Is this action against TOS?

arena25 · January 2017

Ok, allow me to elaborate, and I apologize in advance for the wall of text.

Earlier, I was fishing in Stros M'kai, trying to catch the rare fish (and failing miserably). Out of nowhere, some random dude comes up, stands behind me, and begins to play various instrument emotes.

Now, initially, I thought the dude was just trying to lighten up my day. However, today I wanted to be left alone with my thoughts (I had a rough week at college, after getting sick at the beginning of the week) so after I catched my fish (and it was not the rare), I whispered to him, "Can I help you?"

He proceeded to draw his sword, and run about.

This process repeated several times, as he creepily stood behind me, playing instruments, and sometimes even stood in front of me, trying to interrupt my fishing.

Eventually, I whispered to him "What are you doing?" And he replied, "I'm fishing here." So I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, move to another fishing pool down a little ways, and restart.

I turned to make sure he wasn't following me, and he was doing pushups in the fishing hole I was at previously (I wish doing emotes at fishing hole will automatically disable them for added realism of "Scaring the fish away".)

So i continue to fish, and then after 2 fleeting minutes of peace, he then goes to my position, stands behind me, and starts dancing like a maniac.

Now, at this point, I was tired of his emotes annoying me, so after catching the fish, I turned and challenged him to a duel to let him know I'm serious about his annoying me. He accepted...and promptly fled.

So, I'm currently wondering if any or all of these actions are against TOS (I'm not a lawyer or even a law student, so I don't spend hours upon hours reading TOS):

-Inappropriate username or character name (there were religious references in his character name, in addition to a UserID that was...slightly questionable, even for an M for Mature game such as this).
-Standing behind me acting like a creep.
-Being annoying with emotes and affecting people's fun.
-Minor trolling and minor harrassing with fishing and emotes

I don't want to file a ticket against this guy, but when I tried to explain to him his behavior is annoying, he ignored me in chat. I'm very close to filing a ticket on this guy, and I'd rather make a report that actually has substance (I do not believe in frivolous tickets.). So, I'm wondering if the 4 reasons above can be filed in a ticket. His behavior is annoying, and as i said, I want to be left alone today.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thank you all.

Arena25

Chrysa1is · January 2017

I'd have logged out, waited a few seconds, and then logged back in and hopefully find him gone.

Unfortunately there are players like this. Seems if his username was questionable then its clear he/she is just a troll with nothing better to do. Personally I wouldn't bite because he's wasting his time ultimately.

Definitely report if you feel you were targeted and if you were offended. Sadly, no action is most likely to be taken because we all get ignored when we press report, happens with everything.

redspecter23 · January 2017

Being an annoying idiot isn't against the TOS unfortunately. If you ask for any help from ZOS you'll get a standard reply telling you to put the player on ignore, which won't help 90% of what he's doing to you.

starkerealm · January 2017

arena25 wrote: »

-Inappropriate username or character name (there were religious references in his character name, in addition to a UserID that was...slightly questionable, even for an M for Mature game such as this).

That's usually grounds for reporting.

For what it's worth, I usually just wander off to a wayshrine and go someplace else, if someone's pestering me, and ignore (though not /ignore) them if they keep whispering.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2017

Is stealing my bicycle against the law ? Yes.
Is the police going to do anything about my bicycle if I report to them ? No, because they have bigger fish to fry.

That's pretty much the situation you're in - Except I cannot get my bicycle back, but you can get your tranquility back by just going fishing in another area.

I agree it's unfair that you have to move, but that's the easy and efficient way out.

Turelus · January 2017

Generally as others have said just move on, fish in another zone and come back another time, hopefully they would have moved on.

Thee main thing to do is not show any signs that you've been annoyed by what they're doing as this will only encourage them as they're now laughing at it.

If the player really hounds you (follows you around Tamriel, deliberately pestering you) then you might have grounds to file a ticket under harassment. However ZOS would expect you to take your own steps to solving it first (blocks, changing zones etc.)

arena25 · January 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Is stealing my bicycle against the law ? Yes.
Is the police going to do anything about my bicycle if I report to them ? No, because they have bigger fish to fry.

That's pretty much the situation you're in - Except I cannot get my bicycle back, but you can get your tranquility back by just going fishing in another area.

I agree it's unfair that you have to move, but that's the easy and efficient way out.

Except when I did move, he followed me and continued to be a creep.

