Zakor wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Zakor wrote: »

What is this? If you like the game you should invest into it and if only to support the devs or keep the servers running. So if you like the game and want to get endcontent/dlc gear, support the damn game with a bit of your money. Seriously...

Problem is it goes like this, 1) buy the DLC, 2) run the content hundreds of times, 3) never see the drop you are working for. There needs to be an alternate path so that hours and hours and hours of time out in can eventually get some payout.

Mojmir wrote: »

Zakor wrote: »

What is this? If you like the game you should invest into it and if only to support the devs or keep the servers running. So if you like the game and want to get endcontent/dlc gear, support the damn game with a bit of your money. Seriously...

How the hell does grinding for weps in a dungeon support the game? Should I get a sponsorship from mountain dew and run for charity?

I don't think you understood OP nor me. OP wants to make DLC gear available outside of DLC which should never happen since people just won't buy most of DLC anymore since they can just get the stuff from AH.

The grind is bad, byuing DLC is good. If you don't understand what you vote for don't vote for it.

DLC gear should be BoE but only able to Equip if you have access to DLC where it generates.

No - quit being cheap and support the game, if you want the content or BOP items from DLC zones, pay like the rest of us.

Without the expansions (DLC), you already have access to more in ESO than just about any game I've played - you can max CP (level), use the highest gear, farm the top materials, craft the highest gear, etc.

Go play other games and whether they call it DLC or expansion or digital update, if you don't buy the latest update and / or subscribe, your not only can't access the content, you usually can't even reach max level / equip top level gear.

EDIT TO ADD: Since the thread seems to have derailed into a debate about BoE as a way to deal with RNG and the crappy trait system, I'll just add my 'NO' to making drops from instance content BoE.

The solution to bloated loot tables, crappy traits, ridiculous trait / weapon combos is to clean up the loot tables, better balance traits, only drop relevant trait / weapon combinations, and remove non-combat traits from dropped gear.

If you want the items from whatever part of the game - go do the content, and if that content is a paid DLC, they buy it or sub.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

Fair enough. But the game shouldn't put the players in a situation where they have to say, "I would like this item, but I'll never know what I have to do to get it." This is bad rng.

It should be, "if I do this, I'll eventually get the item I would like because this is what I know I have to accomplish." Doesn't mean it has to be easy to accomplish, but the task should be known.

It is also a lot more rewarding to know what the objective is from the start and work toward that goal than to know it is purely luck if the goal is accomplished or not.

Huh. U know exactly what you have to do.

In this case it's a specific boss in a specific dungeon. It's a small pool of possibilities compared to the old ways of dungeons which was millions of possibilities now reduced to hundreds or thousands depending on the desired item.

But then there's 4 ppl so the odds aren't that bad by comparison.

Like when I played WoW and 2 items would drop or maybe 5 but it's 25 ppl and u gotta roll against them

You don't know how many times you have to do it so you don't know what you have to do.

@Zvorgin

You know exactly what you have to do.
That's known.

Please tell me how many runs it will take to get a 2h weapon.

Zvorgin wrote: »

Zakor wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Zakor wrote: »

What is this? If you like the game you should invest into it and if only to support the devs or keep the servers running. So if you like the game and want to get endcontent/dlc gear, support the damn game with a bit of your money. Seriously...

Problem is it goes like this, 1) buy the DLC, 2) run the content hundreds of times, 3) never see the drop you are working for. There needs to be an alternate path so that hours and hours and hours of time out in can eventually get some payout.

Mojmir wrote: »

Zakor wrote: »

What is this? If you like the game you should invest into it and if only to support the devs or keep the servers running. So if you like the game and want to get endcontent/dlc gear, support the damn game with a bit of your money. Seriously...

How the hell does grinding for weps in a dungeon support the game? Should I get a sponsorship from mountain dew and run for charity?

I don't think you understood OP nor me. OP wants to make DLC gear available outside of DLC which should never happen since people just won't buy most of DLC anymore since they can just get the stuff from AH.

The grind is bad, byuing DLC is good. If you don't understand what you vote for don't vote for it.

DLC gear should be BoE but only able to Equip if you have access to DLC where it generates.

Better actually.

Mojmir wrote: »

Try reading and understanding the game better.
Monster set vendor is in cyrodiil,available to everyone and has had dlc sets in the rotation
Willpower/agility drops in dlc content,it's BoE
I'm not gonna quote myself, but I think you'll find I'm against vma drops being BOE and totally against the current RNG system.
Craglorn trials are in the base game,no dlc,BOP.

The next update,BIS gear "burning spell weaver" is in a base game dungeon.BOP
So, I ask again
Wth does grinding a dungeon do to support the game?

