NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Several replies

@Recremen said "@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway..."
Don't think i said they were useless. Big gulf between useless and not where they should be based on expense. So moving on...

@NewBlacksmurf said "Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.
If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders..."

and also this "So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?"


look, is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame potions are crafted? is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame food is crafted? Is anybody out of sorts over the fact that *ALL* the endgame enchantments/glyphs or poisons on weapons are crafted?

No?

Hmmm...

No hue and cry that "if we dont have to adventure for endgame potions why bother getting out of bed?"

No?

those 60 some points spent in alchemy and enchanting and provisioning serve vital key lynchpin roles all thru the system and into endgame and once in endgame they are key, they are the answer, they are the go to.

But the 60 some points spent on smithing, carving and stitching... plus the huge hits in motif collection and trait research time - folks seem fine with the notion that "hey, cant have those being endgame ready" logic.

When enchantments got so underwhelming that the folks at ZOS saw a number of folks not even bothering to enchant their weapons in play and saw enchanting less learned than the other crafts - they gave a massive uptick to enchantments.

But the key thing about my position is this: i am not asking for a massive uptick to these crafts. i am not asking for all these sets to be made maelstrom equivalent or such.

What i am asking for is for them to get back to where they were and a unique set of options that the drops cannot duplicate. i want them to not go to the front of the line racing ahead of drop sets but to be riding in the same car sitting right beside them.

So, yeah, this does mean some corrections need to be made - not just fix the bad sets cuz both drops and crafteds have those - but bringing stuff to balance and giving them unique...

Into balance:
10x cost for cp160 craft - before 1T and esp when the 10x came out there were almost no cp160/vet16 drops. Crafted gave you the almost unique ability to get there at massive cost in mats. now, every tom drop and harry set falls at 160 but crafted is still at 10x. this needs to be fixed.
Up-scale gear level - before 1T drops and crafted would get out-leveld by you as your level advanced. A given set would also be out-leveled because it tended to be in a given range or two of levels. Now, as you go up in levels so do the drops you find. if you want veiled heritance just keep playing in its zones and find pieces at higher levels as you advance. So to restore the parity that was there pre-1T, let crafters take existing crafted sets and "raise their level" in a form of partial recrafting which allows them to retain the quality.

Both of these are intended to just keep the sort of balance that was there before 1T gave drop sets a major boost in availability across levels. i mean even before 1T jewels were a big advantage for drop sets but then not every set had jewels, now they do. So that unique edge got even bigger.

UNIQUE for Both:
Right now in 1T with every drop set having jewels and every drop set scaling to 160 (exception for maelstrom/master/monster) that "jewels unique to drops" thing got a major boost.
Add in the other UNIQUE TO DROPS (1-2pc monster body sets, 2-3pc jewel/wpn sets, maelstrom, master) and its easy to seer that drop sets are absolutely going to have a place in the endgame gear layout no matter what.

because the drop sets have so many different ways to enter that picture that crafted cannot do at all - there is no way anybody is ever gonna be posting "top endgame builds" without drop sets - right? not even "good enough for endgame" will be posting with "no drop pieces"...

Thats fine of course - drop sets should be a part of the game at all levels and in the end game.

But you know, so should crafted sets esp after spending 20-60ish skills to be able to make them.

Right now the only unique thing crafted sets have is cosmetic - appearance - and folks are lining up to give that over to drop sets too with threads upon threads by the drop sets hunter-gatherer crowds.

What i suggest is you should also have a practical substantive capability unique to crafteds that will give them a place at the endgame table right alongside the drop sets whose place is GUARANTEED by their unique configurations.

So, for that i propose 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpn sets able to be crafted.
These dont exist now - so nothing is being taken away from drops.
These dont exist now so they create a lot of options for new build structures beyond the 5-5-2 or 4-4-2-1/1 or the 5-3-2-2 we have now.

