Do you want restyling in the game?

Integral1900 · January 2017

Yes

It would be nice, it would give me a reason to use dropped sets because right now, other than two items from two of the sets they all look terrible, especially on female characters, if I could make them look any way I like it would finally give me a reason to farm them. Right now I don't care how strong a set is, if it looks visually garbage I'm not using it. And yes I have heard of costumes but again, other than for a bit of role play now and then, I just don't really like any of them.

Now... if they did a costume to make characters look like female barbarians from diablo three, well... that would be a different story

Easily_Lost · January 2017

Yes

The only thing to change would be Motif style. No way to change Traits, Armour Rating, Weapon Damage, or Enchantments. Of course you would have to have learned the style.

I don't understand how that would hurt Dropped Sets.

kevlarto_ESO · January 2017

Yes

Sure why they already have in place the ability to do this, changing things to imperial, more options are always good, +1 support, make it so

Katahdin · January 2017

Yes

Yes for all items (dropped and crafted) except the helm in monster sets as long as you know the motif for the style you want to convert to.

STEVIL · January 2017

No

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces.

traits - you can get thru farming.

weight - some drop sets come in variable weights so that is not unique for all - more mixed than i thought actually.

Giving motif control to drop sets removes one of the few remaining "why crafted sets exist" benefits.

There's no reason to dump player style just because crafted sets are so niche. The real solution is to both have a restyling/wardrobe/etc. system AND make crafted sets competitive.

Personally, I think restyling doesn't go far enough. We should have complete control over aesthetics, mixing and matching armor looks/costume components/etc. regardless of the weight of our actual underlying armor. We can already do it with costumes, I see no reason not to do it here.

AFTER crafted sets get useful unique capabilities to bring them more in line with their investment in skill points and time, then sure we can talk about beefing up drop sets cosmetics.

Not before.

Disagree, aesthetic needs trump an accessory system's need to remain viable. It helps more people to have freedom of customization than for crafters to feel useful, and I say this as a current complete master crafter (minus the new 3 million gold provisioning recipe, still working on that). Really though I can't image they'd do any kind of wardrobe or restyling system without requiring motif knowledge, so crafters would still have the run of it.

to be clear aesthetic needs trump a single armor skill line's need to remain viable would not fly as reasonable game design logic and nor would aesthetic needs trump a single weapon skill line's need to remain viable nor would aesthetic needs trump a single class skill line's need to remain viable

IMO it shouldn't for equipment crafting skill lines either - given the other crafts are hands down no-brainer must haves - not just prettier.

if more people prioritized aesthetics over substance then there would be mostly crafted sets and drop-jewel sets in play than drop sets in play and not nearly as much hue and cry for a new drop-set-support system to be added.

There is nothing stopping anyone who cares more for aesthetics right now from completely having every visually identifiable piece of gear in whatever motif they want - just use all crafted arms and armor. The jewels dont show and there are fairly readily available jewels a plenty.

But in fact, what you have is more people prioritizing substance over style, choosing the "drop sets" modes - sometimes complete drop sets with no crafted - and then asking for that aesthetic sacrifice of their substance-based choice to get fixed and if that means crafted sets go even further down the road to the dodo - who cares, right?

Well, some crafters do and some gamers do who feel that the game works better when major systems requiring huge skill dumps of 20+ and more time than any other development dont suddenyl become not anywhere balanced in terms of value for investment.

if the <20 skills point sunk into the heavy armor skill line netted you basically mostly cosmetics and convenience instead of worthwhile benefits on par with light and heavy or at least close - then folks wouldn't defend taking raising light and medium defenses based on the logic of "but the aesthetics look better for those sets so lets beef them up so folks dont have to wear heavy for defense."

theher0not · January 2017

Yes

hagermanj wrote: »

The only thing to change would be Motif style. No way to change Traits, Armour Rating, Weapon Damage, or Enchantments. Of course you would have to have learned the style.

I don't understand how that would hurt Dropped Sets.

This is exactly what I want a xmog system to be. As a benefit for us players we can change our gear to look how we want it. As a benefit for ZoS more people will buy good looking motifs from the crown store. It is a win-win situation

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces.

traits - you can get thru farming.

weight - some drop sets come in variable weights so that is not unique for all - more mixed than i thought actually.

Giving motif control to drop sets removes one of the few remaining "why crafted sets exist" benefits.

There's no reason to dump player style just because crafted sets are so niche. The real solution is to both have a restyling/wardrobe/etc. system AND make crafted sets competitive.

Personally, I think restyling doesn't go far enough. We should have complete control over aesthetics, mixing and matching armor looks/costume components/etc. regardless of the weight of our actual underlying armor. We can already do it with costumes, I see no reason not to do it here.

AFTER crafted sets get useful unique capabilities to bring them more in line with their investment in skill points and time, then sure we can talk about beefing up drop sets cosmetics.

Not before.

@STEVIL

Wait so ....

I want to ask this to make sure I follow. I posted a different idea tho so here's my question.

If the current material tiers were changed to a style type and the motifs remained as they are...

Would you be adverse to requiring the change of a dropped items appearance to require the crafting station, the motif, cloth, wood or meta material (style material) and what ever other logical requirements such as a traitor what not to change gear as acceptable change?

Again I know my idea differs but I'm trying to follow what you disagree with. I understand you feel sets need buffing but I feel it's crafting needs a purpose rather than crafted sets being what you disagree with.

