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Devs, I'm kind of a big deal, so listen to my critiques.

Thesnarkyshaman
I'd like to start this post off by saying that I think you've done an excellent job with the game. It's definitely worthy of the Elder Scrolls name, makes much more of an effort with plot and character than Skyrim and has tons of potential. However (and in large part because of all that potential) there are several criticisms I'm bringing up here in the egotistical assumption that the developers read this post and care what a random person on the internet has to say. So here goes.

The dialogue options, for the most part, are not so much dialogue options as they are auto-dialogue minus any cinematic value. The majority of the time you have one option and 'goodbye'. As 'goodbye' does not advance the quests, these aren't options. Nor are a list of questions for the NPC, unless you love people who speak at you instead of to you, for some reason. There were also times where I was told how I felt, such as feeling 'betrayed' during the main quest or having to play dumb to an obvious villain in the fighters guild quest line. Adding in flavour dialogue options in future for the player would really help enhance the role play aspect of the game significantly and create a personal bond between players and their characters and the NPC's.

For example, say you are given a morally questionable task to kill someone by your faction leader. Your options could be:
1. Yes, my liege. For the Dominion!
2. I don't like this, but I understand why it has to be done.
3. As long as I'm getting paid, consider it done.

They all lead to the same result, but help form character and motive in the PC for relatively little cost and development effort. Having branching dialogues where recurring npc's remember and react to your dialogue choices is even better, but obviously is more expensive due to voice acting and the development of whatever system tracks these things (though this would add a lot of depth to major recurring characters throughout the main and alliance plots). So PC roleplay dialogues is a significant start. TES games have never been strong in this regard, but as an evolving product TES Online has the potential to overcome the flaws of the main series and even surpass them and for me personally, this would be the most significant improvement for the game to make going forward for relatively little effort.

My second issue is with the level of high stakes side quests and alliance quests. I lost track early on of how many towns I saved from siege and how many doomsday artefacts I stopped from falling into necromancer/cultist/extremist hands. There is a big issue with tone and story pacing here, where quiet moments are few and far between and 'epic' moments come constantly and become indistinguishable and exhausting. It's a bit like catching the season finale of a show you don't watch, where you realise it's supposed to be dramatic and epic but can't appreciate what's going on because the plots and themes are unfamiliar and new. Furthermore, these plots are introduced and then over with so frequently that potentially fascinating lore and concepts are given no room to be developed to their full potential.

The side quests I do remember doing are things like helping the Nord cultural exchange or partaking in the festivities and drinking games of a village. The game needs more slice of life quests, more espionage and diplomacy, to give balance to the dramatic plots so when they happen they actually feel dramatic.

With all that said, I'll just reiterate that I think you've made a great game and I'm really excited for whatever content comes next. Especially if it has expanded player dialogues.
  • SaRuZ
    SaRuZ
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    To me, all the dialoge options make me feel stupid and dimwitted. For example, I killed Molag Bal and saved Tamriel! Dialogue options are then;

    "Did I win?"
    "How did I win?"
    "Does this mean I am a winner?"
    "Goodbye?"

    The best part is your character never fully grasps what's going on. You spend 20 minutes completing a quest and you're given the dumbest things to say.
  • Thesnarkyshaman
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    To me, all the dialoge options make me feel stupid and dimwitted. For example, I killed Molag Bal and saved Tamriel! Dialogue options are then;

    "Did I win?"
    "How did I win?"
    "Does this mean I am a winner?"
    "Goodbye?"

    The best part is your character never fully grasps what's going on. You spend 20 minutes completing a quest and you're given the dumbest things to say.

    Exactly. I either get no options or am given the impression that my character is incredibly slow. In particular, I remember having to ask (again, no options) twice why that dude from the Ebonheart Pact quests tried to



    ****DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPOILER TAGS SO SPOILERS***



    unleash Sadal on the enemy after his son is killed.

    Like, I have more emotional intelligence than a three year old. I get it. Give me the option to SAY that I get it and I'll feel much more attached to the plot and characters.
  • Sausage
    Sausage
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    Yep, improve the damn Journey what Ive said all along.