These can be brought into existance with a simple change - allow at crafting a crafter to drop one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from a set creating a "short set" letting them drop away some of the "off" bonuses of the weaker sets. That functionally doubles the number of "crafted sets" available in one instant which helsp to address the massive number of new drops from 1T.

Now, sure, not every endgame build will choose to use 3pc bw or 4pc bw but the options would be there and they would be unique to crafted - which ought to be enough to keep them more than just three or four sets that some builds can use.

It also has a balancing benefit within the crafteds -

the top end crafted sets are that way now because all their bonuses work together - so dropping off one useful bonus is kind of a win-lose thing.

but many of the weaker crafted sets are that way in part because their traits dont all sync together and dropping off the odd-man-out will be a boon to them.

but thats why i keep coming back to unique.

not interested in trying to replace drops sets with numerically superior crafteds making drops obsolete.

interested in setting it up so each class of gear brings its own unique elements and where both are vital parts of the game at every level - endgame included.

@STEVIL

You're missing it.

Endgame....whatever you consider that to be. Food, potions, enchants are only accessible after obtaining the recipe or materials from running harder content or from buying things from people who sale the loot.

What you're saying about crafting sets doesn't align.

The 7-9 trait sets are definately endgame viable but their purpose is to get you to endgame and not replace best in slot as best in slot should only come from doing the content.

The only thing I'd be open to are crafting stations inside of content progression which already exists. Just wait for more dlc.

There isn't a problem with crafting sets to where they need boosting.

Just like ingredients needs for potions or food require doing "endgame" to access the recipe or unlock passives and or writs to find the missing pieces.

Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.

Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear.

why would ppl do anything or buy anything. That's killing everything

@NewBlacksmurf

Potions, glyphs foods - those recipes/ingredients/etc can be acquired in casual play - once you hit the level and have spent the skills you can get endgame level crafteds that make drops obsolete for those three crafts. Just like crafted equip - there are mats involved but these only require casual play not any sort of tough content to get to.

yet, nobody seems to have an issue with crafted potions, glyphs, poisons, foods being go-to for endgame over their drop equivalents.

As for this:
"Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.
Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear."

I can only guess you did not read my post.

• Since my proposal did not include adding crafted jewels - drop jewels would still be BIS - not crafted - including the unique jewl/wpn 3pc.
• Since my proposal did not propose raising any of the top end crafted sets above where they are now or to VMSA or monster levels, those drops would remain BiS for those builds.
• Since my proposal would explicitly leave it impossible to outfit a full character set of gear using only crafted, there would always be a need to go out and do content to gather drops.

Its Ok we dont have to agree.

@STEVIL
Potions, enchants and food cannot be acquired from casual play in terms of endgame which is the context you're making for crafted sets.

Yellow food, yellow enchants or the rune locked b hung tel car stones and killing the goblin in sewers as well as recipes from writs which can only be done if you have a plethora of materials to throw away.

I did read your post in full but somehow you seem to think that your definition of endgame applies to everyone. It doesn't.

Some ppl run in 5 trait gear and do Vet dungeons quit well below 200 Cp and that's their endgame

The next person may consider doing crafting writs endgame.

Another person may consider yellow material collecting is their endgame

While there are still those who consider Vet trials endgame


Your idea directly negates the point of going out and playing which as result impacts the market and will have influence on large amount of players no longer needing to play the game cause if I can just buy crafted gear or buy trait gear, research and then make endgame gear myself. Why would I do anything else?

Which leads to what's the point if I can just craft it....there's no content for it cause I just made it.

Crafted gear is within a tier system and where it's at today is a good place. Once more dlc hits, we'll see more crafting sets which tend to be better than current. That seems to be the trend.

It's just been over 6 months since new sets hit or longer.

AdamBourke wrote: »

Yes - although I would prefer crafting previews first!

I mean... furniture crafting has previews - the models for the equipments already exist. Stick them on mannequins and make them previewable!