It's the research and stuff that you want to apply to changing if added (assuming crafted sets aren't buffed)?

Asking?

Tannus15 · January 2017

Yes

Yes, in a heart beat.

People use crafted sets for their stats first and foremost. If all crafted sets were inferior then no one would use them, regardless of the style choices.

Motif hunting was one of my favourite things to do in this game which has felt less and less rewarding since 1T.
Crafting, which was a major drive for me in this game, has become almost pointless since the only "interesting" crafted set is morkuldin. Some few others are "good" but boring and I have more fun dreaming up drop set builds.

I think the only crafted gear I'm using over 8 characters is 1 set of hunding and 1 set of night silence.

ninjaguyman · January 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces.

traits - you can get thru farming.

weight - some drop sets come in variable weights so that is not unique for all - more mixed than i thought actually.

Giving motif control to drop sets removes one of the few remaining "why crafted sets exist" benefits.

crafted sets should be unique because they have(or should have atleast) good set bonuses, not just because you can decide how they look on creation. just saying it like that sounds kinda dumb. as if choosing a crafted set for cosmetic looks somehow is a valid trade off for not using dropped sets which are for the most part are better than crafted sets.

kargen27 · January 2017

I think it should take two pieces of armor or two weapons, which ever you are changing. So if you wanted to change a level 160 sword you would need another 160 sword with the style you want. Then at a crafting station you could merge the two swords into one. You end up with the traits of one and the style of the other.

Was thinking require they be the same quality (two blues for instance) but that might be a bit much especially when you get lucky and get a yellow drop.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

Yes

Don't force your fashion on me . I want to look fabulous in anything .

Morbash · January 2017

Yes

Of course. Looking forward to this change.

Tapio75 · January 2017

Yes

Restylig/transmog/whatever would be great but even greater, would be proper cosmetic outfit system like in the Lord of the rings Online has.n A system where appearance is not tied to a costume nor in the equipped item

A system wwhere you haveslots for sets of cosmetic outfit which could be made from anyitem you found in the game with no level up or downwards restrictions or oter pointless restrictions like armor type etc.

You could place items to these slots like you do wwith armor right now and that set would be always on and could be changed on the fly with one of other sets you have. You can cjhange piece of armor but the appearance is always the one set in the active cosmetic outfit slot.

Abeille · January 2017

Yes

The fact that this doesn't exist in the game yet along with crafting sets generally being so sub-par really made me stop enjoying collecting motifs in the game.

This is a big thing for me, since crafting used to be my main objective. On the first year of the game, everything I did was with crafting in mind. All the gold I gathered was spent on new motifs and items for research. If I felt like grinding, I would go somewhere I knew I could find motifs I still needed. It used to be such a big part of my gameplay, and now... I just don't feel like doing it anymore. What for? I can't use my motifs anyway.

K4RMA · January 2017

No

tehe

STEVIL · January 2017

No

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces.

traits - you can get thru farming.

weight - some drop sets come in variable weights so that is not unique for all - more mixed than i thought actually.

Giving motif control to drop sets removes one of the few remaining "why crafted sets exist" benefits.

There's no reason to dump player style just because crafted sets are so niche. The real solution is to both have a restyling/wardrobe/etc. system AND make crafted sets competitive.

Personally, I think restyling doesn't go far enough. We should have complete control over aesthetics, mixing and matching armor looks/costume components/etc. regardless of the weight of our actual underlying armor. We can already do it with costumes, I see no reason not to do it here.

AFTER crafted sets get useful unique capabilities to bring them more in line with their investment in skill points and time, then sure we can talk about beefing up drop sets cosmetics.

Not before.

@STEVIL

Wait so ....

I want to ask this to make sure I follow. I posted a different idea tho so here's my question.

If the current material tiers were changed to a style type and the motifs remained as they are...

Would you be adverse to requiring the change of a dropped items appearance to require the crafting station, the motif, cloth, wood or meta material (style material) and what ever other logical requirements such as a traitor what not to change gear as acceptable change?

Again I know my idea differs but I'm trying to follow what you disagree with. I understand you feel sets need buffing but I feel it's crafting needs a purpose rather than crafted sets being what you disagree with.

It's the research and stuff that you want to apply to changing if added (assuming crafted sets aren't buffed)?

Asking?

@NewBlacksmurf

The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) drops sets get improved is irrelevant to me.
The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) crafted sets lose their only remaining unique capability that cannot be currently done in drop sets is irrelevant.

Without crafted set getting new and improved unique capabilities beyond the cosmetics they have now, giving that last cosmetic unique facet away and in the process improving drop sets is a no-way-jose for me. Its a boon, perma-long-term, to drop set hunter-gatherers with the (depending on how) token one-time transient function for the crafters but not for the crafted set wearers who now see their last unique aspect everywhere.

Chadak · January 2017

Yes

I'd heartily approve of this.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

No. At least, unless it is only available for crafted sets.

The only thing that crafted sets have that is unique to them is motif control for all crafted pieces.

traits - you can get thru farming.

weight - some drop sets come in variable weights so that is not unique for all - more mixed than i thought actually.

Giving motif control to drop sets removes one of the few remaining "why crafted sets exist" benefits.

There's no reason to dump player style just because crafted sets are so niche. The real solution is to both have a restyling/wardrobe/etc. system AND make crafted sets competitive.

