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Careful Analysis of mDK Balancing in Patch 2.7
Ishammael
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I've tested this stuff on PTS now. Here is my point-by-point opinions:
RE: Burning Embers, Fiery Grip, Inferno, Iron Skin, Battle Roar
Who cares?
RE: Standard of Might
I understand this change in the context of destro staff and whip changes. Not a big deal since it isn't used much in PvP anyway.
RE: Whip
+5% dmg. OK I'll take it I guess
RE: Coagulating Blood
After complaining, heming, hawing, touching, and moaning everyone has now tested this.
Open-world action will prove its viability, but I think its going to be an OK change. The ONLY reason its ok is because it can crit and is subject to +crit modifiers.
Some players will gear totally for mana and that may work. I'm not sold yet because the opportunity cost of certain set bonuses is very high (e.g. BSW).
RE: Ferocious Leap
This is now awesome.
RE: Hardened / Volatile
Hardened is still irrelevant. Volatile got a nice boost. Roughly 10k/10s is not bad.
RE: Destro Changes
The +8% on fire destro coupled with whip damage is amazing. I expect to see players front-baring fire staves especially now that you can kinda heal with Coag.
Damage bonus on embers means a healing bonus as well.
Some creative players will likely try to make a frost staff DK. Good luck!
RE: Crushing Shock
RIP Wings
Bugged to hell and back. Now its doesn't even reflect the most important thing.
The Sorc/DK matchup dynamic just became horrible... for DKs.
Miscellaneous:
The Elf Bane set now increases the length of EotS, Magma Armor, WoE and other skills that it did not. This is actually a pretty significant change. The dmg boost on Burning Talons is 25%. I expect some players will likely try to fit this into their builds. The challenge will be utilizing it while maximizing Coag heals (aka mana).
Sustain is now really tough for several reasons. First, DK skill costs have not changed aka they are expensive. Second, to get good heals out of Coag you want to run low mana. Which means you don't want cost reduction. I think careful players will likely try to maximize regen w/o cost redux and add crit modifiers to get huge heals out of Coag.
Overall:
Open world performance will be indeterminate until the patch goes live. I think mSorc and mTemp will be sitting really pretty while nNB and mDK will struggle... so the same as now.
The change to Unchained will pretty dramatically effect stamina builds.
I have lots to add to this but I got stuff to do so will keep it brief for the moment.
Black Rose + Reactive + Malu templars incoming.
PS. mDK 1.5 is back!! Light armor cost reduction is reducing ultimate costs! Yeah baby yeah! @Lord_Hev
RE: Burning Embers, Fiery Grip, Inferno, Iron Skin, Battle Roar
Who cares?
RE: Standard of Might
I understand this change in the context of destro staff and whip changes. Not a big deal since it isn't used much in PvP anyway.
RE: Whip
+5% dmg. OK I'll take it I guess
RE: Coagulating Blood
After complaining, heming, hawing, touching, and moaning everyone has now tested this.
Open-world action will prove its viability, but I think its going to be an OK change. The ONLY reason its ok is because it can crit and is subject to +crit modifiers.
Some players will gear totally for mana and that may work. I'm not sold yet because the opportunity cost of certain set bonuses is very high (e.g. BSW).
RE: Ferocious Leap
This is now awesome.
RE: Hardened / Volatile
Hardened is still irrelevant. Volatile got a nice boost. Roughly 10k/10s is not bad.
RE: Destro Changes
The +8% on fire destro coupled with whip damage is amazing. I expect to see players front-baring fire staves especially now that you can kinda heal with Coag.
Damage bonus on embers means a healing bonus as well.
Some creative players will likely try to make a frost staff DK. Good luck!
RE: Crushing Shock
RIP Wings
Bugged to hell and back. Now its doesn't even reflect the most important thing.
The Sorc/DK matchup dynamic just became horrible... for DKs.
Miscellaneous:
The Elf Bane set now increases the length of EotS, Magma Armor, WoE and other skills that it did not. This is actually a pretty significant change. The dmg boost on Burning Talons is 25%. I expect some players will likely try to fit this into their builds. The challenge will be utilizing it while maximizing Coag heals (aka mana).
Sustain is now really tough for several reasons. First, DK skill costs have not changed aka they are expensive. Second, to get good heals out of Coag you want to run low mana. Which means you don't want cost reduction. I think careful players will likely try to maximize regen w/o cost redux and add crit modifiers to get huge heals out of Coag.
Overall:
Open world performance will be indeterminate until the patch goes live. I think mSorc and mTemp will be sitting really pretty while nNB and mDK will struggle... so the same as now.
The change to Unchained will pretty dramatically effect stamina builds.