STEVIL wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Several replies

@Recremen said "@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway..."
Don't think i said they were useless. Big gulf between useless and not where they should be based on expense. So moving on...

@NewBlacksmurf said "Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.
If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders..."

and also this "So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?"


look, is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame potions are crafted? is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame food is crafted? Is anybody out of sorts over the fact that *ALL* the endgame enchantments/glyphs or poisons on weapons are crafted?

No?

Hmmm...

No hue and cry that "if we dont have to adventure for endgame potions why bother getting out of bed?"

No?

those 60 some points spent in alchemy and enchanting and provisioning serve vital key lynchpin roles all thru the system and into endgame and once in endgame they are key, they are the answer, they are the go to.

But the 60 some points spent on smithing, carving and stitching... plus the huge hits in motif collection and trait research time - folks seem fine with the notion that "hey, cant have those being endgame ready" logic.

When enchantments got so underwhelming that the folks at ZOS saw a number of folks not even bothering to enchant their weapons in play and saw enchanting less learned than the other crafts - they gave a massive uptick to enchantments.

But the key thing about my position is this: i am not asking for a massive uptick to these crafts. i am not asking for all these sets to be made maelstrom equivalent or such.

What i am asking for is for them to get back to where they were and a unique set of options that the drops cannot duplicate. i want them to not go to the front of the line racing ahead of drop sets but to be riding in the same car sitting right beside them.

So, yeah, this does mean some corrections need to be made - not just fix the bad sets cuz both drops and crafteds have those - but bringing stuff to balance and giving them unique...

Into balance:
10x cost for cp160 craft - before 1T and esp when the 10x came out there were almost no cp160/vet16 drops. Crafted gave you the almost unique ability to get there at massive cost in mats. now, every tom drop and harry set falls at 160 but crafted is still at 10x. this needs to be fixed.
Up-scale gear level - before 1T drops and crafted would get out-leveld by you as your level advanced. A given set would also be out-leveled because it tended to be in a given range or two of levels. Now, as you go up in levels so do the drops you find. if you want veiled heritance just keep playing in its zones and find pieces at higher levels as you advance. So to restore the parity that was there pre-1T, let crafters take existing crafted sets and "raise their level" in a form of partial recrafting which allows them to retain the quality.

Both of these are intended to just keep the sort of balance that was there before 1T gave drop sets a major boost in availability across levels. i mean even before 1T jewels were a big advantage for drop sets but then not every set had jewels, now they do. So that unique edge got even bigger.

UNIQUE for Both:
Right now in 1T with every drop set having jewels and every drop set scaling to 160 (exception for maelstrom/master/monster) that "jewels unique to drops" thing got a major boost.
Add in the other UNIQUE TO DROPS (1-2pc monster body sets, 2-3pc jewel/wpn sets, maelstrom, master) and its easy to seer that drop sets are absolutely going to have a place in the endgame gear layout no matter what.

because the drop sets have so many different ways to enter that picture that crafted cannot do at all - there is no way anybody is ever gonna be posting "top endgame builds" without drop sets - right? not even "good enough for endgame" will be posting with "no drop pieces"...

Thats fine of course - drop sets should be a part of the game at all levels and in the end game.

But you know, so should crafted sets esp after spending 20-60ish skills to be able to make them.

Right now the only unique thing crafted sets have is cosmetic - appearance - and folks are lining up to give that over to drop sets too with threads upon threads by the drop sets hunter-gatherer crowds.

What i suggest is you should also have a practical substantive capability unique to crafteds that will give them a place at the endgame table right alongside the drop sets whose place is GUARANTEED by their unique configurations.

So, for that i propose 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpn sets able to be crafted.
These dont exist now - so nothing is being taken away from drops.
These dont exist now so they create a lot of options for new build structures beyond the 5-5-2 or 4-4-2-1/1 or the 5-3-2-2 we have now.

