Pallmor wrote: »

Moonfish wrote: »

Why not simply have Auction Houses where every one in Tamriel can freely exchange stuff.

Most other MMO's have them, but every time someone brings it up here, they get shouted down by the traders in the trade guilds who have a vested interest in keeping prices high and restricting access of others to the market. It really makes me angry that a handful of traders are the only ones who are allowed to sell anything in this game, with no way for anyone else to sell.

And before anyone pipes in with "Well, you could sell stuff in chat" that's like telling someone "Well, you can't vote, but you're free to stand outside a polling place begging for someone to vote *for* you." Standing on a street corner in Riften hawking goods in zone chat is not what I consider fair access to the market.

This game has needed an auction house for a long time. The traders claim that auction houses don't work, yet they sure seem to work just fine in every other MMO out there.

Sadly, ZOS tends to listen to a vocal minority on this and many other issues. I guarantee you that if you polled regular, average players and explained how an auction house works that most of them would be for it.

All speculation and your opinion. And you are wrong about only a handful are able to sell items.

Not going to go through all the reasons you are wrong as they have been posted so so many times before. Just use the search function.

If someone says they are not able to get in a guild with a trader then they have not tried and can only blame themselves.

Jeremy wrote: »

scattered isolated markets

This is actually a good thing. The main problem with a global auction house is that it blocks this from happening.

Jeremy wrote: »

Most of the arguments against having an auction house are ridiculous - such as those that fear market manipulation as if smaller markets controlled by a single guild master aren't a million times more susceptible to market manipulation (which, of course, they are). So these are mostly just smokescreens to hide what was their true objective - which was to avoid the competition of having to sell on an open market so they could keep their prices high. Though at this point their attempts to create a cartel have been significantly undermined by numerous addons and guild traders. So even that is no longer a suitable motive - not even from their perspective. So it basically makes no sense what-so-ever not to have an auction house on this game at this point. It's absence serves no beneficial purpose and does nothing but aggravate and exclude many players from being able to freely participate in the economy.

I am against a global auction house, and I am not the leader or officer in any trading guild. There are times when I have absolutely nothing for sale in any guild trader, so I am not some tycoon looking to stick it to people, either.

I have played the Auction House game, and turning around your statement, the main reason I see "we must haz auction house" is because it is so much easier to play the Auction House game when everything can be done in a single stop. When that happens, the only thing keeping the Auction House game players at bay is the ToS prohibition on automation, and we all know how much that gets enforced.

I am sure that some of people who hate guild traders are running from trader to trader trying to play the Auction House game, and that must be terribly frustrating for them. You hear about them, from time to time. They run from trader to trader looking for deals so they can resell them. With a few friends, and some dedication, they can cover a lot of guilds this way, but it takes time or manpower to do it.

The best thing about guild traders is that no single player can get a picture of the entire economy in a single stop. This results in some traders that sell for more, and some that sell for less. It offers a range of prices, and removes the need for everyone to be selling at "1 gold less" so that they sort to the top in hopes of getting the sale in the next 15 seconds, before someone comes along and posts for 1 gold less and knocks them off the top.

When I am looking for an item, I stand a better chance of finding a lower price for the item because it is necessary to move from trader to trader to find it. That increases the chance that this lower priced item will still be there when I get there. In a global auction house, "deals" are snapped up instantly. People running add-ons camped on the auction house can grab this stuff before I even know it is there, and all they are going to do is re-list it for more, or sit on it until the price goes up.

Yes, we can use add-ons like Master Merchant to "set" prices, but MM only knows what it sees, and that is not a picture of the global economy. This also helps to introduce pricing differences between traders.

Guild Traders are the right direction. It is the implementation that needs to be adjusted. To start, they need to add functionality to the UI by adding in proper sorting and search features that persist from trader to trader, day to day. Console guild traders are abysmal and the game should have never shipped with it in this state. PC is bad, but add-ons fix most of it.

As for access to the traders, I know that there are guild out there with traders that are not full. The main problem here is that there is no way for players to FIND those guilds. Guild finder is a must, and it is too bad this got pushed into 2017. They also dropped the ball in Homestead. They should have certain houses, namely the ones in urban areas, with a built in external trader that everyone who owns that house can use. Details would have to be worked out, mostly to build in limits, but this would allow people who are unable to find a guild, or are just against guilds, to list stuff "at their doorstep".

Same old debate every time...as for the comments that anyone that's anti AH is a master mind billionaire Guild Master, lol. I'm anti AH as a buyer. Deals would be gone. Tin foil hats on backorder.

