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The PvP vs PvE Issue
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BlackSparrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭See,this is what happens when you don't separate pve from pvp
Nah, this happens in games where they're separate too.
To PvPers, PvEers will always be self-indulgent carebears who can't take a challenge and whine when the newest update forces them to change how they play.
To PvEers, PvPers will always be overly contentious trolls who are obsessed with their own e-peens and whine when the newest update forces them to change how they play.
This division is a constant of MMORPGs. There is no escaping it.Edited by BlackSparrow on January 24, 2017 5:48PMLiving vicariously through my characters.
My Girls:"If you were trapped in your house for, say, a year, how would you pass the time?"
Nephikah the Houseless, dunmer assassin: "I suppose I could use the break. I have a lot of business holdings now that need management."
Swum-Many-Waters, elderly argonian healer: "I think that I would enjoy writing a memoir."
Silh'ki, khajiit warrior-chef: "Would this one be able to go outside, to the nearby river? It's hard to fish without water!"
Peregrine Huntress, bosmer hunter: "Who is forcing me to stay inside, and where can I find them?"
Lorenyawe, altmer mechanist: "And why would I want to go outside in the first place? Too much to be done in the workshop."
Lorelai Magpie, breton master thief: "I'd go nuts. Lucky for me, I have a little experience sneaking out!"
Rasheda the Burning Heart, redguard knight: "I would continue my training to keep my skills sharp."
Hex-Eye Azabi, khajiit daedric priestess: "I suppose it would be lucky, then, that I built a shrine to Mephala in my backyard."
Yngva Stormhammer, nord bandit (reformed...ish): "I hate being inside even when I'm not forced to be. GET. ME. OUT."
Madam Argentia, vampire dunmer aristocrat: "I suppose it would be more of the same. I have a rather... contentious relationship with the sun."
Mazie gra-Bolga, orc scout: "Uh... I'd have to house train my bear..."
Felicia the Wanderer, imperial witch-for-hire: "What Lorelai said."
Calico Jaka-dra, retired khajiit pirate: "This one would like a rest from her grand adventures. Her jewel shop runs out of stock!"
Shimmerbeam, blind altmer psijic: "Provided that I am confined to Artaeum, I do not think I will want for things to occupy my time."
Shauna Blackfire, redguard necromancer: "Sounds like paradise. I hate people."
Kirniel the Undying, cursed bosmer warrior: "I would feel useless, not being able to fight."
Echoes-from-Dragons, argonian who thinks she's a dragon: "All the better to count my hoard!"
(Signature idea shamelessly stolen from Abeille.)4 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Balancing.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭The thing is, MOST of the time (not all), the nerfs the PVE side of the game receive are due to PVP complaints on balance. For end game PVE, it's almost all about damage. If you want to get on a good trials team, you need to meet a certain damage threshold, and every nerf (regardless of why it was implemented) affects your DPS. When PVE players complain about this, the PVP players accuse them of "whining", when it was PVP "whining" that caused the nerf in most cases.
Also, in this game I have heard the following numerous times:
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm monster helms and shoulders, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm dungeon and overworld sets, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm Maelstrom weapons, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVE players: "We really need a way to get vigor that isn't related to PVP."
PVP player response: "Suck it up. We had to PVP to get it, so should you."
From many posts and responses I have seen here, it seems to me that PVP players feel that PVE players should just get over themselves and deal with it, and any PVE players that have issues with PVP changes that affect PVE are just whiners. They only seem to care about themselves and their play style. Meanwhile, PVE players keep asking for PVP balance changes to only be implemented within the PVP areas so that both sides get what they want. That seems fair to me, but I have also seen PVP players be against this, which kind of reinforces my belief that the PVP players think PVE players should "just get over it".
If PVP was constantly getting nerfed due to PVE reasons, you can bet the PVPers would be in here throwing a fit too. It just seems very hypocritical.
You forgot a couple.
PvE players: I want Telvar stones and sets but I don't wanna get ganked!
PvE players: I want Akavari Motifs but don't wanna earn the AP for it. (It's ok that every other single motif in the game is PvE related in obtaining though.)
PvE players: Why can't I go into cyrodiil and just quest without PvP when we know full well it's an open world PVP ZONE!!!
