Calling all DKs in regards to Flames of Oblivion AoE

MaxwellC · January 2017

Please voice your opinion regarding flames of oblivion being changed back to an AoE with new features rather than the negative effects once applied (magicka drain a second and I think you were slowed) since sorcerers get 3 buffs when using hurricane (Originally our ability). Below is what it looked like back then. Link to PTS forum post - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314738/please-give-dks-back-our-flames-of-oblivion-aoe#latest

This forum post I'm linking is located in the PTS section but I solely want to garner more attention since I believe we could get a change since @ZOS_RichLambert gave sorcerers a buff when there was an 'overwhelming outcry' for the changes in their curse. This ability has superior functionality in comparison to what we have now and if it were to apply increased DoT damage maybe 20% of your DK moves then it would definitely be worth using DoTs in PvP at-least against players who do not have access to purge/purify.
This ability would increase our AoE damage for both Magicka DK and Stamina DK; many others suggested that it could apply minor magicka steal while slotted, it would be a good thing to help our sustain issues since we're not getting any sustain changes this upcoming patch as it seems. Please help me attempt to make this a reality as this skill was the symbol of the dragon knight class back then and it sucks that another class simply has this skill but in a different form.

https://youtu.be/K6aHgR4n1CI

AlwaysOnFire · January 2017

I don't currently use Flames of Oblivion because I run with Treasure Hunter light armor, which provides Major Prophecy without spending a move slot. For me, having to re-apply FoO literally every 5 seconds was a real drag, especially with also having to manage spiked armor, burning embers, fragmented shield, igneous weapons, various aoes, popping dragon fire scale etc. at times. If if someone could tell me that damage gain is really, really superior (though I personally never really noticed its impact for all the times it was left unactivated) I could be persuaded to put it back on the old bar again

I really miss when it was a toggle but I understand why it's not one anymore. Even if it's still a pain to juggle five rather than six balls, so to speak.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@AlwaysOnFire
Well the old version was an AoE and I prefer it to just be one click activated as it messes up your rotations when you DPS unless you have it on both bars.
It does pretty good damage now but as an AoE it would be better as it do deal damage a second instead of damage every 5 seconds. Depending on the values they input for it's new damage output (if they make it an AoE again fingers crossed) it would easily outpace the current flames of oblivion as it has more potential to crit more often and if it does like 6-7k damage a second then it would be even better.

psychotic13 · January 2017

I'm not a fan of the current or the old flames of oblivion, it needs to be stronger for sure, not sure how they'd do that though

souravami · January 2017

Why not make it a toggle like bound armor that sorcs have. Applying it every five second completely messes up the DPS rotation. And mag DK rotation is probably most difficult in game as you have to maintain like 5-6 dots. So changing it into a toggle will actually make mag DK rotations less of a hassle.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@souravami
The reason why because you'd need to use it on both bars and the more abilities you have on your bar that can be utilized in a rotation the better. You would have to switch it back on instead of just applying it when you switch to your back bar.

All in all I just want my AoE flames of Oblivion

AlwaysOnFire · January 2017

souravami wrote: »

Why not make it a toggle like bound armor that sorcs have. Applying it every five second completely messes up the DPS rotation. And mag DK rotation is probably most difficult in game as you have to maintain like 5-6 dots. So changing it into a toggle will actually make mag DK rotations less of a hassle.

mDK feels like

Sigtric · January 2017

I would love for it to be a small radius ( almost Grothdar like aoe) . Add a DOT buff to it and call it a day

DschiPeunt · January 2017

Is this some sort of troll thread? Or am I missing the point?

MaxwellC · January 2017

@DschiPeunt
I believe you're missing the point if possible explain what makes you feel this is a troll thread. The ability Flames of Oblivion used to be an AoE as the video shows. It was better as an AoE in comparison to what we have now although it could do without the negative effectives.

Narvuntien · January 2017

I like the crit chance but always forget to activate it.

leepalmer95 · January 2017

I like it as it is currently, it's useful in duels.

DschiPeunt · January 2017

I think that Flames of Oblivion is one of the strongest skills the DKs has right now. It's the strongest DoT of the class and I use it in duels as well, because of the high damage it does, to do some burst combos. It hits like a truck! With 18-20k average damage per hit and 4 hits per activation it is a skill that does almost 80k damage by pressing one button.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@leepalmer95
And the AoE version of it wouldn't be? I mean back then that use to be the thing when you had the pools for it. I remember throwing down my cinder storm and talon someone in it while I had that on.

gard · January 2017

Wow, this looks kinda like hurricane, but with a smaller radius. ZOS really loves their stam sorc don't they?
If I'd started off as a dk I'd be pissed!

leepalmer95 · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@leepalmer95
And the AoE version of it wouldn't be? I mean back then that use to be the thing when you had the pools for it. I remember throwing down my cinder storm and talon someone in it while I had that on.