These can be brought into existance with a simple change - allow at crafting a crafter to drop one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from a set creating a "short set" letting them drop away some of the "off" bonuses of the weaker sets. That functionally doubles the number of "crafted sets" available in one instant which helsp to address the massive number of new drops from 1T.

Now, sure, not every endgame build will choose to use 3pc bw or 4pc bw but the options would be there and they would be unique to crafted - which ought to be enough to keep them more than just three or four sets that some builds can use.

It also has a balancing benefit within the crafteds -

the top end crafted sets are that way now because all their bonuses work together - so dropping off one useful bonus is kind of a win-lose thing.

but many of the weaker crafted sets are that way in part because their traits dont all sync together and dropping off the odd-man-out will be a boon to them.

but thats why i keep coming back to unique.

not interested in trying to replace drops sets with numerically superior crafteds making drops obsolete.

interested in setting it up so each class of gear brings its own unique elements and where both are vital parts of the game at every level - endgame included.

@STEVIL

You're missing it.

Endgame....whatever you consider that to be. Food, potions, enchants are only accessible after obtaining the recipe or materials from running harder content or from buying things from people who sale the loot.

What you're saying about crafting sets doesn't align.

The 7-9 trait sets are definately endgame viable but their purpose is to get you to endgame and not replace best in slot as best in slot should only come from doing the content.

The only thing I'd be open to are crafting stations inside of content progression which already exists. Just wait for more dlc.

There isn't a problem with crafting sets to where they need boosting.

Just like ingredients needs for potions or food require doing "endgame" to access the recipe or unlock passives and or writs to find the missing pieces.

Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.

Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear.

why would ppl do anything or buy anything. That's killing everything

@NewBlacksmurf

Potions, glyphs foods - those recipes/ingredients/etc can be acquired in casual play - once you hit the level and have spent the skills you can get endgame level crafteds that make drops obsolete for those three crafts. Just like crafted equip - there are mats involved but these only require casual play not any sort of tough content to get to.

yet, nobody seems to have an issue with crafted potions, glyphs, poisons, foods being go-to for endgame over their drop equivalents.

As for this:
"Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.
Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear."

I can only guess you did not read my post.

• Since my proposal did not include adding crafted jewels - drop jewels would still be BIS - not crafted - including the unique jewl/wpn 3pc.
• Since my proposal did not propose raising any of the top end crafted sets above where they are now or to VMSA or monster levels, those drops would remain BiS for those builds.
• Since my proposal would explicitly leave it impossible to outfit a full character set of gear using only crafted, there would always be a need to go out and do content to gather drops.

Its Ok we dont have to agree.

@STEVIL
Potions, enchants and food cannot be acquired from casual play in terms of endgame which is the context you're making for crafted sets.

Yellow food, yellow enchants or the rune locked b hung tel car stones and killing the goblin in sewers as well as recipes from writs which can only be done if you have a plethora of materials to throw away.

I did read your post in full but somehow you seem to think that your definition of endgame applies to everyone. It doesn't.

Some ppl run in 5 trait gear and do Vet dungeons quit well below 200 Cp and that's their endgame

The next person may consider doing crafting writs endgame.

Another person may consider yellow material collecting is their endgame

While there are still those who consider Vet trials endgame


Your idea directly negates the point of going out and playing which as result impacts the market and will have influence on large amount of players no longer needing to play the game cause if I can just buy crafted gear or buy trait gear, research and then make endgame gear myself. Why would I do anything else?

Which leads to what's the point if I can just craft it....there's no content for it cause I just made it.

Crafted gear is within a tier system and where it's at today is a good place. Once more dlc hits, we'll see more crafting sets which tend to be better than current. That seems to be the trend.

It's just been over 6 months since new sets hit or longer.

@NewBlacksmurf
"Potions, enchants and food cannot be acquired from casual play in terms of endgame which is the context you're making for crafted sets. "

baffling this statement is?

