Salvation VS other specific offensive sets

silky_soft · January 2017

Here we see the stats of salvation with the weapon damage 5th trait component highlighted. It hasn't been updated to be inline with all the other sets. It should be increased to 400 to be brought inline with similar sets.

Salvation:

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(5 items) Reduces cost of Werewolf Transformation ability by 33%. While in Werewolf form Weapon Damage is increased by 150.

Now we have all the other sets:

Light Speaker:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Restoration Staff abilities.

Netches Touch:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Shock Damage abilities.

Spider Cultist Cowl

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Destruction Staff abilities.

Vampire Lord

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Vampire abilities. Reduces the cost of your Vampire abilities by 5%

Spelunker

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage to your Undaunted abilities. When an ally uses one of your Undaunted ability synergies you restore 1500 Stamina.

Strength of the Automaton

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities.

Sword-Singer

(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Two Handed abilities.

Sword Dancer

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Dual Wield abilities.

*Source: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sets

Waffennacht · January 2017

Doesn't werewolves get massive weapon damage stat boosts? Don't ya think they considered giving werewolves an ungoldy amount of weapon damage and thought it would be OP?

Elder_III · January 2017

It's supposed to be all about making it easier to stay in WW form more of the time. It's not intended to be a weapon power enhancing set as it's primary focus.

Chrlynsch · January 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Doesn't werewolves get massive weapon damage stat boosts? Don't ya think they considered giving werewolves an ungoldy amount of weapon damage and thought it would be OP?

This doesn't make any sense.

OP had a fair request, werewolves can already stack weapon damage, ravager/ briarthorne/ hundings/fury ect...

With no thought on the awesome weapon damage bonus that they get.

Yet you say a set that weakens you in human form, but makes you a stronger werewolf would be OP?

Naw this would be more balanced then free viper, tremor damage going off.

Fact is this set, when updated, did so with higher damage. Though the set was broken given thousands of weapon damage, it broke the leaderboards for a while.

Zos fixed the set to give appropriate weapon damage (fix the bug) then nerfed it because it was performing too well. Yup it is true.

Waffennacht · January 2017

@Prothwata stacking weapon damage isn't the same as adding weapon damage to an ability.

What?

I know, I found this out when trying to see what Ysgramor did and didn't do. It doesn't add spell damage like Alchemist does, it adds Spell Damage to the ability, so Destructive Reach does it's damage +400 because it's Frost. This is why set's like Winterborn that deal Frost damage gain an additional +400 damage to it's Proc.

Depending on the ability, +400 weapon damage to an ability may exceed 10% additional damage than without said boost.

Chrlynsch · January 2017

@Waffennacht

Yes while you are correct that these other sets only grant 400 to an ability and are not affected by major/minor brutality.

Werewolf it self is a skill line in a bubble, werewolves can't use any abilities besides werewolf abilities. The added weapon damage does nothing but make you feel good about the higher number on your character. In all honesty the ultimate werewolf by itself does less damage over time then someone using two bars + another ultimate.

There is bigger burst and survival in pvp, and higher sustain, damage, and utility in pve.

So I ask again why cant this get buffed?

Waffennacht · January 2017

Prothwata wrote: »

@Waffennacht

Yes while you are correct that these other sets only grant 400 to an ability and are not affected by major/minor brutality.

Werewolf it self is a skill line in a bubble, werewolves can't use any abilities besides werewolf abilities. The added weapon damage does nothing but make you feel good about the higher number on your character. In all honesty the ultimate werewolf by itself does less damage over time then someone using two bars + another ultimate.

There is bigger burst and survival in pvp, and higher sustain, damage, and utility in pve.

So I ask again why cant this get buffed?

While I'm not entirely against buffing it, do keep in mind there are very powerful builds that utilize werewolf, you saying the added buffs are just pretty to look at makes me cringe a bit. Gotbeard had one bamf werewolf that used those stats to ever good effect.

STEVIL · January 2017

silky_soft wrote: »

Here we see the stats of salvation with the weapon damage 5th trait component highlighted. It hasn't been updated to be inline with all the other sets. It should be increased to 400 to be brought inline with similar sets.

Salvation:
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery

(4 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(5 items) Reduces cost of Werewolf Transformation ability by 33%. While in Werewolf form Weapon Damage is increased by 150.

Now we have all the other sets:

Light Speaker:
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Restoration Staff abilities.

Netches Touch:
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Shock Damage abilities.

Spider Cultist Cowl
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Destruction Staff abilities.

