Vampire needs a serious buff or a total rework!

Jeremy · January 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

So... taking 25% more damage from a damage source that is used by 80% of all people in PvP and having reduce HP regeneration is no big downside?

There are ways to mitigate against that damage: go visit the Priest Of Arkay.

Both Vamp and WW get off too easy at the moment.

Having either affliction should bring REAL penalties, that impact all the time.

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

The number of WW and Vamps needs to be cut by at least 50% and the only way to do that is to have penalties for being one.

Don't want to take extra Fire Damage?
Simples - don't be a Vampire.

Problem solved.

All The Best

Where I can't speak to wear wolves - the penalties for being a Vampire are significant enough that it convinced me to put 100 champion points into elemental defender. I would argue that any penalty that cost 100 champion points is already plenty penalizing enough.

You have to give people a reason to become a vampire. If the penalty always outweighed the benefits then why would anyone want to become one? It would end up just being a waste.

Hawkeye0099 · January 2017

I think the coolest thing they can do to vampire is only at night turn there magic/stam reg go up to 15% and there health reg go back to normal. It would be cool to be excited for night as a vampire.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

[SNIp] ww are crap not seen outside of pvp and vampires are extremely common.

[Edited for baiting]

starkerealm · January 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

Ecologically speaking, Vampires aren't a predator at all, they're a parasite. Even in ESO.

zuto40 · January 2017

didnt read your post but i assume its a L2P issue

Gandrhulf_Harbard · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

Ecologically speaking, Vampires aren't a predator at all, they're a parasite. Even in ESO.

Even Parasites have a maximum "carry capacity" within their host environment; above which they risk depopulating that food source on which they depend.

All The Best

EldritchPenguin · January 2017

Hawkeye0099 wrote: »

I think the coolest thing they can do to vampire is only at night turn there magic/stam reg go up to 15% and there health reg go back to normal. It would be cool to be excited for night as a vampire.

That could be nice for a bit of flavor, but IIRC, days are more than twice as long as nights in ESO, so that change would be largely inconsequential.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

Ecologically speaking, Vampires aren't a predator at all, they're a parasite. Even in ESO.

Even Parasites have a maximum "carry capacity" within their host environment; above which they risk depopulating that food source on which they depend.

All The Best

But isn't it pretty clear in the lore and in-game that vampires don't actually need to feed to survive?

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

We need blade of woe kill cam for feeding . Mist form to not get snared and baleful mist buffed .

Ethromelb14_ESO · January 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

I didn't even read your post since theres very little downside to being a vampire. I'm sure everyone else in cyrodil backs me up on that one

Very few downsides, doesn't mean that there's a lot of upsides either. The truth is, playing as vampire in ESO is quite generic.

mann9753b16_ESO · January 2017

Ok, serious question:

Does being a Vampire in ESO really makes you feel like you are playing a Vampire?

Playing a Werewolf feels exactly like it should be, but do you ever feel like "Yeah, I am a badass Vampire"? Because I never did.

Kode · January 2017

Well, I think obviously the greatest benefit of being a vampire has clearly not even been stated... live, or not, forever.
I don't see any 300 year old werewolves...

In all honesty though, I was accidentally afflicted shortly after the game went live, I decided to become a vampire by doing the quest and have been since then. Vampire has gone through some nerfs and buffs, the latest iteration has me most content because I pretty much run around in stage 1.

The reason I like it is because I can basically turn it off and not suffer the fire damage consequences. It has a few perks for going to stage 4, I don't go to stage 4, so that should say something. Fire damage is OP, there is so much of it out there and honestly I don't feel like stage 4 has enough of a benefit to suffer all that additional damage, it almost always gimps you.

old_mufasa · January 2017

ElliottXO wrote: »

80% of Tamriel population is either vamp or wolf. Let's talk about buffing humans OK?

That's for the passive 10% mana/stam regen... at stage 2 meaning your taking more fire damage and losing health regen no matter what.

But you also get 15% stamina regen for being a ww for just slotting the ultimate with zero negatives.

As far as skills.. the vampire line is pretty weak compared to when you are an active WW..

What would be a cool idea I think is that.. you remove the bat swarm as a the ultimate and add vampire lord morph as the ultimate with a lesser bat swarm as a skill with in vampire lord ultimate.. while in vampire lord ultimate you would have drain essence that would allow you keep the new form like a ww does.. then with some new skills like a toned down dragon leap style ability as a gap or escape, bat swarm as a heal (just like ww have self healing) the vampire lord form also over drives you basic vampire skills such as mist form and drain... and maybe a mass fear skill.. as well that's very vampire ish.. activating vamp lord will instantly set you and stage 4.