Ok for the sake of argument since you seem to want to haggle over endgame definitions - i will toss out this broad definition:
"Top end" will apply to cp150-160 leveled gear or content sufficient for most to complete with reasonable chance of success all the content in the game including trials and dungeons and arenas. Not necessarily requiring top leaderboards but reasonable performance. Whether or not someone chooses to take on that content has no effoect on whether the gear is considered "top end." The fact that some players can for instance run VMSA in white quality trainee sets doesnt mean white trainee sets are top-end.

Now to your baffling context thing about consumables.

My context is and has been:
Consumables drops are inferior to consumables crafteds.
At "top end" all the builds/setups rely exclusively on crafteds for consumables - inc enchants.
You can gather all the stuff you need for top end consumable crafting in casual play. You can craft them anywhere.
You invest about 20ish skills into consumable crafting per skill line and can get them up in a day if you have the mats.
Nobody seems to think thats a bad thing, argues that kills the game or makes folks not want to play content.

Equipment drops are as good as Equipment crafteds. (For both some this is better than other that but the basic scaling for them is identical.
At top end *NO* builds/setups rely exclusively on crafteds but some do rely exclusively on drops. This is because in part drops have multiple unique capabilities that crafteds cannot provide.
You can gather all the stuff you need for "top end crafting" in casual play BUT you cannot craft them anywhere - some of the top-end sets are only DLC for instance - Julianos.
You invest about 20ish skills into crafting equip per skill lines and while you can craft them up to 50 in a day if you have the stuff to decon etc - you cannot master the traits without a massive outlay in time and motifs are a whole other story.

thats the context between crafted consumables and crafted equip - both cost the same minimum but one set gets you top end exclusive while the other gets you maybe some participation in top end.


"Your idea directly negates the point of going out and playing which as result impacts the market and will have influence on large amount of players no longer needing to play the game cause if I can just buy crafted gear or buy trait gear, research and then make endgame gear myself. Why would I do anything else?"

As for the above - again - i am in no way coming anywhere close to saying anything that would do what you keep claiming.

My proposal leaves monster sets, jewels, maelstroms and masters all as drop set exclusives and as top tier top end stuff... stuff you cannot craft but have to go get.

My proposal also leaves the top end top tier drop sets that are inn favor just as they are - able to be hunter-gathered.

my proposal even leaves it possible to have a fully outfitted EQUIPMENT top end setup with no crafted equip at all - like it is now.

My proposal simply addresses some of the logistical changes after 1T and creates new unique alternatives for 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpns crafted sets that give a unique capability to crafted sets that doesn't exist now but which would not become mandatory.

how you keep construing and contorting that into not needing drops so not needing to ever go play is baffling.

Tapio75 wrote: »

All this talk about gear and endgame is total nonsense.


System that allows player to look how they want, has nothing to do with endgame or crafting as much as it does with people having freedom to make their characters look how they wish them to look and what suits that characters biography.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

All this talk about gear and endgame is total nonsense.


System that allows player to look how they want, has nothing to do with endgame or crafting as much as it does with people having freedom to make their characters look how they wish them to look and what suits that characters biography.

Tapio has it right. Restyling has nothing to do with endgame. If you believe the crafted sets are underwhelming - then that is an entirely different issue. To try and use that as a reason restyling shouldn't be added makes no sense to me. Though to be honest I find the Twice Born Star set to be excellent. It's both effective and versatile and rivals any dropped set I've encountered thus far.

I agree but had to seek understanding cause different points of view are important to consider

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yep so let's go back to it.

I'm thinking a larger adjustment but to enable restyling using the crafting stations, style item, known motif and artwork that today we see as the material tiers(remove the tiers and keep the artwork)

Thoughts?

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces."

Toolzy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yep so let's go back to it.

I'm thinking a larger adjustment but to enable restyling using the crafting stations, style item, known motif and artwork that today we see as the material tiers(remove the tiers and keep the artwork)

Thoughts?