Vampire Lord
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(4 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Vampire abilities. Reduces the cost of your Vampire abilities by 5%

Spelunker
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage to your Undaunted abilities. When an ally uses one of your Undaunted ability synergies you restore 1500 Stamina.

Strength of the Automaton
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities.

Sword-Singer
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Two Handed abilities.

Sword Dancer
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Dual Wield abilities.

*Source: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sets

Did i miss the 33% cost ult reduction on all those sets you listed?

i think if you look at sets like the one where you get ressurection help and damage or the one where you move sneaky but get damage etc - you will find that whenever they give TWO effects the numerical one isn't as large as the cases where they dont.

Chrlynsch · January 2017

What I mean is that werewolf abilities are mutally exclusive, you can't use any other abilities. So zos could have just made the abilities as effective without the passive as it can never be applied to anything but those wolf abilities... It really doesn't matter and is waste of 2 skill points, as the passive could have been more useful like cost decrease.

I know strong wolf builds exsist, heck I have had over 30 different werewolf specific builds since lauch. Many of which are very strong. Though none of them include the Werewolf specific set... How bad is that?

Chrlynsch · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Here we see the stats of salvation with the weapon damage 5th trait component highlighted. It hasn't been updated to be inline with all the other sets. It should be increased to 400 to be brought inline with similar sets.

Salvation:
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery

(4 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(5 items) Reduces cost of Werewolf Transformation ability by 33%. While in Werewolf form Weapon Damage is increased by 150.

Now we have all the other sets:

Light Speaker:
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Restoration Staff abilities.

Netches Touch:
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Shock Damage abilities.

Spider Cultist Cowl
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Destruction Staff abilities.

Vampire Lord
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(4 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Vampire abilities. Reduces the cost of your Vampire abilities by 5%

Spelunker
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage to your Undaunted abilities. When an ally uses one of your Undaunted ability synergies you restore 1500 Stamina.

Strength of the Automaton
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities.

Sword-Singer
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Two Handed abilities.

Sword Dancer
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Dual Wield abilities.

*Source: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sets

Did i miss the 33% cost ult reduction on all those sets you listed?

i think if you look at sets like the one where you get ressurection help and damage or the one where you move sneaky but get damage etc - you will find that whenever they give TWO effects the numerical one isn't as large as the cases where they dont.

Because you could just straight up use it as long as they are equipped.

Moral of the story is this set needs a buff no matter how you look at it.

Only able to use this sets bonuses one at a time, while out of werewolf the set benefits a lower cost transformation, while in werewolf it gives 150 weapon damage... why don't I just use viper, ravager, brairheart, fury, dreughking that just makes me more deadly all of the time and deadlier than salvation while in werewolf form?

Just make the set a consideration for someone who has mained a wolf since beta, and runs packs of werewolves every week.

Ajaxduo · January 2017

Salvation should allow unlimited WW form

silky_soft · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Here we see the stats of salvation with the weapon damage 5th trait component highlighted. It hasn't been updated to be inline with all the other sets. It should be increased to 400 to be brought inline with similar sets.

Salvation:
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery

(4 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(5 items) Reduces cost of Werewolf Transformation ability by 33%. While in Werewolf form Weapon Damage is increased by 150.

Now we have all the other sets:

Light Speaker:
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Restoration Staff abilities.

Netches Touch:
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Shock Damage abilities.

Spider Cultist Cowl
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Spell Damage to your Destruction Staff abilities.

Vampire Lord
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage

(4 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Vampire abilities. Reduces the cost of your Vampire abilities by 5%

Spelunker
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage to your Undaunted abilities. When an ally uses one of your Undaunted ability synergies you restore 1500 Stamina.

Strength of the Automaton
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities.

Sword-Singer
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(4 items) Adds 688 Weapon Critical

(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Two Handed abilities.

Sword Dancer
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) Adds 450 Weapon Damage to your Dual Wield abilities.

*Source: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sets

Did i miss the 33% cost ult reduction on all those sets you listed?

i think if you look at sets like the one where you get ressurection help and damage or the one where you move sneaky but get damage etc - you will find that whenever they give TWO effects the numerical one isn't as large as the cases where they dont.

Mate if it was 33% skill cost reduction I wouldn't be here asking for salvation to be balanced. 33% ultimate cost is pointless, transform does no damage. I won't use any other ulti unless called for by raid lead. This set should be balanced the same as other skill line sets. There is little benefit running vma or master weapons while in form. So why not just make it 400 to only transform abilities.