It goes both ways. It pits us against each other and it's stupid when it's ZoS that can't removed heads from backsides. Many, including myself have suggested numerous ways to balance things out for PvP vs. PvE. All of it has fallen on deaf ears. ZoS will do what ZoS wants to do. That's the only thing we can all agree upon."The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"5 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The thing is, MOST of the time (not all), the nerfs the PVE side of the game receive are due to PVP complaints on balance. For end game PVE, it's almost all about damage. If you want to get on a good trials team, you need to meet a certain damage threshold, and every nerf (regardless of why it was implemented) affects your DPS. When PVE players complain about this, the PVP players accuse them of "whining", when it was PVP "whining" that caused the nerf in most cases.
Also, in this game I have heard the following numerous times:
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm monster helms and shoulders, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm dungeon and overworld sets, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm Maelstrom weapons, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVE players: "We really need a way to get vigor that isn't related to PVP."
PVP player response: "Suck it up. We had to PVP to get it, so should you."
From many posts and responses I have seen here, it seems to me that PVP players feel that PVE players should just get over themselves and deal with it, and any PVE players that have issues with PVP changes that affect PVE are just whiners. They only seem to care about themselves and their play style. Meanwhile, PVE players keep asking for PVP balance changes to only be implemented within the PVP areas so that both sides get what they want. That seems fair to me, but I have also seen PVP players be against this, which kind of reinforces my belief that the PVP players think PVE players should "just get over it".
If PVP was constantly getting nerfed due to PVE reasons, you can bet the PVPers would be in here throwing a fit too. It just seems very hypocritical.
This is very accurate but ppl will flame and troll because no one wants to admit that their actions cause effects to others.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭The thing is, MOST of the time (not all), the nerfs the PVE side of the game receive are due to PVP complaints on balance. For end game PVE, it's almost all about damage. If you want to get on a good trials team, you need to meet a certain damage threshold, and every nerf (regardless of why it was implemented) affects your DPS. When PVE players complain about this, the PVP players accuse them of "whining", when it was PVP "whining" that caused the nerf in most cases.
Also, in this game I have heard the following numerous times:
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm monster helms and shoulders, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm dungeon and overworld sets, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVP players: "We don't want to play PVE to farm Maelstrom weapons, so give them to us for playing PVP."
PVE players: "We really need a way to get vigor that isn't related to PVP."
PVP player response: "Suck it up. We had to PVP to get it, so should you."
From many posts and responses I have seen here, it seems to me that PVP players feel that PVE players should just get over themselves and deal with it, and any PVE players that have issues with PVP changes that affect PVE are just whiners. They only seem to care about themselves and their play style. Meanwhile, PVE players keep asking for PVP balance changes to only be implemented within the PVP areas so that both sides get what they want. That seems fair to me, but I have also seen PVP players be against this, which kind of reinforces my belief that the PVP players think PVE players should "just get over it".
If PVP was constantly getting nerfed due to PVE reasons, you can bet the PVPers would be in here throwing a fit too. It just seems very hypocritical.
As a PVPer, I accept that I need to grind PVE for gear - and don't complain about it. I hate that I have to grind PVE for undaunted mettle - because it IS a long grind when that isn't your playstyle - the same way that vigour can be for non-PVPers.
I don't like it when stuff that is only obtainable via endgame content (whether PVE or PVP) is desirable for the other side. That should NOT be the case. I also don't like the idea of making skills work differently from PVE to PVP. Basically because PVPers have to do both - and it would make it really confusing/messy for stuff to work differently depending where you are - and it would also make it doubly difficult for a PVEer dipping his toes into PVP for the first time.
Now different sets I'm ok with - stuff that gives %dmg bonus to bosses or affects only other players are workable and could be good examples of endgame sets that are strong but don't impact the other side (and also don't impact basic open-world PVE too much too).
But yeah, PVPers complain about imbalance with no idea on how changes could impact PVE - but they do that trusting that ZoS does understand and that they would balance it appropriately. Any issues that people have with PVE balance has to be with ZoS, not with PVPers. I mean take the Radient nerf.. PVP would have been happy with a range reduction. The fact that they reduced dmg suggests to me that it was also over-performing in PVE - and therefore making that particular class have an unfair advantage over others..
If zos cared about a class over performing compared to others in pve Mag Sorc would've gotten nerfed.1 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Damage and healing are so high because of PvE and as long as they don't adjust our health pools there will be a balance issue between PvP and PvE. Proc sets, for example, are balanced to do a set amount of damage per hit to NPCs amounting to a small fraction of their health. Throw that into PvP, where the typical player has an effective health pool of 60k, lower than any significant NPC, and it's effectiveness increase to the point that it is overtuned. There are two "easy" fixes to this: increase our PvP health pool to PvE NPC levels, or significantly tone down damage and healing in PvE.