Personally, I think restyling doesn't go far enough. We should have complete control over aesthetics, mixing and matching armor looks/costume components/etc. regardless of the weight of our actual underlying armor. We can already do it with costumes, I see no reason not to do it here.

AFTER crafted sets get useful unique capabilities to bring them more in line with their investment in skill points and time, then sure we can talk about beefing up drop sets cosmetics.

Not before.

@STEVIL

Wait so ....

I want to ask this to make sure I follow. I posted a different idea tho so here's my question.

If the current material tiers were changed to a style type and the motifs remained as they are...

Would you be adverse to requiring the change of a dropped items appearance to require the crafting station, the motif, cloth, wood or meta material (style material) and what ever other logical requirements such as a traitor what not to change gear as acceptable change?

Again I know my idea differs but I'm trying to follow what you disagree with. I understand you feel sets need buffing but I feel it's crafting needs a purpose rather than crafted sets being what you disagree with.

It's the research and stuff that you want to apply to changing if added (assuming crafted sets aren't buffed)?

Asking?

@NewBlacksmurf

The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) drops sets get improved is irrelevant to me.
The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) crafted sets lose their only remaining unique capability that cannot be currently done in drop sets is irrelevant.

Without crafted set getting new and improved unique capabilities beyond the cosmetics they have now, giving that last cosmetic unique facet away and in the process improving drop sets is a no-way-jose for me. Its a boon, perma-long-term, to drop set hunter-gatherers with the (depending on how) token one-time transient function for the crafters but not for the crafted set wearers who now see their last unique aspect everywhere.

@STEVIL

So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?

Asking cause I still craft a 5 piece to go with the drops so I'll have two 5 pieces.

Taleof2Cities · January 2017

Yes

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) drops sets get improved is irrelevant to me.
The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) crafted sets lose their only remaining unique capability that cannot be currently done in drop sets is irrelevant.

Without crafted set getting new and improved unique capabilities beyond the cosmetics they have now, giving that last cosmetic unique facet away and in the process improving drop sets is a no-way-jose for me. Its a boon, perma-long-term, to drop set hunter-gatherers with the (depending on how) token one-time transient function for the crafters but not for the crafted set wearers who now see their last unique aspect everywhere.

@STEVIL

So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?

Asking cause I still craft a 5 piece to go with the drops so I'll have two 5 pieces.

Same as you, @NewBlacksmurf, most of my characters have one (1) dropped set accompanying one (1) crafted set to juxtapose set bonuses with style.

But, some of the crafted sets are sorely in need of a boost to make them viable again ... which is part of what @STEVIL is getting at.

Does anyone use Alessia's Bulwark? No.

Any players theorycrafting Oblivion's Foe with the new Soul Assault? No.

Are there recent (yesterday) forum threads about Willow's Path still broken? Yes.

So, we can't easily dismiss @STEVIL's observations.

In fact, a poorly implemented transmog system would be the nail in the coffin for crafted gear and collecting motifs (as they are in Live currently). I still support it. But, it has to be done correctly ... starting with a check of the player's motif knowledge before transmog.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) drops sets get improved is irrelevant to me.
The mechanism of how (what clicks, where, how often etc) crafted sets lose their only remaining unique capability that cannot be currently done in drop sets is irrelevant.

Without crafted set getting new and improved unique capabilities beyond the cosmetics they have now, giving that last cosmetic unique facet away and in the process improving drop sets is a no-way-jose for me. Its a boon, perma-long-term, to drop set hunter-gatherers with the (depending on how) token one-time transient function for the crafters but not for the crafted set wearers who now see their last unique aspect everywhere.

@STEVIL

So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?

Asking cause I still craft a 5 piece to go with the drops so I'll have two 5 pieces.

Same as you, @NewBlacksmurf, most of my characters have one (1) dropped set accompanying one (1) crafted set to juxtapose set bonuses with style.

But, some of the crafted sets are sorely in need of a boost to make them viable again ... which is part of what @STEVIL is getting at.

Does anyone use Alessia's Bulwark? No.

Any players theorycrafting Oblivion's Foe with the new Soul Assault? No.

Are there recent (yesterday) forum threads about Willow's Path still being broken? Yes.

So, we can't easily dismiss @STEVIL's observations.

In fact, a poorly implemented transmog system would be the nail in the coffin for crafted gear and collecting motifs (as they are in Live currently). I still support it. But, it has to be done correctly ... starting with a check of the player's motif knowledge before transmog.

@Taleof2Cities

They don't need tone buffed. It's part of progression and part of mix and matching along with theory crafting.

Every set has its place but every set isn't going to line up with the meta builds or ideal min and max concepts.

Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.

If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders and guild store and then skip to Vet anything.

Cpt_Teemo · January 2017

Yes

I would like it as long as it costs double the trait gems to change it

Recremen · January 2017

Yes

@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway then holding restyling/wardrobe functionality back hurts way more people than it helps, since it helps zero people. All it would do is make crafting into a form of gross elitism, while still not fixing any problems with crafted sets. Preventing people from having fun won't save crafted sets, it'd just drag us all down into a swamp of increased misery. It's time to let go of crafted sets so that the system designers have the maximum possible incentive to improve them.

Tannus15 · January 2017

Yes

Abeille wrote: »

The fact that this doesn't exist in the game yet along with crafting sets generally being so sub-par really made me stop enjoying collecting motifs in the game.