Let me repeat what I just posted...if you try to follow me for a exceedingly long distance for no apparent real reason, I say that unless you're a cop in uniform serving an arrest warrant, you are not following me because you want to be my friend. And I will use whatever is at my disposal (calling police, subduing the guy with my self-defense skills, or otherwise) to make sure you are aware of that.

When i was 7, my sister, two friends, and myself were nearly kidnapped by a guy in a dark Jeep. I'm still scarred by the incident, 11 years later.

This is why that if you're a stranger and you try and follow me for a long distance, unless you're a cop, you have relinquished your chance to be my friend, and I will do whatever it takes to shake you off, even if it means I have to K.O. you and then call the police.

I'll be back later when I can be bothered.

TheShadowScout · January 2017

arena25 wrote: »

Is this action against TOS? ...

Technically harrassing others is against the code of conduct (you can read up on it from the link at the bottom of any of the pages here). Following someone and playing emotes that have no other reason as to mess with them would definitely qualify.
If you are not sure about it, you can always message them and ask them nicely to leave you alone - if they persist, you have grounds to report them.

Will it do any good? Maybe, but usually its not very likely unless they really, really make a habit of being an as... uhm... person of questionable character, towards many people, thos piling up a number of reports.

Personally I always prefer to just log out, switch to an alt, and game elsewhere in Tamriel. Like, there are many, many rare fish in many places... and while they can follow you to the next fishing hole, they generally would be a bit stumped by any form of fast travel and wander off to vex someone else.

But I find it always better not to waste any energy on those 'people' (and I am using that term loosely when that kind of meatbag is concerned), but leave them and forget 'em as soon as they are out of sight.
Always remember:

LegendaryMage · January 2017

You just got slightly trolled, probably won't happen any time soon again, but when it does, just ignore it and keep doing your stuff. To give you an example of what real trolling is, is when you have a group of players that can't stand your guts go around reporting you for no reason, then asking other people to do as well. That's trolling. This is nothing but an inconvenience, sorry if I sound a bit blunt.

arena25 · January 2017

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You just got slightly trolled, probably won't happen any time soon again, but when it does, just ignore it and keep doing your stuff. To give you an example of what real trolling is, is when you have a group of players that can't stand your guts go around reporting you for no reason, then asking other people to do as well. That's trolling. This is nothing but an inconvenience, sorry if I sound a bit blunt.

You're fine. And abuse of reports is usually grounds for action against your account.

I have had multiple people report me for roleplaying (albeit in a different game). The devs contacted me, but it was only to follow company policy, and they knew it was frivolous. By the time the weekend was out, the people reporting me had penalties against their account.

Danikat · January 2017

I think it must be something about Stros M'Kai. I've had similar things happen to me a few times, and always on that island.

Once I was standing in the middle of the desert between the wayshrine and that goblin camp where the naked crazy dude is, sorting my inventory out and someone ran up, stood looking at me for about 30 seconds or so and then started jumping in circles around me, paused directly in front of me to do a waving emote (your character always faces the screen when you're in the menus so they could tell which way my camera was pointing) then carried on jumping in circles.

They repeated this about 3 times, obviously trying to get my attention (but for some reason not saying anything) until I said "umm...hi?" in say chat. Then started spamming me with whispers asking for real-life personal information - how old was I, was I a boy or a girl, where did I live, ok where in the UK, where in England...

I gave them vague answers to a couple of questions, asked why they wanted to know and the questions just kept coming so I logged out and switched to a different character.

Then I got a whisper: "Babe? Where you go babe?" At that point I blocked them. I was going to report them for harassment but it seemed like too much hassle.

Other times have been much milder. Once someone was following my character around, playing the flute every time I stopped moving. I put it down to me playing a female breton and him being 13 years old.

Abeille · January 2017

If you report the name for being inappropriate, ZOS might force them to change the name.

For the rest of it, you might try to report them for harassment, but I don't think anything will happen because what ZOS sees as harassment might not be the same as you. After all, they were not stopping you from fishing, but they were annoying you, so it all depends on if ZOS would see it as "disruptive" or not.

Loc2262 · January 2017

Guys, Arena said that (s)he had a past incident with nearly being kidnapped, so it's quite understandable that their tolerance towards whatever you might perceive as harassment or stalking is probably lower than that of the average person.

@arena25, unfortunately it's inevitable to run across guys like the one you met in a game like this. LiquidSchwartz (I like that name! great movie!

) summed it up quite nicely.

I don't think that the guy in this case had anything actually malicious in mind. They were probably just being silly, with a tendency towards "annoying".