The competitive PvE players absolutely abhor this idea but it should be done to alleviate the incredible power creep in game, which the devs are just barely starting to acknowledge and address.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?2 -
Karius_Imalthar✭✭✭✭✭PvP can get a bit heated and people carry this outside of Cyr? I haven't seen any hostility because of alliance in PvE. I make a point to try not to memorize people's name in PvP so i'm indifferent if I encounter them in PvE.1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because PvE players complaining about not being able to beat things or not having enough content brings unbalanced item sets into the game which ruins PvP.Edited by templesus on January 24, 2017 6:36PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?
Because PvP game play requires more extensive balancing to be considered fair by PvP players since - and unlike their AI controlled counterparts - they can more easily exploit imbalances in the game. So they oft take to the forums and demand that these "unfair" strategies be "nerfed". This in turn adversely affects PvE players - often weakening their abilities and builds to the point they have to redesign their entire character. It is extremely annoying and encourages hostility.
Edited by Jeremy on January 24, 2017 6:44PM4 -
Jemcrystal✭✭✭✭✭I would conclude then that any mmorpg that caters to both pvp and pve should instance the pvp zone as if it was an entirely separate game. The players would have to start out naked at level 1 getting nothing from the pve zone and nothing gained in pvp should cross over to the pve zone. True separation would be the only way to achieve harmony. Not possible in TESO as it would take a rewrite of the game.1 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?
Lazy balancing by Zos is one and only reason of all QQ PvP VS PvE threads. Most of the times, PvE players feel that Zos is nerfing their setups to the ground to please PvPers, and so on and so forth.
All could be avoided if sets and skills would behave differently in both aspects of the game. But I guess its more important to develop 5k crown mounts than to introduce realistic balance.2 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »I would conclude then that any mmorpg that caters to both pvp and pve should instance the pvp zone as if it was an entirely separate game. The players would have to start out naked at level 1 getting nothing from the pve zone and nothing gained in pvp should cross over to the pve zone. True separation would be the only way to achieve harmony. Not possible in TESO as it would take a rewrite of the game.
Agreed. Segregation is needed."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
Travestynox✭✭✭PvE and PvP should become completely seperate.
PvP players should be able to get all their gear and skills levelled (including undaunted) without leaving Cyrodiil, likewise
PvE players should be able to get all their gear and skills levelled (including alliance) without going into Cyrodiil.
No paying player should be forced into a mode of the game they don't like.
3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?
Because (some) players enjoy it.
0 -
EvilCroc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because PvP'ers are bloodthirsty savages and all they want is to gank nice and kind PvE'rs.
And PvE balance of course, yes. Stop nerfs of everything because of PvP!0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Karius_Imalthar wrote: »PvP can get a bit heated and people carry this outside of Cyr? I haven't seen any hostility because of alliance in PvE. I make a point to try not to memorize people's name in PvP so i'm indifferent if I encounter them in PvE.
It's rare but it does happen.
When I was new I joined a PvX guild while on my main (DC) character and then was kicked the next day when they "caught" me logging into an alt in AD. I did explain that they had never told me the guild was DC only (apparently "everyone" knows that guilds are "always" single-alliance). I also told them the alt was a crafter who would never go into Cyrodiil anyway but apparently that still made me a traitor and no decent guild would want anything to do with me.
Fortunately I only wasted part of 1 day on those guys and strangely enough the other 2 PvX guilds I'd joined seemed to think it was perfectly normal to have alts in different alliances (this was before One Tamriel) and said as long as I didn't fight for different sides in the same campaign it's fine.
Since then I've occasionally seen people calling someone a traitor or a spy or otherwise playing up alliance loyalty in PvE maps but it's often hard to tell if they're being sarcastic or in character or if they actually mean it.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Narrow minded views . We are all playing the same game . If you went into a Yoga class and said you played eso but you're a PVE'r , not a filthy PvP'er , the ladies would all look you with the same confused eyeballs .
PVP and PVE all need balancing . Npc's just don't start nerf threads so in PVE a lot of players don't care about being OP .2 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭katiesmith12341 wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »Jemcrystal wrote: »PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?
I think its a lot to do with balancing, as when they try to balance for one group it messes up the other.
Also, pve people sometimes are upset that they want to do they pve side of things in the pvp zone (sometimes).