This is a big thing for me, since crafting used to be my main objective. On the first year of the game, everything I did was with crafting in mind. All the gold I gathered was spent on new motifs and items for research. If I felt like grinding, I would go somewhere I knew I could find motifs I still needed. It used to be such a big part of my gameplay, and now... I just don't feel like doing it anymore. What for? I can't use my motifs anyway.

1000% times this.

Ajaxduo · January 2017

Yes

Allow us to change any items style into whatever we choose so long as we have the motif learned, make it require a style stone and some form of transmutation stone. It can be yet another gold sink, I would happily use it. Also why you are at it add weapon dying already for the love of Talos!

STEVIL · January 2017

No

Several replies

@Recremen said "@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway..."
Don't think i said they were useless. Big gulf between useless and not where they should be based on expense. So moving on...

@NewBlacksmurf said "Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.
If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders..."

and also this "So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?"

look, is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame potions are crafted? is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame food is crafted? Is anybody out of sorts over the fact that *ALL* the endgame enchantments/glyphs or poisons on weapons are crafted?

No?

Hmmm...

No hue and cry that "if we dont have to adventure for endgame potions why bother getting out of bed?"

No?

those 60 some points spent in alchemy and enchanting and provisioning serve vital key lynchpin roles all thru the system and into endgame and once in endgame they are key, they are the answer, they are the go to.

But the 60 some points spent on smithing, carving and stitching... plus the huge hits in motif collection and trait research time - folks seem fine with the notion that "hey, cant have those being endgame ready" logic.

When enchantments got so underwhelming that the folks at ZOS saw a number of folks not even bothering to enchant their weapons in play and saw enchanting less learned than the other crafts - they gave a massive uptick to enchantments.

But the key thing about my position is this: i am not asking for a massive uptick to these crafts. i am not asking for all these sets to be made maelstrom equivalent or such.

What i am asking for is for them to get back to where they were and a unique set of options that the drops cannot duplicate. i want them to not go to the front of the line racing ahead of drop sets but to be riding in the same car sitting right beside them.

So, yeah, this does mean some corrections need to be made - not just fix the bad sets cuz both drops and crafteds have those - but bringing stuff to balance and giving them unique...

Into balance:
10x cost for cp160 craft - before 1T and esp when the 10x came out there were almost no cp160/vet16 drops. Crafted gave you the almost unique ability to get there at massive cost in mats. now, every tom drop and harry set falls at 160 but crafted is still at 10x. this needs to be fixed.
Up-scale gear level - before 1T drops and crafted would get out-leveld by you as your level advanced. A given set would also be out-leveled because it tended to be in a given range or two of levels. Now, as you go up in levels so do the drops you find. if you want veiled heritance just keep playing in its zones and find pieces at higher levels as you advance. So to restore the parity that was there pre-1T, let crafters take existing crafted sets and "raise their level" in a form of partial recrafting which allows them to retain the quality.

Both of these are intended to just keep the sort of balance that was there before 1T gave drop sets a major boost in availability across levels. i mean even before 1T jewels were a big advantage for drop sets but then not every set had jewels, now they do. So that unique edge got even bigger.

UNIQUE for Both:
Right now in 1T with every drop set having jewels and every drop set scaling to 160 (exception for maelstrom/master/monster) that "jewels unique to drops" thing got a major boost.
Add in the other UNIQUE TO DROPS (1-2pc monster body sets, 2-3pc jewel/wpn sets, maelstrom, master) and its easy to seer that drop sets are absolutely going to have a place in the endgame gear layout no matter what.

because the drop sets have so many different ways to enter that picture that crafted cannot do at all - there is no way anybody is ever gonna be posting "top endgame builds" without drop sets - right? not even "good enough for endgame" will be posting with "no drop pieces"...

Thats fine of course - drop sets should be a part of the game at all levels and in the end game.

But you know, so should crafted sets esp after spending 20-60ish skills to be able to make them.

Right now the only unique thing crafted sets have is cosmetic - appearance - and folks are lining up to give that over to drop sets too with threads upon threads by the drop sets hunter-gatherer crowds.

What i suggest is you should also have a practical substantive capability unique to crafteds that will give them a place at the endgame table right alongside the drop sets whose place is GUARANTEED by their unique configurations.

So, for that i propose 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpn sets able to be crafted.
These dont exist now - so nothing is being taken away from drops.
These dont exist now so they create a lot of options for new build structures beyond the 5-5-2 or 4-4-2-1/1 or the 5-3-2-2 we have now.

These can be brought into existance with a simple change - allow at crafting a crafter to drop one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from a set creating a "short set" letting them drop away some of the "off" bonuses of the weaker sets. That functionally doubles the number of "crafted sets" available in one instant which helsp to address the massive number of new drops from 1T.

Now, sure, not every endgame build will choose to use 3pc bw or 4pc bw but the options would be there and they would be unique to crafted - which ought to be enough to keep them more than just three or four sets that some builds can use.

It also has a balancing benefit within the crafteds -

the top end crafted sets are that way now because all their bonuses work together - so dropping off one useful bonus is kind of a win-lose thing.

but many of the weaker crafted sets are that way in part because their traits dont all sync together and dropping off the odd-man-out will be a boon to them.

but thats why i keep coming back to unique.

not interested in trying to replace drops sets with numerically superior crafteds making drops obsolete.

interested in setting it up so each class of gear brings its own unique elements and where both are vital parts of the game at every level - endgame included.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

Several replies

@Recremen said "@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway..."
Don't think i said they were useless. Big gulf between useless and not where they should be based on expense. So moving on...

