Why is ZeniMax only focusing on PVE?

DHale · January 2017

It's because 95 % of player base are pve players.

Uriel_Nocturne · January 2017

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Soella wrote: »

Because this is MMO RPG, and no RPG in PvP?

PvPers have a lot of alternatives, MOBA games to start with, and therefore there is no chance to be the best in this area. With last year changes ESO is doing solid claim to become best from PVE PoV.

I think it was very valid decision to make a turn from mainly PvP oriented game (as ESO was advertised before launch) to mainly PvE game with some PvP for those who cannot leave without it.

Plenty of RPGs have had PvP. The whole argument that MMORPGS should be without it is baseless. I do both as well as a slew of other things with the smaller sub-communities within the genre and being jaded against a particular one is not only detrimental to the lifecycle of the game, it's detrimental to the community as a whole.

I come from a time in MMORPG history when no MMORPG had any PvP aspects.

Purely in my opinion; MMORPG's have only suffered since PvP was ever added into an MMO. Creating MOBA's and similar games to that genre, specifically FOR PvP is fine, but I don't honestly believe that PvP should have ever been introduced into any MMORPG. I have a whole litany of reasons that I have based this opinion on, but in a short summary, PvP in MMORPG's has been a vast mistake.

And honestly; if PvP were to evaporate from MMORPG's tomorrow as if it had never been there, pretty much every MMO would still keep trucking along just fine.

This is just my opinion. If you or anyone else likes PvP, that's fine. Do what you do. But having an MMORPG (any MMORPG) make a turn in direction to vastly focus on PvE rather than PvP would not be detrimental to those MMORPG's in any way. The reality would be quite the opposite.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO · January 2017

I don't know what this thread is about. Most of the PBE balance changes are focused on PvP and some of them are having a significant negative impact on PvE end game conent.

Example: the only reason that proc sets were set to not crit is because of PvP as they were not providing much of a counter play when fighting a person with 3 proc sets equiped. However. I have not seen a single thread about PvE players complaing about them needing a nerf.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2017

OH god the responses in here.

Isellskooma wrote: »

Cause that's where all the $$$ comes from.

All the $$$ comes from selling a deer/llama hybrid stretched over a horse skeleton for more crowns than the cost of ANY individual PvP or PvE DLC to date.

Imperial City: 2500 Crowns
Wrothgar: 3000 Crowns
Thieves Guild: 2000 Crowns
Dark Brotherhood: 2000 Crowns
Shadows of the Hist: 1500 Crowns
Deer/Llama Hybrid Stretched over a horse skeleton: 4500 Crowns

Do you think PvE'rs spend more money in the crown store? I sure kill a lot of people off their stupid deer/llamas in PvP.
Also as a PvP'er I have done several race changes, name changes, and added all the character slots all of that is crowns in the bank for ZOS.

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Because PvE is what makes money in ESO.

If you sell PvE DLCs, people will buy them and PvE will make them money. If you sell PvP DLCs people will buy them and PvP will make them money. Lets look at what they have put out so far.

Imperial City: PvE grinding moshpit with PvP as an afterthought. Also has TWO huge PvE-only dungeons
Wrothgar: PvE Only
Thieves Guild: PvE Only
Dark Brotherhood: PvE Only
Shadows of the Hist: PvE Only
Deer/Llama Hybrid Stretched over a horse skeleton: Doesn't belong in this list. I just want to make fun of it some more.

So would it be safe to say PvE has made ZOS more DLC money? Probably since 4/5ths of their DLCs are PvE only. But that doesn't count subscriptions, crown store purchases, etc. Also if they put out more PvP content, more PvP content would be purchased. McDonalds sells a lot more coffee now that they carry premium coffee. Science.

The PvP community has been clamoring for battlegrounds, new content for years. Do you realize how much money ZOS would make if they sold a separate server that emulated what the game was like in 1.5? PvPers would pay a subscription just for that.

Sovaso wrote: »

Because PvE is the basis of this game. Not PvP.

You don't sound like you were here at launch when PvP was endgame and there were no trials. No structured undaunted. All of the marketing for the game showed how amazing the PvP was. Cyrodiil was the pinnacle of endgame experience. Its in the center of the map for a reason. They could have made any zone PvP but the chose the largest one.

Banana wrote: »

Most of the upcoming nerfs are all because of PVP

Most nerfs are due to the power creep caused by the champion system. The proc set nerf does barely anything in PvP. That was a PvE/CP nerf. Note that 25% of your proc set damage comes from the champion system and people were soloing vet dungeons with grothdar.

PvE bosses cant go on the forums and cry for nerfs but if they could, Monster sets would have already been nerfed.

