Can we have masocore difficulty with vvardenfell?

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Darth_Savage wrote: »

OP, if you are looking for masochismore take a break from ESO and go check out the Dark Souls series. I have never felt such a sense of accomplishment from finishing a game before like I did when I completed those games.

Great suggestion Ashen One/Hunter, but I'm afraid that I've already conquered those games

I'll PM you the next one I plan on tackling.

Perfect example of the point I attempt to make. Once you beat those games, you dont wanna play them anymore.

Should a entire zone be designed for you, which you wont play around a month after release? A dungeon? Or would it be much easier, simpler, better, to create a third difficulty mode made -just- for you, with an entire backlog of content to try it out on? And fairer to other audiences that are -not- hardcore players?

That's my suggestion. Instead of lobbying for masocore content, lobby for a masocore difficulty.

Not really. I spent a ton of time in IC back when it had some difficulty to it, but dungeons I get bored of pretty quickly. Having a difficult open world that you can roam free in is something this game needs, and it maintains its longevity for much longer. Nearly the entire map is catered to casuals. Giving players an adventure zone that's incredibly difficult to solo is long overdue. I need to emphasize though; there needs to be incentives to linger there.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Darth_Savage wrote: »

OP, if you are looking for masochismore take a break from ESO and go check out the Dark Souls series. I have never felt such a sense of accomplishment from finishing a game before like I did when I completed those games.

Great suggestion Ashen One/Hunter, but I'm afraid that I've already conquered those games

I'll PM you the next one I plan on tackling.

Perfect example of the point I attempt to make. Once you beat those games, you dont wanna play them anymore.

Should a entire zone be designed for you, which you wont play around a month after release? A dungeon? Or would it be much easier, simpler, better, to create a third difficulty mode made -just- for you, with an entire backlog of content to try it out on? And fairer to other audiences that are -not- hardcore players?

That's my suggestion. Instead of lobbying for masocore content, lobby for a masocore difficulty.

Not really. I spent a ton of time in IC back when it had some difficulty to it, but dungeons I get bored of pretty quickly. Having a difficult open world that you can roam free in is something this game needs, and it maintains its longevity for much longer. Nearly the entire map is catered to casuals. Giving players an adventure zone that's incredibly difficult to solo is long overdue. I need to emphasize though; there needs to be incentives to linger there.

Craglorn was that. Craglorn eventually became barren. In fact it was such a collossal failure, that what was going to be it's successor, Murkmire, was likely put on hold or scrapped, with assets semi made to not be a waste of effort.

I doubt that a motif would be enough incentive and I doubt people would keep going back. I'm sorry but no.

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Darth_Savage wrote: »

OP, if you are looking for masochismore take a break from ESO and go check out the Dark Souls series. I have never felt such a sense of accomplishment from finishing a game before like I did when I completed those games.

Great suggestion Ashen One/Hunter, but I'm afraid that I've already conquered those games

I'll PM you the next one I plan on tackling.

Perfect example of the point I attempt to make. Once you beat those games, you dont wanna play them anymore.

Should a entire zone be designed for you, which you wont play around a month after release? A dungeon? Or would it be much easier, simpler, better, to create a third difficulty mode made -just- for you, with an entire backlog of content to try it out on? And fairer to other audiences that are -not- hardcore players?

That's my suggestion. Instead of lobbying for masocore content, lobby for a masocore difficulty.

Not really. I spent a ton of time in IC back when it had some difficulty to it, but dungeons I get bored of pretty quickly. Having a difficult open world that you can roam free in is something this game needs, and it maintains its longevity for much longer. Nearly the entire map is catered to casuals. Giving players an adventure zone that's incredibly difficult to solo is long overdue. I need to emphasize though; there needs to be incentives to linger there.

Craglorn was that. Craglorn eventually became barren.

I doubt that a motif would be enough incentive and I doubt people would keep going back. I'm sorry but no.

Craglorn lacked incentives. Motifs have been useless since One Tamriel btw. IC has incentives which is why is was great back in the day.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Darth_Savage wrote: »

OP, if you are looking for masochismore take a break from ESO and go check out the Dark Souls series. I have never felt such a sense of accomplishment from finishing a game before like I did when I completed those games.