    Ive a new idea for it actually, Companions with story and what can be called later to help with Dolmens, Public Dungeons and Bosses, 1 companion per zone. I personally think Companions dialogy should be more psychological, that would give nice twist.

    Its actually great way to lure people to buy the DLC, as they are struggling with group-content, so theres the answer and especially it comes with story too, so instant buy/sub.

    My previous idea to improve the Journey was Holidays, basically public events, where everybody regardless of their level can come, theres Bards, dueling ring, some other activities too.
    Edited by Sausage on January 24, 2017 7:40AM
  • Thesnarkyshaman
    Sausage wrote: »
    Yep, improve the damn Journey what Ive said all along.

    Ive a new idea for it actually, Companions with story and what can be called later to help with Dolmens, Public Dungeons and Bosses, 1 companion per zone. I personally think Companions dialogy should be more psychological, that would give nice twist.

    I would love companions that either help in a fight and provide buffs if you're alone or just provide buffs if you're grouped and also have a kind of rudimentary bioware style dialogue system but I already had a lot to say so I didn't bother. I think it'd be a cool new way to provide progression (where you can put points into your companion in a more simple way than your toon ie. 'Healer/Tank/DPS' points to complement your needs) plus add to the story in an emotionally meaningful way. But that's a big suggestion. Better/more expansive player dialogues is easily achievable in any content at the writing stages.
  • Sausage
    Sausage
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    Sausage wrote: »
    Yep, improve the damn Journey what Ive said all along.

    Ive a new idea for it actually, Companions with story and what can be called later to help with Dolmens, Public Dungeons and Bosses, 1 companion per zone. I personally think Companions dialogy should be more psychological, that would give nice twist.

    I would love companions that either help in a fight and provide buffs if you're alone or just provide buffs if you're grouped and also have a kind of rudimentary bioware style dialogue system but I already had a lot to say so I didn't bother. I think it'd be a cool new way to provide progression (where you can put points into your companion in a more simple way than your toon ie. 'Healer/Tank/DPS' points to complement your needs) plus add to the story in an emotionally meaningful way. But that's a big suggestion. Better/more expansive player dialogues is easily achievable in any content at the writing stages.

    Really, ESO's story is what 100+ hour long? You can write us exciting story for all that 100 hour? I would like to see that. I would leave it as its and improve the Journey other ways.
    Edited by Sausage on January 24, 2017 7:47AM
  • Thesnarkyshaman
    Sausage wrote: »
    Sausage wrote: »
    Yep, improve the damn Journey what Ive said all along.

    Ive a new idea for it actually, Companions with story and what can be called later to help with Dolmens, Public Dungeons and Bosses, 1 companion per zone. I personally think Companions dialogy should be more psychological, that would give nice twist.

    I would love companions that either help in a fight and provide buffs if you're alone or just provide buffs if you're grouped and also have a kind of rudimentary bioware style dialogue system but I already had a lot to say so I didn't bother. I think it'd be a cool new way to provide progression (where you can put points into your companion in a more simple way than your toon ie. 'Healer/Tank/DPS' points to complement your needs) plus add to the story in an emotionally meaningful way. But that's a big suggestion. Better/more expansive player dialogues is easily achievable in any content at the writing stages.

    Really, ESO's story is what 100+ hour long? You can write us exciting story for all that 100 hour? I would like to see that. I would leave it as its and improve the Journey other ways.

    Pardon? I was agreeing with you. And yes, I could totally go through the player dialogues and add more options to them throughout the game, were I on the writing staff and getting paid for it.
    Edited by Thesnarkyshaman on January 24, 2017 7:50AM
  • Sausage
    Sausage
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    Sausage wrote: »
    Sausage wrote: »
    Yep, improve the damn Journey what Ive said all along.

    Ive a new idea for it actually, Companions with story and what can be called later to help with Dolmens, Public Dungeons and Bosses, 1 companion per zone. I personally think Companions dialogy should be more psychological, that would give nice twist.

