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Why do Stamina builds ALWAYS get the more damaging morph of a class skill?
RinaldoGandolphi
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Lets see here:
Dragonknight-
Stamina builds given
Searing Strike(More damaging morph)
Burning Breath (More damaging morph armor reduction)
Templar
Biting Jabs (More damage morph)
Power of the Light(Armor reduction more damage)
Crescent Sweep
Sorcerer
Thundering Presense(Now Hurricance) Longer duration, more damage
Critical Surge (Heals for more vs the other just adding spell damage)
Nightblade
Sunrise Attack
Incapacitating Strike
Ambush
Relentless Focus
The only exception to this has been Binding Javelin for Templars.
I really liked Cresent Sweep, Empowering Sweep sucks, its damage is 66% less and its made for a tank.
My build was based on Biting Jabs (the more damage morph) took that too left us with the healing one.
Stamina builds really have some nerve, they get EVERY single damaging class morph, magic gets left with either tanking or healing morphs that deal less damage. Look at Concealed Weapon vs Suprise attack in damage, Look at Soul Harvest vs Incap...its not even close.
Ahh well that's my rant for the day
PS: Mark my words, Stam Sorcs will get Mage's Wrath because it deals more damage, Mag Sorcs will be stuck with Endless Fury despite me and many others using Mage's Wrath since 2014.
Dragonknight-
Stamina builds given
Searing Strike(More damaging morph)
Burning Breath (More damaging morph armor reduction)
Templar
Biting Jabs (More damage morph)
Power of the Light(Armor reduction more damage)
Crescent Sweep
Sorcerer
Thundering Presense(Now Hurricance) Longer duration, more damage
Critical Surge (Heals for more vs the other just adding spell damage)
Nightblade
Sunrise Attack
Incapacitating Strike
Ambush
Relentless Focus
The only exception to this has been Binding Javelin for Templars.
I really liked Cresent Sweep, Empowering Sweep sucks, its damage is 66% less and its made for a tank.
My build was based on Biting Jabs (the more damage morph) took that too left us with the healing one.
Stamina builds really have some nerve, they get EVERY single damaging class morph, magic gets left with either tanking or healing morphs that deal less damage. Look at Concealed Weapon vs Suprise attack in damage, Look at Soul Harvest vs Incap...its not even close.
Ahh well that's my rant for the day
PS: Mark my words, Stam Sorcs will get Mage's Wrath because it deals more damage, Mag Sorcs will be stuck with Endless Fury despite me and many others using Mage's Wrath since 2014.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak
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RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak
6
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Templar ones are obvious for 2 that they gave magicka the healing versions. Not sure with the new ultimate. I can't see how crescent sweep can compete with Dawnbreaker as a damage uti. Empowering sweep would at least be something different but lets face it; you don't really need it to scale in order to get the damage reduction.
Just hyperbole here but it seems stamina in general has had more cost reduction and bigger damage (burst) while Magicka to me seems to get more recovery options and secondary effects like heal on hit and other utility and sustained DPS.Edited by technohic on January 26, 2017 7:31PM0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This really struck a nerve with the Cresent Sweep change.
They took Dawnbreaker, Magicka Templar only had 1 good damaging Ultimate for a solo m magTemplar in Cresent Sweep and now they have took that too, Like Stamina needed another low cost high damaging Ultimate, I used to use Dawnbreaker of Smiting but thats gone now too.
If anything Stamina Should have gotten the Empowering Morph the 15% damage reduction would have better helped Stmplar survivability when being beamed by 2 people Empowering would probably keep them alive.Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on January 26, 2017 7:32PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭I'll agree on most of these. But engulfing flames is definitely better than noxious breathMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Templar ones are obvious for 2 that they gave magicka the healing versions. Not sure with the new ultimate. I can't see how crescent sweep can compete with Dawnbreaker as a damage uti. Empowering sweep would at least be something different but lets face it; you don't really need it to scale in order to get the damage reduction.