Well no because the aoe version wouldn't hit as hard and it wouldn't have the range, i don't need aoe in duels.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@DschiPeunt
If you used the ability back then, then you'd know it definitely would out perform current days flames of oblivion which is single target. It was a strong AoE but unfortunately I cannot bring values that I had long ago to showcase that and it would look different because the game has changed in terms of combat and resource pools.

Addition: I highly doubt you're hitting 18k in duels and in a PvE setting with buffs ofc it hits high I won't dispute that because I use it in PvE and can see the numbers that it pulls every 5 seconds. That doesn't necessarily mean that the AoE version wouldn't pull less, sure single target wise it may pull 2k-3k less but as an overall function against mobs e.g. Hel Ra Citadels bottom boss, it would pull way more DPS.

I feel side by side damage wise Flames of Oblivion AoE would definitely outpace the current form with same buffs applied. If we could at the very least get the opportunity to test it then I could easily back up my claim. After using this ability numerous times in the past that's where my claim stems from but those who hadn't used it before may not agree with me or even if they have they may not want it back as long as the negative effects are applied to it.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@leepalmer95
So there's no need for AoEs in duels? Hurricane is by far one of the most useful abilities in duels, templars purifying ritual or w/e the ground AoE that slows you consistently is definitely useful, and so is caltrops. AoEs are definitely useful in duels and when it comes to flames of oblivion hitting less I can't really say that it does or would be higher as the values would have to be readjusted as the AoE died before the combat changed.
Flames of Oblivion may be useful in duels (although I rarely use it in duels only in PvE) but I feel the AoE would be better especially as a Mag DK since it would provide consistent damage + you usually have to be right on the target to pop your flash lash/embers in a duel to begin with anyway.

DschiPeunt · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@DschiPeunt
If you used the ability back then, then you'd know it definitely would out perform current days flames of oblivion which is single target. It was a strong AoE but unfortunately I cannot bring values that I had long ago to showcase that and it would look different because the game has changed in terms of combat and resource pools.

Addition: I highly doubt you're hitting 18k in duels and in a PvE setting with buffs ofc it hits high I won't dispute that because I use it in PvE and can see the numbers that it pulls every 5 seconds. That doesn't necessarily mean that the AoE version wouldn't pull less, sure single target wise it may pull 2k-3k less but as an overall function against mobs e.g. Hel Ra Citadels bottom boss, it would pull way more DPS.

I'm not saying, that the old version would be worse than the current one. But I think, that the current version is quite useful. As a PvE mDK I already have really high AoE damage in Boss fights, with Engulfing Flames, Eruption, Wall of Elements and Grothdarr. I don't think DKs need more AoE skills for those situations and I'd rather stick to the skill verion, that allows me a higher single target DPS, since only the single target DPS determines how long a fight is going to take.

Obvioulsy, I do not pull 18k in duels, that would be 9k player health from a single skill and that would be OP. The values are pure PvE raid values, but I can assure you, that the skill, as it is, hits quite hard in duels as well. I agree, that it's not as good as Hurricane, but I do not think, that we should give all classes a skill like Hurricane, but rather nerf Hurricane, because it's completely broken right now.
That's why I think there is no need to change the skill, since it's useful for a lot of situations and deals really good single target damage and because there are enough AoE skills for the DK.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@DschiPeunt
I see your point but as a Mag class you get a lot of AoEs sure but as a stam you don't have access to any and in regards to hurricane we had this ability at-least as far as I could remember when craglorn came out (when I joined). Hurricane is a copy of our ability and so is grothdarr.
There's one technically two AoEs for Mag DK (Class ability wise) while Stam has none. If we add all class skills then we would have two Caltrops/arrow barrage.

Single target is something we have but the lack of AoE is considerable (which is why Stam builds are being phased out in end game PvE content unless you're tanking). With the changes to the monster set I do believe Grothdarr will be outpaced by skoria just my thought on that part.
If the AoE were to come back as stated before a lot of players wanted a new ability alongside the crit it provides such as increasing the DoT damage you deal with your DK class specific skills. If that change were to come in hand wouldn't that make it even better to slot especially if the DoT damage was increased around 20% (to favor PvP) which would influence PvE greatly for having more Stam DKs and Mag DKs rather than Sorcs/templars (sorry NBs but no one likes you... jk)

DschiPeunt · January 2017

@MaxwellC
We actually have 2 Stamina DKs in our raid group, but I see your point. Maybe they could change only one morph to be more like Hurricance, because let's be honest: Cauterize is a useless skill.
That way, one could decide between a more AoE like or more single target playstyle.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@DschiPeunt
That I can agree with maybe the ball can go cauterize and the AoE on FoO (because of 'Flames'). My trial group we only had 2 stam DKs but one was the tank n the other the DPS, we did also have a stam sorc but for negate and hurricane.

Sigtric · January 2017

Skill adjustment and balance should never be based off of 1v1/duels