Pro AH comments often refer to trading like it gets in the way of playing, again part of the polarising debate. For many people trading IS part of the game, AH would wreck that.

But people want everything for minimum effort these days, which if ZOS keep listening too we'll end up with a FPS COD with spells!

Adapt and overcome, if you play trading in this game as its intended you can do all you need easily. ESO is not WOW. and hopefully never CoD

FAIR AND REASONABLE MARKET ACCESS FOR ALL!! Doesn't have to be equal (for you elitists) just fair!

lordrichter wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

scattered isolated markets

This is actually a good thing. The main problem with a global auction house is that it blocks this from happening.

Jeremy wrote: »

Most of the arguments against having an auction house are ridiculous - such as those that fear market manipulation as if smaller markets controlled by a single guild master aren't a million times more susceptible to market manipulation (which, of course, they are). So these are mostly just smokescreens to hide what was their true objective - which was to avoid the competition of having to sell on an open market so they could keep their prices high. Though at this point their attempts to create a cartel have been significantly undermined by numerous addons and guild traders. So even that is no longer a suitable motive - not even from their perspective. So it basically makes no sense what-so-ever not to have an auction house on this game at this point. It's absence serves no beneficial purpose and does nothing but aggravate and exclude many players from being able to freely participate in the economy.

I am against a global auction house, and I am not the leader or officer in any trading guild. There are times when I have absolutely nothing for sale in any guild trader, so I am not some tycoon looking to stick it to people, either.

I have played the Auction House game, and turning around your statement, the main reason I see "we must haz auction house" is because it is so much easier to play the Auction House game when everything can be done in a single stop. When that happens, the only thing keeping the Auction House game players at bay is the ToS prohibition on automation, and we all know how much that gets enforced.

I am sure that some of people who hate guild traders are running from trader to trader trying to play the Auction House game, and that must be terribly frustrating for them. You hear about them, from time to time. They run from trader to trader looking for deals so they can resell them. With a few friends, and some dedication, they can cover a lot of guilds this way, but it takes time or manpower to do it.

The best thing about guild traders is that no single player can get a picture of the entire economy in a single stop. This results in some traders that sell for more, and some that sell for less. It offers a range of prices, and removes the need for everyone to be selling at "1 gold less" so that they sort to the top in hopes of getting the sale in the next 15 seconds, before someone comes along and posts for 1 gold less and knocks them off the top.

When I am looking for an item, I stand a better chance of finding a lower price for the item because it is necessary to move from trader to trader to find it. That increases the chance that this lower priced item will still be there when I get there. In a global auction house, "deals" are snapped up instantly. People running add-ons camped on the auction house can grab this stuff before I even know it is there, and all they are going to do is re-list it for more, or sit on it until the price goes up.

Yes, we can use add-ons like Master Merchant to "set" prices, but MM only knows what it sees, and that is not a picture of the global economy. This also helps to introduce pricing differences between traders.

Guild Traders are the right direction. It is the implementation that needs to be adjusted. To start, they need to add functionality to the UI by adding in proper sorting and search features that persist from trader to trader, day to day. Console guild traders are abysmal and the game should have never shipped with it in this state. PC is bad, but add-ons fix most of it.

As for access to the traders, I know that there are guild out there with traders that are not full. The main problem here is that there is no way for players to FIND those guilds. Guild finder is a must, and it is too bad this got pushed into 2017. They also dropped the ball in Homestead. They should have certain houses, namely the ones in urban areas, with a built in external trader that everyone who owns that house can use. Details would have to be worked out, mostly to build in limits, but this would allow people who are unable to find a guild, or are just against guilds, to list stuff "at their doorstep".

As I outlined (and as you almost acknowledged) - addons that track prices have already rendered your efforts to shield your prices from the competition of an open market moot. So you can isolate and scatter the markets all you want - it no longer matters at this point because the capital hubs where most of the business is done in tandem with these addons is already controlling the prices. So you now have a central economy rather you like it or not.

The refusal to get behind a auction house is just hurting the trading guilds at this point and limiting the amount of customers they can have. In other words: it's costing you money and it's not making you more profits. You are currently getting none of the benefits of an open market (higher demand and access) yet still competing with every other guild trader out there (due to these addons that track prices). It's a very stupid system and I can't believe people still support it.

I don't mind this idea. I have a lot of epic motif pages and books and some legendary collectibles that I'd love to offer for sale.