You would still keep there 2 active skills during non ultimate as vampires always have there negatives active.

That would make it I think really fun to use.

Paraflex · January 2017

Vamps fine is used to be worse before they updated it and fighters guild

leepalmer95 · January 2017

old_mufasa wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

80% of Tamriel population is either vamp or wolf. Let's talk about buffing humans OK?

That's for the passive 10% mana/stam regen... at stage 2 meaning your taking more fire damage and losing health regen no matter what.

But you also get 15% stamina regen for being a ww for just slotting the ultimate with zero negatives.

As far as skills.. the vampire line is pretty weak compared to when you are an active WW..

What would be a cool idea I think is that.. you remove the bat swarm as a the ultimate and add vampire lord morph as the ultimate with a lesser bat swarm as a skill with in vampire lord ultimate.. while in vampire lord ultimate you would have drain essence that would allow you keep the new form like a ww does.. then with some new skills like a toned down dragon leap style ability as a gap or escape, bat swarm as a heal (just like ww have self healing) the vampire lord form also over drives you basic vampire skills such as mist form and drain... and maybe a mass fear skill.. as well that's very vampire ish.. activating vamp lord will instantly set you and stage 4.

You would still keep there 2 active skills during non ultimate as vampires always have there negatives active.

That would make it I think really fun to use.

Yeah the regen is good, also the sneak speed, the dmg reduction, bats, mistform?

You do give up something for 15% ww regen, an ult slot. It only applies to whatever bar it's on as well so you only have the regen on 1 bar.

The vamp stun is very good, heals (a must for healthplars), cc through dodge roll and gives 5ult a second useful for mag dk's.

Mist form is amazing, a must for mag dk's templars. Useful for other classes, very useful vs ult's.

Vamp is fine.

starkerealm · January 2017

old_mufasa wrote: »

That's for the passive 10% mana/stam regen... at stage 2 meaning your taking more fire damage and losing health regen no matter what.

Not that it matters, but if you've maxed out the skill line, you don't take a health regen penalty at stage 2.

old_mufasa wrote: »

But you also get 15% stamina regen for being a ww for just slotting the ultimate with zero negatives.

This used to be true. I mean, about two years ago, you got the Stamina regen just for showing up. Now you have to give up your ultimate, which means either you're going to actually use your transform, or you're giving up the ability to slot an ultimate you actually intend to use.

Browiseth · January 2017

I would like new abilities, but all things considered after the last vamp overhaul it's in a pretty good place

Berenhir · January 2017

Hahahhahaha packs of wolves in Cyrodiil? What game do you play? Must be before ESO 2.3?

I don't know when I fought the last werewolf. I don't think I have seen any remotely dangerous werewolf in trueflame for half a year.

old_mufasa · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

That's for the passive 10% mana/stam regen... at stage 2 meaning your taking more fire damage and losing health regen no matter what.

Not that it matters, but if you've maxed out the skill line, you don't take a health regen penalty at stage 2.

old_mufasa wrote: »

But you also get 15% stamina regen for being a ww for just slotting the ultimate with zero negatives.

This used to be true. I mean, about two years ago, you got the Stamina regen just for showing up. Now you have to give up your ultimate, which means either you're going to actually use your transform, or you're giving up the ability to slot an ultimate you actually intend to use.

oh please.. what a bunch of whiners... you don't give up a ultimate slot.. WW is the ultimate and you get a passive bonus for just slotting it vs other ultimate's.. as well as you have another bar with another ultimate... giving up a slot means you do not get anything in return.. you don't give up anything.. you get to use the WW form and you get a bonus passive for stam regen that other ultimate's don't give as well as the WW ultimate it self.. that can last longer then any ultimate in the game.. I have personally kept my WW from active for over an hour and a half farming no other ultimate has that type of up time.

You're logic is so stupid.. as vampires are also "giving up" there ultimate for bat swarm.... but they don't get any special passive for slotting it.

Also your passive reduction for health regen does not remove the debuff.. just lessons it at stage 2 your at 25% with the passive your at 22%... where the hell did you learn to vampire? WW also takes no negative effects for not using skill.. while vamps are locked into to it 24 hours a day even if they are not using it...

