Glurin wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

OP, while people can certainly be a bit more rude on the net than they would be in person (I'll let others try to figure out why), this is not entirely the fault of the players. This is not a problem caused by players, the main root of the problem rests with developers and design of the game in the 1st place. Players react to the design/development and this is what you end up with. In ZOS' defense tho, it's not only them that have made and re-made this mistake, most of them do it. ZOS is just following suit.....

.

True, but a bit misleading. I have played these type of games since Everquest and it's the same thing every single time.

Say there are 8 classes A thru H. After a few months of trial and error the community figures out that A,B,C and D are the best classes and combo to get things done the quickest ( Min/Maxers)

Then the developer makes some adjustments. Tones some classes down, boosts other classes. The min/maxers decide that now the best 4 classes are A,D, F and H. Rest need to apply.

That's the paradox for min/maxers. There will always be the best class/combo. Even if they are only 3% better than the rest. That is the whole point of min/maxers.

There is nothing a game developer can do about that.

Pretty sure you skipped a step after the devs tone some down and boost others. "The min/maxers cry out that the apocalypse has come and make several long winded and overly dramatic posts about how the game is ruined and they are leaving for good."

NovaShadow wrote: »

I have a reach hunch it is the same guild I left. PC NA right? I've already replied but having read more of your messages I couldn't not reply again and refute some of the things you're saying.

magnusthorek wrote: »

TL;DR

Elitism is a cancerous evil and caused my removal of an endgame Guild. Now move a long

It did not cause it, your lack of improvement did.

magnusthorek wrote: »

I've been finally kicked of the end-game guild I was member for almost one year because because of technical details: I didn't manage to get a score against a dungeon boss that helps nothing against the real deal (trial bosses).

The "administration" always announced that Magicka players should achieve at least 30k as DPS while Stamina, 38k. When they first "threatened" purging the guild towards their elitism numbers I was really bad, barely reaching 18k.

Then I improved A LOT getting a DPS mark floating from 32k and up to 41k (once) against trial bosses on veteran difficult (32k was an HM run with a training group). Heck... even the first and only time I did vMoL I've got 35k, even not knowing the slightly different mechanics, learning them just-in-time.

With those results I was happy!

But then came the unnecessary test against an unreasonable and very situational dungeon boss and, although those marks were publicly announced, through mass mails, secretly, behind the scenes, the real goal was 35k for Magicka players. And this unbuffed!

If you were on the outside of the 'private' chats then how do you know it was secretly 35k? Also, people that I did dps tests with were promoted based on the 30k/38k, not this secret mark you seem to think existed.

magnusthorek wrote: »

I was reluctant on doing a DPS test under such circumstances. It didn't make sense! I've sent several DPS parses of important bosses (Warrior, Mage, in between mini-bosses...) and all of them were rejected because "they had adds numbers" even though there were no influence of them on data (only boss name in the reports). But I did my part. i gave up and did the "test" and, when I finally got a DPS Test group after spent THE WHOLE WEEK asking (since we had a deadline tomorrow, Sunday), I didn't manage to get the numbers.

First of all, if you paid attention to the guild mails or asked any of the leaders there were certain bosses they didn't want passes from as there's influence from ads.

Secondly, 1 week. Are you kidding me? The guild was going in this direction a decent 6 months ago (could be 5). There's been deadlines before, Nov 1st comes to mind.

You cannot possibly say you didn't know this wasn't a possibility if you didn't show significant improvement. There was more than enough people in the guild willing to help.

magnusthorek wrote: »

I could blame the group that came with me during the "test" but they're nice fellows and don't deserve that. Did they do a good job on buffs? Can't say, but my latency, although it shows a moderately low number everyday, is a liar and was the real villain to blame. Every action takes like 3 seconds to happen, today was even worse and not only with me. I 'learned to lag" in the course of months of course but, for example, I can't be part of this cancerous community that cancel animations without suffer a double bar swap.