I came here from an MMO where trading was 100% public. You just had to get far enough to access a trading terminal, and from there you could search for whatever you wanted to sell, determine a reasonable price for your own goods, and then put your own things on the market. It was a good way to make some money on all the crafting materials that were no longer useful for your level or skill grinding, that you had somehow picked up anyway. When you made a sale, you'd receive mail with your payment -- the fee that you charged minus a small fee for the trading terminal's services. It was easy and fair, and it worked.

Hammy01 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

At the very least the present trading system needs a radical overhaul, and ideally there should be a proper trading system open to all irrespective of whether or not one is in a guild that has won a trader. The present system is certainly dysfunctional, has often been claimed to be corrupt, and that's just for sellers. For buyers it's a nightmare. Whether an auction house is the best alternative is open to debate, but the need for something better than the present system is pretty clear to all except those who profit enormously from it, and we'll see the scale of that with the manor house purchases shortly!

Saying that the system is corrupt is probably an understatement . According to the other thread I was reading it seems that large rich guilds are making fake alt guilds to bid on and get desirable spots so that they have a back up and or sell it to guilds that lost their spot (due to being over bid). The current system is a mess and needs to be overhauled!!

I just don't get why they can't have a centralized Market system in each faction combining of all the guilds that are in that specific faction and if you sell something your guild still gets the profit of it to the bank. That's a 1/2 way mark between all the debate of AH / Guild vendors imo.

Someone should just list out the numerous arguments for and against auction house/ guild traders. That way when someone wheels this horse out for another beating, all the arguments for and against the system can be easily posted.

Or atleast the people for auction house could maybe come up with some different conspiracy theory to post. That way it is atleast an interesting read and not the same as is in the countless other auction house threads.

Imo this is not the worst system, I believe it is the best. And is not in need of am auction house.

In all of my trade guilds we have open slots nearly every day. 2 of them ALWAYS have a trader in a capital city.

If you can't make enough to pay dues for a prime location trader, then you should probably find a guild that has one in a slower location.

And those who are complaining about getting kicked for not paying, well you get what you deserve. Stop trying to free load and not pay your fines. Also I find it hard to believe you get immediate boot for missing dues 1 time. Most demote you and if you still don't pay then you get the boot, and rightfully so.

And I don't care what happens to the money in the guild bank providing they keep a trader every week. It is not easy to run a trade guild and they should get some benefit for doing so. 2 of my main trade guilds have roughly 50 mil in the bank. So I am not concerned in the least that I am being cheated.

If we must continue beating the horse can you please atleast come up with some new conspiracies?

FluffyReachWitch wrote: »

I don't mind this idea. I have a lot of epic motif pages and books and some legendary collectibles that I'd love to offer for sale.

I came here from an MMO where trading was 100% public. You just had to get far enough to access a trading terminal, and from there you could search for whatever you wanted to sell, determine a reasonable price for your own goods, and then put your own things on the market. It was a good way to make some money on all the crafting materials that were no longer useful for your level or skill grinding, that you had somehow picked up anyway. When you made a sale, you'd receive mail with your payment -- the fee that you charged minus a small fee for the trading terminal's services. It was easy and fair, and it worked.

That is how most of the successful MMORPG economies function. Some have tried to split their economy up into individual markets (Final Fantasy 14 to name one) but they quickly saw the error of their ways and reverted back to the tried and true 100% public trading terminal (or auction house) approach. It's a pity the developers of ESO are too stubborn to follow that example. I have no doubt that it has cost them a lot of players.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Someone should just list out the numerous arguments for and against auction house/ guild traders. That way when someone wheels this horse out for another beating, all the arguments for and against the system can be easily posted.

Or atleast the people for auction house could maybe come up with some different conspiracy theory to post. That way it is atleast an interesting read and not the same as is in the countless other auction house threads.

Imo this is not the worst system, I believe it is the best. And is not in need of am auction house.

In all of my trade guilds we have open slots nearly every day. 2 of them ALWAYS have a trader in a capital city.

If you can't make enough to pay dues for a prime location trader, then you should probably find a guild that has one in a slower location.

And those who are complaining about getting kicked for not paying, well you get what you deserve. Stop trying to free load and not pay your fines. Also I find it hard to believe you get immediate boot for missing dues 1 time. Most demote you and if you still don't pay then you get the boot, and rightfully so.

And I don't care what happens to the money in the guild bank providing they keep a trader every week. It is not easy to run a trade guild and they should get some benefit for doing so. 2 of my main trade guilds have roughly 50 mil in the bank. So I am not concerned in the least that I am being cheated.

