VMoL Has Ruined PS4's PvE Scene

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

VMoL has turned people into elitists and turned people into liars. Or rather brought those things to the surface, if they've already existed.

You have people comparing DPS scores constantly if you want a chance at getting in a group, and people getting hounded about what gear they're wearing, and who they know. You basically get interviewed at a chance of doing VMoL. And even then the so-called progression teams are a sham. Or so I've experienced from 4 different guilds. It's to the point now some guilds literally break people up as: "Skinned" and "Non-Skinned". The "Non-Skinned" people get treated like ****, and get placed on these strictly timed "progression teams" that really just waste time. And wipe constantly until the time is up for the progression team's "slot", and then at the end give a half-assed speech about how the progress was good. Only for moments later after the run to talk about how the "Skinned" make things so much easier, and how they actually try during those. WTF? And to make matters worse, it's not even like these folks are even applying strategies and methods that they came up with themselves. No. They got it from watching YouTube videos, and communicating with folks who play on PC. Get information from there, and replicate it until it's damn near the same. It's ridiculous.

Oh, and you best believe I'm not leaving out the corrupt side of things. Remember that exploit of Maw? Well there's tons of people with the skin, and don't even know the mechanics. But get treated like royalty whereever they go because of it. I met a CP277 earlier in Grahtwood. Asked how they got the skin, and was told that they, "Got it while the getting was good." Huh? Seriously? And they get treated better than other folks because they exploited for it? Not to mention the carrying nonsense occurring. The so-called "Number 1" end-game PvE guild calling themselves a "Council" on PS4 are selling "Carry Runs" for 2M to anyone wanting the skin. And supposedly the person being carried gets to keep all 12 gold pieces awarded at the end. The hell?

That's where we are as an end-game PvE community right now on console, and it's horrible. It's get shuffled around and bs'd to constantly, unless you know someone who'll "make time for you" to get tested relentlessly. Get thrown in half-added progression teams. Get treated like ****, spoken down to, lied to, and forgotten about for the most part. And hope you just can click-up with the "pros" to let you into a dedicated Maw group.

Why am I even talking about this, being as how I do often speak of preferring solo play and being on my own? Because I witnessed the crap first-hand for myself not too long ago, and am disgusted. And plus I've had experience of what is occurring myself. Even as a guy who solo's vet dungeons on hard mode, has flawless, has beaten all vet trials on hard mode — I'm labeled as "progression" and "subpar" due to not having a damn Maw skin. And because of the bs, I probably won't ever get it. Damn the fact I know mechanics of the place inside and out. Damn the fact I put up with DPS tests in the past from this and that guild, when I hate the stupid tests to begin with. Damn the fact I can do what most can't, and have video footage of me doing so. Damn all that. That means nothing, all because my skin isn't black with shiny blue inserts. I've been lied to by guild after guild, and people who I thought were friends. All because of something Maw related usually being behind it. I'm so sick and tired of the ****, you won't believe it.

And it's not just Maw that this crap started. No. The elitism and segregation REALLY kicked off with the Stormproof emergence. If you weren't Stormproof, you didn't mean squat. And we're ignored and treated like filth. Now it's Maw. And because of the events that happened previously, it's 10x worse than back then. Except when back then (and to this day somewhat people account shared for Stormproof clears. And paid others to get leaderboard runs. This still occurs, but not as much as it used to.

Welcome to the world of MMO end game where elitist/hardcore player exist to only make the casual or new to end game player life hard.

I see this in other games and it leaves a real sour taste in my mouth.

Ballzy321 · January 2017

If your on Xbox you can just goto craglorn and buy skin for 300 k and snipe glitch him

Tyrion87 · January 2017

I just wonder how many of these "create your own guild" players have actually created their own guild to progress vet trials, and how many of them were invited to join the existing ones.

Chadak · January 2017

Sounds like a normal day in the typical PC mmo.

Loathsome, innit?

Ch4mpTW · January 2017

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I just wonder how many of these "create your own guild" players have actually created their own guild to progress vet trials, and how many of them were invited to join the existing ones.

