Anyone mind taking the time to explain One Tamriel to an old fart like me? (24yr old)

Bradleyastab14_ESO · January 2017

Ill keep this brief as possible

1. If levels have been normalized across the board- does this mean there is no benefit to leveling, other than adding complexity? Does a level 15 do literally the same amount of poop as a level 40?

2. If the answer to the above question is no, then are champion points still a substantial thing at all?

3. Was the world really opened up? I really disliked how zones felt so claustrophobic due to being surrounded by mountains like in WoW, which has flying mounts to make up for it.

4. Does this have any impact on pvp? Last time i went into pvp with my level 50 i got killed really fast by one person, despite being full heavy spec with sword and board. I died like, in 5 seconds to one person, never pvp'd after that

Now, just my opinion here (correct me if i'm wrong)

If the levels were normalized, wouldn't the game become stale? Skyrim and Oblivians mobs leveled up over time the longer you played, got better armor, and evolved. What was once a street side bandit in hide armor is now a full fledged highwayman with deadric armor and enchantments. This kept the formula fresh for a really long time.

Sigtric · January 2017

1. Low level toons are overbuffed to compete against CP160 NPC enemies. The leveling process is still for unlocking attributes and earning skills. It feels a little weird at times during the leveling process but a level 49 is more powerful than a level 3 due to having more skills and passives/better armor.
2. CP are still substantial and the REAL progression system in the game
3. When they say opened up it means no more faction restrictions. At any level, at any point in the story line, you can go to any zone in the game. Nothing was changed on the maps.
4. PVP is it's own beast entirely. The level scaling system in PVE with 1Tam is much the same battle leveling buff you get in PVP if you go in at a low level, but the way damage and healing works in Cyrodiil is much different. People in Cyro usually are built to be very survivable or built to burst people down very quickly. Your normal PVE builds don't work so well in PVP

BlackSparrow · January 2017

1. Yes and no. Basically, everything under CP160 is scaled up to "equalize" them. To compensate, early levels have their health, magicka, and stamina buffed to the moon, so it's not uncommon to see your attributes decreasing as you level. However, everything else still levels normally. Gear gets better, skills progress, etc.

2. CP are absolutely substantial. If anything, they're more powerful than before, because they're the thing that lift you above the 160CP cap that everyone else is leveled to.

3. Nope, zones are still bordered by mountains and slaughterfish. The geography has not actually changed. But you can travel from zone to zone freely and not have to worry about the local fauna being either too weak or too strong.

4. To my knowledge, PvP hasn't changed that way. If anything, the rest of the game has been changed to mimic how Cyrodiil and the DLC zones battle scale. Like I said, CP points matter, when everything else is equalized.

Staleness is entirely up to the individual. Some people think One Tamriel killed the game, others think it saved it. There is still some sense of progression, but it's more subtle than before. This frustrates some people. Others find that they don't really care about that sort of progression, and care more about advancing their skills and gear.

The best thing to do is just hop in and see if it's to your taste. You may be disappointed, or you may be pleasantly surprised.

DeadlyRecluse · January 2017

Bradleyastab14_ESO wrote: »

Ill keep this brief as possible

1. If levels have been normalized across the board- does this mean there is no benefit to leveling, other than adding complexity? Does a level 15 do literally the same amount of poop as a level 40?

2. If the answer to the above question is no, then are champion points still a substantial thing at all?

3. Was the world really opened up? I really disliked how zones felt so claustrophobic due to being surrounded by mountains like in WoW, which has flying mounts to make up for it.

4. Does this have any impact on pvp? Last time i went into pvp with my level 50 i got killed really fast by one person, despite being full heavy spec with sword and board. I died like, in 5 seconds to one person, never pvp'd after that

Now, just my opinion here (correct me if i'm wrong)

If the levels were normalized, wouldn't the game become stale? Skyrim and Oblivians mobs leveled up over time the longer you played, got better armor, and evolved. What was once a street side bandit in hide armor is now a full fledged highwayman with deadric armor and enchantments. This kept the formula fresh for a really long time.

1. Levels no longer effect stats in a linearly progressive way--the distribution of attributes still matters, and you accumulate passives and skills as you level. So yes-and-no: now a level 15 is close to doing the same amount of poop as a level 40. What this change really effects is that gear sets, quality, and level matter as you level up. A level 15 in level 15 gear will outperform a level 40 in level 30 gear.
2. CP still matters, and it matters on early level characters as you can apply it right away.
3. The geography hasn't opened up (the zones are the same), but you never have to wait to level into a zone now--you can go to them in any order and with members of any faction.
4. Not really--but if you are rocking a basic questing setup, that's probably your problem. Try the nonvet or no-CP campaigns, perhaps?