You start off blaming lag then all of a sudden you're blaming animation cancelling. I'm confused.

magnusthorek wrote: »

Now the [Snip] in the fan part!

1) Earlier today the "administration" whispered me "intimidating" I had until tomorrow to present my results.

I wouldn't call it intimidation, the guild mails were sent out in December, there's been months worth of time to get your dps up to scratch, weeks before the 15th deadline. Saying you were intimidated is an overstretch.

magnusthorek wrote: »

This is an international game and people live under different timezones, so much that my Aussie friends were celebrating new year before me. With this in mind, for example, to me, Sunday is tomorrow and I've been kicked 45 minutes ago, which still Saturday.

Seriously, you're pissed because you still had 45 mins left of Saturday.

What were you doing for the 4+ months prior to Jan 15th?

magnusthorek wrote: »

Theoretically I could change gears and try again tomorrow, but I didn't have the chance.

Already had ample time, but I feel like I'm repeating myself.

magnusthorek wrote: »

2) Because of my timezone and the impossibility of playing at night (for most of you) because the server gets too crowded (I've tested it once) I often miss A LOT of opportunities. The only time I managed to go vMoL I had to wake up VERY early to get the "end of dawn" of the guild.

I'm assuming you're in America based on your '45 mins left of Sat' part. You know there was a strong Aussie/NZ/Oceanic part of the guild right? That ran regular trials outside the US Prime Time.

magnusthorek wrote: »

3) During afternoon (here) which is when I usually play, I literally have to beg for pledges or trials for weekly and people don't even answer. I understand if people don't want to do or can't in that moment but why the silence?

Not everyone runs pledges, trials were scheduled, chat was quiet here and there. Time of day plays a big role in who's on and what people want to do. Blanket blaming the whole guild because chat was quiet is wrong.

magnusthorek wrote: »

4) A lot of players in this guild hated me. Even people that used to be friendly to me got so cocky because were considered member of a "core" group started to treat me bad. Some proofs:

- A couple weeks ago we were doing vHRC for weekly I think. I was in a group and when we finished the crown said something like "if you want to go again drop group, change toons and X up in guild". I did and never got the invitation back for a group I WAS ALREADY IN. they quickly filled the DPS role with someone else and didn't have even the decency to explain.

You take things way too personally, on those occassions there was always people waiting who didn't make the cut for the first run. When the first run was over, they'd take a few of those people to make sure they'd get a run.

How do you know it was personal unless you specifically received a whisper from the leader stating such.

magnusthorek wrote: »

Another case, more recent. -

- Today morning a lot of good players online and my first guild message in chat was for a vMoL group for the weekly. everyone silent (again) but then 30 minutes later (I was more or less monitoring the Guild roster) they formed a group in secret (probably through whispers or TS) and did the weekly.

I don't know you but to me, in my country, this characterizes as being personal, but they were too coward to speak to me directly.

Again NOT personal. You do realise as the lowest rank in the guild you were not going to get an invitation anyway, the whole point of that rank was temporary until you provided results of your capability to produce decent dps. It's was stated multiple times.

Oh, and them forming a group in private. Seriously, you expect every single piece of communication to happen via guild chat? People are allowed to whisper one another, and *gasp* form a group outside of guild chat. Yeesh.

magnusthorek wrote: »

5) A long time ago a player joined a vAA group formed by someone else AFTER me. He took the lead and kicked me without reason. I asked why and he threw on my face I was a bad player because he happened to be in the same run I was when learning vAA, that back when the trials was rescaled in which I made mistakes (who don't while learning?). He had balls to do that, I admit, but I argued with him, explained I was learning and got back in the group. and to shut him up I did the whole place flawlessly.

Isn't this personal? I tried to contact the "public relations" of guild, giving my feedback and to make sure it would be read I asked a favor in the message. This favor never happened...

Um, the point of this was what? He kicked you because you were terrible (granted we're all terrible the first time) but you got back in and finished the raid. I don't see why this is relevant.

magnusthorek wrote: »

Anyway...