Other than that not sure what other tension there is.
^^ this
Changing the balance for PVP's normally messes with the balances in PVE...the game is created for players to be able to play both sides, but the balance side of things has never been perfect, as the devs have to try and create a perfect balance between pve and pvp.
There could be a very simple solution for this. What if... just what if... there was a PvE Version of PvP cyrodiil (alliance war zone) ? For example a PvE campaign (of course without ability to get alliance points and alliance war achievements).
Those who just want to do dungeons, skyshards and other quest could just go and do them, without interrupting PvP. And also without the risk of being ganked
Those who want can simply go to normal PvP zone and farm alliance points.0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »katiesmith12341 wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »Jemcrystal wrote: »PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?
I think its a lot to do with balancing, as when they try to balance for one group it messes up the other.
Also, pve people sometimes are upset that they want to do they pve side of things in the pvp zone (sometimes).
Other than that not sure what other tension there is.
^^ this
Changing the balance for PVP's normally messes with the balances in PVE...the game is created for players to be able to play both sides, but the balance side of things has never been perfect, as the devs have to try and create a perfect balance between pve and pvp.
There could be a very simple solution for this. What if... just what if... there was a PvE Version of PvP cyrodiil (alliance war zone) ? For example a PvE campaign (of course without ability to get alliance points and alliance war achievements).
Those who just want to do dungeons, skyshards and other quest could just go and do them, without interrupting PvP. And also without the risk of being ganked
Those who want can simply go to normal PvP zone and farm alliance points.
That solves one side of the issue PvEers not really wanting to PvP.
It won't stop PvE getting messed with to balance PvP though.
The ONLY way to do that is to separate the skills into two versions, one for PvP, one for PvE.
The skill would essentially remain the same, but could be tweaked differently for PvP or PvE.
That way you'd still only really need to learn one set of skill, but they'd react slightly differently to the PvE/PvP environment.
Same could be done with the Proc Sets. Just disable the Proc in PvP, or downgrade its payoff by 50% or whatever.
It would allow better balance overall, and kill 90% of the "why nerf PvE because PvP whines" complaints.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »katiesmith12341 wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »Jemcrystal wrote: »PvP has it's own zone. There are no alliance/faction borders anymore. There should be no reason for PvE'ers to be upset with PvP'ers. Or versa. So does someone want to explain why the hostility between PvP'ers and PvE'ers still exists in this mmorpg?
I think its a lot to do with balancing, as when they try to balance for one group it messes up the other.
Also, pve people sometimes are upset that they want to do they pve side of things in the pvp zone (sometimes).
Other than that not sure what other tension there is.
^^ this
Changing the balance for PVP's normally messes with the balances in PVE...the game is created for players to be able to play both sides, but the balance side of things has never been perfect, as the devs have to try and create a perfect balance between pve and pvp.
There could be a very simple solution for this. What if... just what if... there was a PvE Version of PvP cyrodiil (alliance war zone) ? For example a PvE campaign (of course without ability to get alliance points and alliance war achievements).
Those who just want to do dungeons, skyshards and other quest could just go and do them, without interrupting PvP. And also without the risk of being ganked
Those who want can simply go to normal PvP zone and farm alliance points.
That solves one side of the issue PvEers not really wanting to PvP.
It won't stop PvE getting messed with to balance PvP though.
The ONLY way to do that is to separate the skills into two versions, one for PvP, one for PvE.
The skill would essentially remain the same, but could be tweaked differently for PvP or PvE.
That way you'd still only really need to learn one set of skill, but they'd react slightly differently to the PvE/PvP environment.
Same could be done with the Proc Sets. Just disable the Proc in PvP, or downgrade its payoff by 50% or whatever.
It would allow better balance overall, and kill 90% of the "why nerf PvE because PvP whines" complaints.
All The Best
But then you look through skill nerfs and buffs and their usage in pve/pvp and notice it is not really such a big deal. Most of them can be balanced without affecting one side much (or at all). It usually deliberate choice how they are nerfed that obviously speaks ZoS either didn't care or chose to change skill performance in "the other mode" too.
Its not like they cant nerf just eye of the storm morph, which is obviously centered at PVP. Or nerf proc sets base damage, not crit. Or .. or.. many other things if they felt there is no need to change pve side much. People are complaining for the sake of complaining. They will keep doing so until ZoS stops nerfing and allows everyone play like god with set they grinded year ago, burning every boss mechanic and not changing their rotation ever.Edited by SodanTok on January 26, 2017 1:22PM0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Its not like they cant nerf just eye of the storm morph, which is obviously centered at PVP.
