illness, I am very careful how I spend my money. Yes I can afford to sub, but it has to be worthwhile. It was worthwhile if I had received what was promised, but I didn't, and they have now officially changed what we get.

To make it worthwhile, I would have to receive 4 lots of DLC content that was sold in the crown store, not content that everyone got whether they subbed or not.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what dlc have I received in the last 2 quarters of last year and what dlc will I receive in the first two quarters of this year that's not available free to non subscriber or is an additional cost anyway regardless if you sub or not (Morrowind). As far as I can tell, unless I'm forgetting something, the answer will be that in that 12 months, I would have received zero dlc that non subs had to pay for

So for me, I will buy crowns very occasionally in sales to buy any of the DLC outright, will buy another addition of the game, will buy the yearly expansions and will still save a LOT over paying the subscription.

So Zenimax needs to ask themselves how many people will go down the same route as me. If it's just a few, then it will make no real difference to them, but if enough people do cancel their subs, well to put it bluntly, me cancelling my sub and buying the yearly expansion and all dlc, Zenimax are getting far less money from me than if I had continued subbing.

I am a hoarder of mats for crafting so for me being a + member the crafting bags is worth more to me than a dlc. In saying that I didn't have a problem with having to buy Morrowind and we will still get up coming dlc's. Now that we know that approx June every year will be a "chapter" that is not covered by eso + there won't be as much outrage like it has been.
Of course I wouldn't say no if ZOS wanted to add anything else to the + membership

Silver_Strider wrote: »

@Recremen

It's more a general statement than a statement directed at any 1 person.

Subscribers are losing out on 1 DLC a year and that's literally all you're losing, forgetting all the other stuff you've gotten for being an ESO+ member. Crafting bags weren't included in ESO+ at the start but it eventually got included without any extra charge to your ESO+ cost. Then we also have to consider all the crowns you get every month. Some will say that there isn't anything worth buying in the crown store and that's their opinion but not everyone feels the same way. Hell, I think that if I had the crowns, I'd have bought the Merchant NPC as well as the Banker just for the sake of convenience they offer. Then, considering that Homestead is going to be an outright grind just to make your house presentable and those crown store furnishings and pre-made homes look more and more enticing to people.

Some people feel cheated out of their sub fee and maybe they're justified in that thought but other don't feel that way. I don't feel that way because that's how it was for past MMOs that I played and just figured that was par for the course, which I'm sure is how other people that have played other MMOs feel as well and most of those games didn't give even a quarter of the benefits that ESO+ does, if they gave anything at all.

@Silver_Strider

The Crafting Bag is actually a great example of what I'm talking about. It's a system added to ESO+ and makes up for the fact that we didn't get our promised DLC in Q4 2016. More systems like that are not a bad way to make up the difference.

I still don't understand why someone who chooses to continue their subscription wouldn't stop whenever they felt there wasn't value