Balance shields properly zos hear me out

Massive_Stain · January 2017

Was this thread created out of spell power envy?

hassubhai · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ur suppose to die if outnumbered

Not against players of a significantly lower skill level

hassubhai · January 2017

Massive_Stain wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Lol, harness and hardened shield doesn´t need a nerf, or fix for that matter. They are in a fine place atm.

Isnt that like me saying "proc sets are in a fine place atm and dont need changes" aside from the statement being very wrong you should provide some explanation for your answer dont you think?

Someone's hating on sorcs again.. That's the true meta.

I actually have aroynd 70 days on magsorc and spent atleast 80% of my pvp time on magsorc. I love sorc i just want it to be balanced properly (a bit stronger at 1vX, and a little weaker at 1v1)

hassubhai · January 2017

Massive_Stain wrote: »

Was this thread created out of spell power envy?

Idk maybe you misunderstood the purpose of my post?

Derra · January 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

Pirate skeleton gives shields an insane 1vX scaling coefficient. Shields are far more consistent and effective than dodge rolling, which not only has a cost stack but does absolutely nothing to mitigate the most prevalent and dangerous attacks in the game. In contrast, there is only 1 enchant and 1 armour set that can do anything to ignore the massive artificial health points provided by damage shields.

See how effective dodge rolling is vs a Grothdarr/Sweeps templar compared to a build using Harness Magicka. To be perfectly honest shields need cost stacking if they are reapplied over an existing shield. MagSorc is going to 100% be the meta in the Homestead patch when the unrivalled strengths of Pirate Skeleton and Dark Conversion are fully understood by the community. Add onto that 13% more powerful 15% cheaper Execute-proccing Eye of Lightning and non-magsorcs should ready themselves to be in for a seriously bad time.

Update 13 - sorcs rule supreme in PvE and PvP.

Actually, without any direct "nerf sorc" implication, I wholeheartedly agree with the guy in regards to what class I predict to be at the top of the foodchain (together with mag dks), for the same reasons, basically. I think hes spot on.

Wait you agree with shields having a cost increase when reapplied over and existing shield?

cheemers · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

Pirate skeleton gives shields an insane 1vX scaling coefficient. Shields are far more consistent and effective than dodge rolling, which not only has a cost stack but does absolutely nothing to mitigate the most prevalent and dangerous attacks in the game. In contrast, there is only 1 enchant and 1 armour set that can do anything to ignore the massive artificial health points provided by damage shields.

See how effective dodge rolling is vs a Grothdarr/Sweeps templar compared to a build using Harness Magicka. To be perfectly honest shields need cost stacking if they are reapplied over an existing shield. MagSorc is going to 100% be the meta in the Homestead patch when the unrivalled strengths of Pirate Skeleton and Dark Conversion are fully understood by the community. Add onto that 13% more powerful 15% cheaper Execute-proccing Eye of Lightning and non-magsorcs should ready themselves to be in for a seriously bad time.

Update 13 - sorcs rule supreme in PvE and PvP.

So pirate skeleton and harness magica are too good - nerf sorcs?

I didn't suggest to nerf sorcs at any point during my post. I said that they will be the dominant class next patch, and that the health of the game overall would be improved if repetitive shield stacking had a similar cost stack just like the medium armour defensive ability. That's a 'change shield mechanics' suggestion as is the topic of this thread, not 'nerf sorcs'.

cheemers · January 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

Pirate skeleton gives shields an insane 1vX scaling coefficient. Shields are far more consistent and effective than dodge rolling, which not only has a cost stack but does absolutely nothing to mitigate the most prevalent and dangerous attacks in the game. In contrast, there is only 1 enchant and 1 armour set that can do anything to ignore the massive artificial health points provided by damage shields.

See how effective dodge rolling is vs a Grothdarr/Sweeps templar compared to a build using Harness Magicka. To be perfectly honest shields need cost stacking if they are reapplied over an existing shield. MagSorc is going to 100% be the meta in the Homestead patch when the unrivalled strengths of Pirate Skeleton and Dark Conversion are fully understood by the community. Add onto that 13% more powerful 15% cheaper Execute-proccing Eye of Lightning and non-magsorcs should ready themselves to be in for a seriously bad time.