@NewBlacksmurf said "Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.
If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders..."

and also this "So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?"

look, is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame potions are crafted? is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame food is crafted? Is anybody out of sorts over the fact that *ALL* the endgame enchantments/glyphs or poisons on weapons are crafted?

No?

Hmmm...

No hue and cry that "if we dont have to adventure for endgame potions why bother getting out of bed?"

No?

those 60 some points spent in alchemy and enchanting and provisioning serve vital key lynchpin roles all thru the system and into endgame and once in endgame they are key, they are the answer, they are the go to.

But the 60 some points spent on smithing, carving and stitching... plus the huge hits in motif collection and trait research time - folks seem fine with the notion that "hey, cant have those being endgame ready" logic.

When enchantments got so underwhelming that the folks at ZOS saw a number of folks not even bothering to enchant their weapons in play and saw enchanting less learned than the other crafts - they gave a massive uptick to enchantments.

But the key thing about my position is this: i am not asking for a massive uptick to these crafts. i am not asking for all these sets to be made maelstrom equivalent or such.

What i am asking for is for them to get back to where they were and a unique set of options that the drops cannot duplicate. i want them to not go to the front of the line racing ahead of drop sets but to be riding in the same car sitting right beside them.

So, yeah, this does mean some corrections need to be made - not just fix the bad sets cuz both drops and crafteds have those - but bringing stuff to balance and giving them unique...

Into balance:
10x cost for cp160 craft - before 1T and esp when the 10x came out there were almost no cp160/vet16 drops. Crafted gave you the almost unique ability to get there at massive cost in mats. now, every tom drop and harry set falls at 160 but crafted is still at 10x. this needs to be fixed.
Up-scale gear level - before 1T drops and crafted would get out-leveld by you as your level advanced. A given set would also be out-leveled because it tended to be in a given range or two of levels. Now, as you go up in levels so do the drops you find. if you want veiled heritance just keep playing in its zones and find pieces at higher levels as you advance. So to restore the parity that was there pre-1T, let crafters take existing crafted sets and "raise their level" in a form of partial recrafting which allows them to retain the quality.

Both of these are intended to just keep the sort of balance that was there before 1T gave drop sets a major boost in availability across levels. i mean even before 1T jewels were a big advantage for drop sets but then not every set had jewels, now they do. So that unique edge got even bigger.

UNIQUE for Both:
Right now in 1T with every drop set having jewels and every drop set scaling to 160 (exception for maelstrom/master/monster) that "jewels unique to drops" thing got a major boost.
Add in the other UNIQUE TO DROPS (1-2pc monster body sets, 2-3pc jewel/wpn sets, maelstrom, master) and its easy to seer that drop sets are absolutely going to have a place in the endgame gear layout no matter what.

because the drop sets have so many different ways to enter that picture that crafted cannot do at all - there is no way anybody is ever gonna be posting "top endgame builds" without drop sets - right? not even "good enough for endgame" will be posting with "no drop pieces"...

Thats fine of course - drop sets should be a part of the game at all levels and in the end game.

But you know, so should crafted sets esp after spending 20-60ish skills to be able to make them.

Right now the only unique thing crafted sets have is cosmetic - appearance - and folks are lining up to give that over to drop sets too with threads upon threads by the drop sets hunter-gatherer crowds.

What i suggest is you should also have a practical substantive capability unique to crafteds that will give them a place at the endgame table right alongside the drop sets whose place is GUARANTEED by their unique configurations.

So, for that i propose 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpn sets able to be crafted.
These dont exist now - so nothing is being taken away from drops.
These dont exist now so they create a lot of options for new build structures beyond the 5-5-2 or 4-4-2-1/1 or the 5-3-2-2 we have now.

These can be brought into existance with a simple change - allow at crafting a crafter to drop one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from a set creating a "short set" letting them drop away some of the "off" bonuses of the weaker sets. That functionally doubles the number of "crafted sets" available in one instant which helsp to address the massive number of new drops from 1T.

Now, sure, not every endgame build will choose to use 3pc bw or 4pc bw but the options would be there and they would be unique to crafted - which ought to be enough to keep them more than just three or four sets that some builds can use.

It also has a balancing benefit within the crafteds -

the top end crafted sets are that way now because all their bonuses work together - so dropping off one useful bonus is kind of a win-lose thing.

but many of the weaker crafted sets are that way in part because their traits dont all sync together and dropping off the odd-man-out will be a boon to them.

but thats why i keep coming back to unique.

not interested in trying to replace drops sets with numerically superior crafteds making drops obsolete.

interested in setting it up so each class of gear brings its own unique elements and where both are vital parts of the game at every level - endgame included.

@STEVIL

You're missing it.

Endgame....whatever you consider that to be. Food, potions, enchants are only accessible after obtaining the recipe or materials from running harder content or from buying things from people who sale the loot.

What you're saying about crafting sets doesn't align.

The 7-9 trait sets are definately endgame viable but their purpose is to get you to endgame and not replace best in slot as best in slot should only come from doing the content.

The only thing I'd be open to are crafting stations inside of content progression which already exists. Just wait for more dlc.