In response to your last point: I think the perception of progression in Skyrim is equally fake--sure the bandit has daedric stuff now, but so do you. I never felt like the game stayed any fresher than other models of progression.

Yeah, you are never really going to run into more advanced enemies in topside PvE based on your level, but you run into different stuff constantly just by moving around the world.

Kodrac · January 2017

The real leveling begins at 50. Otherwise known as CP grind. One Tam opens up the world for you to go all over to farm delves, public dungeons, world bosses, and even questing to grind out CPs without the requirements of Cadwell's Silver and Gold. Being able to go anywhere at any level is just a side effect to the real need it answered - CPs aka vertical progression.

MasterSpatula · January 2017

Many people are really excited about the ability to do anything at any time. Others of us (a minority) definitely see the system becoming stale and "flat' and miss a feeling of progression and growth.

The bigger issue is the story, which is ESO's biggest strength, becomes complete gibberish if done out of order.

I'm not sure when Oblivion's greatest flaw metamorphosed into one of its strengths. I think, maybe, I'm the old fart here.

kylewwefan · January 2017

Levels are scaled. You may notice your toon feeling weaker the closer you get to level 50 and the scaling isn't helping as much.

For PvP or at least dueling, I noticed my level 27 felt much stronger than max level toon.

Mwnci · January 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

3. When they say opened up it means no more faction restrictions. At any level, at any point in the story line, you can go to any zone in the game. Nothing was changed on the maps.

Such as finishing the main Coldharbour quest line and

defeating Molag Bal

before you've hit level 20. Not too thrilled with that when it happened,

I much preferred the original way, when walking into a certain area could get you killed, even from trash. Now the only thing to look out for are their nameplate gem level thingys (those red squares next to their name to indicate difficulty, not sure what they're called).

max_only · January 2017

If 24 is an old fart, put me in the grave already.

One Tamriel let people pick whatever race they want and still play PVE together without faction restriction. It's so that if you make an Altmer and your casual friend makes a Dunmer, you can both meet up in any starter city and do things together. They just can't go to Cyrodiil together. It made it so that "middle" level zones don't feel empty because now you have everyone every where.

I have some issues (regarding crafting) but it did bring a lot of new people to the game so it's a win in the end.

Jeremy · January 2017

max_only wrote: »

If 24 is an old fart, put me in the grave already.

This is similar to what I was thinking.... lol

24 is not old.

BlackSparrow · January 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

If 24 is an old fart, put me in the grave already.

This is similar to what I was thinking.... lol

24 is not old.

(Psst, guys, I think that's the joke)

Also, I figured I'd link this concurrent thread in case you haven't run across it yet. It addresses your progression-related questions, with substantial points on both sides.

hmsdragonfly · January 2017

Bradleyastab14_ESO wrote: »

Ill keep this brief as possible

1. If levels have been normalized across the board- does this mean there is no benefit to leveling, other than adding complexity? Does a level 15 do literally the same amount of poop as a level 40?

2. If the answer to the above question is no, then are champion points still a substantial thing at all?

3. Was the world really opened up? I really disliked how zones felt so claustrophobic due to being surrounded by mountains like in WoW, which has flying mounts to make up for it.

4. Does this have any impact on pvp? Last time i went into pvp with my level 50 i got killed really fast by one person, despite being full heavy spec with sword and board. I died like, in 5 seconds to one person, never pvp'd after that

Now, just my opinion here (correct me if i'm wrong)

If the levels were normalized, wouldn't the game become stale? Skyrim and Oblivians mobs leveled up over time the longer you played, got better armor, and evolved. What was once a street side bandit in hide armor is now a full fledged highwayman with deadric armor and enchantments. This kept the formula fresh for a really long time.

It's basically the same system as in Skyrim and Oblivion.

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

Interesting.This is why I did not see any NPCs / enemies with a stated level. Honestly I am not sure if I like this idea or not. For one, no more steam rolling older content, one shoting things without much effort. That truly made me smile back in 2015. Oh well.

I'm enjoying the game for what it is now. I simply strolling along and working towards completing the main story as I work towards obtaining all of the skyshards that are available to me as I play.

hmsdragonfly · January 2017

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Interesting.This is why I did not see any NPCs / enemies with a stated level. Honestly I am not sure if I like this idea or not. For one, no more steam rolling older content, one shoting things without much effort. That truly made me smile back in 2015. Oh well.

I'm enjoying the game for what it is now. I simply strolling along and working towards completing the main story as I work towards obtaining all of the skyshards that are available to me as I play.

That system has been proven to be amazing in Oblivion and Skyrim. People love it there, and people love it here

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Bradleyastab14_ESO wrote: »

Ill keep this brief as possible

1. If levels have been normalized across the board- does this mean there is no benefit to leveling, other than adding complexity? Does a level 15 do literally the same amount of poop as a level 40?

