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ZOS Fails to deliver promises.

ComboBreaker88
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91x6PSl.png

Isn't it about time ZO$ shows a little follow through on this promise? Managing a guild is a complete nightmare on the console version. Help us make your game worth playing. Give us Guild utilities.

I've started a thread awhile back about this. But there are dozens of fantastic threads about this subject.

Here is mine:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263520/feedback-guild-management-utilities#latest
  • Auricle
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    While I definitely agree that guild management falls short of ideal, I think titling your thread like that isn't really going to help matters. Constructive feedback is one thing the devs might pay attention to, but calling out ZoS as a failure isn't going to do anything but get this thread locked. If you already had a thread going in relation to this topic, why create a new one just to link back to it..?
  • ComboBreaker88
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    For some reason the add image section wouldn't allow me to put the picture in.. but over a year ago they promised in the "Year Ahead 2016" to give us a looking for guild system and guild management utilities. Since this announcement they have not even mentioned they are working on it. It has completely vanished behind the gamble boxes.
    Edited by ComboBreaker88 on January 15, 2017 7:14PM
  • psytic
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    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?
  • ComboBreaker88
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.
  • MikeTheeElder
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    Amen! Guild management and services is one of the most overlooked and underdeveloped aspects to the game. The only significant changes they've made are to roster viewing and the first of those was a nightmare. Sadly, it seems their attention to the game community, outside of patches and updates, seems to have taken a nose since around October.
  • JasonSilverSpring
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    It says "work on" not deliver. Granted they probably intended at that time to implement. I suspect One Tamriel pushed other plans back.

    Maybe it will come in 2017. But calling them out as a failure accomplishes little.
  • FleetwoodSmack
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Things that were mentioned in Year Aheads;

    PvP Justice
    Spellcrafting

    Those things are not promises. They are possibilities and they're subjected to change depending on either if it fits the vision, if it fits the time tables, or how bad the game currently is. You want guild tools? I want a stable game.
    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!
  • Stratforge
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Things that were mentioned in Year Aheads;

    PvP Justice
    Spellcrafting

    Those things are not promises. They are possibilities and they're subjected to change depending on either if it fits the vision, if it fits the time tables, or how bad the game currently is. You want guild tools? I want a stable game.

    Its a blessing that both of those ideas got scrapped. Guild tools are easy to implement and beneficial. Making a complicated game "stable" is obviously much more difficult. If ZoS is working on the big fixes like Cyrodiil lag and crashes, there's no reason they couldn't do some smaller "quality of life" fixes in the meantime, like Combo suggests.
    Edited by Stratforge on January 15, 2017 8:35PM
    PC NA
    Xbox One NA (retired)
  • Messy1
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    Yes, guild management is in need of an upgrade.
  • ComboBreaker88
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Things that were mentioned in Year Aheads;

    PvP Justice
    Spellcrafting

    Those things are not promises. They are possibilities and they're subjected to change depending on either if it fits the vision, if it fits the time tables, or how bad the game currently is. You want guild tools? I want a stable game.

    Yes they are. And both of those items were talked about at length and then thrown in the garbage where they belong. Guild management isn't even being talked about. And it would be huge for the game.
  • LegacyDM
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Things that were mentioned in Year Aheads;

    PvP Justice
    Spellcrafting

    Those things are not promises. They are possibilities and they're subjected to change depending on either if it fits the vision, if it fits the time tables, or how bad the game currently is. You want guild tools? I want a stable game.

    When I buy a product I expect it to work. Server Performance is and has been abysmal. This game was advertised for massive pvp using a technology that would ensure such capability. It's an utter fail and a failure of the seller to deliver on expected promise between the buyer and seller per transaction and paid exchange for said services. It's unfortunate because pvp is really fun in this game but the server performance killed it. We've all been patient but 2 years is far too long. What a joke.
    Legacy of Kain
    Vicious Carnage
    ¥ampire Lord of the South
  • CapnPhoton
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    Auricle wrote: »
    While I definitely agree that guild management falls short of ideal, I think titling your thread like that isn't really going to help matters. Constructive feedback is one thing the devs might pay attention to, but calling out ZoS as a failure isn't going to do anything but get this thread locked. If you already had a thread going in relation to this topic, why create a new one just to link back to it..?

    Some people don't get enough attention, and they get more by instead of being constructive, say that people have outright failed, are losers, worthless, etc. Its best to just /ignore.
    Xbox One NA Aldmeri Dominion
  • SanderBuraas
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    @ComboBreaker88

    You must copy the image address in order for it to work with bbcode. Use this: "http://i.imgur.com/91x6PSl.png".
  • ComboBreaker88
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    Smepic wrote: »
    @ComboBreaker88

    You must copy the image address in order for it to work with bbcode. Use this: "http://i.imgur.com/91x6PSl.png".