Great suggestion Ashen One/Hunter, but I'm afraid that I've already conquered those games

I'll PM you the next one I plan on tackling.

Perfect example of the point I attempt to make. Once you beat those games, you dont wanna play them anymore.

Should a entire zone be designed for you, which you wont play around a month after release? A dungeon? Or would it be much easier, simpler, better, to create a third difficulty mode made -just- for you, with an entire backlog of content to try it out on? And fairer to other audiences that are -not- hardcore players?

That's my suggestion. Instead of lobbying for masocore content, lobby for a masocore difficulty.

Not really. I spent a ton of time in IC back when it had some difficulty to it, but dungeons I get bored of pretty quickly. Having a difficult open world that you can roam free in is something this game needs, and it maintains its longevity for much longer. Nearly the entire map is catered to casuals. Giving players an adventure zone that's incredibly difficult to solo is long overdue. I need to emphasize though; there needs to be incentives to linger there.

Craglorn was that. Craglorn eventually became barren.

I doubt that a motif would be enough incentive and I doubt people would keep going back. I'm sorry but no.

Craglorn lacked incentives. Motifs have been useless since One Tamriel btw. IC has incentives which is why is was great back in the day.

I''ll have to disagree. All I see is another effort to try and please the hardcore crowd, which will fail and please no one. Again.

Whatever.

acw37162 · January 2017

Hell No, those palaces turn into ghost towns as soon as people get what they want.

And then newer players never get to experience the content as they progress through the game until year later the developers free up some time to redo the zone.

This game has more then enough toxic content with VMOL and VMA to keep the 5% ers happy.

Since you obviously were not paying attention the only time Old Craglorn and IC were actually populated was when they did events with shinny new things to drive traffic there, almost any other time they are ghost towns.

Terrible and I do mean terrible idea so they will probabaly do it.

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Darth_Savage wrote: »

OP, if you are looking for masochismore take a break from ESO and go check out the Dark Souls series. I have never felt such a sense of accomplishment from finishing a game before like I did when I completed those games.

Great suggestion Ashen One/Hunter, but I'm afraid that I've already conquered those games

I'll PM you the next one I plan on tackling.

Perfect example of the point I attempt to make. Once you beat those games, you dont wanna play them anymore.

Should a entire zone be designed for you, which you wont play around a month after release? A dungeon? Or would it be much easier, simpler, better, to create a third difficulty mode made -just- for you, with an entire backlog of content to try it out on? And fairer to other audiences that are -not- hardcore players?

That's my suggestion. Instead of lobbying for masocore content, lobby for a masocore difficulty.

Not really. I spent a ton of time in IC back when it had some difficulty to it, but dungeons I get bored of pretty quickly. Having a difficult open world that you can roam free in is something this game needs, and it maintains its longevity for much longer. Nearly the entire map is catered to casuals. Giving players an adventure zone that's incredibly difficult to solo is long overdue. I need to emphasize though; there needs to be incentives to linger there.

Craglorn was that. Craglorn eventually became barren.

I doubt that a motif would be enough incentive and I doubt people would keep going back. I'm sorry but no.

Craglorn lacked incentives. Motifs have been useless since One Tamriel btw. IC has incentives which is why is was great back in the day.

I''ll have to disagree. All I see is another effort to try and please the hardcore crowd, which will fail and please no one. Again.

Whatever.

K.

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

acw37162 wrote: »

Hell No, those palaces turn into ghost towns as soon as people get what they want.

And then newer players never get to experience the content as they progress through the game until year later the developers free up some time to redo the zone.

This game has more then enough toxic content with VMOL and VMA to keep the 5% ers happy.

Since you obviously were not paying attention the only time Old Craglorn and IC were actually populated was when they did events with shinny new things to drive traffic there, almost any other time they are ghost towns.

Terrible and I do mean terrible idea so they will probabaly do it.

Actually IC was more populated before it was nerfed. It's true the busiest it ever got was during its launch, and anniversary. But it was simply more active throughout before it was nerfed. Now people just farm district bosses, and that's it.

Ravena · January 2017

No. Get outta here. I wanna be a happy casual.