THE GUILD ASKED TOO MUCH AND PROVIDED TOO LITTLE

Again, months and months of guild mails, guild chat messages and you leave it to the last minute so you can rant about how they kicked you without a fair chance.

magnusthorek wrote: »

If you run or is member of a guild that does veteran trials at different periods of time (something around -5 hours from the time of this topic) and couldn't take the newest homeless DPS of Tamriel without such rudeness and cockiness, please let me know.

[Edited for bypassing the filter]

You need to look for a really chilled out casual guild. I don't think a serious guild would suit you in all honesty. If this is how you react (after months of heads up) it's not for you.

magnusthorek wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

It is their guild to run how they see fit. Your rage is at a cancerous level.

No rage here bro, just showing the facts

Now, something i forgot to say, even knowing my neck was on the line because of my lag, during the Witches Festival I created a tank character and, although I didn't do a great job tanking vAA the first time I tried, for everything else I was really good and even being able to support the guild with a role not many players want to do (relatively speaking) I was kicked.

Wait, so now you're saying you were kicked because you switched to tanking? I swear you just said it was because you couldn't provide an adequate dps parse.

Oh, and it was also mentioned several times (if you bothered to read the guild mails) who to specifically talk to if you were a tank.

magnusthorek wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Plenty of time was goven to players to reach the dps required to pads the tests.

Agree, however if you took the time to read the novel I asked for DPS Test Groups the whole week. More even! Since it was announced I've been trying to contact players when I'm online without success.

Actually, it's been 'required' for months now. But let's keep pretending you only had 1 week.

magnusthorek wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Additionally the guild offers people to contact in case an individual needs help learning a certain class.

Right... Because it maskes very much sense trying to teach a Magicka Templar with a Magicka DK video. THAT was the "mentoring" I had.

There were several different people for each class (mag or stam), all listed in the guild message for easy reference.

If you were serious you'd look outside the guild (if those you spoke to weren't helpful), there's plenty of really good builds out there by serious endgamers who know what they're talking about. If you took the time to research it yourself you'd be able to find decent builds you could use to build upon yourself.

magnusthorek wrote: »

Lavum wrote: »

Can't DPS? learn to Tank/Heal. Can't DPS, get better.

If you took time to read some comments below the original topic you can see that I mentioned that during the witches Festival I created a tank character as a "backup" plan in case my latency issues screwed me the end.

The answer I received from the "administration" through whispers is pretty much that this doesn't matter. I HAD to pull 35~40k DPS. what if I decided to not playing DPS anymore? What if I wanted to be full time tank? Nope, no way...

By the way, Witches Festival...October...confirms you were aware of it months ago. Think you shot your 'ONE WEEK TO PASS A PARSE' outta the water.

magnusthorek wrote: »

reesenorman wrote: »

Btw Soulshine and Soul Assault on a magplar is not good.

Yes it is, it hits 15~20k per second.

Of course, it's not the only one one I use. For heavy and intense AoE (or HM Trials), I prefer Shooting Star or Elemental Rage.

By the way, you and me played together very little times so, please, use your own arguments instead of what Guild is telling you to say

Oh dear.

magnusthorek wrote: »

I won't lie I know all sets in game. this is a game and it's supposed to be fun but if you think Soulshine and Soul Assault is bad and that there are other alternatives, name them, defend your argument, because I'm searched a lot and didn't find *much* (let's emphasize this) information about Magicka Templar in one Tamriel.

More even! Give publicly the advice or the "mentoring" it should be given while in the guild, instead of giving me a a worthless Magicka DK video.

Ever heard of taking initiative and searching for builds yourself? Forget the MagDK vid (if that's infact what they gave you), did you see if the uploader had a MagTemp vid? Did you look for MagTemp build videos yourself? They're out there, some by really really good players.

magnusthorek wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand the OP's point of view.