There isn't a problem with crafting sets to where they need boosting.

Just like ingredients needs for potions or food require doing "endgame" to access the recipe or unlock passives and or writs to find the missing pieces.

Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.

Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear.

why would ppl do anything or buy anything. That's killing everything

STEVIL · January 2017

No

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Several replies

@Recremen said "@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway..."
Don't think i said they were useless. Big gulf between useless and not where they should be based on expense. So moving on...

@NewBlacksmurf said "Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.
If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders..."

and also this "So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?"

look, is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame potions are crafted? is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame food is crafted? Is anybody out of sorts over the fact that *ALL* the endgame enchantments/glyphs or poisons on weapons are crafted?

No?

Hmmm...

No hue and cry that "if we dont have to adventure for endgame potions why bother getting out of bed?"

No?

those 60 some points spent in alchemy and enchanting and provisioning serve vital key lynchpin roles all thru the system and into endgame and once in endgame they are key, they are the answer, they are the go to.

But the 60 some points spent on smithing, carving and stitching... plus the huge hits in motif collection and trait research time - folks seem fine with the notion that "hey, cant have those being endgame ready" logic.

When enchantments got so underwhelming that the folks at ZOS saw a number of folks not even bothering to enchant their weapons in play and saw enchanting less learned than the other crafts - they gave a massive uptick to enchantments.

But the key thing about my position is this: i am not asking for a massive uptick to these crafts. i am not asking for all these sets to be made maelstrom equivalent or such.

What i am asking for is for them to get back to where they were and a unique set of options that the drops cannot duplicate. i want them to not go to the front of the line racing ahead of drop sets but to be riding in the same car sitting right beside them.

So, yeah, this does mean some corrections need to be made - not just fix the bad sets cuz both drops and crafteds have those - but bringing stuff to balance and giving them unique...

Into balance:
10x cost for cp160 craft - before 1T and esp when the 10x came out there were almost no cp160/vet16 drops. Crafted gave you the almost unique ability to get there at massive cost in mats. now, every tom drop and harry set falls at 160 but crafted is still at 10x. this needs to be fixed.
Up-scale gear level - before 1T drops and crafted would get out-leveld by you as your level advanced. A given set would also be out-leveled because it tended to be in a given range or two of levels. Now, as you go up in levels so do the drops you find. if you want veiled heritance just keep playing in its zones and find pieces at higher levels as you advance. So to restore the parity that was there pre-1T, let crafters take existing crafted sets and "raise their level" in a form of partial recrafting which allows them to retain the quality.

Both of these are intended to just keep the sort of balance that was there before 1T gave drop sets a major boost in availability across levels. i mean even before 1T jewels were a big advantage for drop sets but then not every set had jewels, now they do. So that unique edge got even bigger.

UNIQUE for Both:
Right now in 1T with every drop set having jewels and every drop set scaling to 160 (exception for maelstrom/master/monster) that "jewels unique to drops" thing got a major boost.
Add in the other UNIQUE TO DROPS (1-2pc monster body sets, 2-3pc jewel/wpn sets, maelstrom, master) and its easy to seer that drop sets are absolutely going to have a place in the endgame gear layout no matter what.

because the drop sets have so many different ways to enter that picture that crafted cannot do at all - there is no way anybody is ever gonna be posting "top endgame builds" without drop sets - right? not even "good enough for endgame" will be posting with "no drop pieces"...

Thats fine of course - drop sets should be a part of the game at all levels and in the end game.

But you know, so should crafted sets esp after spending 20-60ish skills to be able to make them.

Right now the only unique thing crafted sets have is cosmetic - appearance - and folks are lining up to give that over to drop sets too with threads upon threads by the drop sets hunter-gatherer crowds.

What i suggest is you should also have a practical substantive capability unique to crafteds that will give them a place at the endgame table right alongside the drop sets whose place is GUARANTEED by their unique configurations.

So, for that i propose 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpn sets able to be crafted.
These dont exist now - so nothing is being taken away from drops.
These dont exist now so they create a lot of options for new build structures beyond the 5-5-2 or 4-4-2-1/1 or the 5-3-2-2 we have now.

These can be brought into existance with a simple change - allow at crafting a crafter to drop one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from a set creating a "short set" letting them drop away some of the "off" bonuses of the weaker sets. That functionally doubles the number of "crafted sets" available in one instant which helsp to address the massive number of new drops from 1T.

Now, sure, not every endgame build will choose to use 3pc bw or 4pc bw but the options would be there and they would be unique to crafted - which ought to be enough to keep them more than just three or four sets that some builds can use.

It also has a balancing benefit within the crafteds -

the top end crafted sets are that way now because all their bonuses work together - so dropping off one useful bonus is kind of a win-lose thing.

but many of the weaker crafted sets are that way in part because their traits dont all sync together and dropping off the odd-man-out will be a boon to them.

but thats why i keep coming back to unique.

not interested in trying to replace drops sets with numerically superior crafteds making drops obsolete.

interested in setting it up so each class of gear brings its own unique elements and where both are vital parts of the game at every level - endgame included.

@STEVIL

You're missing it.

Endgame....whatever you consider that to be. Food, potions, enchants are only accessible after obtaining the recipe or materials from running harder content or from buying things from people who sale the loot.

What you're saying about crafting sets doesn't align.

The 7-9 trait sets are definately endgame viable but their purpose is to get you to endgame and not replace best in slot as best in slot should only come from doing the content.