I did have a thought a few days ago until @STEVIL kept hijacking the thread with the same thing he's been posting on here.

Here was my idea ... and I was actually trying to put value to what @STEVIL said in here,

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces."

My idea was to exclusively allow Master bs/cloth/woodworkers to reforge/retailor/recarve items with motifs that are only known to them. STEVIL's been arguing that the only thing unique to crafters is controls of how it looks. So wouldn't this idea give crafters more value?

Let's say you are the only one that has the Akaviri motif (it'll take at least 2M gold to buy all the motifs via Alliance Credits) and I wanted that motif. You can very well charge me a crazy amount plus mats to "restyle" my gear. Here are the conditions for restyling said gear:

1. The Master Crafter must have knowledge of the motif.
2. Restyling gear can only be applied to crafted gear or dropped gear that follows user accessible motif

Some people asked me in my thread how can you restyle it if it's bound. Easy...the trade UI. Instead of actually trading, I can place my set piece on the UI with the mats required to restyle it. The Master Crafter, assuming he/she knows the motif, can click on "Apply".

Again...this has nothing to do with min/max stats. It's just cosmetic.

Jeremy wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

All this talk about gear and endgame is total nonsense.


System that allows player to look how they want, has nothing to do with endgame or crafting as much as it does with people having freedom to make their characters look how they wish them to look and what suits that characters biography.

Tapio has it right. Restyling has nothing to do with endgame. If you believe the crafted sets are underwhelming - then that is an entirely different issue. To try and use that as a reason restyling shouldn't be added makes no sense to me. Though to be honest I find the Twice Born Star set to be excellent. It's both effective and versatile and rivals any dropped set I've encountered thus far.

Also - even as a crafter using a crafted set - having to spend a fortune to craft a new legendary piece just so you can change the look isn't entirely reasonable either. So either way - when using dropped or crafted sets - I believe this change should have happened yesterday.

Toolzy wrote: »

Too much elitism happening in a thread that's simply asking if people want "restyling" to happen. This same thing happened to a thread I started a few days ago.

Keep it simple.

You could say that the dropped sets have better stats but there are still some of us like tanks that will need crafted gear mixed with dropped sets to get the right stats. Why shouldn't I be able to restyle my Tava's Favor any time I want? You didn't pay for my game. You aren't paying for my sub. IMO, I want a restyle/transmog system put in place.

Going back to the OP, "Do you want restyling in game?" No more of this endgame talk [snip]. If you want to debate and whine about stats between crafted vs. dropped sets, then go start your own thread instead of hijacking them.

[Edited for bypassing censor]

STEVIL wrote: »

I agreed from the get go you should be able to change the look on your tava favor.

First post

"No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets."

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Toolzy wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I agreed from the get go you should be able to change the look on your tava favor.

First post

"No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets."

I'm confused. You agreed from the get go, but voted no to the idea of having a transmog/restyle system in the game.

He wants crafting to be addressed and not bypassed by restyling. Basically I'd add in my own thoughts here.
ZOS has tendency to make changes on something and not go back to finish it for 9 months or longer so he wants crafting sets attended to as it's been over a year but in this update they are adjusting dropped sets only.

Toolzy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yep so let's go back to it.

I'm thinking a larger adjustment but to enable restyling using the crafting stations, style item, known motif and artwork that today we see as the material tiers(remove the tiers and keep the artwork)

Thoughts?

I did have a thought a few days ago until @STEVIL kept hijacking the thread with the same thing he's been posting on here.

Here was my idea ... and I was actually trying to put value to what @STEVIL said in here,

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces."

My idea was to exclusively allow Master bs/cloth/woodworkers to reforge/retailor/recarve items with motifs that are only known to them. STEVIL's been arguing that the only thing unique to crafters is controls of how it looks. So wouldn't this idea give crafters more value?