You sir win the Internet for the day. That's exactly what I'm thinking. It's reeeeeeal easy to talk as though there is no problem staring straight in front of you, when you're snuggled in tight with the "right" clique of folks. You have your Maw skin, and are in the know of this and that. Reeeeeal easy to come to a thread like this, and play it off like there isn't any issue whatsoever. And how people's behavior isn't a problem at all, nor the treatment of others. Yup.

Pffft. And people have the nerve to say I act entitled. Yeah. Okay. Lmao. Riiiiiight. Sure I do. Meanwhile, I'm still out and about to help folks here and there when asked. I'm still forwarding people to sources of information to those curious, and working to help people get gear pieces they're missing. And still coaching folks from the side with VMA clears. Still helping people get CoS and Ruins skins. Even randoms I don't even know, and get them what they seek. And not be a jerk about it. But! Things are so nice and clean, and everything is all honest according to a lot of folks on this thread. Because everything was earned the hard way, and no one got linked up and given shots because of who they knew. Yup. Reeeeeal easy to talk when you're sitting pretty with your Maw skins.

... Meanwhile, a lot of the folks who talk a lot of the stuff here on the forums, and act like nothing is wrong? Are the same people who when their guild masters talk out of line or get disrespect, don't say a word and remain silenced. They don't speak up, and defend nobody when they are watching another guildies get treated poorly. I've seen it for myself, and was rather outspoken in moments like these. Only to result in my removal from certain guilds. Meant nothing to me burning bridges with elites, if they are going to be obnoxious and toxic. I don't care how good you may think you are, and what skin you have. Meanwhile you can't even hold your own solo, but feel special because you rallied 12 folks up and got some content done. Sweet.

Miss_Morphine · January 2017

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I just wonder how many of these "create your own guild" players have actually created their own guild to progress vet trials, and how many of them were invited to join the existing ones.

Personally I was in the guild I'm in for at least a year and a half before I joined a core. It took another what? 2 months of 3 to 6 hours 3 to 5 times a week before I completed. It largely took that long because of the time it took to find dedicated people, by the way.
And I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that the guild I'm in has the largest amount of first clears NA PC. They are wonderful accepting people who work really hard - both of the core teams and our training runs(which have on occasion cleared.)
Moral of the story is it takes work no matter what.
EDIT: Oh and the core team I'm talking about first joining was completely new at the time.

ZOS_Ragnar · January 2017

We have removed some comments from this thread that were off topic and baiting. Please keep your posts civil and constructive.

SuperLarrio · January 2017

I feel like its a little unfair to lump "skinned" players into the elitist category. I have a skin, i spent weeks in mol to get it. Its insulting to say that its as simple as watching a youtube video and simply getting 11 other people to follow the video. If that was the case, everyone should have no problem doing it.

Im an officer of an "end game" guild, we have several clears, we are not a top end competitive guild. We have almost 200 players and 75% of them will never touch vmol. I still run 20-30 normal runs a week with the "noobs" to get them whatever gear they're looking for and several other of our "skinned" guys do as well. If someone gets excited about getting a yokeda chest for his highelf mag sorc tank...we don"t judge

Anyone that joins our guild gets put in a normal trial chat. Anytime an officer is on you can do a slimecraw dps test. 1:15 gets you in the vet chat, 1:05 gets in you in the vmol progression. This doesnt make us elitist, its just the way things work. Go to craglorn text chat and hop in a vmol pug if dps times dont matter...good luck on the very first boss.

And as for our progression runs...if 6-7 "skinned" guys that could easily just run the content with other "skinned" players...sitting at the twins for 4 hours a couple times a week helping other members of our guild try learn the mechanics makes us elitist, then so be it i guess

VampiricByNature · January 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

And no, I wouldn't ever want to join a guild like the council. They USED to be respectable and decent, but now are elitist and snobby to the utmost degree. My stomach churns every time I'm wandering about Elden Root, and I hear about how someone of "the great" GC did this and that. And how they use this build and that be build. It's nauseating. I know people who were in that guild prior to a lot of its changes, and left after seeing what it became. As well as those who wanted entry, but soon wanted nothing to do with them. Why people idolize them, and classify them pros I have no idea.

