Let's clear the air on why people are angry

Cronopoly · February 2017

Cancelled Sub as well. Apparently it's not appreciated and has less value. They've revamped BDO lately and have removed most of the annoying stuff people complained about, I might try it now as a distraction.

Surgee · February 2017

You do know that ZOS does not care if you're angry or not? They know that 99% of people who complain will still buy it. That's all that matters to them.

Nuntjako · February 2017

To me it's pretty simple: Are you as a customer happy with what you are paying for? Do you get your moneys worth?

If you feel that you aren't, don't pay. If you are happy keep paying.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Another part that continues to eat away at ppl is that "People" are also upset cause many of you continue to consider subscribers as something special or some special supporter.

You're not special and many of you who sub and prob buy crowns aren't spending any more than the next person.

Others spend money too and so the community back n forth is between those who arrogantly say they are the loyal supporters and suggest ppl who just buy crowns are not

That part it's really important to squash among ourselves.

FYI. I've only subbed for 4 months but I've spent $335 in 2016 on this game. There are a lot of ppl who have spent more than$180 but that $180 doesn't mean anything, it's just how you decided to pay for content

Prof_Bawbag · February 2017

I'm usually the first person to faux rage over expensive *** such as motifs, housing and mounts, but this type of content I think is worth the asking price whether i sub or not. Expansions/very large dlc is what I think gaming should be about and what it used to be about. I have zero issue with the way they've presented it. Whilst I loathe everything about 5k/6k motifs, 5k mounts and cash grab housing.

mb10 · February 2017

Lol boohoo, you all chose to pay monthly its not forced upon you.

I have all the DLC and the cosmetics that I want/need and paid over a spread whereas you guys were paying every month and enjoying the crowns, crates and crafting bag.

Now they arent throwing stuff at you anymore, you're all crying about it.

Ive even heard people wanting an increase in RNG for being ESO+ members LOL

Hand_Bacon · February 2017

Love it!
The first page is full of all new complaints.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IS ZoS going to call everything an expansion now ?

Cronopoly wrote: »

We all can have our own opinions but not our own facts.

DLC = "Down Loadable Content"

THIS ^

The whole difference is in the content delivery method.
Expansion - it is a physical copy sold in stores in separate physical box, that required you to have the base game.
DLC - it is a "Down Loadable Content" sold separately via internet stores, that requires you to have the base game.

So Expansion IS a DLC when bought digitally.
DLC IS an Expansion when bought as a separate physical copy in a box.

DreadKnight · February 2017

Paying for the expansion does not make me angry.

Paying for ESO+ per month does not make me angry.

If I work out the amount of hours I've INVESTED in this game vs. cost per hour it represents pretty good entertainment value in my eyes. I'm not angry about it.

What I am angry about is:

Getting DC'd.
Getting DC'd when I die in Cyrodiil and being dumped somewhere in pvp land not able to res.
Lag in Cyrodiil so bad that I come across a player and then I'm dead - no idea why at all but lag mostly.
Such terrible 'support' that nobody at ZOS even acknowledges the game has problems on console.
The Zerg situation in Cyrodiil and the ring of pain that it is.

^ THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT MAKE ME ANGRY.

I'M HAPPY TO PAY AND SUPPORT ZOS AS A COMPANY, BUT FOR FFS FIX THE EFFING GAME (ON CONSOLE)!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

EDIT: oh, and the post expansion 3 months of additional bugs on console is potentially up there too

SickDuck · February 2017

Free crowns, benefits and ALL future content for free for a small monthly fee? Doesn't that sound just too good to be true? How dare ZOS trying to back out of the deal?!

It's like saying "keep on grinding, every xp is recorded and counts for the new champion system!" and then deciding not to...

If someone pays the sub on the belief it will get everything for free then bad luck. Time to wake up and shake off those delusions. That said ESO+ is still a perfectly good deal based on what it grants you already.

drakhan2002_ESO · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided.

DLC and expansion are NOT interchangeable terms. They are interchangeable as "nice" is to "kind". Both are often confused as interchangeable, but mean entirely different things...just like DLC and expansion. It's nice to tell someone that outfit looks good on them...it's kind to tell them the truth (even if it is negative!).

DLC is downloadable content - meaning that you may download additional content which is a medium of content distribution. Expansion means that it is adding to the base game and while the medium of distribution (downloadable) may be the same as DLC, expansion is much larger in scope.

Riejael · February 2017

SickDuck wrote: »

It's like saying "keep on grinding, every xp is recorded and counts for the new champion system!" and then deciding not to...

When I came back in November after a break for nearly a year, my exp was converted over.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2017

Osteos wrote: »

Or... most forum posters aren't happy unless they are miserable. Or as my dad who served in the Navy would say bitching sailors are happy sailors.

I sub and pre ordered the game and have been playing since early access and I didn't expect nor am I upset an expansion isn't part of the eso+ dlc access.

Fact is not all subs feel cheated.