The only argument a WW user has is they have to invest more skill points get the best use out of WW.. but with my idea that wouldn't be the case any how.

starkerealm · January 2017

Berenhir wrote: »

Hahahhahaha packs of wolves in Cyrodiil? What game do you play? Must be before ESO 2.3?

I don't know when I fought the last werewolf. I don't think I have seen any remotely dangerous werewolf in trueflame for half a year.

Last time I saw a major woflpack in Cyrodiil was... 2015?

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

And in what universe do vampires heal SLOWER? hell, even in ESO other vampires heal faster, they make a point of telling us that. We should be getting faster regen not slower, it makes no sense and is lore breaking honestly

old_mufasa · January 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

And in what universe do vampires heal SLOWER? hell, even in ESO other vampires heal faster, they make a point of telling us that. We should be getting faster regen not slower, it makes no sense and is lore breaking honestly

True.. but in those other universe's and elder scroll games.. other vampires have a server allergic reaction to the sun...

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

old_mufasa wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

And in what universe do vampires heal SLOWER? hell, even in ESO other vampires heal faster, they make a point of telling us that. We should be getting faster regen not slower, it makes no sense and is lore breaking honestly

True.. but in those other universe's and elder scroll games.. other vampires have a server allergic reaction to the sun...

True, guess we cant blot out the sun in this game lol

Mojmir · January 2017

Vamp is fine,deal with the pros and cons.

AjiBuster499 · January 2017

I'm a Werewolf on my main, but that's because I go with the phrase "Stamina = WW, Magicka = Vamp" and my Main is Stam DK.

I'd honestly choose Vamp over anything else though any day of the week.

Emencie · January 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Having either affliction should bring REAL penalties, that impact all the time.

We've seen this back at launch, and the problem with this for WW is simple.

WW do not get the benefits of being a WW at all times. So giving them a penalty at all times becomes a situation where getting the WW form becomes a self nerf.

WW cannot use synergies, they cannot res, their blocking ability is severely hampered, their self healing is magica based and no where near as powerful as other builds. They are not the best tanks or dps. And the WW ultimate is flat out not the best dps ulty you can have.

So with that in mind, becoming a WW was a situation where you can now use a sub par ultimate that will take away a ton of your utility, damage, and perhaps survivability. And now you get a permanent debuff at all times. It was a dark time for WW.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, Vampire is just a weak thing.
Compare it to werewolfs, you can solo most PvE content easy as a WW, even big monsters, its usefull in PvP, you often see whole groups of Werewolfs decimating enemy forces with their strong attacks and overall tankiness, its overall a skillline you use all the time.

Now look at Vampire... ehm... I guess Mist form is ok if you got jumped and the fast sneaking can be good for PvP or PvE is you want to steal stuff, but other than that? The blood sucking spell is a medicore damage spell, which is also a channel over 3 seconds to do damage that instant cast spells do already, the stun is useless in PvP, and it even slows you down.
The Ultimate is kinda OK, but lets be honest, every class has Ultimate abilities that every sane person would choose over Bat-Swarm in every possible situation.

So in the end, what do you get from being a Vampire? An unreliable escape spell, faster sneaking and a bit of regeneration and a little damage reduction that only kicks in when you are in execute range anyway...

The Vampire Skillline needs to be reworked from 0.

Vampire and werewolf are PVP specs. Both get tools that are extremely advantagous for PVP. Vampire gets a single target stun and heal for duels, mist form for CC, it's ultimate that is now able to be used like a high damage lung likely to lead into other attacks.

Werewolf gets a self heal that boosts damage, multiple dots, a lunge and a CC.

These are PVP specs. The main problem, as is a general problem with this game, is these were created and clearly balanced -for- PVP, as this game shifted toward PVP since it's inception.

I'd be in favor of these being reworked and for like half the crap in the -game- to be reworked at this rate.

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

While we're here, can we get some cosmetic improvement so that we can see body marking through the vamp skin? Spend all that time (and crowns) on cosmetics and all are invisible

Riejael · January 2017

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Ok, serious question:

Does being a Vampire in ESO really makes you feel like you are playing a Vampire?

Playing a Werewolf feels exactly like it should be, but do you ever feel like "Yeah, I am a badass Vampire"? Because I never did.

I was going to say that Vampirism was fine. Mainly because you can simply feed and go on without penalty. However.. this quote here sort of hit the mark.

When I'm playing my WW character.. I usually use Rapid fire as an ultimate since I like to stay at range (I pull a bit of agro at times when tanks forget to taunt, so melee isn't terribly fun in PUGs). But every so often I'll let the werewolf rip and just tear a dungeon or delve to pieces.