    Thanks!
    Edited by ComboBreaker88 on January 16, 2017 12:28AM
  • ComboBreaker88
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    Exactly the game servers crash constantly. We are prevented from even playin the game half the time. And when we do actually get into it and aren't stuck in a "Unusually Long Load Time" the game doesn't support the communities we the players strive to build. It's been 3 years. Most guilds have simply moved to other games because this one refuses to support its own communities development.
  • Tandor
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Rubbish, it's a statement of their current plans and expectations, but it isn't set in stone. Even when something gets put on the PTS it's subject to change or withdrawal. Developers are entitled to change their minds over things or re-arrange their priorities without players accusing them of lying or breaking promises the whole time.
    Edited by Tandor on January 16, 2017 5:22PM
  • ComboBreaker88
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    Tandor wrote: »
    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Rubbish, it's a statement of their current plans and expectations.

    When a company announces something that it plans to do, it is a promise to the community that it impacts.
  • ComboBreaker88
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    Tandor wrote: »
    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Rubbish, it's a statement of their current plans and expectations, but it isn't set in stone. Even when something gets put on the PTS it's subject to change or withdrawal. Developers are entitled to change their minds over things or re-arrange their priorities without players accusing them of lying or breaking promises the whole time.

    This is a company. And as such it's every word to its paying customers is a promise. If it says it's going to do something then doesn't do it, they have failed to keep their integrity as a company. This isn't a person who simply gave their word and then broke it. This is an entity whose sole value relies on its ability to deliver said promises.
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    Tandor wrote: »
    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Rubbish, it's a statement of their current plans and expectations, but it isn't set in stone. Even when something gets put on the PTS it's subject to change or withdrawal. Developers are entitled to change their minds over things or re-arrange their priorities without players accusing them of lying or breaking promises the whole time.

    This is a company. And as such it's every word to its paying customers is a promise. If it says it's going to do something then doesn't do it, they have failed to keep their integrity as a company. This isn't a person who simply gave their word and then broke it. This is an entity whose sole value relies on its ability to deliver said promises.

    I dont mind when plans change in an mmo. And i dont really see it as a promise. But at the same time it is very bad form to put something out as here is what we are working on. And then Never mention it again. It is poor communication and makes you look bad.
  • ComboBreaker88
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    My only guess at this point is that ZOS reputation is so meaningless to them that they dont care anymore. If they don't start fixing and addressing the issues soon the won't have a reputation to fix.
  • Sinthrax
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    The game is fun which is why I am still here. The guild tools are a catastrophe still. However, what have they added in the last year isn't. They need to stop all content for 6 months and do nothing but fix the broken crap. I understand balance but why are they still changing NUMEROUS skills every patch. A few here and there I could understand but they totally change the game every 6 months. Just stop already...fix them right the first time and you won't have this problem. Stop with the half axx fixes.
  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    Sinthrax wrote: »
    The game is fun which is why I am still here. The guild tools are a catastrophe still. However, what have they added in the last year isn't. They need to stop all content for 6 months and do nothing but fix the broken crap. I understand balance but why are they still changing NUMEROUS skills every patch. A few here and there I could understand but they totally change the game every 6 months. Just stop already...fix them right the first time and you won't have this problem. Stop with the half axx fixes.

    The issue isn't "half a** fixes".

    This issue is "over fixing".

    Stop lurching from one extreme to the other. Tweaks should be relatively small and filtered in incrementally, give those tweaks time to bed in and then collect more data to add to the whole data-set. Rinse repeat.

    But as long as no more than 5-10% of total skills (variables) are effected in any iteration, and the changes are all within the +/-5% range then you can make meaningful progress across each iteration.

    Huge changes that see 10%+ of variables changed by +/-20% or more mean that all existing data is essentially useless, and so a whole raft of new data needs to be collected and analysed. Which means TIME. Time when players are left playing a game that has just radically changed but is nowhere nearer to getting fixed; and that means increased player frustration.

    Attempts by MMORPG companies to "fix everything for everyone, every patch" invariably fail.

    All The Best
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • ComboBreaker88
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    Sinthrax wrote: »
    The game is fun which is why I am still here. The guild tools are a catastrophe still. However, what have they added in the last year isn't. They need to stop all content for 6 months and do nothing but fix the broken crap. I understand balance but why are they still changing NUMEROUS skills every patch. A few here and there I could understand but they totally change the game every 6 months. Just stop already...fix them right the first time and you won't have this problem. Stop with the half axx fixes.

    The issue isn't "half a** fixes".

    This issue is "over fixing".

    Stop lurching from one extreme to the other. Tweaks should be relatively small and filtered in incrementally, give those tweaks time to bed in and then collect more data to add to the whole data-set. Rinse repeat.