Update 13 - sorcs rule supreme in PvE and PvP.

Actually, without any direct "nerf sorc" implication, I wholeheartedly agree with the guy in regards to what class I predict to be at the top of the foodchain (together with mag dks), for the same reasons, basically. I think hes spot on.

Thank you, but I'm not implying that sorcs need a nerf. Everyone is too quick to jump to attack or defend a particular class or playstyle. I'm saying that it's quite evident in both PvE and PvP that the damage shield stacking noticeably overperforms compared to other defensive options.

My suggestion would affect someone spamming a single harness magicka over and over or a single healing ward over and over as much as it would affect a triple shield stacker.

idk · January 2017

hassubhai wrote: »

There are a lot of issues with shields, namely: hardened ward, harness magicka.

I feel like the main issue with shields is the fact that in a 1v1 fight they are extremely good maybe even overpowered slightly. You can easily stack them and make yourself insanely difficult to kill. Even in a 2v1 its still sustainable to keep alive with shields.

But then when it comes to a 3 or 4v1 depending on the damage output of the enemy players, shields become pretty crappy and it feels like when you play a magicka sorc that you are very limited in your outplay potential because your survivability relies so much on shields.

I think zos should find a way to make them less effective in 1v1 fights but make them still relevant in 1vX fights.

To compare shields to other survivablity mechanics, shields is far weaker when used in a 1vX situation. The reason for this is that other survivability mechanics are designed in such a way that they are just as effective in a 1v1 and 1vX, an example of these defense mechanics im referring to is things like dodge roll, blocking/mtigating, even healing seems to be alot more effective than shields.

What do you guys think about the points ive raised would love to hear your opinions

Suitability is much more than just shields and dodge rolls. Additionally, the shields that are based off max magika, which are good as they are, should be a constant. Again, it is not the only defense available.

psychotic13 · January 2017

I'm a sorc, shields are fine. If you have 4 decent players attacking you, you should be dead.

Derra · January 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

I'm not sure it's a shield or even a Mag Sorc specific problem.

Damage potential is just way too high atm. You can oneshot ppl from stealth with even using full-fledged ganking setups. It's a joke.

Also worth noting that the proc set nerf will have zero effect on helping Magicka Sorc survivability Shields cannot be critically hit, but have 0 resistance as a balance. This causes damage creeps to be much more noticeable vs shields as well.

I would hope for a duration buff on Conjured Ward to promote not casting shields every 5sec over a strength or other type of buff. The damage creep is the main issue, as we don't get %damage reduction via resistances to counteract it (as we almost solely rely on shields).

This is one of my main concerns for the next patch.

The dmg creep is real on shields. I can hardly see myself not using harness considering a sorc going from grothdarr to slimecraw and possibly respeccing crushing to pulse will see ~ 15% singletarget dmg increase and a ~28% dmg increase on their anytime filler.

I´ve been getting along with 10k worth of spammable shield relatively fine but i can´t see that working out next patch anymore.

Derra · January 2017

cheemers wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

Pirate skeleton gives shields an insane 1vX scaling coefficient. Shields are far more consistent and effective than dodge rolling, which not only has a cost stack but does absolutely nothing to mitigate the most prevalent and dangerous attacks in the game. In contrast, there is only 1 enchant and 1 armour set that can do anything to ignore the massive artificial health points provided by damage shields.

See how effective dodge rolling is vs a Grothdarr/Sweeps templar compared to a build using Harness Magicka. To be perfectly honest shields need cost stacking if they are reapplied over an existing shield. MagSorc is going to 100% be the meta in the Homestead patch when the unrivalled strengths of Pirate Skeleton and Dark Conversion are fully understood by the community. Add onto that 13% more powerful 15% cheaper Execute-proccing Eye of Lightning and non-magsorcs should ready themselves to be in for a seriously bad time.

Update 13 - sorcs rule supreme in PvE and PvP.

So pirate skeleton and harness magica are too good - nerf sorcs?