It's all a matter of companionship.

if you have a "core" group in which only the best players in guild can enter and you run raid trials to pursue more hard to get achievements, like Drom'athra Destroyer or maybe the Spotless Triumph, fine, you MUST have only the strongest players, healers and tanks in the group.

But considering most of trial runs used to happen at night times, sometimes were formed in secret (that one pissed me off a lot) or even formed by players of different guilds that happened to share the same guild with you -AND- in a trial you usually can do a decent job (as reminder, lowest I've got was 32k in veteran HRC HM), why a situational DPS Test against a dungeon boss that contributes NOTHING to anything a "raider" would do, is so important to the point of have one less good, although not excellent I admit, player available when the "top dogs" are away?

I'm starting to get a sense of entitlement, it's like you expected to be invited everytime there was a trial raid forming. Regardless of your dps, you wanted in. People are allowed to take who they want, if they have friends/people they run with regularly and know it'll be a smooth run then I don't see the harm.

Again, forming in 'secret', what the *** man. People are ALLOWED to whisper each other.

magnusthorek wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- Either they decided to "enforce" the "DPS policy" and since you failed, you were asked to leave ;

I didn't even have the chance to fail as didn't even present my results, but i've got your meaning

Actually, you had failed as you hadn't progressed in months. If you're referring to the last day, then I can't help you. You had months to do this (as you were aware given your witches festival comment) NOT one week.

**Wow, this turned into a novel of its own. I'm sorry, but it had to be said.**

magnusthorek wrote: »

I'm truly relieved having left, even though I'm still thankful for my vMoL run.

It's hard to answer every single piece of quote commented but I can assure you:

- I'm not lying. One thing I am both in game and RL is honest and trustworthy. I don't need to lie;
- Some of you maybe didn't read the whole text and still focused on me not achieving the goal of the DPS "test", even though under 30k was against THAT boss in particular. This is where SITUATIONAL gets place as I'm usually above 35k;
- About me being a tank was a decision I took to 1) help guild with a not so common role 2) preventive, in case something unexpected happens and even though being able to play a diferent role that intention eas bared becayse I prefer to DPS;
- Lag IS a major factor and DO prevents properly animation cancelling which is directly tied with better results. Not a major factor of course, but certainly present.
- Me trying to find a group tje whom week was an example. Since the announcement I've been trying without success.
- And the most important the "behind the scenes" mention... I think I still have the message on Discord about the "new" value, although I don't have the in-game mail with the 30k originally announced. This is the only reason I didn't post it;

thedude33 wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

OP, while people can certainly be a bit more rude on the net than they would be in person (I'll let others try to figure out why), this is not entirely the fault of the players. This is not a problem caused by players, the main root of the problem rests with developers and design of the game in the 1st place. Players react to the design/development and this is what you end up with. In ZOS' defense tho, it's not only them that have made and re-made this mistake, most of them do it. ZOS is just following suit.....

.

True, but a bit misleading. I have played these type of games since Everquest and it's the same thing every single time.

Say there are 8 classes A thru H. After a few months of trial and error the community figures out that A,B,C and D are the best classes and combo to get things done the quickest ( Min/Maxers)

Then the developer makes some adjustments. Tones some classes down, boosts other classes. The min/maxers decide that now the best 4 classes are A,D, F and H. Rest need to apply.

That's the paradox for min/maxers. There will always be the best class/combo. Even if they are only 3% better than the rest. That is the whole point of min/maxers.

There is nothing a game developer can do about that.

magnusthorek wrote: »

TL;DR

Elitism is a cancerous evil and caused my removal of an endgame Guild. Now move a long

I've been finally kicked of the end-game guild I was member for almost one year because because of technical details: I didn't manage to get a score against a dungeon boss that helps nothing against the real deal (trial bosses).

The "administration" always announced that Magicka players should achieve at least 30k as DPS while Stamina, 38k. When they first "threatened" purging the guild towards their elitism numbers I was really bad, barely reaching 18k.