Just hyperbole here but it seems stamina in general has had more cost reduction and bigger damage (burst) while Magicka to me seems to get more recovery options and secondary effects like heal on hit and other utility and sustained DPS.
Thats a wise observation. I really liked Cresent Sweep though, it wasn't as good as Dawnbreaker but it was close, better then anything else Templars had for dealing damage with Ultimates.
Now its either use Meteor, Destro Ultimate, or Barrier. There really isn't anything else worth using and my low cost Ultimate is now gone for good, you won't kill anyone with Empowering...that 66% damage increase to folks in front of you actually mattered,Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TotallyNotVos wrote: »I'll agree on most of these. But engulfing flames is definitely better than noxious breath
I could agree with that.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Haven't you figured it out yet?
Devs play STAMINA.
Yup, Minalan watch Stam Sorcs will get both Power Overload and Mage's Wrath as stam morphs within the next year...we will be left with the weaker Endless Fury and Energy Overload mana returns with less overall damage.Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on January 26, 2017 7:36PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
They're too busy having fun on their gankblades.
BTW: Who uses overload anymore as anything but a free spell casting bar?0 -
Really?!
The damage that shamina morphs should be even higher as stamina builds in general are a lot weaker than magicka ones. How many trials have you seen with only stamina DPS characters (0), and how many with only magicka DPS (almost all).
I have done some testing on my end and i can easily do at least 10k more DPS with magicka build compared to stamina build on my dunmer DK (both builds using MSA shasrpened items)
Summary: Stamina builds do a lot less DPS and are less reliable as they need to go in mele range maximize their damage potential.
So the topic should be "Why are stamina spells weaker than magicka ones"2 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »Really?!
The damage that shamina morphs should be even higher as stamina builds in general are a lot weaker than magicka ones. How many trials have you seen with only stamina DPS characters (0), and how many with only magicka DPS (almost all).
I have done some testing on my end and i can easily do at least 10k more DPS with magicka build compared to stamina build on my dunmer DK (both builds using MSA shasrpened items)
Summary: Stamina builds do a lot less DPS and are less reliable as they need to go in mele range maximize their damage potential.
So the topic should be "Why are stamina spells weaker than magicka ones"
In OP's defense, I believe he's referring to PvP, not trials"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes, im refering to PVP. thanks @CadburyRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
They're too busy having fun on their gankblades.
BTW: Who uses overload anymore as anything but a free spell casting bar?
You would be surprised how many folks die to Overload. I watched Xevenax Overload down a few people a few weeks ago. I have Overload down many Nightblades in Cyrodiil the last two months. I wouldn't try it all the time, but you would be surprised who you can kill with it.
Protip: if you run towards your target while fiing Overload attacks you can create a doppler effect causing Two Overload attacks to land at the same time which = an instant kill on most folks besides tanks...especially with Gold Elegant Gear and Dual Wield Swords.
I try it for the LOL from time to time, you can catch folks by surprise...they haven't seen an Overload attack in a few months they don't know what to do lol
QAM was butchering folks with Overload a few weeks ago....im telling you would be suprised lolEdited by RinaldoGandolphi on January 26, 2017 7:45PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
CubanRay✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yes, im refering to PVP. thanks @Cadbury
In that case I forgive you.
Stamina is not in a good place in pve.
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OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Lets see here:
Dragonknight-
Stamina builds given
Searing Strike(More damaging morph)
Burning Breath (More damaging morph armor reduction)
Think this answer your question.
Two stam skills vs how many mag skills?PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends6 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Question:
Why do Stamina builds ALWAYS get the more damaging morph of a class skill?
Answer:
Because magicka does more damage and thier trying to balance it out evenly as is the right thing to do.
i honestly do not see the problem.
ever since beta 2013 magicka has allways done more damage, this is good for all of us.