Ww isn't a sorc overload bar where you can bounce back and forward. If you're scared of a ww in pvp, HA+poison injection+cost increase. Might as well triple proc ulti 1 shot me since we can't cleanse and only heal 3 times max.

leepalmer95 · January 2017

It would be nice if it gave 300 weapon and spell power, in order to boost ww heals when your stam.

150 does seem a bit low though especially as it's only applicable in ww form.

Either boost the amount it give or just make the weapon dmg flat weapon dmg so it works in human form as well.

Alcast · January 2017

Salvation set is useless. Tell me ONE time where you go into WW form right when Ulti is ready? Most of the time that is not the case so you are better off with sets like Hundings rage for example.

RouDeR · January 2017

The Salvation set shud look like this :
1: max Stamina
2: stam recovery
3: 129 weapon and spell damage
4: Gain Major Mending while in Werewolf Form
and reduce cost of your abilities and sprinting by 10%

now this is good WW set
I will gladly throw away my Gold Black Rose set to equip this kind of utility set for my WW

Nefaras · January 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Salvation set is useless. Tell me ONE time where you go into WW form right when Ulti is ready? Most of the time that is not the case so you are better off with sets like Hundings rage for example.

@Alcast any suggestion from you for this set, in the ww thread we talked a lot about the set ...but there are to many (bad) ww players that want the form to be ridiculous op , or pve power creep ....or the one dude who constantly ask for tanking "solution" like frost staff for ww ....

Alcast · January 2017

Nefaras wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Salvation set is useless. Tell me ONE time where you go into WW form right when Ulti is ready? Most of the time that is not the case so you are better off with sets like Hundings rage for example.

@Alcast any suggestion from you for this set, in the ww thread we talked a lot about the set ...but there are to many (bad) ww players that want the form to be ridiculous op , or pve power creep ....or the one dude who constantly ask for tanking "solution" like frost staff for ww ....

Some have already pointed out a few good options. There is several possiblities:
1. Cost reduction of 20% (as werewolf skills cost a ton)
2. @RouDeR suggestions is awesomo (10% Cost Reduction, 10% sprinting cost reduction)
3. Every Time you kill an enemy gain 5 seconds time in WW Form

Costreduction would help the most as this is the WWs weakness in my opinion.

Nefaras · January 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Nefaras wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Salvation set is useless. Tell me ONE time where you go into WW form right when Ulti is ready? Most of the time that is not the case so you are better off with sets like Hundings rage for example.

@Alcast any suggestion from you for this set, in the ww thread we talked a lot about the set ...but there are to many (bad) ww players that want the form to be ridiculous op , or pve power creep ....or the one dude who constantly ask for tanking "solution" like frost staff for ww ....

Some have already pointed out a few good options. There is several possiblities:
1. Cost reduction of 20% (as werewolf skills cost a ton)
2. @RouDeR suggestions is awesomo (10% Cost Reduction, 10% sprinting cost reduction)
3. Every Time you kill an enemy gain 5 seconds time in WW Form

Costreduction would help the most as this is the WWs weakness in my opinion.

Thanks for your suggestion. That way we could also play a WW setup in a no CP campaign maybe

Anazasi · January 2017

This set was exploited several months ago by a small pack of WW's who got banned. It is highly unlikely you will ever see any changes to this set because of the potential for creating another exploitable moment.

I do not know the particulars on how it was done.

Nefaras · January 2017

Anazasi wrote: »

This set was exploited several months ago by a small pack of WW's who got banned. It is highly unlikely you will ever see any changes to this set because of the potential for creating another exploitable moment.

I do not know the particulars on how it was done.

Okaaay that means , they should not touch the whole game because there is so much broken and maybe exploitable ? Cool than they have clearly the most experienced game developers of all time!

Silver_Strider · January 2017

Salvatuon set:
2) Max Stamina

3) Reduce the cost of WW abilities by 10%
3) Stamina Regen

4) Max Stamina

5) Reduce the cost of WW Ultimate by 33%
5) Increase Weapon Damage by 250

Just my 2 cents.

RouDeR · January 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Salvatuon set:
2) Max Stamina

3) Reduce the cost of WW abilities by 10%
3) Stamina Regen

4) Max Stamina

5) Reduce the cost of WW Ultimate by 33%
5) Increase Weapon Damage by 250

Just my 2 cents.