@Osteos

Yup. I think folks are being a bit too harsh on ZOS in some cases.

I'd love to play this DLC, maybe one day i'll get to. Right now though, I simply won't be able pay for it. 40-50 bucks is the cost of one insurance co-pay visit to my specialist Dr(one of the best in US one of only two rated 5 stars on WebMD and others) and I have to see that DR.

I am now paying significant amounts of money\) in medicine to keep me alive, keeping me able to go to work, and out of the hospital. I was finding it hard to figure out a way to fit my ESO + sub in(I canceled but has 2 and half months left on it), this however puts it out of the reach im willing pay right now. My sub renews quarterly so 168 + 50 is simply too much to pay for a year in my current situation.

Perhaps costs will change for me for where down the line(im not sure how i'll need this medicine probably for the rest of my life, but maybe it will get cheaper). If my costs somehow go down and get better and im still interested i'll totally come back at some point and play it.

Im envious of those who will be able to play this DLC. I will miss my friends that will get to play it, but sometimes life deals you hands you simply have to deal with and there is no way getting around it. I'll always cherish them time we have hung out together, some of the most fun I have ever had in front of a video game. You will have to continue to tell me how good the expansion is.

sadownik · February 2017

@RinaldoGandolphi first best of luck to and the ones close to you.

I am not subbing since the game went b2p so i dont have eggs in the basket but for me as an outsider (havent logged in for months) its realy clear.

First roll over customers - withholding content until change of business model without informing subscribers about their plans, then luring people to sub by literal promising all downloadable content packs will be available to them and to show how great it will be we had a rapid deployment (rapid in ESO terms midn you) of 4 dlcs from which at least 2 were already far advanced during p2p period from what i remember of relations of that "elite guild council" that supossibly people were able to see parts of it.

Now after another few months of no content the announce they will not release dlc, nor expansion - they will release chapter and its not included in sub. Now since ZOS called it chapter adn very much insisted on it for me it means 2 things - that "chapter will be much smaller than some people expect and that chapter 3 is coming.

Do you know any other b2p title that has optional sub and still charges you for additional content?

Xundiin · February 2017

The two terms are orthogonal - an expansion pack might be DLC, but that would imply two different facts:

It is downloadable, e.g. it can be obtained entirely via online means and installed automatically into the game.
It adds significant features into the game.

DLC - "downloadable content" - is a very broad term for any additional parts of a game that you can obtain from any of the various online vendors. It's generally reserved for official content from the original publisher, to distinguish it from community content. That is, an additional module for Skyrim to add fancy armor for your horse would be a "mod" if a user did it, but "DLC" if Bethesda did it. DLC can also be very big; for Skyrim, both Dawnguard and Hearthfire are DLC and they make extensive changes to the game.

An "expansion pack" is a separate product that builds on top of an existing game to add significant new features. Expansion packs can usually be purchased at retail and installed from CD, and exist separately from their parent game. They are typically "mini games" in their own right, but rely on the content and engine of their original game for much of their content. In Skyrim, Dawnguard is obviously an "expansion pack" - it add new lands, new weapons, new skill trees, etc. I don't know if it's available for retail yet but I would be very surprised if there's not a Skyrim GOTY edition that includes the two expansion packs.

A better example might be Oblivion: there was a handful of DLC released, including horse armor and Knight of the Nine. Later, there was an actual expansion pack - Shivering Isles - that added an entire new land and new features into the game. (The line was blurried a bit when Bethesda packaged all of their DLC onto a CD for retail sale, but it was basically the same as downloading the DLC and burning the archives to to disk.)

With so much game delivery being online these days, and with official downloadable content getting bigger, the line between a "plug-in" and an "expansion pack" is blurring, and all of it would be considered "DLC".

This is the best explanation I could find that explains the difference. So it basically comes down to what the company wants to call it, not the players. Because from what I gathered Morrowind is suppose to be the biggest addition to the game that ZOS felt that it had more of a expansion feel to it rather than a DLC and decided to go that route with distribution. It also generates extra income for the company to do more things with. It also could be a test to see how well it is received for the future if they want to release something on the same scale. If you feel they wronged, then don't buy it. If you don't buy it because you don't agree, don't go running around throwing temper tantrums over your decision. ZOS isn't your mom that will cave when you stomp your foot.

Tabbycat · February 2017

I am a subscriber and I am not angry.

Crowns in the crown store cost $15 and you get 1500.

I pay $15 a month and I get the 1500 crowns, the bottomless crafting bag, some perks and access to dlc.

The fact that you get some bonus crowns for purchasing higher amounts of crowns is offset by the bonuses for the subscription. The dlc is just one part of it. You still have access to all that other content with your sub, just not Morrowind. I'm sure we'll get access to all future content that is considered dlc and not a "Chapter".

I wish people saying "Subscribers are angry!" would stop it. Not all subscribers are angry.