Edited by Gilvoth on January 26, 2017 8:04PM0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do Stamina builds ALWAYS get the more damaging morph of a class skill?Nightblade
Incapacitating Strike
Relentless Focus
Why did you include relentless focus and incapacitating strikes on this list? Soul harvest has long been the better option for damage, incap only recently (dark brotherhood) started scaling properly for stamina builds. Soul harvest generates more ultimate passively and merciless resolve hits harder than relentless focus, I don't even know of a stamina build incorporating the damage part of relentless focus.
Not to mention that stamina has less options to choose from within in the class, and only morphs not skills. We make up for it in weapon skill lines, but regarding class skill lines barely anything.
A proper magicka build will shred someone in medium armor, it's not even fair for medium armor stamina builds. Maybe it's hard to remember that when everyone is running around in heavy armor with 25K+ resistances on their attack bar and healing received up the ass, getting the same or more damage as someone in medium, as well as better sustain. And there doesn't seem to be any end in sight for heavy armor + proc sets, so I doubt this aspect of the game will ever change in the near future.
My merciless resolve loves it some medium armor though, them crits.The Age of Wrobel.3 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If people of this forum were balancing stam/mag the results would be completly mirrored skills with same damage (except different resurce pool). But mag would still be the only type with shield...Edited by SodanTok on January 26, 2017 8:28PM2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aurora Javelin
Deals additional damage based on the distance the spear travels.
Should switch this to stamina.
I wish there was a way to make either morph cost stamina or magicka. So you could pick the utility you wanted.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 26, 2017 8:30PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LOL at some of the abilities that you've listed.
Noxious Breath is a weak AoE DoT that provides a redundant buff in PvE (so its not even used, even Flames of Oblivion does more DPS than Noxious). The only reason its used in PvP is for the penetration. Engulfing Flames? 10% more damage on your Fire Blockade, Shooting Star, Destro Ult, Burning Embers, Flames of Oblivion, Ferocious Leap (next patch), and all the other flame damage you use. but wait that's not it! It also buffs all the flame damage in your group by 10%! Meaning that everyone's Fire Blockade, Shooting Star, Destro Ult, Force Pulse, Grothdarr, Ilambris and Light and Heavy attacks do 10% more damage. Now tell me that you aren't trolling.
Biting Jabs provides a really redundant buff that you get by using Weapon Power potions (which you should be using, if not GTFO my group). Puncturing Sweeps on the other hand give you insane amounts of self healing (which you should have in PvE). In PvP, meh, both morphs are the same except Sweeps also top up your health bar, but Magicka Templar > Stamina Templar in general.
Incap doesn't do more damage than Soul Harvest. Not in terms of base numbers. Its the difference in builds and obviously an Incap from a gank build (aka all stamblades in Cyrodiil right now) is going to hit harder than a Soul Harvest with a overall strong build from a magblade. Incap has a stun, which is really strong in PvP, but what are you going to stun in PvE? Are you gonna stun Rakkhat with that Incap? Soul Harvest has much more utility as it has benefits in both PvE and PvP. Sure it doesn't get a stun, but you can use more ultimates. I'd take the ultimate per kill on Incap over the stun any time (which would also reduce ganking in some way). You have Fear anyway on both specs which is undodgeable and unblockable. (WTB Removal of the stun on Incap and additional duration on the Empower/other buff).
Relentless Focus doesn't hit nearly as hard as Merciless Resolve. In PvE its a very lackluster skill as you have pretty much 100% uptime on Combat Prayer anyway and the bow proc does only slightly more damage per cast than Rapid Strikes because of the fact that it has to be applied twice (basically 2x Rapid Strikes > Assassin's Scourge + Relentless Focus). Magicka Nightblades can get Merciless to hit as hard as 60k, maybe more next patch (basically 2x Force Pulse = Assassin's Will + Merciless Resolve). The stamina version doesn't come close to that. In PvP? I don't recall the last time anyone has hit me with a Relentless bow proc. Why? Maybe cause the skill is kinda bad on a stamina nightblade in PvP? Magicka NBs' burst revolves around the skill. Enough said.