RazielDERF · January 2017

I would say because more people are probably into PvE than PvP. I personally much prefer PvE because no matter how hard I try to make a great PvP character I always get slammed fast by spammers in Cyrodil I hate it.

Dev · January 2017

reguvin wrote: »

Every patch PVE gets polished even better.

We want to see updates in Tamriel which makes PVP enjoyable again.

You have a strange definition of 'polished', this update is nothing but nerfs and cash grabs, what value do you think that they added to help PVE when everything is nerfed?

This is a pvp update and it is just funny watching all the pvp players try to avoid the responsibility, yet again, for ruining this game. Sorry, but this update is ruining so much of the game because of pvp tears.

BlazingDynamo · January 2017

Because PvE keeps this game alive. PvP plays second fiddle and always will.

Zvorgin · January 2017

There are a lot of balances coming to pvp, is anyone reading the patch notes for PTS?

Waffennacht · January 2017

I just don't see how anyone could only PvE day in and day out

I literally fall asleep soloing v Dungeons

Prof_Bawbag · January 2017

The words "bread" and "butter" spring to mind. I'm predominately a pve player and played the game for around 2 years on and off and never touched pvp, yet funnily enough, I've spent more time pvping in the last month than I have spent in PvE. PvE is now a chore, it's boring and lacks real content. It's all rather stale. Needs a new landmass.

tonemd · January 2017

So do PVE only players think PVP Balance updates vs PVE Content is on equal footing?

Maybe if ZOS didn't half ass the implementation of its PVP content, PVPers would be more satisfied. IC was a BIG disappointment because the initial district capture plans were scrapped and what we eventually got did not live up to what was promised. All dueling did was display how imbalanced the game truly was. It's about as rewarding and niche as RPing.

And then there's the justice system...

It's not that PVP doesn't get updates. it's just the lack of given f*** accompanying them.

Karivaa · January 2017

I wish we would get a new map for curadiil.

nimander99 · January 2017

Because the VAST majority of players that spend money play pve more than pvp would be my guess...

Dev · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

You don't sound like you were here at launch when PvP was endgame and there were no trials. No structured undaunted. All of the marketing for the game showed how amazing the PvP was. Cyrodiil was the pinnacle of endgame experience. Its in the center of the map for a reason. They could have made any zone PvP but the chose the largest one.

LOL, and LOL again...

What happened at launch was that people went there to get the fast xp and not have to actually do any of the other content. Cyrodil was so broken, that people would go there and get 20 levels a day, people were actually at 50 just from cyrodil within the first week of release.

Then when people saw how much grinding was needed for the VR ranks, the PVP players cried and yelled for 2 years for them to remove the VR ranks because they couldnt be bothered to do any of the Cadwell's silver/gold to get the levels. People still refused to do the quests and instead looked for open world grind spots, which is why almost all of them were removed. Then they added CP to try and offset that, and here the PVP players are now criticizing that.

Seriously, who believes that end game content starts at level 10? The reason that at launch there were no trials is because they didnt expect to need end game before they restocked the shelves from launch (aka within week 1). For all those who were doing the quests, and playing in more then just one zone, well the trials and undaunted were there when they got to v10. The part that everyone missed, was that by just focusing on the MSQ for cadwell S/G, you got the xp needed to hit v10. For V11-16, well that they added without a good way to level, but with all the minor quests, i was able to hit v16 and have the AD/EP/DC hero titles.

As for the marketing, once again the game was NEVER made with the primary focus for PVP. Anyone who thinks that Elder Scrolls means PVP clearly has not played the actual games for which this was based. And no matter how many times people say that this is a PVP game will not make it true.

The marketing focused on the Main Story Quest, aka the Alliance War and the Planemeld. I guess it makes sense since most pvp players dont seem to bother with the quests, but the few who did might have noticed that the Alliance War is in every part of the game. The quest line for all three factions is getting that alliance leader into the position of power and actually lead their army. All the minor quests show how the people living in those parts deal with the war.

The bottom line is clear: Even if this game was actually focused on pvp at any point, that point is done and gone because there was not enough money in it. The proof is in how empty PVP was and is, so much that they closed all the instances until it is just 4 and that is after how many pop lock reductions?

If they ever added a pve version of cyrodil, some other means to earn the Alliance war branch of xp, or even moved some of the abilities out of that branch, cyrodil would have 100 people total at most.

The reality is that while the pvp players might cry the loudest, they are the few and PVE are the many: just as you would expect in any MMORPG.

Uriel_Nocturne · January 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

You don't sound like you were here at launch when PvP was endgame and there were no trials. No structured undaunted. All of the marketing for the game showed how amazing the PvP was. Cyrodiil was the pinnacle of endgame experience. Its in the center of the map for a reason. They could have made any zone PvP but the chose the largest one.

This bold part made me giggle.