Werewolf does not need anymore damage , it needs Healing , cuz its main drawback is the Magika heal wich scales off spell damage and maximum magika .
In PVP 70% of the time you are debuffed with major defile , and with the average magika pool for stam char around 10-15k you will heal probably for 3-4k and 5-6 if it crits , which is LOW , not to mention the cost of the heal is too high if you not spend CP in cost reduction.
Fully focused , WW builds have around 17-22k magika and CP spend in to magika cost reduction , but even then the WW have one more weak point , its the SNARES, WW have no ability to remove snares , once snared in group PVP you are pretty much dead , so the best choice for the 5 bonus would be

Grand Major Mending and Snare immunity or at least to reduce Snare duration by 75% or smting

Silver_Strider · January 2017

RouDeR wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Salvatuon set:
2) Max Stamina

3) Reduce the cost of WW abilities by 10%
3) Stamina Regen

4) Max Stamina

5) Reduce the cost of WW Ultimate by 33%
5) Increase Weapon Damage by 250

Just my 2 cents.

Werewolf does not need anymore damage , it needs Healing , cuz its main drawback is the Magika heal wich scales off spell damage and maximum magika .
In PVP 70% of the time you are debuffed with major defile , and with the average magika pool for stam char around 10-15k you will heal probably for 3-4k and 5-6 if it crits , which is LOW , not to mention the cost of the heal is too high if you not spend CP in cost reduction.
Fully focused , WW builds have around 17-22k magika and CP spend in to magika cost reduction , but even then the WW have one more weak point , its the SNARES, WW have no ability to remove snares , once snared in group PVP you are pretty much dead , so the best choice for the 5 bonus would be
Grand Major Mending and Snare immunity or at least to reduce Snare duration by 75% or smting

I was lead to believe this topic was about the Salvation set. Snares and heals would be more along the lines of what Boarskin or whatever that set is called offers. Reduces the duration of snares by 50% and heals you while affected by snares.
Also, my suggestion would also mean a 10% reduction to their heal cost, which while not a lot would still help to squeeze in an additional heal at times.

What you are suggestion is a near complete elimination of WW counterplay all together. That isn't balance, that's just asking to be OP for the sake of being OP.

DeadlyRecluse · January 2017

1-4: whatever.
5: WW heal now scales off of Stamina/weapon damage, but still uses Magicka.

Now THAT'S a WW set...

...and yes this is kind of a joke.

Wolfchild07 · January 2017

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Salvation should allow unlimited WW form

I would actually sacrifice weapon damage for this as a QoL change.

Nefaras wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Salvation set is useless. Tell me ONE time where you go into WW form right when Ulti is ready? Most of the time that is not the case so you are better off with sets like Hundings rage for example.

@Alcast any suggestion from you for this set, in the ww thread we talked a lot about the set ...but there are to many (bad) ww players that want the form to be ridiculous op , or pve power creep ....or the one dude who constantly ask for tanking "solution" like frost staff for ww ....

You misunderstood the post or only read the title. In hindsight, I could have worded it better.
What I meant was that they gave a taunt to ice staff, a ranged mag dps weapon, but did not give a taunt to werewolf, which they should have. It is the only setup that cannot taunt.

Nefaras · January 2017

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Salvation should allow unlimited WW form

I would actually sacrifice weapon damage for this as a QoL change.

Nefaras wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Salvation set is useless. Tell me ONE time where you go into WW form right when Ulti is ready? Most of the time that is not the case so you are better off with sets like Hundings rage for example.

@Alcast any suggestion from you for this set, in the ww thread we talked a lot about the set ...but there are to many (bad) ww players that want the form to be ridiculous op , or pve power creep ....or the one dude who constantly ask for tanking "solution" like frost staff for ww ....

You misunderstood the post or only read the title. In hindsight, I could have worded it better.
What I meant was that they gave a taunt to ice staff, a ranged mag dps weapon, but did not give a taunt to werewolf, which they should have. It is the only setup that cannot taunt.

and you are still no help for a group as a ww tank , but thats off topic

silky_soft · January 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Just my 2 cents.

yea nice or

Salvatuon set:
2) Max Stamina
3) Reduce the cost of WW abilities by 10%. Heal now uses stamina cost reduction.
4) Max Stamina
5) Reduce the cost of WW Ultimate by 20% while increasing duration by 20%
5) Increase Weapon Damage by 240

*** any improvement is better.

lustdog · January 2017

no need tht salvation WW need more love.....:(

Xsorus · January 2017

The werewolf heal is suppose to scale if weapon damage and max stamina and use magicka as a resource.