1. Levels haven't been normalized. Characters attributes are being scaled up if you're below 50 in many environments and cp160. The obvious benefit is leveling skills, unlocking skills as well as leveling and progressing different skill lines.

A. A Lower level or pre-50 can possibly produce similar damage to a higher leveled character but absent of passives and skills, they aren't nearly powerful or effective. Gear also plays into this in a positive and equally negating manner.

2. If the answer to the above question is no, then
are champion points still a substantial thing at all?

A. Yes, CP are still substantial and noticeable regardless of how a character is being scaled.

3. Was the world really opened up? I really disliked how zones felt so claustrophobic due to being surrounded by mountains like in WoW, which has flying mounts to make up for it.

A. The world is more open in terms of the required quest locking
Take for example silver and gold zones.

4.Does this have any impact on pvp? Last time i went into pvp with my level 50 i got killed really fast by one person, despite being full heavy spec with sword and board. I died like, in 5 seconds to one person, never pvp'd after that

A. I can't answer His well as I don't PvP so to speak. I do PvEin th campaigns but I've not felt any noticeable changes between PvE and PvP on lower than 50 characters of mine.

Now, just my opinion here (correct me if i'm wrong)

If the levels were normalized, wouldn't the game become stale? Skyrim and Oblivians mobs leveled up over time the longer you played, got better armor, and evolved. What was once a street side bandit in hide armor is now a full fledged highwayman with deadric armor and enchantments. This kept the formula fresh for a really long time.

You really need to jump in and play it for yourself. Your experiences will differ depending upon the character, gear, cp and real time decisions.

The game no longer forces certain paths in terms of PvE and other than the old veteran dungeon requirements, everything is now open once you hit level 10+ within reason.

TheShadowScout · January 2017

1. There is benefit. All those skill points to spend in nifty passives... all those skills that get unlocked, morphed and maxed... that is where the benefit is, not in mere levels these days... those count for much, even though lowbie characters are overbuffed to make up for that lack so they still have a chance in cyrodil...

2. Champion points are still the main thing to look at. That's where the real character progression is these days... (gear aside, of course)

3. Nope, and won't until someone invents much better computers and servers. Since those zones are mostly to keep lag down to a manageable level... but now you can go anywhere right from the start, instead of having to wait for cadwells silver/gold. if you want to - I personally prefer following the questlines anyhow.

4. Not so much. You still get wiped in seconds by the mastergankers, but everyone is battle-levelled, so even lower characters can have some successes against the more rank and file population of cyrodil... PvP in ESO can be nifty, or annoying. If you run with a warband, you can contribute nicely even if you are merely adequate at PvP (like me), but sometimes... the enemy just has the superior numbers and then you slink home in defeat (can still be fun though if the fight is close enough that it stays a -fight- and not a rout). And every so often you meet someone all too eager to show off their big PvPness, and then you end up feeling sore because they take you before you even know what is happening, and you wake up by the nearest respawn location and curse them for being such a pain in the bu... uhm... posterior.

But I would not consider the game stale... the "level equalization" just means you are always levelled to the content, no overlevelling mobs, but also no running into overlevelled enemies because your wandering feet took you on an exploration tour and you found the bridge from stonefalls to the rift, stormhaven to bangkorai, or something like that... no matter where you go, that bandit jumping out of the woods will be a threat, but always a manageable one. (soloing the world bosses on the other hand... well, better bring friends, maybe the best players can do it, but the buff means they are now a challenge for a even small group instead of the pushovers they sometimes were back before OT)

Of course, gear means very little now until you hit level 50 and CP160. But rejoice, all gear you find scales to your levgel too, so you can always spend some time farming one region for a nifty set... and never have the problem that you stumble upon a chest, but sigh as its in a lowbie region and the gear inside just wouldn't be worth it...

The -really- fun part is that with OT, all alliances are mixed up. No longer do AD, DC and EP quest in their own regions, now everyone is questing in shared regions. Which means... you can invite the guy who ganked you in cyrodil for a mug of mead in windhelm. Much better for roleplayers, lemme tellya.

MasterSpatula · January 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Interesting.This is why I did not see any NPCs / enemies with a stated level. Honestly I am not sure if I like this idea or not. For one, no more steam rolling older content, one shoting things without much effort. That truly made me smile back in 2015. Oh well.

I'm enjoying the game for what it is now. I simply strolling along and working towards completing the main story as I work towards obtaining all of the skyshards that are available to me as I play.

That system has been proven to be amazing in Oblivion and Skyrim. People love it there, and people love it here

Let's not rewrite history here. The entire reason why enemy damage and resistance is not determined by gear in Skyrim is because of how clumsy and immersion-breaking it was in Oblivion. Dungeons full of Goblin Warlords or of Marauders in all Daedric were incredibly dumb.