And therein lies the problem.
I never PvP.
I use EotS ALL the time.
It is great for clearing trash packs, and dropping bodies so I can use Repentance to refresh Health and Stamina for the group.
All The BestEdited by Gandrhulf_Harbard on January 26, 2017 1:38PMThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
mr1sho✭✭✭✭✭It's seem to me the toxic relationship is only on the forums PVE players mostly complain about any change to game mechanics while PVP players dislike but adapt to change
Gold Company Commander0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, if you look at almost every 'nerf' in this game, it is all because of PvP. Most of the nerfs had no negative impact in PvE content, nobody in PvE complained, everything was good... but that same ability/function in PvP caused pages and pages of angst in the forums. Instead of making changes that only impacted the ability/function in PvP, no, ZOS developers believe that everything should be exactly the same across PvE/PvP... which in reality is pure laziness on their part. So, what happens is that they nerf the ability/function to appease PvP players, but it seriously negatively impacts the playstyle of many in PvE.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's seem to me the toxic relationship is only on the forums PVE players mostly complain about any change to game mechanics while PVP players dislike but adapt to change
Actually PvE Players tend to only complain about changes made just to suit PvP.
PvE player love changes that make the overall game better, because we tend to be the ones that engage with more of that content more often rather than leveling and grinding just in Cyrodil.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well, if you look at almost every 'nerf' in this game, it is all because of PvP. Most of the nerfs had no negative impact in PvE content, nobody in PvE complained, everything was good... but that same ability/function in PvP caused pages and pages of angst in the forums. Instead of making changes that only impacted the ability/function in PvP, no, ZOS developers believe that everything should be exactly the same across PvE/PvP... which in reality is pure laziness on their part. So, what happens is that they nerf the ability/function to appease PvP players, but it seriously negatively impacts the playstyle of many in PvE.
Ye I wonder why that is?
Must be ZoS' fault for not giving those poor bosses and mobs a forum account to complain about being burned and solo'd and whatever.
Here is how it is: Most PvEers don't complain about stuff overperforming, because they aren't negatively impacted by it. On the contrary, they actually like being super strong. However, PvEers do complain about balance and stuff when some classes/specs/abilities are helplessly outperformed by all the others (which is totally justified imo). The solution for them is to buff the underperforming ones. Which then brings in PvP, where (over)-buffing stuff has a direct negative impact on real humans, not some random NPC. And what are PvPers gonna do when they get nuked by stuff that has barely any (reasonable) counter? They complain and demand nerfs (which is also totally justified imo).
And that's the whole silly PvE vs PvP conflict in a nutshell.Edited by Wollust on January 26, 2017 2:13PMSusano'o
Zerg Squad1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, if you look at almost every 'nerf' in this game, it is all because of PvP. Most of the nerfs had no negative impact in PvE content, nobody in PvE complained, everything was good... but that same ability/function in PvP caused pages and pages of angst in the forums. Instead of making changes that only impacted the ability/function in PvP, no, ZOS developers believe that everything should be exactly the same across PvE/PvP... which in reality is pure laziness on their part. So, what happens is that they nerf the ability/function to appease PvP players, but it seriously negatively impacts the playstyle of many in PvE.
Ye I wonder why that is?
Must be ZoS' fault for not giving those poor bosses and mobs a forum account to complain about being burned and solo'd and whatever.
Here is how it is: Most PvEers don't complain about stuff overperforming, because they aren't negatively impacted by it. On the contrary, they actually like being super strong. However, PvEers do complain about balance and stuff when some classes/specs/abilities are helplessly outperformed by all the others (which is totally justified imo). The solution for them is to buff the underperforming ones. Which then brings in PvP, where (over)-buffing stuff has a direct negative impact on real humans, not some random NPC. And what are PvPers gonna do when they get nuked by stuff that has barely any (reasonable) counter? They complain and demand (rightfully) nerfs.