Chadak · January 2017

'Masocore' difficulty?

Sounds like it would hold no appeal what so ever to the vast majority of players, and certainly holds no appeal what so ever to me.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

No.

You have Maelstrom Arena, VMOL, Shadows of the hist, and all repeatable content for the past year geared toward the hardcore player. And all but VMOL, geared toward raiders has been forgotten or universally reviled. Do I want all the content to be *** easy? No, but I'm tired of geting virtually ignored by a dev team only lisening to people who want the game to be difficult, despite whether or not the difficult content is designed -well-.

Lets be honest, if you loved 2014 Craglorn you'd have played it when it was difficult.

Stop the imperialism and greed. If this does have dungeons, let them be casual dungeons. Your not cool by demanding difficulty. And quite frankly, I'll take interesting, memorable, and fun over difficult any day. This game has suffered too long by lisening to these players who are willing to sacrifice -fun-, even other players fun, for the sake of success and having that success mean something.

What game are you playing? If the dev team listed to the people that wanted this game to be difficult, then we would not have had blanket nerfs to virtually every piece of content over the last 2 years. Craglorn? Nefed. ICP and WGT? Nerfed so hard its laughable. Every gold and silver Zone? Dont get me started. There are two difficult pieces of content left in this game, VMOL-HM and VMA. By difficult, I mean it takes progression. SOTH dungeons are tricky, but most people that are properly built will clear on their first or second run.

By "properly built" you mean broken build, exploiting an imbalance in the game. I keep hearing people complaining about nerfs... when really what's happening is the build they found exploited an imbalance in the game that wasn't intended and was fixed... not nerfed. So now you end up being balanced and you call it a nerf because you don't feel all powerful... They nerf stuff that is out of spec with the rest of the abilities...as in not balanced and over performing compared to the other abilities.

@trbrelinskib14_ESO

By "properly built" I mean using a gear setup and skills that actually compliment one another and are suited to the role you chose. I don't know where you are getting all this stuff about builds exploiting a game imbalance. This has nothing to do with the actual nerfs to the content, things having less health and/or doing less damage, thus making them easier to complete. This is exactly what happened to VWGT and VICP. Right or wrong, these dungeons have had their difficulty changed by the developers. If you run them with the exact same build now as you did a year ago, they are much easier to clear now. Almost nothing in these dungeons can one-shot you anymore. A lot of people I know, myself included, wishes they wouldnt have done that, but rather, added a middle ground for difficulty.

@Doctordarkspawn

I really dont think much productive will ever come from our discussions, but we obviously disagree about where we would like things from a difficulty standpoint. I don't know if I am a massochist, (looking at the title), but I prefer content that can't be cleared the first time your run it. VMA probably took me 15-20 hours to clear the first time. VMOL, 1-2 months, VMOL HM about 4 months. Some people enjoy the progression, others do not. Neither group is correct, which is why I think ZOS should do a better job of having both more difficulty levels and preparing players to step up in difficulty. One of the biggest problems we have in ESO in my opinion is that there is too much of a power gap between normal and vet mode.

In any event, however, there are two points I would like to make. First, I don't see how players like myself hoping that the vet content be challenging affects you in the slightest. There is a face roll mode, its called normal. Second, I am the second person that you declared "unfit" whatever that means to comment on a topic because we didnt agree with you. Not the way to win an argument, but apparently a decent way to have your posts removed on the forums.

Edit: Also, I know lots of RPers that like to ride around and look at the scenery. This game is beautiful, and you will never hear me suggest this is a bad thing, but I also dont necessarily think that all overland content should be trivial to clear.

Designing things to one shot you is ridiculous design period.

I guess we disagree on this point. There is nothing in this game that will one shot you if you follow mechanics properly. IMO, removing one-shots just encourages poor strategy and gameplay. Video games have been using one-shots as part of a basic game design for decades. I actually think this is one of the big problems we have in ESO. You have overland content and normal dungeons that are so easy, they don't prepare you for vet. If things like standing in red would actually get you killed once in a while on Normal, people might not do it when they try vet. Instead, people go into content unprepared, have bad time, and assume anyone that can do it with ease is exploiting in some way.