    But as long as no more than 5-10% of total skills (variables) are effected in any iteration, and the changes are all within the +/-5% range then you can make meaningful progress across each iteration.

    Huge changes that see 10%+ of variables changed by +/-20% or more mean that all existing data is essentially useless, and so a whole raft of new data needs to be collected and analysed. Which means TIME. Time when players are left playing a game that has just radically changed but is nowhere nearer to getting fixed; and that means increased player frustration.

    Attempts by MMORPG companies to "fix everything for everyone, every patch" invariably fail.

    All The Best

    Game imbalances aside. What would be the harm in implementing some of the following:

    List of needed changes for guild management:

    - Longer MOTD x4
    ● In a 500 member guild that runs raffles, PvE and PvP events along with anything else that might happen to be going on the MOTD is way to short. The editor could use a little love too.

    - Ability to buy/sell ranks (with timers and cool downs)
    ● This one is probably gonna get some hate. Let me just sat I love this idea. Being on console sort of sucks because ZOS let pc players come over with such huge amounts of end game items, pc transfers literally have billions on console. So they can pretty much gtab whatever trader they want. To compensate for that traders in some areas go for as much as 5 million a week. Yes 5 million a week.

    - Kick specific guildies from chat (timed/ cooldowns)
    ● Imagine a Guildie has gone afk but forgot to mute their mic. Nothing kills a chat faster than that.

    - See total gold/items donated in member notes.
    ● This is just useful.

    -Ability to see items specific members have listed in guild store in member notes.
    ● For trade guilds this would be amazing. You can not only see how many items a guildie has listed but what they are.

    - Black list players.
    ● Some players just need to go.

    - Show dungeon roles of guildies.
    ● Looking for a tank? Found one.

    -Show characters list of guildies.
    ● This one isn't exactly useful. But it is pretty neat.

    -Show join date.
    ● Ever want to know who is new and who isn't when you join a guild?

    -More ranks.
    ● Seriously we just need more.

    - More tabbard customizations.
    ● With a game that has as much history as ESO you would think there would be more art available for this.

    - Last online date.
    ● Why isn't this already a thing?

    - About us x4 larger
    ● Same reasons as the MOTD.

    - Change chat channel names.
    ● Probably the first thing most people say when I ask them what they would like to see changed.

    - Guild timeline.
    ● It's always nice to see a good timeline.

    - Guild events/calendar.
    ● The ability for players and officers to Schedule events and plan them out is the bread and butter of a good guild. Lets make that a bit easier yeah?

    - Guild mail.
    ● I know, MOTD does this. But what if you need to send out a message to to a specific ranks of people?

    - Raffel chests.
    ● So many guilds run raffles. Would it be nice if the game help support that.

    - Member spotlights.
    ● Ever want to do a shout out to a guildie that is always super helpful?

    - Guildies wearing same tabbard glow green.
    ● This would help loyal guildies identify one another from a distance. Obviously it would have to be on a toggle.

    - Ability to set price range of specific items for listing in entire guild store.
    ● This one is going to get some real hate. Lol. But honestly if it's abused leave that guild. The more control a GM has over a guild the better they can manage it.

    - Add average listed prices for items in that particular guild store when listing.
    ● I don't understand why this isn't a thing already.

    - Ability to removed specific listed items of other members from guild store without kicking them.
    ● Ever see a guildie list something way below market price yet have other items of the same thinges listed at current price?

    - Guild text chat rooms.
    ● Some player simply can't talk. I have a few in my guild, this would fix that issue.

    - Ability to edit own member notes. /Can edit notes of specific ranks.
    ● The ability to edit notes is cool but is just to broad a sword to let most people use.

    - Fix the guild roster so it doesn't scroll when a player gets on or offline while viewing it.
    ● Yeah that " fix" for spamming the message rate cause more issues than it solved.

    - Make the guild history scroll like the guild roster to prevent getting kicked while checking it. Also make it and guild roster refresh only when you exit it's menu.
    ● Getting kicked for nothing sucks. But having to tap a button 50000 times sucks more.

    - Ability to allow members (other than guild master) edit heraldry (tabbard)
    ● Have the GM as the only person to do this is just ridiculous. Why not let a whole rank be able to do it?

    - Allow Guild Master to adjust the tax percent of sales.
    ● YES, I know this could be abused. Leave that guild if they do. But this could be done instead of having membership dues.

    - Allow guildies to be in guild chat and group chat at the same time. (Allow any 2 chats channels at once.)
    ● Why isn't this a thing already?

    - Seperate gold deposits and items deposits in guild bank history.
    ● Guild history is great. You know what else is great the ability to sort through it all.