Why do people "idolize" them? Might be because they're on the top of the leaderboard. All. The. Time. They're the ps4 score to aim for.
Hate them as you want, no one is beating them atm. A few of them are very kind and helpful. I think maybe you're letting a dead flower or two ruin your bouquet.
Some of them are shockingly nice and help other groups with completes and progressions.
Your attitude does not help the community of people reading this. A lot of players are very nervous to join groups and this makes them think horrible thIngs about end game players. Yes, there are elitists. But not all of the best players are elitists. I understand you have had bad experiences and I'm not downplaying that at all. I have many friends in this game that are far superior players to the groups that they play in but have had end-game bad experiences that have soured them. Maybe you would do better forming your own group or finding people slowly that you work well with. But please, don't denigrate the whole community.

kylewwefan · January 2017

Come on man. Look down the leaderboard and see how many times the same names pop up. Yep. We know the council. Like the only tools beating Vet MoL. Don't forget though, they are good. Very good players.

You are only focused on V MoL. There's more scene than that. I can't even get a group through VDSA or V Sanctum. Only one everyone ever wants to run is VHelRa. Not because anyone likes it, they think it's their best chance of beating a vet trial.

I really don't want any more eternal yokeda gold jewelry.

Nifty2g · January 2017

are you saying you DONT want to wipe for 5 hours on the first boss of a trial??? damn elitist

DPShiro · January 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I just wonder how many of these "create your own guild" players have actually created their own guild to progress vet trials, and how many of them were invited to join the existing ones.

You sir win the Internet for the day. That's exactly what I'm thinking. It's reeeeeeal easy to talk as though there is no problem staring straight in front of you, when you're snuggled in tight with the "right" clique of folks. You have your Maw skin, and are in the know of this and that. Reeeeeal easy to come to a thread like this, and play it off like there isn't any issue whatsoever. And how people's behavior isn't a problem at all, nor the treatment of others. Yup.

Pffft. And people have the nerve to say I act entitled. Yeah. Okay. Lmao. Riiiiiight. Sure I do. Meanwhile, I'm still out and about to help folks here and there when asked. I'm still forwarding people to sources of information to those curious, and working to help people get gear pieces they're missing. And still coaching folks from the side with VMA clears. Still helping people get CoS and Ruins skins. Even randoms I don't even know, and get them what they seek. And not be a jerk about it. But! Things are so nice and clean, and everything is all honest according to a lot of folks on this thread. Because everything was earned the hard way, and no one got linked up and given shots because of who they knew. Yup. Reeeeeal easy to talk when you're sitting pretty with your Maw skins.

... Meanwhile, a lot of the folks who talk a lot of the stuff here on the forums, and act like nothing is wrong? Are the same people who when their guild masters talk out of line or get disrespect, don't say a word and remain silenced. They don't speak up, and defend nobody when they are watching another guildies get treated poorly. I've seen it for myself, and was rather outspoken in moments like these. Only to result in my removal from certain guilds. Meant nothing to me burning bridges with elites, if they are going to be obnoxious and toxic. I don't care how good you may think you are, and what skin you have. Meanwhile you can't even hold your own solo, but feel special because you rallied 12 folks up and got some content done. Sweet.

Yeah of course it takes muuuuuch more skills stacking regen and hiding behind pets to solo stuff, don't even matter if it took hours, it's real skills...? LOL!!

Getting and training together with 11 other players, working with each other, trusting everyone to perform their role perfectly all in synchronization. That's skills and dedication.