Sometimes from encounters like this even cute and funny situations can arise. I remember a number of spontaneous dancing sessions when meeting "out in the field".

I'd recommend just porting to either a different zone, or (since often you end up in a different instance than the annoying guy) even to the same zone. And add them to your ignore list. Then forget about them and go about your business.

Totes-Bode · January 2017

I think he was just trying to be friendly, and acting randomly to attempt to make you laugh. You said it affected your fun but that is subjective, especially to a current mood. Emoting musical instruments and exercise poses next to someone who is doing something that could be considered tedious and boring by many (fishing, for example) may have been this person's way of wanting to inject some levity into your task. Perhaps you are feeling a bit too sensitive about other players actions toward you. But I suggest trying to look at it from a more light-hearted standpoint.

Cpt_Teemo · January 2017

Yeah, haven't you seen Sheogorath yet in game, it was probably one of his minions

Birdovic · January 2017

Oh please, it's not like that person did something to prevent you from fishing...

Just let him dance/emote/whatever and ignore him, he will leave on his own..and if not, well just keep ignoring.

But if you really can be "offended" by some virtual orc naked dancing, and reall really want to report him, your only option is his username (you said it was inappropriate).

arena25 · January 2017

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I'd have logged out, waited a few seconds, and then logged back in and hopefully find him gone.

Unfortunately there are players like this. Seems if his username was questionable then its clear he/she is just a troll with nothing better to do. Personally I wouldn't bite because he's wasting his time ultimately.

Definitely report if you feel you were targeted and if you were offended. Sadly, no action is most likely to be taken because we all get ignored when we press report, happens with everything.

Mate, I don't care if he only gets a warning, I want to at least get the point across that I'm serious about him leaving me alone.

And yes, I do feel targeted, because he just won't leave me alone and he's affecting people's fun.

BigBragg · January 2017

Seems like you are ill and had a rough week. Might I suggest I cup of tea and a nap?

arena25 · January 2017

redspecter23 wrote: »

Being an annoying idiot isn't against the TOS unfortunately. If you ask for any help from ZOS you'll get a standard reply telling you to put the player on ignore, which won't help 90% of what he's doing to you.

Being annoying, yes, isn't against TOS. But I sent repeated warnings that I want to be left alone, and continues to try and annoy me with emotes.

If that isn't harrassment, then harrassment doesn't have a definition anymore.

Egonieser · January 2017

arena25 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I'd have logged out, waited a few seconds, and then logged back in and hopefully find him gone.

Unfortunately there are players like this. Seems if his username was questionable then its clear he/she is just a troll with nothing better to do. Personally I wouldn't bite because he's wasting his time ultimately.

Definitely report if you feel you were targeted and if you were offended. Sadly, no action is most likely to be taken because we all get ignored when we press report, happens with everything.

Mate, I don't care if he only gets a warning, I want to at least get the point across that I'm serious about him leaving me alone.

And yes, I do feel targeted, because he just won't leave me alone and he's affecting people's fun.

If that was against the ToS, any of the actions he did would not be included in the game to begin with. Remember you play a MMO, he has the right to be there and do any emote or action he sees fit as you have the right to stand there and fish. You don't own that space, neither does he, it belongs to nobody. He did not harass you verbally or physically or threaten you or abused any mechanics or bugs that would prevent you from doing your thing - thus he did nothing wrong. Your options are: Log out. Move away entirely. Try to resolve it. ZoS won't do anything with your report as he did nothing wrong in the first place, it's just you being oversensitive to trivial things.
If you don't wish to be bothered, there are plenty of single player games that will provide you with no outside interferences.

starkerealm · January 2017

redspecter23 wrote: »

Being an annoying idiot isn't against the TOS unfortunately. If you ask for any help from ZOS you'll get a standard reply telling you to put the player on ignore, which won't help 90% of what he's doing to you.

That's part of the form, along with, "yeah, if we do something, we're not going to tell you what." I've still got the full text from a report in my inbox, one sec:

The dwellers of Tamriel thank you for taking time from your adventures to report this offense. Maintaining the integrity of the land is a priority. We will investigate this matter and take appropriate action.

To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation.

Please also be aware that you can add players whose behavior you find objectionable to the ignore list. To do this, open your contacts list (default: O) and click on the "No Entry" icon in the upper right corner. Now you have the option to add players. You can also do this by right-clicking on a player's name and choosing "Ignore". Once this is done, messages from the player in question will no longer be able to reach you.