Then I improved A LOT getting a DPS mark floating from 32k and up to 41k (once) against trial bosses on veteran difficult (32k was an HM run with a training group). Heck... even the first and only time I did vMoL I've got 35k, even not knowing the slightly different mechanics, learning them just-in-time.

With those results I was happy!

But then came the unnecessary test against an unreasonable and very situational dungeon boss and, although those marks were publicly announced, through mass mails, secretly, behind the scenes, the real goal was 35k for Magicka players. And this unbuffed!

I was reluctant on doing a DPS test under such circumstances. It didn't make sense! I've sent several DPS parses of important bosses (Warrior, Mage, in between mini-bosses...) and all of them were rejected because "they had adds numbers" even though there were no influence of them on data (only boss name in the reports). But I did my part. i gave up and did the "test" and, when I finally got a DPS Test group after spent THE WHOLE WEEK asking (since we had a deadline tomorrow, Sunday), I didn't manage to get the numbers.

I could blame the group that came with me during the "test" but they're nice fellows and don't deserve that. Did they do a good job on buffs? Can't say, but my latency, although it shows a moderately low number everyday, is a liar and was the real villain to blame. Every action takes like 3 seconds to happen, today was even worse and not only with me. I 'learned to lag" in the course of months of course but, for example, I can't be part of this cancerous community that cancel animations without suffer a double bar swap.

Now the [Snip] in the fan part!

1) Earlier today the "administration" whispered me "intimidating" I had until tomorrow to present my results.

This is an international game and people live under different timezones, so much that my Aussie friends were celebrating new year before me. With this in mind, for example, to me, Sunday is tomorrow and I've been kicked 45 minutes ago, which still Saturday.

Theoretically I could change gears and try again tomorrow, but I didn't have the chance.

2) Because of my timezone and the impossibility of playing at night (for most of you) because the server gets too crowded (I've tested it once) I often miss A LOT of opportunities. The only time I managed to go vMoL I had to wake up VERY early to get the "end of dawn" of the guild.

3) During afternoon (here) which is when I usually play, I literally have to beg for pledges or trials for weekly and people don't even answer. I understand if people don't want to do or can't in that moment but why the silence?

4) A lot of players in this guild hated me. Even people that used to be friendly to me got so cocky because were considered member of a "core" group started to treat me bad. Some proofs:

- A couple weeks ago we were doing vHRC for weekly I think. I was in a group and when we finished the crown said something like "if you want to go again drop group, change toons and X up in guild". I did and never got the invitation back for a group I WAS ALREADY IN. they quickly filled the DPS role with someone else and didn't have even the decency to explain.

Another case, more recent. -

- Today morning a lot of good players online and my first guild message in chat was for a vMoL group for the weekly. everyone silent (again) but then 30 minutes later (I was more or less monitoring the Guild roster) they formed a group in secret (probably through whispers or TS) and did the weekly.

I don't know you but to me, in my country, this characterizes as being personal, but they were too coward to speak to me directly.

5) A long time ago a player joined a vAA group formed by someone else AFTER me. He took the lead and kicked me without reason. I asked why and he threw on my face I was a bad player because he happened to be in the same run I was when learning vAA, that back when the trials was rescaled in which I made mistakes (who don't while learning?). He had balls to do that, I admit, but I argued with him, explained I was learning and got back in the group. and to shut him up I did the whole place flawlessly.

Isn't this personal? I tried to contact the "public relations" of guild, giving my feedback and to make sure it would be read I asked a favor in the message. This favor never happened...

Anyway...

THE GUILD ASKED TOO MUCH AND PROVIDED TOO LITTLE

If you run or is member of a guild that does veteran trials at different periods of time (something around -5 hours from the time of this topic) and couldn't take the newest homeless DPS of Tamriel without such rudeness and cockiness, please let me know.

[Edited for bypassing the filter]

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We work for hours each day with drawings, group compositions, tactics, plans, applicants etc. Its basically a full time job for us.

No offense meant, but this must be sad life ...but to each their own I guess.