The only thing I'd be open to are crafting stations inside of content progression which already exists. Just wait for more dlc.

There isn't a problem with crafting sets to where they need boosting.

Just like ingredients needs for potions or food require doing "endgame" to access the recipe or unlock passives and or writs to find the missing pieces.

Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.

Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear.

why would ppl do anything or buy anything. That's killing everything

@NewBlacksmurf

Potions, glyphs foods - those recipes/ingredients/etc can be acquired in casual play - once you hit the level and have spent the skills you can get endgame level crafteds that make drops obsolete for those three crafts. Just like crafted equip - there are mats involved but these only require casual play not any sort of tough content to get to.

yet, nobody seems to have an issue with crafted potions, glyphs, poisons, foods being go-to for endgame over their drop equivalents.

As for this:
"Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.
Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear."

I can only guess you did not read my post.

Since my proposal did not include adding crafted jewels - drop jewels would still be BIS - not crafted - including the unique jewl/wpn 3pc.
Since my proposal did not propose raising any of the top end crafted sets above where they are now or to VMSA or monster levels, those drops would remain BiS for those builds.
Since my proposal would explicitly leave it impossible to outfit a full character set of gear using only crafted, there would always be a need to go out and do content to gather drops.

Its Ok we dont have to agree.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Several replies

@Recremen said "@STEVIL bro if crafted sets are useless anyway..."
Don't think i said they were useless. Big gulf between useless and not where they should be based on expense. So moving on...

@NewBlacksmurf said "Also it takes a very long time to research all this things so it's really all fine. You shouldn't be able to craft sets and be endgame ready. You need to actually play and find loot.
If they buffed crafted sets...what's the point of playing if u can just research from world drops or now buying from traders..."

and also this "So what's wrong with the crafted sets now that you feel they need some boosting?"

look, is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame potions are crafted? is anybody losing sleep over the fact that *ALL* the endgame food is crafted? Is anybody out of sorts over the fact that *ALL* the endgame enchantments/glyphs or poisons on weapons are crafted?

No?

Hmmm...

No hue and cry that "if we dont have to adventure for endgame potions why bother getting out of bed?"

No?

those 60 some points spent in alchemy and enchanting and provisioning serve vital key lynchpin roles all thru the system and into endgame and once in endgame they are key, they are the answer, they are the go to.

But the 60 some points spent on smithing, carving and stitching... plus the huge hits in motif collection and trait research time - folks seem fine with the notion that "hey, cant have those being endgame ready" logic.

When enchantments got so underwhelming that the folks at ZOS saw a number of folks not even bothering to enchant their weapons in play and saw enchanting less learned than the other crafts - they gave a massive uptick to enchantments.

But the key thing about my position is this: i am not asking for a massive uptick to these crafts. i am not asking for all these sets to be made maelstrom equivalent or such.

What i am asking for is for them to get back to where they were and a unique set of options that the drops cannot duplicate. i want them to not go to the front of the line racing ahead of drop sets but to be riding in the same car sitting right beside them.

So, yeah, this does mean some corrections need to be made - not just fix the bad sets cuz both drops and crafteds have those - but bringing stuff to balance and giving them unique...

Into balance:
10x cost for cp160 craft - before 1T and esp when the 10x came out there were almost no cp160/vet16 drops. Crafted gave you the almost unique ability to get there at massive cost in mats. now, every tom drop and harry set falls at 160 but crafted is still at 10x. this needs to be fixed.
Up-scale gear level - before 1T drops and crafted would get out-leveld by you as your level advanced. A given set would also be out-leveled because it tended to be in a given range or two of levels. Now, as you go up in levels so do the drops you find. if you want veiled heritance just keep playing in its zones and find pieces at higher levels as you advance. So to restore the parity that was there pre-1T, let crafters take existing crafted sets and "raise their level" in a form of partial recrafting which allows them to retain the quality.

Both of these are intended to just keep the sort of balance that was there before 1T gave drop sets a major boost in availability across levels. i mean even before 1T jewels were a big advantage for drop sets but then not every set had jewels, now they do. So that unique edge got even bigger.

UNIQUE for Both:
Right now in 1T with every drop set having jewels and every drop set scaling to 160 (exception for maelstrom/master/monster) that "jewels unique to drops" thing got a major boost.
Add in the other UNIQUE TO DROPS (1-2pc monster body sets, 2-3pc jewel/wpn sets, maelstrom, master) and its easy to seer that drop sets are absolutely going to have a place in the endgame gear layout no matter what.

because the drop sets have so many different ways to enter that picture that crafted cannot do at all - there is no way anybody is ever gonna be posting "top endgame builds" without drop sets - right? not even "good enough for endgame" will be posting with "no drop pieces"...

Thats fine of course - drop sets should be a part of the game at all levels and in the end game.

But you know, so should crafted sets esp after spending 20-60ish skills to be able to make them.

Right now the only unique thing crafted sets have is cosmetic - appearance - and folks are lining up to give that over to drop sets too with threads upon threads by the drop sets hunter-gatherer crowds.

What i suggest is you should also have a practical substantive capability unique to crafteds that will give them a place at the endgame table right alongside the drop sets whose place is GUARANTEED by their unique configurations.