Which is why I will say it again. I do not want the overland to be necessarily at masochist level, but I wouldn't mind if they stepped it up a notch or two from what we currently have. I also think that a third tier of dungeon difficulty is probably in order.

Jimbullbee85 · January 2017

Personally I prefer the difficulty they've set with the latest patch. When I want to chill out and do things at my own pace I go questing. If I want to do something more challenging I do a trial or go into pvp or try run around with a friend or two taking down world bosses (which are much more difficult everywhere). It's good to have those options in a game IMO.

Cinbri · January 2017

I not against masocore difficult in Vvardenfell only if it solo/duo content. Searching entire raid to do something worth in PvE is annoying. Don't want rely of team while doing something for own pve enjoyment.
Would like something like super hard maelstrom-like arena for 2-3 people. We had solo arena, we had several 12-raid trials, we had 4-man group arena, time for duo/trio, since Vvardenfell is nostalgic as solo exploration.

Mr_Apollo · January 2017

I would love to have some actually hard content brought to this game (perhaps not Craglorn 1.0 since it was kinda made to play in groups and then changed to hug solo players), I want some actual solo content that challenges you for once, Maelstorm Arena is quite easy to beat after you get the first clear. I want to feel the thrill and yes, get mad at the game, to actually be pushed forward to finish that area. Challenge is always appreciated, and to those who do not want to be challenged..well...just don't go or sneak your path

Digiman · January 2017

Meh, that kind of difficulty will force the game into an eternal grind ruining it as a daily zone, so long as they keep the boss camps challenging I am happy.

Masocore is just stupid because it means large health pools and long fights, not challenging ones.

Mr_Apollo · January 2017

Digiman wrote: »

Meh, that kind of difficulty will force the game into an eternal grind ruining it as a daily zone, so long as they keep the boss camps challenging I am happy.

Masocore is just stupid because it means large health pools and long fights, not challenging ones.

Not really, he meant it as a much more difficult type of enemies that actually challenge you.

And please...the whole game is a grind. Besides, if Vvardenfell DOES come, then youll be doing the quests rather than *grind it*

Digiman · January 2017

Mr_Apollo wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Meh, that kind of difficulty will force the game into an eternal grind ruining it as a daily zone, so long as they keep the boss camps challenging I am happy.

Masocore is just stupid because it means large health pools and long fights, not challenging ones.

Not really, he meant it as a much more difficult type of enemies that actually challenge you.

And please...the whole game is a grind. Besides, if Vvardenfell DOES come, then youll be doing the quests rather than *grind it*

Doesn't world boss camps have that?

Mr_Apollo · January 2017

Digiman wrote: »

Mr_Apollo wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Meh, that kind of difficulty will force the game into an eternal grind ruining it as a daily zone, so long as they keep the boss camps challenging I am happy.

Masocore is just stupid because it means large health pools and long fights, not challenging ones.

Not really, he meant it as a much more difficult type of enemies that actually challenge you.

And please...the whole game is a grind. Besides, if Vvardenfell DOES come, then youll be doing the quests rather than *grind it*

Doesn't world boss camps have that?

Not enough, sure, they can entertain you for a few hours, but then what? An actual new zone will give you so much more time due to exploring, questing, completing 100% of everything (which is something I like to do)

M0bi · January 2017

I would really like to see a zone where you have to think twice before engaging a mob. For instance if you want to get somewhere fast, come across a mob, and think *Let's just try sneak past instead*, because YOU KNOW you will be there for some time trying to clear the mob.

MattT1988 · January 2017

Ideally this is how I'd like it:

Overland: harder then current overland vanilla content but not as hard as original Craglorn. World bosses a little bit harder then what we have now in Orsinium/Hew's Bane/Gold Coast.

Dungeons: on Shadow of the Hist level of difficulty.

Trials: I haven't done any vet trials so I can't really comment, but judging from what people have said I'm guessing something on Maw's level might be ideal.

Something for everybody.......well as far as pve goes......

Enslaved · January 2017

Only way to satisfy OP's wish to play Elder Dark Souls Online is for Zos to introduce a zone difficulty adjustment option. Similar as we have with dungeons, normal and veteran mode. But I think Zos will never do that. On the other hand, that would be amazing way to hunt for gold jewelry, and sell them for large amounts of coin.