People have their passions/hobbies, I for one am a team type of person rather than a solo worker. I love playing with my friends for competition.

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We work for hours each day with drawings, group compositions, tactics, plans, applicants etc. Its basically a full time job for us.

No offense meant, but this must be sad life ...but to each their own I guess.

People have their passions/hobbies, I for one am a team type of person rather than a solo worker. I love playing with my friends for competition.

I do like playing with my guildies as well. Thats the reason Im playing MMO. But spend hours by planning tactics for content that can be made by pug and have it as full time job id just sad to me.

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We work for hours each day with drawings, group compositions, tactics, plans, applicants etc. Its basically a full time job for us.

No offense meant, but this must be sad life ...but to each their own I guess.

People have their passions/hobbies, I for one am a team type of person rather than a solo worker. I love playing with my friends for competition.

I do like playing with my guildies as well. Thats the reason Im playing MMO. But spend hours by planning tactics for content that can be made by pug and have it as full time job id just sad to me.

Hows it sad? There is nothing better than putting effort into anything at all and seeing results. It's a team effort. A lot of the qualities you see in game reflect people's personalities outside of game too.

Woeler wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

It is their guild to run how they see fit. Your rage is at a cancerous level.

This guy is right.

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We work for hours each day with drawings, group compositions, tactics, plans, applicants etc. Its basically a full time job for us.

No offense meant, but this must be sad life ...but to each their own I guess.

People have their passions/hobbies, I for one am a team type of person rather than a solo worker. I love playing with my friends for competition.

I do like playing with my guildies as well. Thats the reason Im playing MMO. But spend hours by planning tactics for content that can be made by pug and have it as full time job id just sad to me.

kmate pug vmol pls, or vmol hardmode. Have you done it? No? oh... almost thought you had a point, turned out it was just a dumb judgemental remark by a nobody. To each their own I guess.

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We work for hours each day with drawings, group compositions, tactics, plans, applicants etc. Its basically a full time job for us.

No offense meant, but this must be sad life ...but to each their own I guess.

People have their passions/hobbies, I for one am a team type of person rather than a solo worker. I love playing with my friends for competition.

I do like playing with my guildies as well. Thats the reason Im playing MMO. But spend hours by planning tactics for content that can be made by pug and have it as full time job id just sad to me.

Hows it sad? There is nothing better than putting effort into anything at all and seeing results. It's a team effort. A lot of the qualities you see in game reflect people's personalities outside of game too.

Well I play this game for fun in the evening hours and I can´t imagine, that I could spent hours and hours by planning, drawing schemes etc. and have it as a full time job. Because I have so many things to do in real world. If somebody has time for this, that means, that he has nothing better to do and his life is revolving around computer game and that just seems sad to me. Although I can understand, that somebody needs sense of accomplishment at least in the virtual world...sort of. But again, no offense meant - to each their own.

Simple pleasures is what keeps the world running

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

It is their guild to run how they see fit. Your rage is at a cancerous level.

This guy is right.

darkllord wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

darkllord wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We work for hours each day with drawings, group compositions, tactics, plans, applicants etc. Its basically a full time job for us.

No offense meant, but this must be sad life ...but to each their own I guess.

People have their passions/hobbies, I for one am a team type of person rather than a solo worker. I love playing with my friends for competition.

I do like playing with my guildies as well. Thats the reason Im playing MMO. But spend hours by planning tactics for content that can be made by pug and have it as full time job id just sad to me.

kmate pug vmol pls, or vmol hardmode. Have you done it? No? oh... almost thought you had a point, turned out it was just a dumb judgemental remark by a nobody. To each their own I guess.

And are you sure about this or it is just your guess? Believe it or not, but I don´t need to prove anything to a random guy on the internet. And in the computer game above that. I just said my opinion, thats all. And yes, you are right, I´m as nobody as the next guy - you, here on the internet.

| World First Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj Hard Mode clear |
People still use their strategies when going for hardmode clears. I think he's sure about it

Ok, I was not speaking of HM.