Nifty2g · January 2017

for some people a guild is a group of friends who only want to play with each other and no one else and work very hard at being the best, everyone helping out, having someone lead and direct the raids but also giving everyone a voice

for others sometimes its about learning, just going to trials playing with others, wanting to do pve and dont mind the others while having 1 person do all the work and leading while the others just listen and do what they are told to do.

for a player to go from group B to A seems very unlikely (it's usually done by friendships), I lead raids from a group A perspective, if someone from group B wanted to join my guild it would most likely be a no, and this isn't from any type of elitist stand point, it's about creating a nice small community. Some people need to realise this, but the amount of self entitlement that people have, I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

Prof_Bawbag · January 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

for some people a guild is a group of friends who only want to play with each other and no one else and work very hard at being the best, everyone helping out, having someone lead and direct the raids but also giving everyone a voice

for others sometimes its about learning, just going to trials playing with others, wanting to do pve and dont mind the others while having 1 person do all the work and leading while the others just listen and do what they are told to do.

for a player to go from group B to A seems very unlikely (it's usually done by friendships), I lead raids from a group A perspective, if someone from group B wanted to join my guild it would most likely be a no, and this isn't from any type of elitist stand point, it's about creating a nice small community. Some people need to realise this, but the amount of self entitlement that people have, I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

You mention it's about creating a nice small community, then go onto insult a number of people by stating self entitlement is rife, like almost as if you're exempt from this human trait. You aren't. Like every other human walking this earth, whether it be in-game or not, you'll have the very same trait as those you're belittling. Don't really come across as being a "nice small community", just filled with people who all think along the same lines as you do.

SuperLarrio · January 2017

I think a bigger problem with the trial community in general is the lack of a middle difficulty level. I run alot of normal trials with players and we try to go over mechanics that they will face in vet...it just doesn't quite work though. Its hard to emphasize mechanics on normal when you just blast a boss in matter of seconds.

Good example, tell people its very important to bash the top boss of helra also block the impulse, its a one shot in vet...the words dont have the same impact on normal difficulty since its nearly impossible to die.

Nifty2g · January 2017

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

for some people a guild is a group of friends who only want to play with each other and no one else and work very hard at being the best, everyone helping out, having someone lead and direct the raids but also giving everyone a voice

for others sometimes its about learning, just going to trials playing with others, wanting to do pve and dont mind the others while having 1 person do all the work and leading while the others just listen and do what they are told to do.

for a player to go from group B to A seems very unlikely (it's usually done by friendships), I lead raids from a group A perspective, if someone from group B wanted to join my guild it would most likely be a no, and this isn't from any type of elitist stand point, it's about creating a nice small community. Some people need to realise this, but the amount of self entitlement that people have, I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

You mention it's about creating a nice small community, then go onto insult a number of people by stating self entitlement is rife, like almost as if you're exempt from this human trait. You aren't. Like every other human walking this earth, whether it be in-game or not, you'll have the very same trait as those you're belittling. Don't really come across as being a "nice small community", just filled with people who all think along the same lines as you do.

lmao what are you on about
lets take my guild for example, we are a group of about 16 people currently, with a few people that come in to fill the spots if it's needed (those few people are from other guilds that they run with). We have currently ran with each other for 6 months now, and plan to keep going for quite some time. Only sign on to really play with each other.

But yet you consider those guys elitist because they don't want to extend their playtime, or don't want to bring in large numbers of people to the guilds?

Self entitlement from those who think others should cater to their needs, now that's the real thing that's ruining the PVE, not everyone needs to do things how you think they should, especially if a group of players are happy just keeping to themselves and enjoy playing the game together.

Pink_Violinz · January 2017

As much as I want to deny all of this, you are for the most part right.

I know a few members from Council, and they shamelessly sell runs. They'll even advertise in chat selling skins left and right. Makes it really frustrating after spending two weeks in that trial only for some slightly richer player to cheese it.

Not to mention, those two weeks were hell. Swapping people in and out, getting yelled at for problems I didn't know I existed, etc. The run I finally got my skin the group didn't realize I was the only one healing, and therefore was getting yelled at when everyone was dying. When ele drain wasn't on every single ad. Meanwhile, the girl was supposed to be healing got laughed off for her mistake after the two hours of wiping on the twins for unknown reasons. I was twitching with stress by the time she switched gear.

My advice? Just don't. The only reason I wear the skin is to hide my ugly vampirism. The titles are just as impressive, just less flashy.