Franieck · January 2017

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

Franieck wrote: »

I agree, Solo content becomes ridiculously easy after you hit CP 160+ and have decent gear... I run around with Julianos + Willpower + Seducer sets and it's literally impossible to die during quests
It would be nice to go through the story and feel challenged by each battle (specially bosses)!

I have no desire to die while doing a basic quest. It's the story I'm more interested in. Sure, make the bosses in quests maybe a bit tougher, but this is a RPG not some Rogue game. If I want that experience then I'll play a different game... And I never play those.

Ultimately, it's a numbers game... If the majority of players want the game to be exploration/story/social, then that is what the devs will develop for. The hardcore "I must die if I miss one millisecond in activating that ability" crowd is a pretty small size compared to the overall population of who plays the game.

Well, sure...Nevertheless, I'm not sure whether you understood what I meant or whether I didn't express myself clear enough... What I mean is that the difficulty could at least be like Adept/Expert in Skyrim. I'm not necessarily for Hardcore difficulty, but you gotta admit that one shotting ads and killing every boss without ever being close to death is just no fun at all. Let me put it in another way: if you ever played another Elder scrolls game (and I'm assuming you have), Single Player quests right now would be the equivalent to God mode Cheat for every player past 160 CP with decent gear. I'm also assuming you enjoyed to play elder scrolls without using cheats.
WIth that said, "Ultimately, it's a numbers game... If the majority of players want the game to be exploration/story/social, then that is what the devs will develop for. " I completely agree with that and that is why I think people like me, OP and yourself can find a middle ground between enjoying lore while at the same time feeling challenged in a positive way.
There may be various ideas to solve this problem in a way that is beneficial and caters to everybody. (out of the top of my hat I could think about a mechanic that makes single player harder for everyone with CP160 purple gear)

kyle.wilson · January 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Fore those wondering what "masocore" means; it is a combination of masochism, and hardcore.

There are websites better suited to give you that kind of content, though they may or may not ask for a Credit Card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLPLQowwm-I

kamimark · January 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Can we have a zone that actually challenges us again?
Fore those wondering what "masocore" means; it is a combination of masochism, and hardcore.

Challenge levels:

1. Remove all armor except pants.
2. Also remove pants (kindly wear a costume if you're a filthy Orc or Human).
3. Use only white-quality non-set weapons.
4. Do not use class or guild skills.
5. Do not use weapon skills.
6. Do not use passives.

If you can beat any content at that last level, the zones and dungeons should be made tougher.

Cadbury · January 2017

Permadeath mode.

Problem solved.

Enslaved · January 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

Permadeath mode.

Problem solved.

Strongly against any permadeath in any connection/lag/ping dependent game.

Cadbury · January 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Permadeath mode.

Problem solved.

Strongly against any permadeath in any connection/lag/ping dependent game.

Wizardry Online was the closest we had to an MMO with permadeath. Sadly, it shut down a year after its English debut.

ArchMikem · January 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

People that don't want to feel challenged should read a book rather than play a game. Games maintain attention by providing incentives, and challenging you. The PvE content in this game just makes you yawn.

Video Games were designed for recreation and entertainment, not challenge. It's because of your kind of viewpoint on Gaming that Rage Quit exists.

Mrs_Malaka · January 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

Krunkcore and Nightcore are better

^ this sounds like one of those special Ben & Jerry's ice creams

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

People that don't want to feel challenged should read a book rather than play a game. Games maintain attention by providing incentives, and challenging you. The PvE content in this game just makes you yawn.

Video Games were designed for recreation and entertainment, not challenge. It's because of your kind of viewpoint on Gaming that Rage Quit exists.

You're incorrect. They were created to be entertaining, but the entertainment is derived from the challenge. That's why games like Pacman had escalating difficulty the further you went. People like to be challenged, and they like competition. Playing ESO is like being stuck on stage one on Pacman.

kylewwefan · January 2017

I like the idea of an overland difficulty slider. Especially the more gold and legendary upgrade mats possibility.