Or ZOS could do the RIGHT thing and separate the two, and make any adjustments to PvP ONLY. The ability/function would still behave the same, it is just that the damage/adjustment would be different. ZOS' justification for not doing this is lame and pure laziness, they don't want to have two versions of abilities/functions so they make up the excuse that they 'want the abilities to be seamless across the board'... but the reality is, they would be seamless, just one would have an adjustment to the stats. They act like it would be completely changing how the ability works or that it would entail new animations, etc... but all PvE players want is to stop being shackled by PvP.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, if you look at almost every 'nerf' in this game, it is all because of PvP. Most of the nerfs had no negative impact in PvE content, nobody in PvE complained, everything was good... but that same ability/function in PvP caused pages and pages of angst in the forums. Instead of making changes that only impacted the ability/function in PvP, no, ZOS developers believe that everything should be exactly the same across PvE/PvP... which in reality is pure laziness on their part. So, what happens is that they nerf the ability/function to appease PvP players, but it seriously negatively impacts the playstyle of many in PvE.
Ye I wonder why that is?
Must be ZoS' fault for not giving those poor bosses and mobs a forum account to complain about being burned and solo'd and whatever.
Here is how it is: Most PvEers don't complain about stuff overperforming, because they aren't negatively impacted by it. On the contrary, they actually like being super strong. However, PvEers do complain about balance and stuff when some classes/specs/abilities are helplessly outperformed by all the others (which is totally justified imo). The solution for them is to buff the underperforming ones. Which then brings in PvP, where (over)-buffing stuff has a direct negative impact on real humans, not some random NPC. And what are PvPers gonna do when they get nuked by stuff that has barely any (reasonable) counter? They complain and demand (rightfully) nerfs.
And that's the whole silly PvE vs PvP conflict in a nutshell.
This is why segregation of content is needed. Neither side should influence or affect the other."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."2 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well, if you look at almost every 'nerf' in this game, it is all because of PvP. Most of the nerfs had no negative impact in PvE content, nobody in PvE complained, everything was good... but that same ability/function in PvP caused pages and pages of angst in the forums. Instead of making changes that only impacted the ability/function in PvP, no, ZOS developers believe that everything should be exactly the same across PvE/PvP... which in reality is pure laziness on their part. So, what happens is that they nerf the ability/function to appease PvP players, but it seriously negatively impacts the playstyle of many in PvE.
Ye I wonder why that is?
Must be ZoS' fault for not giving those poor bosses and mobs a forum account to complain about being burned and solo'd and whatever.
Here is how it is: Most PvEers don't complain about stuff overperforming, because they aren't negatively impacted by it. On the contrary, they actually like being super strong. However, PvEers do complain about balance and stuff when some classes/specs/abilities are helplessly outperformed by all the others (which is totally justified imo). The solution for them is to buff the underperforming ones. Which then brings in PvP, where (over)-buffing stuff has a direct negative impact on real humans, not some random NPC. And what are PvPers gonna do when they get nuked by stuff that has barely any (reasonable) counter? They complain and demand (rightfully) nerfs.
And that's the whole silly PvE vs PvP conflict in a nutshell.
This is why segregation of content is needed. Neither side should influence or affect the other.
Maybe if you keep repeating it they'll listen someday. But honestly, I don't think they'll ever do it.Susano'o
Zerg Squad0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, if you look at almost every 'nerf' in this game, it is all because of PvP. Most of the nerfs had no negative impact in PvE content, nobody in PvE complained, everything was good... but that same ability/function in PvP caused pages and pages of angst in the forums. Instead of making changes that only impacted the ability/function in PvP, no, ZOS developers believe that everything should be exactly the same across PvE/PvP... which in reality is pure laziness on their part. So, what happens is that they nerf the ability/function to appease PvP players, but it seriously negatively impacts the playstyle of many in PvE.
Ye I wonder why that is?
Must be ZoS' fault for not giving those poor bosses and mobs a forum account to complain about being burned and solo'd and whatever.
Here is how it is: Most PvEers don't complain about stuff overperforming, because they aren't negatively impacted by it. On the contrary, they actually like being super strong. However, PvEers do complain about balance and stuff when some classes/specs/abilities are helplessly outperformed by all the others (which is totally justified imo). The solution for them is to buff the underperforming ones. Which then brings in PvP, where (over)-buffing stuff has a direct negative impact on real humans, not some random NPC. And what are PvPers gonna do when they get nuked by stuff that has barely any (reasonable) counter? They complain and demand (rightfully) nerfs.
And that's the whole silly PvE vs PvP conflict in a nutshell.
This is why segregation of content is needed. Neither side should influence or affect the other.
Maybe if you keep repeating it they'll listen someday. But honestly, I don't think they'll ever do it.
Good point.
Oh well. Time (and Meta) marches on.
"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0