Banana · February 2017

Doesn't worry me. I'll happily pay more for real content.

kevlarto_ESO · February 2017

I do not see any reason to be angry, this game is doing nothing any different than any other game, wow has a sub you have to still buy the expansions, guild wars sold separate games, this is the market and how these companies make profit, if you don't like it don't play it, you have cable tv you add HBO you have to pay for that on top of your cable subscription, that's the way the world works.

They don't make these games because they love us, they love our money, and as long as your having fun with the game what's the problem, I am still at odds with them over the lack of enforcement of cheating in this game, but I still enjoy the game, I just don't buy out of the crown store as my protest, but I will buy the expansion because I enjoy the pve in the game and don't have to worry about cheaters to much.

DMuehlhausen · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.

People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.

People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.

Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.

These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.

The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to buy this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.

This is why some people are angry.

DLC and Expansions are not interchangeable. If you believe they are then you don't have understand what the words mean. They didn't cheat subs out of anything. This new EXPANSION, as they always have said it is, will feel almost like we got a new alliance or something to play through. With a new Class as well it's more than just basic DLC content as well.

Stop lumping all subs or all players into the category you are in simply because you don't understand the definition of words.

BlackEar · February 2017

I sub for the crafting bag and will continue to sub for the crafting bag.

Marto · February 2017

As I sub, I do feel cheated because I was purposely saving crowns to buy the Q2 update.

Then they reveal the Q2 update can only be purchased directly through the store.

I have limited resources I can't buy both crowns/ESO+ and the expansion.

I'm fine with them not releasing it for ESO+... as long as they introduce a crown option. That way, the only thing subs need to do is show some restraint, stop buying cosmetics for 3 months, and now they would own Vvardenfell.

Mr_Apollo · February 2017

None of us is going all fussy about it because of the price, we are all fussy cause they lied and recalled ADDITIONAL CONTENT an expansion pack so they don't get into issues. They promised free additional content for as long as you were subscribed, but you know what they did? They shoved that out of the window and decided to charge for this additional content even to subscribers

Contraptions · February 2017

Ignoring the whole sub/non-sub issue now, I have no problems paying extra money for a proper expansion, even when non-US players like me are likely screwed over by conversion fees. But Morrowind's content, at the current moment, just seems EXTREMELY lacking compared to the expacs other big MMOs put out. Sure, ZOS could have more content they haven't announced coming, but I highly doubt it.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to release a DLC sized piece of content, then we expect a DLC sized price. If you want to charge what WOW or GW2 are charging for an expac, we should be getting an amount of content/revamps comparable to what they're getting as well. I don't think that's being entitled.

danno8 · February 2017

Some people believed that subbing meant they would never have to pay for content again. The problem with that is it makes all content essentially $15, since it can all be completed in less than a month. You can sub for $15, play for a month, then quit.

ZoS was fine giving away Hews Bane, Gold Coast and Orsinium for free to subscribers but I guess the work going into Morrowind was simply too much to pass off for "free" or only $15 for the transient.

Juhasow · February 2017

What makes me angry is the fact that they dont even try to discuss this with community. They just announced new DLC...oh sorry expansion and few minutes later started to sell pre orders to expansion that will come in june. Screw the community money is all what matters here.

But what makes me even more angry is the fact there is lot of crying about this right now but lets be honest most of the people will buy expansion anyway we all know that and Zenimax also knows that.

kylewwefan · February 2017

I love ESO. I will always sub. I don't like the crown crates gambling aspect, but I want to support the game I love. I'll gladly buy the expansion because I know exactly what I'm getting.

Feel terrible writing I so many times.

Ozstryker · February 2017

I subscribe to sky, I pay for sky sports....Then they come out with PPV events!

I own a car, I buy fuel and pay tolls etc.. Then I have to pay road tax!

I bought a game, I subscribe to that game, then I have to pay for expansions!

Welcome to capitalism kids!!

DocFrost72 · February 2017

I don't mean to be rude, but you understand that expansions are massive, sweeping changes to the very framework of the game, where DLC is just "moar stuff"? ESO can be argued to have given us an expansion with Tamriel Unlimited already- and that was free. Subbing will give you access to DLCs, dollar value in crowns, and future DLCs. Subbing also grants you the ability to dye costumes freely, and best of all? Crafting bags.

I can understand a bit of "well shucks", but honestly I'm buying the collectors edition lol. They absolutely loaded this expansion with all kinds of stuff, and I'll gladly pay for it and still maintain my sub.

Wifeaggro13 · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.

People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.

People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.

Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.

These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.

The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to buy this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.

This is why some people are angry.

they put the bait and switch on subs a long time ago with crafting bag

RebornV3x · February 2017

I just think it sets a bad example now every future dlc that includes a new zone from here out will be called an "expansion" so that people will pay a eso+ sub and for the expansion

people that subbed thinking that they will get access to all future dlc have a right to be angry

Either way there's no reason to pay a sub fee for this game anymore unless 15$ a month for a crafting bag is worth it. Be cheaper in the long run to buy each dlc outright.