I have lots to add to this but I got stuff to do so will keep it brief for the moment.
Black Rose + Reactive + Malu templars incoming.
PS. mDK 1.5 is back!! Light armor cost reduction is reducing ultimate costs! Yeah baby yeah! @Lord_Hev
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Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭well, sorcs lost velocious curse. even with wings not being able to reflect Crushing shock. doesn't really matter DK still comes out on top.Invictus2 -
PenguinInACan✭✭✭✭There is no way to gauge open world performance on PTS. Nobody goes into Cyro and there are no group fights. It's all dueling to prove who figured out the new OP build.
Mag DK has been relevant in duels since one tam (not great, but not horrible) and this "balance" might push the class to better performance. But we wont know until live because everyone is too busy dueling than actual open world group v group PvP.Marek™1 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PenguinInACan wrote: »There is no way to gauge open world performance on PTS. Nobody goes into Cyro and there are no group fights. It's all dueling to prove who figured out the new OP build.
Mag DK has been relevant in duels since one tam (not great, but not horrible) and this "balance" might push the class to better performance. But we wont know until live because everyone is too busy dueling than actual open world group v group PvP.
Totally agree. Which is why I said exactly this in my post.0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
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it hits twice in 12 seconds as opposed to hitting about 4 times in 12 seconds...... not much of a buffEdited by Lucky28 on January 5, 2017 3:24AMInvictus7 -
Mustard✭✭✭✭I've tested this stuff on PTS now. Here is my point-by-point opinions:
RE: Burning Embers, Fiery Grip, Inferno, Iron Skin, Battle Roar
Who cares?
RE: Standard of Might
I understand this change in the context of destro staff and whip changes. Not a big deal since it isn't used much in PvP anyway.
RE: Whip
+5% dmg. OK I'll take it I guess
RE: Coagulating Blood
After complaining, heming, hawing, touching, and moaning everyone has now tested this.
Open-world action will prove its viability, but I think its going to be an OK change. The ONLY reason its ok is because it can crit and is subject to +crit modifiers.
Some players will gear totally for mana and that may work. I'm not sold yet because the opportunity cost of certain set bonuses is very high (e.g. BSW).
RE: Ferocious Leap
This is now awesome.
RE: Hardened / Volatile
Hardened is still irrelevant. Volatile got a nice boost. Roughly 10k/10s is not bad.
RE: Destro Changes
The +8% on fire destro coupled with whip damage is amazing. I expect to see players front-baring fire staves especially now that you can kinda heal with Coag.
Damage bonus on embers means a healing bonus as well.
Some creative players will likely try to make a frost staff DK. Good luck!
RE: Crushing Shock
RIP Wings
Bugged to hell and back. Now its doesn't even reflect the most important thing.
The Sorc/DK matchup dynamic just became horrible... for DKs.
Miscellaneous:
The Elf Bane set now increases the length of EotS, Magma Armor, WoE and other skills that it did not. This is actually a pretty significant change. The dmg boost on Burning Talons is 25%. I expect some players will likely try to fit this into their builds. The challenge will be utilizing it while maximizing Coag heals (aka mana).
Sustain is now really tough for several reasons. First, DK skill costs have not changed aka they are expensive. Second, to get good heals out of Coag you want to run low mana. Which means you don't want cost reduction. I think careful players will likely try to maximize regen w/o cost redux and add crit modifiers to get huge heals out of Coag.
Overall:
Open world performance will be indeterminate until the patch goes live. I think mSorc and mTemp will be sitting really pretty while nNB and mDK will struggle... so the same as now.
The change to Unchained will pretty dramatically effect stamina builds.
I have lots to add to this but I got stuff to do so will keep it brief for the moment.
Black Rose + Reactive + Malu templars incoming.
PS. mDK 1.5 is back!! Light armor cost reduction is reducing ultimate costs! Yeah baby yeah! @Lord_Hev
It seems like using tavas, trainee, and bloodspawn will be a must again.1 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
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it hits twice in 12 seconds as opposed to hitting about 4 times in 12 seconds...... not much of a buff
For sustain DPS, yes a nerf. But in PvP it will now use fewer GCDs allowing you to do other things.2 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm still not enjoying the depleted magic pool for coagulating blood at all . I did like you and swapped to Magic regen instead of cost reduction . The Dragon leap is fun now and feels more powerful . Whip and burning embers still decent . None of that fixes the overwhelming strange way to exercise a well timed heal with Dragon blood anymore for me . It feel wrong and backwards . Truly .1 -
Blackfyre20✭✭✭✭RE: Coagulating Blood
After complaining, heming, hawing, touching, and moaning everyone has now tested this.