Despite me being skinned, I still get treated like trash in my guild. I plan on leaving as soon as I find a replacement.

Prof_Bawbag · January 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

for some people a guild is a group of friends who only want to play with each other and no one else and work very hard at being the best, everyone helping out, having someone lead and direct the raids but also giving everyone a voice

for others sometimes its about learning, just going to trials playing with others, wanting to do pve and dont mind the others while having 1 person do all the work and leading while the others just listen and do what they are told to do.

for a player to go from group B to A seems very unlikely (it's usually done by friendships), I lead raids from a group A perspective, if someone from group B wanted to join my guild it would most likely be a no, and this isn't from any type of elitist stand point, it's about creating a nice small community. Some people need to realise this, but the amount of self entitlement that people have, I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

You mention it's about creating a nice small community, then go onto insult a number of people by stating self entitlement is rife, like almost as if you're exempt from this human trait. You aren't. Like every other human walking this earth, whether it be in-game or not, you'll have the very same trait as those you're belittling. Don't really come across as being a "nice small community", just filled with people who all think along the same lines as you do.

lmao what are you on about
lets take my guild for example, we are a group of about 16 people currently, with a few people that come in to fill the spots if it's needed (those few people are from other guilds that they run with). We have currently ran with each other for 6 months now, and plan to keep going for quite some time. Only sign on to really play with each other.

But yet you consider those guys elitist because they don't want to extend their playtime, or don't want to bring in large numbers of people to the guilds?

Self entitlement from those who think others should cater to their needs, now that's the real thing that's ruining the PVE, not everyone needs to do things how you think they should, especially if a group of players are happy just keeping to themselves and enjoy playing the game together.

And what are you on about? Please point out where I said you or they were elitist. I called no one anything of the sort. If you're gonna rubbish my argument at least rubbish what I wrote, not what you had hoped I had typed in your head. Nor did I say anything about wanting others to extend their play time for my or the benefit of others. Lmao, lol etc etc indeed. You've basically made up a heap of *** and tried to pass it off as an argument. Seriously, I'm big enough and ugly enough to accept flaws in my arguments, but just don't make *** up because it makes you look better in your own head.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Humatiel wrote: »

I suspect that all we are seeing here is a mixing of "more worldly" gamers coming from other MMOs and people that are raiding for the first time and ESO happens to be there gateway. It would explain a lot of the nonsense about wasting peoples time being acceptable and character testing is a capital offense.

Well, ESO is my first mmo.
I bought it because its a TES game and thought I'd skip all group content... And here I am, just another dromathra destroyer.

I mean, its a game, not rocket science. If you want to get something, you most likely can get it. Its not like you have to be a nolifer or something. The only limitation here is your willingness to improve and to be a team player. Its understandable that most of wont appreciate someone's desire to use them just to get a vMoL skin and then ditch their guild. Of course, its a game, we're playing it for fun. But for some people team progression is fun, and wiping in trials because someone wants to use some super unique build and doesnt pay attention to mechanics... Well, that isnt fun for them, basically. And there seems to be an issue with "I dont care about progression, I just want a skin so I can show off in pugs" crowd. Why one person's "fun" is more important that 11 people's "fun"? I have a feeling that some of these people think that other people arent really people. They dont care about their goals, or motivation, or even fun, they just see them as tools that can be used to reach their own goal...

tunepunk · January 2017

I'm kind of happy I don't really feel the urge to complete vet trials. I did most normal trials so I got my spot in the trials tourist train getting to see the content at least. There's nothing dropping there that I want at the moment anyway, that could help me make my current build better so... not really interested. I'll happily join the guild if their are asking for a hand, but It's not really my cup of tea, and couldn't care less about a skin or highscore listing.

But if you really feel the urge to do vMoL go ahead, but you better prepare to gear up, skill up, and conform to the latest meta, rotation, and dps test and wipe and practice over and over. Not anything I would enjoy though...

OutLaw_Nynx · January 2017

I think people forget that once upon a time people struggled with the craglorn trials.