I'm also against RNG or grinding but think of the following:

As long as you grind you need supplies (food, pots, we). Some players craft them themself, some buy them (+ for ingame economy). If you craft them you may buy or farm the stuff needed to do so (more playtime). While you grind you may help others getting through that dungeons (+for other players). And at some point of this chain you will find someone who bought crowns, dlc and whatnot, if to run the specific dungeon or for fun or whatever. All these points support the game. Economy is clear I assume. More playtime also supports the game since it shows the players interest in the game which determines the amount of money spend on dev side! Creating happiness for other players is also self explanatory.

And now don't come at me with BoE DLC sets would also create happiness. Maybe they would. But all other points would be badly hurt the directly moment that gets implemented. Maybe YOU should try to understand things better next time. Think of the greater scope instead of only you not having to farm anymore. And that vendor in cyro is no reliable source for those sets. Maybe you're lucky, maybe you wait for weeks. So no to that.

Furthermore, I'm for some kind of token system so there is a cap for grinding.

instead of this you could request a smarter RNG system, that way game wouldn't become easier and people would also get what they want through smarter systems like tokens. otherwise whoever farms gold can also get the best set without touching dungeons.. which doesn't really make sense (in my opinion).

Zvorgin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

Fair enough. But the game shouldn't put the players in a situation where they have to say, "I would like this item, but I'll never know what I have to do to get it." This is bad rng.

It should be, "if I do this, I'll eventually get the item I would like because this is what I know I have to accomplish." Doesn't mean it has to be easy to accomplish, but the task should be known.

It is also a lot more rewarding to know what the objective is from the start and work toward that goal than to know it is purely luck if the goal is accomplished or not.

Huh. U know exactly what you have to do.

In this case it's a specific boss in a specific dungeon. It's a small pool of possibilities compared to the old ways of dungeons which was millions of possibilities now reduced to hundreds or thousands depending on the desired item.

But then there's 4 ppl so the odds aren't that bad by comparison.

Like when I played WoW and 2 items would drop or maybe 5 but it's 25 ppl and u gotta roll against them

You don't know how many times you have to do it so you don't know what you have to do.

@Zvorgin

You know exactly what you have to do.
That's known.

Please tell me how many runs it will take to get a 2h weapon.

How many times....depends on how "you" decide to go about it. But there's actually a mathematical calculation if you're really interested in finding out your chances but that all depends on "how you" go about it.

Is it 4 ppl helping u get loot or all of u sharing drops or are some looking for trait specific types, are you doing Vet.....

(I see the issue tho....you're making it complicated and frustrating). If you're not enjoying the path to the goal you have in mind stop and do something else.

This is funny to me that you think that the issue with the rng mechanic is the players' fault. Even with 4 all factors consistent, you can't "know" but can only come up with a best guess.

It also isn't complicated, it is extremely easy, just mindlessly repetitive. That's the issue with rng in this game across the board.

When I run a daily dungeon and get a good item that a friend wants but isn't there, I can't give it to them even if that have run the dungeon countless times. That's dumb.

You are giving ways to increase odds, I don't disagree with them, they are true, but they still just odds.

@Zvorgin

sorry if you've gathered a different idea. That's not what my comments intend to suggest. None of my comments suggest that the developers choice of RNG is the players faught.

I've wrote and I'll write again..."your frustrations are the result of your choices and desired or expected outcomes".

People are choosing to go after items in ways that aren't fun or enjoyable and then later complain about RNG.

It's treasure hunting and it's a pretty good game. If you want it, you get to go find it and lucking that can be shared with many others.

It's your opinion "again choices" that it's dumb because you can't share items you find with others who aren't there.

Perhaps changing your point of view helps and being thoughtful to go about runs.

Zvorgin wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

If the items were BoE, I could do something I enjoy to earn gold and then get the item I wanted while someone else got the item running a dungeon they enjoy and made gold from the sale.

How is that a bad thing? Let people enjoy what they enjoy doing and don't make people get forced into deciding between having fun and living without an item or having to grind rng for items when the dungeons generally aren't that entertaining after the first handful of runs.

@Zvorgin

It's a bad thing to try and give ppl what they want without thought of consequence.

Your thoughts are a bit extreme tho just keep at it and I'll get it

Bring back BOE - the fact that I simply deconstruct most of these BOP items when they could be given/traded/sold to friends and guildies is just a pain and puts me off running dungeons, even undaunted pledges. I used to run the pledges on several characters but only run them now on my characters that have not yet leveled the undaunted skill lines.

Presumably the switch to BOP was done because people did not want others being able to buy what they could not obtain themselves. The fact that you could run content dozens of times without getting the piece you want was forgotten with the change to BOP.

Do I care if someone buys a piece instead of running the dungeon to get it - not in the slightest. If you want to pay fortune for a piece of armour or weapon, go ahead, makes no difference to me.

Besides, it appears to me that there are fewer and fewer people running dungeons these days, maybe because you only need to run them to farm for the gear you want and nobody is running them to get stuff to sell. Once you have what you want at end game, why run it again?