If we must continue beating the horse can you please atleast come up with some new conspiracies?

You know if you are so sick of reading auction house threads you could simply refrain from reading them.

What about those who get kicked from their trading guilds because they went on vacation or took a break from the game? Did they get what they deserved as well?

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the thing the current trader system rewards more than anything else is common sense. Take the following, for example:

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Joining 5 trade guilds also leaves you no room to join actual PvE or PvP guilds.

Then don't join five trade guilds. How hard is that to understand? Join two, then you've still got room for a PvE, PvP, and a RP guild. All of which, btw, are quite capable of having their own guild stores and biding on their own guild traders.

Seriously, you guys will grasp at any straw you can to justify turning ESO into WoW.

Glurin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

What about those who get kicked from their trading guilds because they went on vacation or took a break from the game? Did they get what they deserved as well?

Yes. Trade guilds are basically a business. It's rather conceited to think you'll still have a job if you come back to work after just disappearing for three months.

When you start comparing this game's economy to having a job I think you make my argument for me better than I ever could.

The trader system in ESO is one of the great things about the game.

Victoria_Marquis wrote: »

New guild store bidding is over for the privilege of buying a place to sell your items,... This is how broken the current system is and why every guild should get a free spot, and why the developers need to create a city with a massive Bazaar for one stop shopping.

Or just put in world linked Auction Houses and get rid of the guild bidding system and stores all together....

We are in five guilds, three if my five guilds got outbid.... Here's the kicker, the GM of our guilds put a bid in for over ten million.
We do not personally own a guild so we do not know what the guild leaders can see on the bidding screens, but we lost to some bids by 100-300 gold over the ten million :,(

They say it's a blind bid, so you have no idea what to put in and it's a one time bid so you can't go back in and rebid if someone out bids you. And if you loose your bid you cannot go back and bid on a new spot, even if it's in Timbuktu....

On top of that you do not get all your gold back if you loose the bid, so it's extremely frustrating for the guild leaders, and the guild members.

We need to get a hold of the developers and start petitioning them to eather put in an Auction House, or make a place where every guild gets a random free spot in a trade City Bazaar, or something.

We are in some old guilds, and even with ten million we do not have a guild store open to everyone.... We can imagine how desperately unfair it must be for new Guilds to try and get off the ground when mega guilds get the best spots all the time....

Fortunately our other two guilds got prime locations, going to have to sell high in those Guilds now to help fund and rebuild the gold for next week's bidding of the other three that has no store.

No wonder why everyone sells junk items for thousands of gold. And why guilds have to have guild fees for the privilege just to be in a guild, and that is not a one hundred percent guarantee that you will have any public store.....

Perhaps if the developers want to keep this kind of public store idea they should fix up the system a bit to make it fair for small guilds and new guilds, currently there is no way to contend with the max member older mega guilds, like I stated above we are in five of them, and even then three of them with the members and gold we have was still not enough to grant them a store spot.....

So here is an idea we propose.... Take out the bid system, replace it with a random generator that takes every guild that has the minimum requirements and qualifications of members to have a public store and randomly give every guild a store front somewhere in the world.

Yes this means that some weeks you may be out in Timbuktu, and other weeks you may get a prime high foot traffic spots like a City, but the plus side is even if you got a bad location at least you will have a guild store that is open to the public.. Or give every guild a slot in some big Trading City where you go to one place to shop, like a supper Bazaar.

Thank you for your time and considerationd..

Is there some kind of achievement or prize or something if you manage to become the richest being on Nirn? Why is there some kind of obsessive overwhelming need to make bazillions of gold? Even with houses, what's the point? If you have to make hundreds of thousands of gold every single week to support your guilds so you can make hundred of thousands of gold every week so you can support your guilds so you can make hundreds of thousands of gold every week.....why are you bothering with a role playing game? There has to be some other game out there where being a merchant prince is the whole point of the game.

There are guilds in the game that don't have selling requirements [honestly, if I have to do something for hours every day, it isn't a game any longer, its a job, and I already have one] don't have dues, have voluntary raffles, and still get a trader in Grahtwood every week. Sales are pretty decent, too. Not in the hundreds of millions an hour some people seem to expect of course, but decent. I had 30 items listed and sold them all in the first 24 hours, and it wasn't even super desirable items.

I would much rather keep the individual guild traders than open the system up to the huge "sell a million gold a hour or get kicked from the guild" mafia guilds. There are business sim games. This isn't one of them.