Open-world action will prove its viability, but I think its going to be an OK change. The ONLY reason its ok is because it can crit and is subject to +crit modifiers.
Some players will gear totally for mana and that may work. I'm not sold yet because the opportunity cost of certain set bonuses is very high (e.g. BSW).
People keep talking about huge heals that they are getting on PTS (I can't test, on console unfortunately) but the skill is just too gimicky IMO. I said this in another thread but dragonblood on live is a unique heal that is at its best when you need it most (its best just really sucks). All it needs is a little love. Allow it to crit, increase the % missing health slightly, and maybe add a small HoT instead of the health recovery boost. That isn't going to give massive burst heals that get you back to full health, but if I want that I can get on my magplar. What it would do is get you out of execute range in a pinch and complement healing from embers/inhale/whip nicely.
I don't like the new change because it takes a skill that has a good, rational, and unique concept (a heal that is useful when you need it, useless when you don't, and benefits from an investment in health) and turns it into a skill with a very poor concept (I should build so that I am missing a lot of my main resource all the time in case my health gets low). If they are going to leave coagulating blood the way it is I would at least like to just see the minor vitality put on green dragon blood and allow it to crit. Nobody uses GDB anymore and I would happily take that new morph which is at least reliable over the new CB on my mDK even though CB would outperform it in certain situations.Black Rose + Reactive + Malu templars incoming.
Reeeaaallllyyyyy not looking forward to thisBuff Soft Caps1 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
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Around 107
Is this intended tho? @ZOS_GinaBruno
If it is, then light armor is actually a viable choice for all classes.(not just magDK) If not intended... please Zenimax, please make it an intended feature. Light armor is very squishy, and having quicker access to ults is balanced imo as you suffer survivability in exchange.Edited by Lord_Hev on January 5, 2017 5:07AM5 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think the light armor ult cast reduction is a bug. It's certainly not documented in the patch notes we received. But it is a nice buff to light armor which badly needs it -- so even if unintended I hope it remains.
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are you shitting us about the light armor ulti reduction thing? Curse you for getting my hopes up since they sometimes forget to put stuff in patch notes.
In general I am skeptical of what I read about the DK, but I totally trust Ish when it comes to them and if he can live with it then that's good enough for me.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
Ernest145✭✭✭
it hits twice in 12 seconds as opposed to hitting about 4 times in 12 seconds...... not much of a buff
For sustain DPS, yes a nerf. But in PvP it will now use fewer GCDs allowing you to do other things.
Magicka Sorc burst in pvp is all about timing your curse and frag at the same time. Having to now wait 6 seconds to get your main burst off is not a good change. Although with the buff to the destroy staff skill line and crushing shock might make due. Either way its not the end of the world for me at least on my sorc but makes going dual wield sorc even less attractive than it already is.Invictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord2 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Are you shitting us about the light armor ulti reduction thing? Curse you for getting my hopes up since they sometimes forget to put stuff in patch notes.
In general I am skeptical of what I read about the DK, but I totally trust Ish when it comes to them and if he can live with it then that's good enough for me.
Totally not joking about light armor.
I think this is a bug... But honestly it's a great change.
Here's the deal about Coagulating: it can crit. Is it gimmicky? Yes. Can it heal for big amounts? Yes. Is there going to be a situation where you're at full mana and get ripped? Yes. Does it make logical sense to be based on missing mana? No. Is it a good skill now? No. Open world viability is TBD. Dragon Blood never mattered in duels.0 -
KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭Lol either you've never played sorc and have no clue what you're talking about or you're biased as ***, which I didn't expect from you because I've heard you're a decent and a smart person.
The curse change is a straight up nerf. There is a reason 99% of sorcs are complaining and rightly so after testing it.The good DKs were fine vs sorcs yesterday. The only trouble I saw DKs have vs sorcs was pet sorcs but that is to be expected as everyone is having trouble vs pet sorc in duels.
It also kills DW sorc.0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KisoValley wrote: »Lol either you've never played sorc and have no clue what you're talking about or you're biased as ***, which I didn't expect from you because I've heard you're a decent and a smart person.
The curse change is a straight up nerf. There is a reason 99% of sorcs are complaining and rightly so after testing it.The good DKs were fine vs sorcs yesterday. The only trouble I saw DKs have vs sorcs was pet sorcs but that is to be expected as everyone is having trouble vs pet sorc in duels.
It also kills DW sorc.
My wit and charm ARE astounding, it's true.0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Overall, we hear a lot of people crying about the current state of DKs. The thing is, they are very playable right now and can fare pretty well in open world, and this patch is buffing them.
The 5% whip boost will turn out to be more than 5% extra damage when you add in elemental cps and dunmer passives I suppose, so it's quite a big buff to dk's burst potential imo.