I didn't suggest to nerf sorcs at any point during my post. I said that they will be the dominant class next patch, and that the health of the game overall would be improved if repetitive shield stacking had a similar cost stack just like the medium armour defensive ability. That's a 'change shield mechanics' suggestion as is the topic of this thread, not 'nerf sorcs'.

The problem is your proposed change would absolutely wreck anyone only utilizing one shield while promoting stacking harness + hardened.

Stacking those two is so prevalent that people make absolutely half-baked proposals on shield changes without taking into account that there´s actually people:
1. not stacking harness and hardened (you can not avoid healing ward - it´s not possible while keeping an effective build i´ve tried)
2. not playing with 45k+ magica

In that scenario shields work like a strong selfheal without actually healing you. Do you think bol needs coststacking too when used over 50% health?

And on top of that all of the proposed changes i read actually would make shieldstacking absolutely mandatory (cost stack for reapplication, not being able to refresh shields etc pp).
All of this leads to alternating between two or three shields. It devalues only using one shield. It promotes exactly the playstyle you want to get rid of.

The only thing changes like this would achieve is bad players having a harder time utilizing sorcs.

hassubhai · February 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

I'm a sorc, shields are fine. If you have 4 decent players attacking you, you should be dead.

But if i play any stam class against 4 people i can 1vX just fine and have a much better chance at surviving and killing everyone around my as opposed to if i play magsorc, i have a better chance even if im on magplar or even magdk for that matter

patrykplawskib16_ESO · February 2017

Does anyone take into consideration also what will happen to PvE if they were to do some nerfing ? would people be able to complete trial HM runs ? Would people be able to do 3 man dps groups for vet pledges, this is toward the little amount of tanks there are in the game and how long it takes to form a group sometimes ? Sustain is already an issue for some dps classes and having shields cost more per cast would just well diminish resources like no tmw ? When making these threads please stop thinking only about PvP just cause you can't kill someone its already harmed PvE allot with these ridiculous PvP changes, start to consider both PvE and PvP to make both player bases happy.

kyle.wilson · February 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

With sorcs mobility you mean that cost increasing skill that doesn't even bring you out of gap closer range?

Its even more awesome when you've got 10stam builds spamming stampede on you. You'll never break the stun long enough to clear the range of the gap closer.

g00gleyes · February 2017

maybe something like diminishing returns?
hardened ward gives 20% damage resist.
stacking another shield gives 30% total resist.

it would still be stronk with major protection though so idk. since someone told me damage stacks multiplicatively I'm guessing resist does too. 1.3 shield times 1.3 major prot would be 70% lol. to balance we would have to nerf major prot uptime and maybe gut it from some things that grant it and give them minor prot instead. then theres the vamp skill that gives 75% damage reduction!

kyle.wilson · February 2017

cheemers wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

Pirate skeleton gives shields an insane 1vX scaling coefficient. Shields are far more consistent and effective than dodge rolling, which not only has a cost stack but does absolutely nothing to mitigate the most prevalent and dangerous attacks in the game. In contrast, there is only 1 enchant and 1 armour set that can do anything to ignore the massive artificial health points provided by damage shields.

See how effective dodge rolling is vs a Grothdarr/Sweeps templar compared to a build using Harness Magicka. To be perfectly honest shields need cost stacking if they are reapplied over an existing shield. MagSorc is going to 100% be the meta in the Homestead patch when the unrivalled strengths of Pirate Skeleton and Dark Conversion are fully understood by the community. Add onto that 13% more powerful 15% cheaper Execute-proccing Eye of Lightning and non-magsorcs should ready themselves to be in for a seriously bad time.

Update 13 - sorcs rule supreme in PvE and PvP.

So pirate skeleton and harness magica are too good - nerf sorcs?

I didn't suggest to nerf sorcs at any point during my post. I said that they will be the dominant class next patch, and that the health of the game overall would be improved if repetitive shield stacking had a similar cost stack just like the medium armour defensive ability. That's a 'change shield mechanics' suggestion as is the topic of this thread, not 'nerf sorcs'.

I don't think that magsorcs are going to be that dominant. A bunch of magplars and magnb with eots would be better in the ball groups.
Almost every magicka class has access to 2 spamable shield.