Cyrodiil is in the center of the map because of PvE Lore from the Single-player series.

ZOS absolutely did not place Cyrodiil where it is because of some misinformed notion the "PvP is supposed to be the pinnacle of end-game play". lmao

Dev wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

You don't sound like you were here at launch when PvP was endgame and there were no trials. No structured undaunted. All of the marketing for the game showed how amazing the PvP was. Cyrodiil was the pinnacle of endgame experience. Its in the center of the map for a reason. They could have made any zone PvP but the chose the largest one.

LOL, and LOL again...

What happened at launch was that people went there to get the fast xp and not have to actually do any of the other content. Cyrodil was so broken, that people would go there and get 20 levels a day, people were actually at 50 just from cyrodil within the first week of release.

Then when people saw how much grinding was needed for the VR ranks, the PVP players cried and yelled for 2 years for them to remove the VR ranks because they couldnt be bothered to do any of the Cadwell's silver/gold to get the levels. People still refused to do the quests and instead looked for open world grind spots, which is why almost all of them were removed. Then they added CP to try and offset that, and here the PVP players are now criticizing that.

Seriously, who believes that end game content starts at level 10? The reason that at launch there were no trials is because they didnt expect to need end game before they restocked the shelves from launch (aka within week 1). For all those who were doing the quests, and playing in more then just one zone, well the trials and undaunted were there when they got to v10. The part that everyone missed, was that by just focusing on the MSQ for cadwell S/G, you got the xp needed to hit v10. For V11-16, well that they added without a good way to level, but with all the minor quests, i was able to hit v16 and have the AD/EP/DC hero titles.

As for the marketing, once again the game was NEVER made with the primary focus for PVP. Anyone who thinks that Elder Scrolls means PVP clearly has not played the actual games for which this was based. And no matter how many times people say that this is a PVP game will not make it true.

The marketing focused on the Main Story Quest, aka the Alliance War and the Planemeld. I guess it makes sense since most pvp players dont seem to bother with the quests, but the few who did might have noticed that the Alliance War is in every part of the game. The quest line for all three factions is getting that alliance leader into the position of power and actually lead their army. All the minor quests show how the people living in those parts deal with the war.

The bottom line is clear: Even if this game was actually focused on pvp at any point, that point is done and gone because there was not enough money in it. The proof is in how empty PVP was and is, so much that they closed all the instances until it is just 4 and that is after how many pop lock reductions?

If they ever added a pve version of cyrodil, some other means to earn the Alliance war branch of xp, or even moved some of the abilities out of that branch, cyrodil would have 100 people total at most.

The reality is that while the pvp players might cry the loudest, they are the few and PVE are the many: just as you would expect in any MMORPG.

^ This.

OOJIMMY · January 2017

Worth the AP changes to capturing resources and keeps could help worth the state odd cyrodiil. Fights should be more spread out

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

When the majority of an MMORPG's player base exists in PvE (as is the case in... well, every MMORPG), then PvE tends to get the most love. PvE players tend to spend the most money on the game, either through subscriptions or regular Cash Shop purchases, and the PvE side of the game (any MMORPG btw) is the "cash cow" of sustained revenue for an MMO.

Are they ignoring PvP completely? No.

Most every patch/update has "balancing" adjustments for PvP, and a quite healthy number of them. But when most of your player base is on the PvE side, it tends to get the lion's share of DLC-love.

It simply is what it is.

PVE = Revenue
PVP = Get additional Revenue from PVP player that play PVE to get the most out of their PVP character

PVP content is rarely developed or release in most MMOs. Personally if I wanted to play a PVP game, I go pick up a game designed for that, a fighting game like Street Fighter. IMO, MMO should not have PVP due to the imbalance of classes and races. I have seen some PVP players complain when their favorite class is not top and complain when other are asking for their favorite class to be adjusted. PVP players typically ruin PVE player builds resulting in more issues between PVE and PVP.

It is why if I created a MMO, it would be PVE only, but I don't have the funds to do so but I do have the funds to pay to play a MMO and I play the PVE since that is why I pay for my sub.

Uriel_Nocturne · January 2017

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

When the majority of an MMORPG's player base exists in PvE (as is the case in... well, every MMORPG), then PvE tends to get the most love. PvE players tend to spend the most money on the game, either through subscriptions or regular Cash Shop purchases, and the PvE side of the game (any MMORPG btw) is the "cash cow" of sustained revenue for an MMO.

Are they ignoring PvP completely? No.

Most every patch/update has "balancing" adjustments for PvP, and a quite healthy number of them. But when most of your player base is on the PvE side, it tends to get the lion's share of DLC-love.

It simply is what it is.