The banner change is irrelevant, if people were dying in standards before, they'll keep dying to the weaker version as well. Most players know how to roll dodge out of it.
The new coag blood is strange, we'll have to wait and see how it can work in open world combat, I'll definitely try it, but on paper it doesn't look great : It's got the potential to give out a higher heal, but it doesn't guarantee that it can provide that heal when I need it. Soooo not so great.
Switching to the other morph means losing minor vitality. It sucks, but I think the tradeoff for the higher whip damage and the new flame damage on ferocious leap is ok.
People can be disapointed that nothing else got changed, and can cry a bit about dragonblood I guess, but overall dk isn't gonna get tanked with this patch, it's gonna perform better overall.
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Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Evocation from LA is reportedly reducing roll and bash too.
Anyone able to see if cDB is getting the appropriate battle spirit? A guy on the offical thread says it isn't being affected. I won't be able to get onto the pts till the end of the day.Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree that it's hard to assess without open world play, and I am typically sitting at low magicka. It might work. But I am not happy with a change that "might" work after it goes live when we are looking at probably another year for them to look at changing it.1 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Disclaimer: I have not been on PTS and I cannot attest to its open world viability.
That being said, the coag change along with a few other changes this patch, like others are far and above the most asinine pieces of literature and design ideas I have ever read, and it continues to showcase the utter delusional standpoint the development team has on their own game. The are so committed to this "certain feel" to a play style to just completely rework a skill, which is astounding because they rework the fabric of the whole game every quarter, I don't see why they can't rework a skill people have actual concern with.
Just like every patch, we ask for more apples and they throw the rest of the produce section at us instead of just giving a little more apples until content.
Edit: time will ultimately tell, and I guess... I hope I'm wrong?Edited by caeliusstarbreaker on January 5, 2017 5:21PMRhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole2 -
KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭KisoValley wrote: »Lol either you've never played sorc and have no clue what you're talking about or you're biased as ***, which I didn't expect from you because I've heard you're a decent and a smart person.
The curse change is a straight up nerf. There is a reason 99% of sorcs are complaining and rightly so after testing it.The good DKs were fine vs sorcs yesterday. The only trouble I saw DKs have vs sorcs was pet sorcs but that is to be expected as everyone is having trouble vs pet sorc in duels.
It also kills DW sorc.
My wit and charm ARE astounding, it's true.
I've been informed you just have no clue what you're talking about, although you are a great guy so I'll just assume you're not happy about the patch (like 99% of people) and this is messing with your thought process in relation to curse.2 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KisoValley wrote: »KisoValley wrote: »Lol either you've never played sorc and have no clue what you're talking about or you're biased as ***, which I didn't expect from you because I've heard you're a decent and a smart person.
The curse change is a straight up nerf. There is a reason 99% of sorcs are complaining and rightly so after testing it.The good DKs were fine vs sorcs yesterday. The only trouble I saw DKs have vs sorcs was pet sorcs but that is to be expected as everyone is having trouble vs pet sorc in duels.
It also kills DW sorc.
My wit and charm ARE astounding, it's true.
I've been informed you just have no clue what you're talking about, although you are a great guy so I'll just assume you're not happy about the patch (like 99% of people) and this is messing with your thought process in relation to curse.
I am a great guy, everyone! Kiso says so! Whew... glad we got that out of the way.1 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All I wanted for Christmas was a reliable consistent Dragonblood heal...
plz zenimax?? Can I heal myself as I once could 2 years ago? prz? I don't care about my lack of mobility, sub-par damage, inability to kill an afk stam DK tank, lack of an execute, crappy dots, expensive skills, or any of it. I really don't care. I. Just. Want. To. Selfheal with Dragonblood when I need it whenever I want. That's it.1 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I wanted for Christmas was a reliable consistent Dragonblood heal...
plz zenimax?? Can I heal myself as I once could 2 years ago? prz? I don't care about my lack of mobility, sub-par damage, inability to kill an afk stam DK tank, lack of an execute, crappy dots, expensive skills, or any of it. I really don't care. I. Just. Want. To. Selfheal with Dragonblood when I need it whenever I want. That's it.
They could have just made it, when buffed, akin to Magicka vigor... But it's ok in 4 patches they'll make it heal for 33% of your crowns.Rhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole4 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'll be switching to GDB if the new Coag goes live. I need a heal when I'm low health, not when I'm full health and no Magicka which is the most likely scenario. What am I gonna do with a full health bar and no Magicka? Drop an ulti and get a heal anyway? Block, using all my stamina up whilst waiting for Magicka to replenish?
Coag is worse now than it was before in terms of usefulness.PC EU5