So, for that i propose 3pc body/wpn and 4pc body/wpn sets able to be crafted.
These dont exist now - so nothing is being taken away from drops.
These dont exist now so they create a lot of options for new build structures beyond the 5-5-2 or 4-4-2-1/1 or the 5-3-2-2 we have now.

These can be brought into existance with a simple change - allow at crafting a crafter to drop one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses from a set creating a "short set" letting them drop away some of the "off" bonuses of the weaker sets. That functionally doubles the number of "crafted sets" available in one instant which helsp to address the massive number of new drops from 1T.

Now, sure, not every endgame build will choose to use 3pc bw or 4pc bw but the options would be there and they would be unique to crafted - which ought to be enough to keep them more than just three or four sets that some builds can use.

It also has a balancing benefit within the crafteds -

the top end crafted sets are that way now because all their bonuses work together - so dropping off one useful bonus is kind of a win-lose thing.

but many of the weaker crafted sets are that way in part because their traits dont all sync together and dropping off the odd-man-out will be a boon to them.

but thats why i keep coming back to unique.

not interested in trying to replace drops sets with numerically superior crafteds making drops obsolete.

interested in setting it up so each class of gear brings its own unique elements and where both are vital parts of the game at every level - endgame included.

@STEVIL

You're missing it.

Endgame....whatever you consider that to be. Food, potions, enchants are only accessible after obtaining the recipe or materials from running harder content or from buying things from people who sale the loot.

What you're saying about crafting sets doesn't align.

The 7-9 trait sets are definately endgame viable but their purpose is to get you to endgame and not replace best in slot as best in slot should only come from doing the content.

The only thing I'd be open to are crafting stations inside of content progression which already exists. Just wait for more dlc.

There isn't a problem with crafting sets to where they need boosting.

Just like ingredients needs for potions or food require doing "endgame" to access the recipe or unlock passives and or writs to find the missing pieces.

Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.

Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear.

why would ppl do anything or buy anything. That's killing everything

@NewBlacksmurf

Potions, glyphs foods - those recipes/ingredients/etc can be acquired in casual play - once you hit the level and have spent the skills you can get endgame level crafteds that make drops obsolete for those three crafts. Just like crafted equip - there are mats involved but these only require casual play not any sort of tough content to get to.

yet, nobody seems to have an issue with crafted potions, glyphs, poisons, foods being go-to for endgame over their drop equivalents.

As for this:
"Your idea is going to remove the point of playing the game. Basically your idea is this.
Make it so crafted gear is best in slot and more customizable over dropped gear."

I can only guess you did not read my post.
Since my proposal did not include adding crafted jewels - drop jewels would still be BIS - not crafted - including the unique jewl/wpn 3pc.

Since my proposal did not propose raising any of the top end crafted sets above where they are now or to VMSA or monster levels, those drops would remain BiS for those builds.

Since my proposal would explicitly leave it impossible to outfit a full character set of gear using only crafted, there would always be a need to go out and do content to gather drops.

Its Ok we dont have to agree.

@STEVIL
Potions, enchants and food cannot be acquired from casual play in terms of endgame which is the context you're making for crafted sets.

Yellow food, yellow enchants or the rune locked b hung tel car stones and killing the goblin in sewers as well as recipes from writs which can only be done if you have a plethora of materials to throw away.

I did read your post in full but somehow you seem to think that your definition of endgame applies to everyone. It doesn't.

Some ppl run in 5 trait gear and do Vet dungeons quit well below 200 Cp and that's their endgame

The next person may consider doing crafting writs endgame.

Another person may consider yellow material collecting is their endgame

While there are still those who consider Vet trials endgame

Your idea directly negates the point of going out and playing which as result impacts the market and will have influence on large amount of players no longer needing to play the game cause if I can just buy crafted gear or buy trait gear, research and then make endgame gear myself. Why would I do anything else?

Which leads to what's the point if I can just craft it....there's no content for it cause I just made it.

Crafted gear is within a tier system and where it's at today is a good place. Once more dlc hits, we'll see more crafting sets which tend to be better than current. That seems to be the trend.

It's just been over 6 months since new sets hit or longer.

Tapio75 · January 2017

Yes

All this talk about gear and endgame is total nonsense.

System that allows player to look how they want, has nothing to do with endgame or crafting as much as it does with people having freedom to make their characters look how they wish them to look and what suits that characters biography.

As much as i think, that crafting should be only means to get best gear in any game because that also keeps economy working unlike loot that creates a market where people can basically get items to sell for free and make tns of money and so forth wwhere crafting has to do with material prices and time invested and so forth. To be a good crafter takes some time especially learning all traits takes time and everyone can buy the stuff they need to be to be competent in dungeons. When crafted materials are best gear in the game, everyone can get it and elitis idiots cant ditch people because they have bad gear, no matter the skill.

Anyways, cosmetic systems such as these should be available in any game these days, your idea of dungeon supremacy be damned when it concerns how people want their characters look like, cosmetic stuff should be to make people have fun and make characters look like the ones threy want to play, not an meter of how awesome min maxer you are.

Therefore, please add cosmetic system where people can select freely how they look, transmog or LOTRO style systems are the ones to take a look at and take in count that restrictions are useless, iuf you get a look you like in any way, you should be able to use it to customise looks of character.

Daraugh · January 2017

Yes

Of course! Turn any item into a style you know. Have it follow the same rule as the dyes and Imperial conversion, once you change it the item is bound.

For crafters who are concerned about end game etc, housing is the crafter's end game.