SuperLarrio · January 2017

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I think people forget that once upon a time people struggled with the craglorn trials.

I remember not that long ago really...sanctum progression runs. "We got ozara down to _____%"..."How many people in here need the ophidan overlord title?"

Anything that has a mechanic outside of stack and burn usually takes a little practice. Only elitists want to put in the work though...lol

Inig0 · January 2017

If you dont have an in to the end game pve community. Make your own guild. Took me 4 months to become a competitive pve guild on pc na. We started as a bunch of pvpers who wanted to make gold from selling sun viper and elegant jewelry/ weapons. Now we are completing vmol hm and pushing #1 scores. It can be done -- you just have to want it enough.

GazHilarant · January 2017

Hey I was in that guilds first VMoL complete.

[*]

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

"Skinned" and "Non-Skinned". The "Non-Skinned" people get treated like ****, and get placed on these strictly timed "progression teams" that really just waste time. And wipe constantly until the time is up for the progression team's "slot", and then at the end give a half-assed speech about how the progress was good.

This guild is primarily people over the age of 18, with full time jobs and other life commitments other than Elder Scrolls Online. When our original run was completed we did 3 hour runs, 2 days of the week until we completed. This consisted of multiple wipes and multiple attempts until everyone was clear on every mechanic.

A Raid Leader giving a "half-assed speech" about good progress is unlikely, any end game progression I have been in would consist of the Raid-Leader ending the progression if 0 progress was being made, letting everyone know what the issues are and remedying them accordingly.

Moglijuana · January 2017

People still PvE in ESO?

ThePaleItalian · January 2017

"Elitists" almost tired of seeing it like I am with "casuals" Even more so when its painted in such a terrible light. I am not saying that some players the title is probably warranted but still doesn't cover the entirety of the community.

I believe I am a really good tank. I tanked in every MMO I ever played and enjoy it quite a bit. Am I meta? No. Am I yellow? No.

But I also do not run around with a bow and resto staff and use the "play anyway I want" card. But here is the issue for me, I will never own the skin or the title.

Reasoning.. My guilds do their runs and have tanks already, same with Pugs. Plus, I do not have the dedicated time to schedule runs. Single dad and #twokidsrulemyworld.

I believe there are some pretty fantastic players out there that will never be given the opportunity for certain titles or achievements because of work, family, time... etc. etc.

Too bad it has to be such extremes... Skinned or UnSkilled... Elitist or Casual...
Just because players do not have the same pixelated skins as you, doesn't mean they are any worse of a player.

Fallewarrior · January 2017

Moglijuana wrote: »

People still PvE in ESO?

People still pvp in this laggy mess that is cyrodill?

The_Duke · January 2017

This is why I PvP only. Lots of elitists there too but I can fly solo if I get tired of the zerg mentality.

Hand_Bacon · January 2017

...'aint no fun if the homies can't have none.

RoyalPink06 · January 2017

I'm with you, Champ. If I'm not mistaken, I think you and I have some guilds in common and I very much see what you are talking about.

There's one guy in one of my other guilds who comes to mind, nicest guy but SUPER elite. I ran a few quick dungeons with him once on the rare occasion he allows himself to play with plebs. I adore him, he's crazy smart, blah blah blah, but I could not believe the things he was discussing with the other dudes in the group. Actually it was kinda like I wasn't even there, since I'm just a pleb who has not even ventured into VMA yet. He and the other dudes were just casually discussing the requirements for vMaw, the other members of their guild who were "progression" and some who they thought were good, they were judging specific players builds and joking about some others, etc. Its mind-boggling how much stats matter and how much math is involved. Most of it went over my head since no one has taken the time to teach me that much yet. So on one hand, I can't say that I blame them for wanting specific stats and skills and rotations because the content is just that difficult.

But I agree, the elitist "better than you because I have such and such title and skin" attitude is a problem. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. I guess we gotta "git gud" or "go home". I personally would never treat anyone as less than, just because I happen to have something they don't, but that's just me.

Anyway, just my 2 cents