If you are playing on a console, please contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So, they're not just saying, "ignore them and they'll go away." It's just one option open to you.

arena25 · January 2017

Egonieser wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I'd have logged out, waited a few seconds, and then logged back in and hopefully find him gone.

Unfortunately there are players like this. Seems if his username was questionable then its clear he/she is just a troll with nothing better to do. Personally I wouldn't bite because he's wasting his time ultimately.

Definitely report if you feel you were targeted and if you were offended. Sadly, no action is most likely to be taken because we all get ignored when we press report, happens with everything.

Mate, I don't care if he only gets a warning, I want to at least get the point across that I'm serious about him leaving me alone.

And yes, I do feel targeted, because he just won't leave me alone and he's affecting people's fun.

If that was against the ToS, any of the actions he did would not be included in the game to begin with. Remember you play a MMO, he has the right to be there and do any emote or action he sees fit as you have the right to stand there and fish. You don't own that space, neither does he, it belongs to nobody. He did not harass you verbally or physically or threaten you or abused any mechanics or bugs that would prevent you from doing your thing - thus he did nothing wrong. Your options are: Log out. Move away entirely. Try to resolve it. ZoS won't do anything with your report as he did nothing wrong in the first place, it's just you being oversensitive to trivial things.
If you don't wish to be bothered, there are plenty of single player games that will provide you with no outside interferences.

@Egonieser , the problem is I asked him to leave me alone. Yes, he has a right to be in that space. He has a right to use emotes. He has a right to fish.

What he doesn't have a right to do is to troll and harrass someone who requested you leave him/her alone. Disobeying that request is or at least should be considered harrassment.

And besides that, the guy was standing behind me like a creep. I don't know what, but if he was standing behind me in real life playing instruments like the way he was doing, I'd be calling the police. I don't care if he's just trying to lighten my day, if you stand behind me and follow me for no real reason, I say that unless you're a cop serving an arrest warrant, I'm calling the police and running away. I already have watched enough of the music video for "The Phoenix" by Fall Out Boy to realize that if someone's continuously following you and not wearing a cop uniform, he's not there to be your friend.

I'll be back later when I can be bothered.

Totes-Bode · January 2017

According to your original post, you never actually made a request to him to leave you alone. You only invited further contact by chatting him up, then very suddenly aggressed toward him with a duel invitation. I find it concerning that you'd call the police on someone standing behind you playing a guitar. With an action such as that, you would likely find yourself on the receiving end of some harassment from the police for paranoia.

Stovahkiin · January 2017

Uh-oh, I think someone else needs a hug!

Egonieser · January 2017

arena25 wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I'd have logged out, waited a few seconds, and then logged back in and hopefully find him gone.

Unfortunately there are players like this. Seems if his username was questionable then its clear he/she is just a troll with nothing better to do. Personally I wouldn't bite because he's wasting his time ultimately.

Definitely report if you feel you were targeted and if you were offended. Sadly, no action is most likely to be taken because we all get ignored when we press report, happens with everything.

Mate, I don't care if he only gets a warning, I want to at least get the point across that I'm serious about him leaving me alone.

And yes, I do feel targeted, because he just won't leave me alone and he's affecting people's fun.

If that was against the ToS, any of the actions he did would not be included in the game to begin with. Remember you play a MMO, he has the right to be there and do any emote or action he sees fit as you have the right to stand there and fish. You don't own that space, neither does he, it belongs to nobody. He did not harass you verbally or physically or threaten you or abused any mechanics or bugs that would prevent you from doing your thing - thus he did nothing wrong. Your options are: Log out. Move away entirely. Try to resolve it. ZoS won't do anything with your report as he did nothing wrong in the first place, it's just you being oversensitive to trivial things.
If you don't wish to be bothered, there are plenty of single player games that will provide you with no outside interferences.

@Egonieser , the problem is I asked him to leave me alone. Yes, he has a right to be in that space. He has a right to use emotes. He has a right to fish.

What he doesn't have a right to do is to troll and harrass someone who requested you leave him/her alone. Disobeying that request is or at least should be considered harrassment.

And besides that, the guy was standing behind me like a creep. I don't know what, but if he was standing behind me in real life playing instruments like the way he was doing, I'd be calling the police. I don't care if he's just trying to lighten my day, if you stand behind me and follow me for no real reason, I say that unless you're a cop serving an arrest warrant, I'm calling the police and running away. I already have watched enough of the music video for "The Phoenix" by Fall Out Boy to realize that if someone's continuously following you and not wearing a cop uniform, he's not there to be your friend.

