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New pvp meta, broken templar v2
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Let me recap: Templar after 2 years of game will be equalized in sustain with other classes, with draw back in form of forcing to wear frost staff, and people don't like it.
Deal with it0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
That's exactly it, you can spec into all damage with the sustain and because black rose gets 1pc magicka it basically becomes like kags with 70 less spell damage, plus the fact you have destro ult? RIP0 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭Try it out before you say anything. Post a video showcasing your results. Otherwise feedback here is just hear say and conjecture
I'd like to see this too. Make sure people aren't going off about duels again. The majority of PVP 'issues' could be solved by running in a group, if not a raid.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
Because these builds are going to be throwing out BoL's all the time and the BoL' will have to be dealth with if you actually want to kill anything.
Plus there damage won't be insane but they will still be able to throw out shards, magicka steal and still beam you at over 50% at 40m+ until one of their friends hit you and you instant die.
Good players will try and take these out first only to realise it's impossible and they switch between perma blocking front and back bar.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Honestly, given how templars have hands down the worst offensive capabilities in the game, I don't have an issue with them excelling on the defensive side. I don't see any of my characters dying to a frost staff/sword and board templar specd for blocking. So what's the issue?
Just don't get triggered by players specd for defensive play and you won't have problems. I can sorta see the complaint in regards to fighting zerg guilds with these players but such a play style comes with a great opportunity cost. I'd much rather fight a group with templars scared to die rather than a group with self sufficient templars who can survive while providing utility and strong support damage to the raid.1 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭You forgot to write... can't kill anyone. I review the unkillable people I meet and see and hear to the leader board. They are not on it. The goal is ap not walking slowly holding block. The participation trophy in cyrodil is not very lucrative.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
Lookstowindwards✭✭✭The problem is not, whether such a Templar is a real threat or not, or a good unkillable healer.
The problem is that we most likely have to expect ZENI trying to "fix" this by nerving magicka recovery skills into the ground.
Thats what concerns me.
1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭all these people claiming they won't have damage need to neck themselves....because of the sustain they can go into all damage glyphs/mundus, cp all into damage, and they will have access to destro ult. There is no speccing into tanking except in the green tree.2 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@sirston
Well first of all nightblades fear is a magic based one so not sure where stamina comes from but sure you can talon at close range while a nightblade can immobilize you with crippling grasp from afar (continuously). So yeah.... lol不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@sirston
Nah you're better off with a NB because at-least fear will make the enemy move which provides a delay when breaking free while fossilize you can just shrug it off.
goodbye your stamina then. by the time you shrug it off your CC immunity is gone so another one it is! Also to add in I can Talon you while you're already CC'ed by Fossilize and doesn't do enough damage to break fossilize 2k Dmg....face it MagDK wins for CC when I can double the CC.
Yeah. mDKs can use Fossilize, Talons, and then... um... put a whole lot of weak DoTs that can be purged on the enemy. And, if the enemy gets to low health... mDKs can execute them with... oh... nevermind.
But hey, at least the whole time that we're fighting a templar, they can jesus beam the hell out of us.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You forgot to write... can't kill anyone. I review the unkillable people I meet and see and hear to the leader board. They are not on it. The goal is ap not walking slowly holding block. The participation trophy in cyrodil is not very lucrative.
They'll kill people just fine.
They have easy access to destro ult, which is still strong af.
They still have beam.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
BossXV✭✭✭✭DreadKnight wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Only question is whether to go 5 heavy or 5 light, thinking 5-1-1 will be the way to go either way
Thinking 5 heavy, 2 light myself (but then I don't have the undaunted passive yet)
Is 5 heavy the best for everything at this point? Even stam DPS DK?
Heavy is best for PvP. Not for PvE DPS.
Wow, so a long t more tankiness and a but less damage, will this change anytime soon?0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DreadKnight wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Only question is whether to go 5 heavy or 5 light, thinking 5-1-1 will be the way to go either way
Thinking 5 heavy, 2 light myself (but then I don't have the undaunted passive yet)
Is 5 heavy the best for everything at this point? Even stam DPS DK?
Heavy is best for PvP. Not for PvE DPS.
Wow, so a long t more tankiness and a but less damage, will this change anytime soon?
It's not even less dmg at this point in pvp.