I can't do that on my Vamp. On my Vamp I can kinda mitigate damage, do a from stealth stun, and well.. I can't really say it does more because it doesn't.

There's no downside from being a Werewolf. NONE. Extra poison damage only applies during transformation, and you get 10,000 physical/spell resist anyway so its entirely mitigated. The downside is you have to use an ultimate to see the benefits. Its a 20pt ultimate basically.

However when you fire it off and have the skills leveled and morphed. You're a goddamned monstrosity.

What do you get for putting 20pts in Vamp? Who even puts 20pts into it? There's a bunch of skills that you might use. With WW you at least get a THIRD bar to put the 5 skills on. With Vamp you have to design your build around it. WW's don't have to do that. You switch ONE ultimate, and you're golden.

I think Vamp should be changed. Not buffed but changed so its supplements builds like WW does. We can still have the phases that run all the time. But make feeding and switching phases something you do DURING combat, not between.

Its weird because Vamps have to design a build around being Vamps, but don't really do vamp stuff. WW's get transformation that doesn't require a build change, but when you use it, you're full on WW. Vamp just needs a more active playstyle attached to it.

runagate · January 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

Ecologically speaking, Vampires aren't a predator at all, they're a parasite. Even in ESO.

Even Parasites have a maximum "carry capacity" within their host environment; above which they risk depopulating that food source on which they depend.

All The Best

It's nice to see something even more ludicrously idiotic posted on the forums from time to time on the forums. Kudos!

Hey, guess what? Super-powerful heroes completely outnumber the dangerous animals in wee little Tamriel where you can walk across an entire province in a couple minutes. You'd think they'd all be extinct by now, eh? It's a fantasy game.

On topic, I can't even think of what I spend more time on in Cyrodiil than chasing after people in Mist Form. If it weren't for the fact that a player could be running off to place an FC no one would even bother attacking them, as it's simply too irritating to spend time waiting for 15 people to assemble and finally batter the damned bat-swarm spamming misters down. If only newbies could learn to stay the hell out of those bats...

Spottswoode · January 2017

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Hawkeye0099 wrote: »

I think the coolest thing they can do to vampire is only at night turn there magic/stam reg go up to 15% and there health reg go back to normal. It would be cool to be excited for night as a vampire.

That could be nice for a bit of flavor, but IIRC, days are more than twice as long as nights in ESO, so that change would be largely inconsequential.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

It is both ecologically (in terms of Apex Predator to Prey ratios) and lore-wise an insanity for there to be as many WWs and Vamps as there are currently.

Ecologically speaking, Vampires aren't a predator at all, they're a parasite. Even in ESO.

Even Parasites have a maximum "carry capacity" within their host environment; above which they risk depopulating that food source on which they depend.

All The Best

But isn't it pretty clear in the lore and in-game that vampires don't actually need to feed to survive?

Hematophagy is predatory in nature. Parasites bind to one host per stage of their life cycle but some have multiple stages and different hosts with each stage. Predation involves multiple victims and doesn't require the death of prey. The term for hematophagous animals like vampire bats is micropredator.
Vampires, on the other hand, are clearly predators. They have clear predatory adaptations for preying on mortals, have hunting behaviors towards mortals, and some engage in pursuit hunting.
As to whether or not the player vampire/werewolf population can be sustained: we're in the middle of a continent wide war during a dragonbreak. There's also a seemingly endless supply of thieves, rebels, bandits, revolutionaries, and necromancers to snack on. The pc vampire strain does seem to eventually get wiped out in the Third Era, but that might mostly be due to competition. (The Cyrodiil strain during Oblivion came into prominence that way.)
As to whether or not they need to feed:

Research on most of the strains is scant, but Pc's do seem to be able to forego feeding. Whether or not they can do it permanently is another question entirely. That would have to be a lore answered question. I don't think there's a definitive answer.

To the actual game issue: I kinda feel like vampires are a little underpowered. I understand them being much weaker than many other ES vampire strains for gameplay reasons, but I feel like they aren't as strong as they should be. Sure you get the healing skills and sneaking boost. Other than that, you don't get a whole lot out of it.
In oblivion, being a vampire netted you some sneaking boost, a charm spell, invisibility, and a fear spell. Skyrim gave you sneaking and illusion boost, immunity to diseases and poison, and resistance to frost. (I'm not even going to mention the other vampire perks in Skyrim.)
Strong resistance to poison and some more stealth and invisibility skills would be a start.