Let's say you are the only one that has the Akaviri motif (it'll take at least 2M gold to buy all the motifs via Alliance Credits) and I wanted that motif. You can very well charge me a crazy amount plus mats to "restyle" my gear. Here are the conditions for restyling said gear:

1. The Master Crafter must have knowledge of the motif.
2. Restyling gear can only be applied to crafted gear or dropped gear that follows user accessible motif

Some people asked me in my thread how can you restyle it if it's bound. Easy...the trade UI. Instead of actually trading, I can place my set piece on the UI with the mats required to restyle it. The Master Crafter, assuming he/she knows the motif, can click on "Apply".

Again...this has nothing to do with min/max stats. It's just cosmetic.

STEVIL wrote: »

Toolzy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yep so let's go back to it.

I'm thinking a larger adjustment but to enable restyling using the crafting stations, style item, known motif and artwork that today we see as the material tiers(remove the tiers and keep the artwork)

Thoughts?

I did have a thought a few days ago until @STEVIL kept hijacking the thread with the same thing he's been posting on here.

Here was my idea ... and I was actually trying to put value to what @STEVIL said in here,

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces."

My idea was to exclusively allow Master bs/cloth/woodworkers to reforge/retailor/recarve items with motifs that are only known to them. STEVIL's been arguing that the only thing unique to crafters is controls of how it looks. So wouldn't this idea give crafters more value?

Let's say you are the only one that has the Akaviri motif (it'll take at least 2M gold to buy all the motifs via Alliance Credits) and I wanted that motif. You can very well charge me a crazy amount plus mats to "restyle" my gear. Here are the conditions for restyling said gear:

1. The Master Crafter must have knowledge of the motif.
2. Restyling gear can only be applied to crafted gear or dropped gear that follows user accessible motif

Some people asked me in my thread how can you restyle it if it's bound. Easy...the trade UI. Instead of actually trading, I can place my set piece on the UI with the mats required to restyle it. The Master Crafter, assuming he/she knows the motif, can click on "Apply".

Again...this has nothing to do with min/max stats. It's just cosmetic.

STEVIL has been arguing for the value of and use of crafted sets - not crafters.

Crafters would do just fine without a single crafted set in the game *IF* the game were setup so that the only way to get "quality" on drop sets was thru crafters. imagine if drop-sets were all that there was but they all dropped in White (normal/ overland), green (vet0 and Blue (hard mode.) The only way to get to purple and gold goes thru crafters doing upgrades.

in that model Crafters would be making gold right left and sideways.

ESO did not start with the model that "crafters will always make gold" though.

it started with and frankly has kept with fairly stringly the model that crafted gear is either better or as good as the dropped stuff. The idea that crafted gear is relevant to the gameplay is intrinsic in the game and that has been the case for more than just cosmetics.

With 1T that balance shifted down quite a bit but only for crafted equip.

I would like to see it shifted back - not by taking away from drop sets, not by removing their vital role in gameplay, but by giving both unique aspects to bring to bear on the end game selection.

Your proposal helps "crafters" with their get gold side of things but it does worsen the drive to use crafted gear.

IMO if the final role of crafted equip skills is "to help drop sets be better" than the skill costs and motif costs and research times should be drastically reduced because for much much less time and the same skills you can develop consumable lines that ARE BiS and do produce "better or as good" product at all levels.

I dont see what is elitist about wanting investments in skills to be on par in terms of results.

To be very clear again...

motif change for crafted sets - yes absolutely. should be simple.
trait change for crafted sets - also fine with me.

I think customization to suit your preferences is a hallmark of crafted sets and should remain so unless some other new hallmark or unique is added to replace it.

Doesn't seem that hard. if i invest 20+skills and tons of time to be able to make stuff over and above what i spent on combat etc - i would expect that stuff to be wroth that compared to what i could be hunter-gathering with my combat skills.