It's more hp/ armor/ heals and better sustain in some cases with no real change to damage.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
Well, I mean, you get 200 spell/weapon damage from Wrath, but Light Armor gives you almost as much spell penetration as a Sharpened trait on top of a bunch of spell critical, while medium armor gives you a ton of weapon critical as well as a straight boost to all of your damage.leepalmer95 wrote: »DreadKnight wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Only question is whether to go 5 heavy or 5 light, thinking 5-1-1 will be the way to go either way
Thinking 5 heavy, 2 light myself (but then I don't have the undaunted passive yet)
Is 5 heavy the best for everything at this point? Even stam DPS DK?
Heavy is best for PvP. Not for PvE DPS.
Wow, so a long t more tankiness and a but less damage, will this change anytime soon?
It's not even less dmg at this point in pvp.
It's more hp/ armor/ heals and better sustain in some cases with no real change to damage.
The draw of heavy armor is dealing comparable damage while having a great deal of durability.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade0 -
RazorCaltrops✭✭✭Not only templar but generally speaking, it's funny when people defend unkillable builds with "they can't kill anyone" argument.
Defending cheese builds is pathetic in the first place.PS4 EU2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
Well, I mean, you get 200 spell/weapon damage from Wrath, but Light Armor gives you almost as much spell penetration as a Sharpened trait on top of a bunch of spell critical, while medium armor gives you a ton of weapon critical as well as a straight boost to all of your damage.leepalmer95 wrote: »DreadKnight wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Only question is whether to go 5 heavy or 5 light, thinking 5-1-1 will be the way to go either way
Thinking 5 heavy, 2 light myself (but then I don't have the undaunted passive yet)
Is 5 heavy the best for everything at this point? Even stam DPS DK?
Heavy is best for PvP. Not for PvE DPS.
Wow, so a long t more tankiness and a but less damage, will this change anytime soon?
It's not even less dmg at this point in pvp.
It's more hp/ armor/ heals and better sustain in some cases with no real change to damage.
The draw of heavy armor is dealing comparable damage while having a great deal of durability.
Well the crit change is pointless are heavy uses thief to cover for it because they don't need recovery from mundus.
The medium bonus is 12% extra of your base unbuffed weapon damage. Which for most builds is 2k-3k.
So wraith pretty much gives the same, someome it gives a few 10's of weapom damage less but the damage is pretty much there.
Yeah losing the pen of light makes you lose a few % overall damage but in return you'll get a lot more armor, almost double while medium gets 25% more.
You hardly lose any damage at all. But gain everything else.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭You re worried about Parma block healing Templars without burst dmg when you should be worrying about perma block, perma talon, perma fozzalizing, perma whipping magdks...Edited by UppGRAYxDD on January 8, 2017 6:10PM"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »You re worried about Parma block healing Templars without burst dmg when you should be worrying about perma block, perma talon, perma fozzalizing, perma whipping magdks...
Mag dk's without burst damage.
Or an execute
And worst sustain with high costing skills
With bad heals.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭DreadKnight wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Only question is whether to go 5 heavy or 5 light, thinking 5-1-1 will be the way to go either way
Thinking 5 heavy, 2 light myself (but then I don't have the undaunted passive yet)
Is 5 heavy the best for everything at this point? Even stam DPS DK?
Heavy is best for PvP. Not for PvE DPS.
heavy is not the best for everything, some builds yes, everything hell no
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MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭i can't believe the didn't think about the consequences - i mean thats the problem these guys have in their patches and changes. its like this was the thought process:
" hey guys- noone uses ice staffs!"
"we gotta buff them!"
"good idea Eric! Any ideas?"
" I know- lets let them block with it- but with a cost to magicka - not stam!"
"good idea- another one Eric! that'll do- put it in right away!"
but nobody stepped forward and said- "hey that means i can block all day with stam on one bar- then switch- and when I'm recovered on stam- switch back! - thats *** gameplay and unbalances things....again...."
i mean- it was literally the first scenario i thought of when i heard it- a way to use it to my advantage- and away it could be used against me- its the way we all think- as gamers! how we can use something to give us an edge- and how it can be applied in gameplay. the reason why they dont think like this is because they dont really play the game i suspect- or at least dont play it enough to recognise these things right away.