    - Suspend currently listed items if guild member loses Guild Trader access. Items are not viewable by the public until Trader access has been restored.
    ● Currently if a guildie looses selling privileges all their stuff stays up for sale. This allows people to get acess then not pay mbership fees again until they want to reliat. It's abusing the way the current system works.

    - See group that guildies are in a group and request to join that group.
    ● Sometimes you try and group with someone and they are already in a group.. why doesn't the general send that nm person a notification to allow them to join that current group?
  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    @ComboBreaker88

    I'd agree with most of those IF guilds in ESO functioned as Guilds should.

    But they don't.

    Guild Membership is account wide - ruining THE biggest selling point of the game Faction V Faction V Faction. This was a stupid idea from the start and remains so now.

    You can be in 5 Guilds - making Guild Membership a function of convenience (usually convenience of access to a Trader) rather than a product of camaraderie. Guilds built on Friendship last, they grow, they are functional. Guilds built on convenience only last until something more convenient comas along, so they tend not to last as long, and because of that many are dysfunctional.

    Most of the rest of issues with Guild Management are a by-product of ZOS opting for a Trade System that really hasn't ever been fully fit for purpose, and is even worse now than it was at launch - because the issues that some of us warned about in those initial 4 months or so are now coming to fruition - excessively high costs of Kiosks in good positions, Kiosks in bad positions being effectively useless.

    Any Trade System that makes it harder, not easier, for both Buyers and Sellers is simply not fit for purpose. And ALL of the many faults with the Trade System as it stands can be fixed relatively easily WITHOUT the need for an Auction House.

    All The Best
    Edited by Gandrhulf_Harbard on January 16, 2017 11:54PM
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • ComboBreaker88
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    They should cut the number of guilds down to 1 and allow eso plus members 2 extra guild slots. Lol.
  • Tandor
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    They should cut the number of guilds down to 1 and allow eso plus members 2 extra guild slots. Lol.

    Or just give ESO+ members access to Trader Kiosks without the requirement to be in a guild. That'll remove most of the trading guilds overnight and provide a working trading system - all, as @Gandrhulf_Harbard suggests, without the need for an auction house :smiley: !

    That wasn't a serious suggestion, but perhaps it should have been...
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    The thing that this game needs is a search option when buying something in guild store.... :*
  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    @Tommy_The_Gun

    I agree entirely. Even if we accept the idea that we need Kiosks as they were the trade system in technologically and socially contemporary real-world economies there are still issues.

    Because even in those economies customers went in and asked for exactly what they wanted, and NOT some large class of products to which their desired product may have belonged.

    All The Best
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • Majic
    Majic
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    A Lack Of Promise

    Here's the article the graphic in the OP was crafted from: ESO – The Year Ahead

    It promises nothing.

    Here's the quote in context:
    Here are some features we are working on as part of this social focus:
    • Looking for Group version 2.0, which will go live with the Thieves Guild update. This will fix some longstanding problems with our LFG system and allow players to create groups faster and more efficiently.
    • All future DLC will continue to use player level scaling to ensure that players of all levels can play in the same zone together, as we do with Imperial City and Orsinium.
    • Enable text chat on consoles later this year to help players – if they wish – to communicate zone-wide with other players, have easier access to emotes, and be able to chat with others using text instead of voice. This will be optional, and we will continue to fully support voice chat on console as the primary means of communication.
    • Work on a Looking for Guild system, as well as updates and fixes to make it easier manage player guilds.
    We are very excited about this, as it will continue to move ESO forward, by focusing on player-to-player interaction, which after all is the heart and soul of games like ESO. Stay tuned for more details as we move farther into 2016.

    Working on something is not the same as delivering it, nor promising to.

    If you're going to attempt to hold ZOS to something, at least try to be honest about it.
    Epopt Of The Everspinning Logo, Church Of The Eternal Loading Screen
    And verily, verily, spaketh the Lord: "Error <<1>>"
  • FleetwoodSmack
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    psytic wrote: »
    They actually used the words " we promise" ? or just stated its something they wanted to do and then much bigger priorities came up?

    The year ahead by its very nature is a promise to the community.

    Things that were mentioned in Year Aheads;

    PvP Justice
    Spellcrafting

    Those things are not promises. They are possibilities and they're subjected to change depending on either if it fits the vision, if it fits the time tables, or how bad the game currently is. You want guild tools? I want a stable game.

    Yes they are. And both of those items were talked about at length and then thrown in the garbage where they belong. Guild management isn't even being talked about. And it would be huge for the game.

    And your point being? My point is, and I'll quote it for you to read it again;
    They are possibilities and they're subjected to change depending on either if it fits the vision, if it fits the time tables, or how bad the game currently is.

    Don't like it? There's the door. Things are subjected to change by their ToS and EULA.
    Edited by FleetwoodSmack on January 17, 2017 10:58AM
    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!
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