The scaling system of Skyrim works precisely because Bethesda learned their lesson from how badly they implemented it in Oblivion.

(I swear, next we're going to start hearing about how great the cookie-cutter dungeons in Oblivion were.)

hmsdragonfly · January 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Interesting.This is why I did not see any NPCs / enemies with a stated level. Honestly I am not sure if I like this idea or not. For one, no more steam rolling older content, one shoting things without much effort. That truly made me smile back in 2015. Oh well.

I'm enjoying the game for what it is now. I simply strolling along and working towards completing the main story as I work towards obtaining all of the skyshards that are available to me as I play.

That system has been proven to be amazing in Oblivion and Skyrim. People love it there, and people love it here

Let's not rewrite history here. The entire reason why enemy damage and resistance is not determined by gear in Skyrim is because of how clumsy and immersion-breaking it was in Oblivion. Dungeons full of Goblin Warlords or of Marauders in all Daedric were incredibly dumb.

The scaling system of Skyrim works precisely because Bethesda learned their lesson from how badly they implemented it in Oblivion.

(I swear, next we're going to start hearing about how great the cookie-cutter dungeons in Oblivion were.)

OK, so that system has been proven to be amazing in Skyrim. People love it there, people love it here

Saltypretzels · January 2017

OP, at 24 you are probably younger than the average player. Don't assume that Elder Scrolls players are in high-school and college, many of us fell in love with it twenty years ago when we were in high school and college!

ZOS_JohanaB · January 2017

We've moved this thread to Players Helping Players

STEVIL · January 2017

Bradleyastab14_ESO wrote: »

Ill keep this brief as possible

1. If levels have been normalized across the board- does this mean there is no benefit to leveling, other than adding complexity? Does a level 15 do literally the same amount of poop as a level 40?

2. If the answer to the above question is no, then are champion points still a substantial thing at all?

3. Was the world really opened up? I really disliked how zones felt so claustrophobic due to being surrounded by mountains like in WoW, which has flying mounts to make up for it.

4. Does this have any impact on pvp? Last time i went into pvp with my level 50 i got killed really fast by one person, despite being full heavy spec with sword and board. I died like, in 5 seconds to one person, never pvp'd after that

Now, just my opinion here (correct me if i'm wrong)

If the levels were normalized, wouldn't the game become stale? Skyrim and Oblivians mobs leveled up over time the longer you played, got better armor, and evolved. What was once a street side bandit in hide armor is now a full fledged highwayman with deadric armor and enchantments. This kept the formula fresh for a really long time.

1 - no - the "gain is horizontal" now - as you level you unlock more skills more trees more options and gain capabilities like bar swapping and the like. there is a huge difference in what a lvl 40 magica sorc can do vs what a level 5 mag sorc can do as far as handling threats. That is why, for instance, you tend to see the starter zones" with fewer open air mobs of three and mostly just one guy or one wolf but when you get to DLC or final zones you see trios and up wit5h spellcaster, bruiser and archer or other diverse groups of threats.

2 - CP matter.

3 - yes - the characters i have leveled since !t have done so in vastly different ways than the ones from vet days or from post-vet pre-1t days.

4 - I think pvp always scaled but maybe not the same way.

But really, truly, for #1 there is almost no actual difference in scaled 1T and the old way "if you ran the old content as intended".

I the old days you got better stats but as you moved thru content following the path and breadcrumbs so did your opposition. You could go off the path but then odd things could happen like getting useless materials, reduced xp, etc. You would upgrade your gear as you advanced because "more powerful" gear became available.

Now, the difference is regardless of "the path" the scaling makes it play just like you "are on the path". Just like in the "on the path" days your enemies and you are on basically even keel. Your mats and rewards are suited to you. if you dont get your armor up to snuff as you level and let it lag behind then you start underperforming, just like it used to do if you did not get the higher bonus armor.

Difference now is everywhere is played at the "on the path" levels.

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Interesting.This is why I did not see any NPCs / enemies with a stated level. Honestly I am not sure if I like this idea or not. For one, no more steam rolling older content, one shoting things without much effort. That truly made me smile back in 2015. Oh well.

I'm enjoying the game for what it is now. I simply strolling along and working towards completing the main story as I work towards obtaining all of the skyshards that are available to me as I play.

That system has been proven to be amazing in Oblivion and Skyrim. People love it there, and people love it here

The only ES game I played was the first, have not gotten into the other games as I was busy playing other solo RPG games.

I am here playing ESO due to other MMO games being super greedy. ESO has a nice balance has not moved to a P2W model that many MMO games are now moving towards.

greylox · January 2017

24! Far from old