the frustrating thing is - its a great game- but its ssoooooooo close to being absolutely brilliant. right now i can't recommend it- because the gameplay in pvp isn't right. any new player isn't going to have fun- lets face it- in cyrodil . i watch fengrush, koi, cypher and alcast quite regularly- and these guys come up with ideas daily that are immediately improvements- they play the game as much as anyone out there- why they dont consult these guys - get them together into a think tank twice a year- to come up with ideas- fly them out and let them discuss it for a week- and right away pvp would be improved.
my metaphor is this- if your going to build a basketball court- and design sneakers- you re going to consult the very best basketball players int the world- not necessarily rely solely on the best court designers and footwear apparel designers- to come up with solutions- because something will get missed- and thats the problem each and ever *** patch- the overlook the simple things that we all see. no nerf to destro ultis?!?! why?!?! and proc sets are STILL op. and sorc pets?!! thats an entire skill line wasted, templar passives, again all these glaring problems. they've done some great things to attract new players- like homestead- all that will be great for the game- but theyre neglecting those of us that really enjoy the pvp aspect of the game and actually think it shows promise as being some of the best combat gameplay out there.
the fundamental rule of all those games is this- counter play principles- as in- for every action there MUST be a counter- and to that counter there has to be a counter- thats how you build up great gameplay and interesting play. Rock scissors paper is probably the worlds most popular game in history - because it applies that very simple principle and its done pretty well over time...1 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DreadKnight wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
The way I see it the game goes from you need skill to play this game. To just block and wait until your zerg/friends arrive or destro ult is up.
It happens every patch, more and more skilled gameplay is removed. For example you can bash most of the skills anymore.
Just press destro and block that's the way to play?
Agreed. Everyone has a destro staff on his back nowadays. The destro ulti has ruined the game in pvp, it's a bit like when they had the gap closers jumping up on top of walls - just ruined the battles completely, removed any skills required, just wait and press the easy button.
@ZOS_RichLambert
Eh or you could try not standing in stupid. The Destro staff ult is not hard to avoid, and if you honestly don't have enough time to get out of it mid battle then either you've taken too much damage from other sources, refused to move, or just were taking too much sustained damage to get out of. Yes, not all of this is up to you as to how many people smacked you and how many are continuing to when that Destro ult lands, nor is it up to you where nor when they will land their destro ult, but it's an ability like any other. I've died to more meteors or cheesy proc stamblades than I have ever died to the Destro ult regardless of version, and both meteors and stamblades are both easy enough to stave off.
It isn't the ult, it's stamina players who don't want to L2P when magicka players get something they can use."Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭
What are you even talking about? DK sustain is by far worse than a Templar.Let me recap: Templar after 2 years of game will be equalized in sustain with other classes, with draw back in form of forcing to wear frost staff, and people don't like it.
Deal with itVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
GawdSB✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »UppGRAYxDD wrote: »You re worried about Parma block healing Templars without burst dmg when you should be worrying about perma block, perma talon, perma fozzalizing, perma whipping magdks...
Mag dk's without burst damage.
Or an execute
And worst sustain with high costing skills
With bad heals.
After the patch Dragon Leap will be crazy and their healing will be incredible.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
Because these builds are going to be throwing out BoL's all the time and the BoL' will have to be dealth with if you actually want to kill anything.
Plus there damage won't be insane but they will still be able to throw out shards, magicka steal and still beam you at over 50% at 40m+ until one of their friends hit you and you instant die.
Good players will try and take these out first only to realise it's impossible and they switch between perma blocking front and back bar.
This thread contains a lot of fearmongering and no testing or proof. I can buy that a Templar will be able to perma block and do nothing else. I can't buy that they'll be able to perma block and spam breath of life.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
Because these builds are going to be throwing out BoL's all the time and the BoL' will have to be dealth with if you actually want to kill anything.
Plus there damage won't be insane but they will still be able to throw out shards, magicka steal and still beam you at over 50% at 40m+ until one of their friends hit you and you instant die.
Good players will try and take these out first only to realise it's impossible and they switch between perma blocking front and back bar.
This thread contains a lot of fearmongering and no testing or proof. I can buy that a Templar will be able to perma block and do nothing else. I can't buy that they'll be able to perma block and spam breath of life.
Dessert rose
Black rose
Minor magickasteal
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
Because these builds are going to be throwing out BoL's all the time and the BoL' will have to be dealth with if you actually want to kill anything.