Just throwing this out, but Surprise Attack also provides a very redundant buff in PvE, and on top of that it does less damage per cast than Rapid Strikes, so its never used. Concealed Weapon is a terrible skill though not arguing against the fact that Surprise Attack is miles better.
So basically there's a pretty common pattern here: stamina builds have all skills that provide redundant buffs in PvE, while magicka get the better utility morphs. In PvP? Stamina get buffs that save them a skill slot or the pain of using specific potions, while magicka gets all the better utility options. Obviously there are some stamina morphs that are just flat out better, in some cases the skills are equally good, in other situations magicka morphs are better.
Basically, while in PvP stamina morphs might seem better. Take it out to PvE and the situation changes quite drastically.
It seems I really like brackets lol.Edited by Izaki on January 26, 2017 8:43PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
They're too busy having fun on their gankblades.
BTW: Who uses overload anymore as anything but a free spell casting bar?
You would be surprised how many folks die to Overload. I watched Xevenax Overload down a few people a few weeks ago. I have Overload down many Nightblades in Cyrodiil the last two months. I wouldn't try it all the time, but you would be surprised who you can kill with it.
Protip: if you run towards your target while fiing Overload attacks you can create a doppler effect causing Two Overload attacks to land at the same time which = an instant kill on most folks besides tanks...especially with Gold Elegant Gear and Dual Wield Swords.
I try it for the LOL from time to time, you can catch folks by surprise...they haven't seen an Overload attack in a few months they don't know what to do lol
QAM was butchering folks with Overload a few weeks ago....im telling you would be suprised lol
Protip number 2: Use Inner Light or Entropy, hard cast a Frag and use Overload at the same time. One shot if not dodged or blocked.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Lets see here:
Dragonknight-
Stamina builds given
Searing Strike(More damaging morph)
Burning Breath (More damaging morph armor reduction)
Templar
Biting Jabs (More damage morph)
Power of the Light(Armor reduction more damage)
Crescent Sweep
Sorcerer
Thundering Presense(Now Hurricance) Longer duration, more damage
Critical Surge (Heals for more vs the other just adding spell damage)
Nightblade
Sunrise Attack
Incapacitating Strike
Ambush
Relentless Focus
The only exception to this has been Binding Javelin for Templars.
I really liked Cresent Sweep, Empowering Sweep sucks, its damage is 66% less and its made for a tank.
My build was based on Biting Jabs (the more damage morph) took that too left us with the healing one.
Stamina builds really have some nerve, they get EVERY single damaging class morph, magic gets left with either tanking or healing morphs that deal less damage. Look at Concealed Weapon vs Suprise attack in damage, Look at Soul Harvest vs Incap...its not even close.
Ahh well that's my rant for the day
PS: Mark my words, Stam Sorcs will get Mage's Wrath because it deals more damage, Mag Sorcs will be stuck with Endless Fury despite me and many others using Mage's Wrath since 2014.
Ok first of all there are barely any class morphs as it is, second of all compared to all the damage skills you get as magicka for sorc, nightblade, and dk? I think your really reaching here, third its called risk/reward, you guys also get staff dps abilities, stamina does not, and the fact we are in melee ranged all the time, it would be way to op otherwise if you can stay at range, anyways in pve stamina is behind, I have no idea why you think this.Edited by DragonBound on January 26, 2017 10:57PM2 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭The damage on most of those abilities are the same, it only appears that stamina morphs hit harder, but really it's the stamina characters themselves that hit harder, because stamina characters usually have more WD than magicka has SD1 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lol magicka currently, and has for a while, had more dps than stamina. Your argument is invalid.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lol magicka currently, and has for a while, had more dps than stamina. Your argument is invalid.
He's talking about PVP.
He's not talking about trials or situations where a computer dummy sits inside of two or most of the time three ticking AOE DOTS.
Real people laugh at liquid lightning, step around elemental blockade, and dodge away from illambris.0