    I would love companions that either help in a fight and provide buffs if you're alone or just provide buffs if you're grouped and also have a kind of rudimentary bioware style dialogue system but I already had a lot to say so I didn't bother. I think it'd be a cool new way to provide progression (where you can put points into your companion in a more simple way than your toon ie. 'Healer/Tank/DPS' points to complement your needs) plus add to the story in an emotionally meaningful way. But that's a big suggestion. Better/more expansive player dialogues is easily achievable in any content at the writing stages.

    Really, ESO's story is what 100+ hour long? You can write us exciting story for all that 100 hour? I would like to see that. I would leave it as its and improve the Journey other ways.

    Pardon? I was agreeing with you. And yes, I could totally go through the player dialogues and add more options to them throughout the game, were I on the writing staff and getting paid for it.

    I think what you want isnt realistic. Thats all. If the story was like 30 hour it would be so much easier, but ESO's story isnt exactly short, its damn long.

    Edited by Sausage on January 24, 2017 7:53AM
  • SaRuZ
    SaRuZ
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    What really killed it for me was I believe Oblivion. If I remember correctly, it may have been Skyrim. The dungeons and caves became ridiculously long and tedious and the same thing copy and pasted. What bothers me the most is you spend an hour going deep into the 'earth' and suddenly after you have achieved what you went there for, there is a secret door that leads outside! Dundundun! Why didn't I just find this door and open it and saved myself an hour? ESO repeats this fluently. I am pretty sure Morrowind was the only one that kept it short and sweet. No secret exit out of red mountain ;)
  • Sausage
    Sausage
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    If they are gonna write again the story, I want drama, comedy, violence, psychology, love, hate, etc.
    Edited by Sausage on January 24, 2017 7:57AM
  • FloppyTouch
    FloppyTouch
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    You mean you don't skip past everything as fast as possible just to be done with the damn quest and move on?

    A few months ago I got the 1,000 quest achievement and I could not tell you anything going on in the game or who is who bc I was just after skill points and the achievement and some colors I wanted to unlock. Didn't know people really cared about this stuff at all bc every one I play with and know does the same.

    To conclude I would not want anymore options added for the fact that I don't want to have to scroll through more crap I just don't care about and has absolutely no affect on my character. It's just more scrolling for me and it's boring.
  • petraeus1
    petraeus1
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    Excellent write up - I agree it's unlikely ZOS will go back and revisit vanilla extensively, they will hopefully take heed of these lessons going forward.

    About the amount of 'epic' quests: they would be less jarring if they actually felt epic, but it is clear that ZOS at the time either did not have the tools or the people to actually convey the words NPCs speak to the environment. A city under siege is actually just 10 enemy NPCs fighting 10 allied NPCs statically with some fires around. That part of AngryJoe's review still holds true. Compare that to Orsinium and the siege of Frostbreak Fortress...
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    These are good suggestions . I guess you are kind of a big deal . I was expecting something goofy ... Happily surprised .
  • Knootewoot
    Knootewoot
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    Elderscrolls games have been thumbed down after Morrowind. Whereas in Morrowind you had tons of dialogue options with hyperlinks opening even more options, in Oblivion and after you only had 3 options:

    - rumors
    - WTF
    - goodbye

    Of course Morrowind had no speech for the dialogues.
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • leothedino
    leothedino
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    I actually really empathise with OP. I'm quite passionate about the TES universe, and I have a lot of love for ESO as a game... but let me draw the line and say right now, it's not for the questing.

    The quests in this game have been so poorly written/executed that my first playthrough and my usual "everything gets read/listened to" mentality didn't see it to Cadwells' Gold. In places, and on roughly 50% of the quests, I skipped things out of utter boredom.

    My own critique would be that quest givers are transparent in character and over saturated with script, and in absolute agreement with the above, your own character comes across purely 'simple' in intellect with the responses you're forced to reply with. With so many of the quests it felt like 'quantity over quality' was their goal.

    An ideal argument, and fair one in most cases, would be to remember this is an MMO and not a single player experience, but then SWTOR changed all that and frankly put, questing in this game pales terribly in comparison to Biowares touch.
    Edited by leothedino on January 24, 2017 8:38AM
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