Plus there damage won't be insane but they will still be able to throw out shards, magicka steal and still beam you at over 50% at 40m+ until one of their friends hit you and you instant die.
Good players will try and take these out first only to realise it's impossible and they switch between perma blocking front and back bar.
This thread contains a lot of fearmongering and no testing or proof. I can buy that a Templar will be able to perma block and do nothing else. I can't buy that they'll be able to perma block and spam breath of life.
Dessert rose
Black rose
Minor magickasteal
I still don't see it being an effective longterm strategy. It'll be strong for short periods, but they won't be able to just sit there and do it indefinitely.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People who say they won't kill anything in dead wrong.
Look at the current organized groups. Most of them run 60% Templar perma-blockers. These guys heal-bot the rest of their group making it harder to kill anybody in their group in general and wait till they get enough ultimate. These guys also have a fair share of damage stats from gear and Wrath, so their damage is pretty good. Then they all pop immovable pots and destro ulti at the same time, mowing through 5x their number.3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
Because these builds are going to be throwing out BoL's all the time and the BoL' will have to be dealth with if you actually want to kill anything.
Plus there damage won't be insane but they will still be able to throw out shards, magicka steal and still beam you at over 50% at 40m+ until one of their friends hit you and you instant die.
Good players will try and take these out first only to realise it's impossible and they switch between perma blocking front and back bar.
This thread contains a lot of fearmongering and no testing or proof. I can buy that a Templar will be able to perma block and do nothing else. I can't buy that they'll be able to perma block and spam breath of life.
Dessert rose
Black rose
Minor magickasteal
I still don't see it being an effective longterm strategy. It'll be strong for short periods, but they won't be able to just sit there and do it indefinitely.
Well the term 'perma' block kind of lost it's actual meaning with the regen with blocking nerf.
To me perma blocking is no longer indefinitely but more of a 'long' time. As pvp is basically all about burst a long time to me is 30s+ , usually these perma blocking builds can block for a few mins or such.
Now if they were just perma blocking builds with no other use than to perma block then fine, whatever i could ignore them and actually kill their friends and leave the perma blockers to last.
But with magplars even if they have 'low' stats their BoL's are still going to heal for a big amount. If order to actually kill anyone else you have to kill the healer. Now these healers can now suddenly block using 2 resource pools to block while have 70% reduced damage while block and keep throwing out heals as they are doing that then that is just bad design.
Plus the fact they do have high killing potential in the form of destro ult + beam.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »Templar
5p desert rose 5p black rose Ice staff sword & board
Perma block
Infinite stam, magick, cc breaks, heals purges, reflects.
Unkillable
How's that any worse than the blazing shield Templars? Just walk past them their damage won't be nothing special
Because these builds are going to be throwing out BoL's all the time and the BoL' will have to be dealth with if you actually want to kill anything.
Plus there damage won't be insane but they will still be able to throw out shards, magicka steal and still beam you at over 50% at 40m+ until one of their friends hit you and you instant die.
Good players will try and take these out first only to realise it's impossible and they switch between perma blocking front and back bar.
This thread contains a lot of fearmongering and no testing or proof. I can buy that a Templar will be able to perma block and do nothing else. I can't buy that they'll be able to perma block and spam breath of life.
Dessert rose
Black rose
Minor magickasteal
I still don't see it being an effective longterm strategy. It'll be strong for short periods, but they won't be able to just sit there and do it indefinitely.
Well the term 'perma' block kind of lost it's actual meaning with the regen with blocking nerf.
To me perma blocking is no longer indefinitely but more of a 'long' time. As pvp is basically all about burst a long time to me is 30s+ , usually these perma blocking builds can block for a few mins or such.
Now if they were just perma blocking builds with no other use than to perma block then fine, whatever i could ignore them and actually kill their friends and leave the perma blockers to last.
But with magplars even if they have 'low' stats their BoL's are still going to heal for a big amount. If order to actually kill anyone else you have to kill the healer. Now these healers can now suddenly block using 2 resource pools to block while have 70% reduced damage while block and keep throwing out heals as they are doing that then that is just bad design.
Plus the fact they do have high killing potential in the form of destro ult + beam.
I guess that is why we have a disconnect. For me perma is short for permanent which I take to mean blocking indefinitely. It's definitely going to be strong, but you may be exaggerating a bit.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0