I'll be back later when I can be bothered.

Well there is a world of a difference between real life and a game. I don't think anyone will be going around with a large axe shooting lightning bolts from their hands down the street will you?... Yeah, that analogy doesn't apply here I'm afraid. Thus also rules in a virtual world are miles apart from rules IRL. What's considered harassment IRL is not considered harassment with a bunch of pixels on screen in a fantasy world.

Runs · January 2017

This is formal notice that everyone on the PC servers NA and EU are bothering me by logging in.

Please stop.

If you continue to log in now that I have stated it bothers me, that is harassment.

arena25 · January 2017

Runs wrote: »

This is formal notice that everyone on the PC servers NA and EU are bothering me by logging in.

Please stop.

If you continue to log in now that I have stated it bothers me, that is harassment.

I'm afraid you just committed a logical fallacy by strawmanning my entire argument, @Runs .

KochDerDamonen · January 2017

No. According to your tale, this person was doing a load of ZOS-created activities, in the ZOS-created locale that we've all paid to do things inside of. Nothing you've said includes the person hunting you down (following you to a nearby fishing hole? Yeah, no), they made no crude statements nor did they make any attempt to egg you in conversation.

Here are a few options for you:
Have a laugh at a person doing a dance and playing some music while you do some fishing, usually you'd have to pay or be in a relationship for that kind of treatment

Ignore the person, they were just being present you wouldn't have even needed to block them chat-wise.
Enjoy a person's company and invite them to actually sit still and fish with you

This list doesn't even include the turn off the game/fish somewhere else options. Obviously those are disruptive to you fishing, but seriously if that's all it takes to get away from a person they're not harassing you.

arena25 · January 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

Is this action against TOS? ...

Technically harrassing others is against the code of conduct (you can read up on it from the link at the bottom of any of the pages here). Following someone and playing emotes that have no other reason as to mess with them would definitely qualify.
If you are not sure about it, you can always message them and ask them nicely to leave you alone - if they persist, you have grounds to report them.

Will it do any good? Maybe, but usually its not very likely unless they really, really make a habit of being an as... uhm... person of questionable character, towards many people, thos piling up a number of reports.

Personally I always prefer to just log out, switch to an alt, and game elsewhere in Tamriel. Like, there are many, many rare fish in many places... and while they can follow you to the next fishing hole, they generally would be a bit stumped by any form of fast travel and wander off to vex someone else.

But I find it always better not to waste any energy on those 'people' (and I am using that term loosely when that kind of meatbag is concerned), but leave them and forget 'em as soon as they are out of sight.
Always remember:

Thank you very much. Is there a way to make an answer the Best Answer and move it straight to the top?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to try for that rare fish again...we'll see how far we get.

AtAfternoon · January 2017

He probably just wanted to play about, and due to the fact that you not only asked him what he was doing but proceeded to challenge him, he probably thought you played along.

I may be missing it but I don't see anywhere in your post where you told him it was annoying and wanted him to leave.

waterfairy · January 2017

Where's the lol button when you need it?

alexkdd99 · January 2017

arena25 wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

I'd have logged out, waited a few seconds, and then logged back in and hopefully find him gone.

Unfortunately there are players like this. Seems if his username was questionable then its clear he/she is just a troll with nothing better to do. Personally I wouldn't bite because he's wasting his time ultimately.

Definitely report if you feel you were targeted and if you were offended. Sadly, no action is most likely to be taken because we all get ignored when we press report, happens with everything.

Mate, I don't care if he only gets a warning, I want to at least get the point across that I'm serious about him leaving me alone.

And yes, I do feel targeted, because he just won't leave me alone and he's affecting people's fun.

Open your map and port to somewhere else. By doing this he can't follow you as he doesn't know where you went. Problem solved.

Although imo you are over reacting a bit, but I don't let others actions in a video game bother me. Especially when I have complete control over the situation.

And maybe you are affecting his fun by not staying to watch the show. What one calls fun may not be fun for all, so not sure how one could cite that as a reason to report someone.

TARAFRAKA · January 2017

If that is what constitutes harassment for you...you may be in the wrong genre, my friend.
Having a virtual character standing 'behind' you means nothing because no one is actually there and neither are you.
He didnt curse at you, threaten you or anything like that. He used emotes made by zos...and walked to an area he is allowed to wslk to by zos...
[snip]
[edited for trolling]

Is this action against TOS?

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