PVE = Revenue
PVP = Get additional Revenue from PVP player that play PVE to get the most out of their PVP character

PVP content is rarely developed or release in most MMOs. Personally if I wanted to play a PVP game, I go pick up a game designed for that, a fighting game like Street Fighter. IMO, MMO should not have PVP due to the imbalance of classes and races. I have seen some PVP players complain when their favorite class is not top and complain when other are asking for their favorite class to be adjusted. PVP players typically ruin PVE player builds resulting in more issues between PVE and PVP.

It is why if I created a MMO, it would be PVE only, but I don't have the funds to do so but I do have the funds to pay to play a MMO and I play the PVE since that is why I pay for my sub.

I agree completely. Well said.

Zvorgin · January 2017

Why does everything have to be balanced? There is room for imbalance in PvE and PvP. Just because one class / race is more optimal mathematically in some situations (or all situations) doesn't mean it is more enjoyable to play.

PvP and PvE also should not be viewed in a vacuum in my opinion, both have their positives and negatives. I've had as many encounters with sour players in PvP as in PvE.

Daveheart · January 2017

I always got the impression that PvE (at least the kind where balance has any relevance) and PvP, both sit far behind the RPers and just casual explorers in terms of playerbase and revenue. Am I wrong?

Lettigall · January 2017

PvP is lost cause for ZOS. With no subscription fee it doesn't bring money and with terrible lag it doesn't attract players it repels them.

ESO was promoted and started as 3 alliance war game with massive battles in Cyrodiil. Massive battles and with no *** lag. PvP was one of the reasons why this game was bought. It was designed for PvP and PvE! Back in days factions kept campaigns for PvP buffs to do PvE. Now ESO have become primarily PvE focused and PvP become just a side dish of the game!

Marabornwingrion · January 2017

Lettigall wrote: »

ESO was promoted and started as 3 alliance war game with massive battles in Cyrodiil. Massive battles and with no *** lag. PvP was one of the reasons why this game was bought.

Agree. I bought this game mostly for PvP. Unfortunately huge lag in Cyro makes PvP for me unplayable... So I'm doing only dungeons and trials.

Sometimes I'm thinking if I would know about this lag before I bought the game, I would not buy it at all...

Zvorgin · January 2017

Astrid_V wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

ESO was promoted and started as 3 alliance war game with massive battles in Cyrodiil. Massive battles and with no *** lag. PvP was one of the reasons why this game was bought.

Agree. I bought this game mostly for PvP. Unfortunately huge lag in Cyro makes PvP for me unplayable... So I'm doing only dungeons and trials.

Sometimes I'm thinking if I would know about this lag before I bought the game, I would not buy it at all...

At least the changes to rewards for capturing resources and towns may spread some players out away from the inner ring of keeps. Might help with the lag.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2017

My 2 cents as people keep pointing the finger at what causes all the balance changes. Specific nerfs to skills, gear, and style of play are almost always PVP related. If you think the proc set nerf had anything to do with PVE, you are totally f'ing delusional. It was because people (perhaps for good reason) have filled the forums with tears about getting one shot by proc set combos. Nobody in PVE gave a darn. Most serious PVE players use one proc set, a monster helm and shoulder.

More broad changes that typically constitute subtle nerfs to overall damage are more PVE focused as power creep must be addressed. We had run away power creep for a long time in this game. 6 minute AA runs anyone or 10 second Maw fights in COA, etc.

Some nerfs probably have a little of both in play. The nerf to radiant for example. PVP players have been raging about jesus beam for months! PVE players might not have been as concerned with this publicly, but its pretty obvious that a growing number of trial guilds were using more and more templars for DPS. Radiant was OP in any environment.

Please dont sit there and try to blame the other guy. It makes you sound like a 2 year old.

fastolfv_ESO · January 2017

funny seeing carebears jump in with the whole the game was sold as a pve game! 25-30 campaigns with a 1k+ cap full 24/7 at release, 2 years of the temporary forums basically only following how campaign war would work, and no trial at release say otherwise to that

Dev · January 2017

Lettigall wrote: »

PvP become just a side dish of the game!

I agree with what you said, but the part i am quoting brings it all into focus:

PVP is like brussel sprouts:

only a few people really like it
we all had to deal with it when we were young (aka getting skills) and now we ignore it in the supermarket or push it off the plate.
it explains why pvp calls pve: potatoes, they're just upset that PVE is the side that everyone likes
it also explains Zergs: first you have to remember that brussel sprouts come in packs, and because zerging is so mind numbing & boring, you would have to be a vegetable. A starch would never lack the substance like that

TrueGreenSmoker · January 2017

PvE is $$$

RadioheadSh0t · January 2017

starkerealm · January 2017

No one plays PvP. Okay, not, "no one," but not enough to justify spending money on fixes.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Man the game is like 90% PvE so why would you think PvP is getting updates more than PvE