Do not put these into live...

skwherl · January 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno This is a few things that i think most of us would like to be kept on live.

Dragonblood - Do not change this to 33% of your missing magicka, this is a ridiculous and useless change and how this even made it to pts baffles me. The best way to have dragon blood if you're going to base it off of magicka is to give it a value like breath of life has, or make it a hot... either would work.

Blazing spear - Do not remove the cc from this. No one has ever complained about this ability yet it recieves a nerf... why? there is nothing wrong with it, espcially since its really the only good cc on templar right now, toppling charge is buggy (should definately fix that toppling charge animation and give us thieves guild animations back) as hell and javelin can be dodged as you can see it coming from a mile away.

Velocious curse - Keep this the way it is. It is essential for sorc dmg and once again i've never heard anyone complain about this being so op

Frost staff heavy attack taunt - uh, i dont even think this needs to be explained... it just makes no sense at all... what type of tank uses a frost staff to taunt... wtf

If you want to mention anything that should be kept the way it is currently, comment below and i will add it to the post.
Also thank you for making the cp cap an even number, thats been bugging the hell out of me for along time.

SirAndy · January 2017

Have you played on the PTS yet?

Gilvoth · January 2017

i do not agree with anything you have said here.
i DO agree with the changes they have made and hope they keep these changes.
accept for dragonblood, i do think the dragon blood change is not fair to dragonights.
but all the rest i am sorry but i do agree with those changes.
im sorry.,

skwherl · January 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i do not agree with anything you have said here.
i DO agree with the changes they have made and hope they keep these changes.
accept for dragonblood, i do think the dragon blood change is not fair to dragonights.
but all the rest i am sorry but i do agree with those changes.
im sorry.,

Why do you not agree with the other things i have mentioned?

Taleof2Cities · January 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Have you played on the PTS yet?

Agreed ...

A lot of desk jockeys making posts and starting threads ... when the actual PTS patch wasn't even ready to sandbox in today.

Rjizzle09 · January 2017

You all cant be serious? There is no way that anyone that plays the game seriously thinks all these changes are good? Thats the problem zos listens to plp who have no idea about the game and balances it around them when the plp who do actually stream and know about the game are the ones bringing in customers. you dont see a roleplayer bringing people in its the people that show off crazy things you can do that make plp say wow i can do that? i got to play that game!!!! all these changes are crap they did the complete opposite of what needed to be done. Pvp is still the same nothing changed at all like that should jave been one of the main focuses. Ive heard of zos fanboys but come on ive even heard plp tjat LOOOOOOVE zos say they dont agree with this patch. Come on man get real

HoloYoitsu · January 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Have you played on the PTS yet?

Agreed ...

A lot of desk jockeys making posts and starting threads ... when the actual PTS patch wasn't even ready to sandbox in today.

The beauty of words and language is that it allows ideas and knowledge to be conveyed without people having to "do it themselves". Anyone with basic reading comprehension can see from the patch notes that many of the planned changes are huge nerfs. Or are you trying to say that criticism isn't valid because of the off chance that the patch notes are wrong and the changes are not as stated?

AzraelKrieg · January 2017

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

You all cant be serious? There is no way that anyone that plays the game seriously thinks all these changes are good? Thats the problem zos listens to plp who have no idea about the game and balances it around them when the plp who do actually stream and know about the game are the ones bringing in customers. you dont see a roleplayer bringing people in its the people that show off crazy things you can do that make plp say wow i can do that? i got to play that game!!!! all these changes are crap they did the complete opposite of what needed to be done. Pvp is still the same nothing changed at all like that should jave been one of the main focuses. Ive heard of zos fanboys but come on ive even heard plp tjat LOOOOOOVE zos say they dont agree with this patch. Come on man get real

The reason for the complaints is people don't like change but at the same time scream for changes to be made. The community on the forums is at best a very small, very noisy minority in terms of the game's actual community. ZOS could very well have their own reasons as to why the changes were made without player feedback on them before the changes were decided on. It's not up to them to disclose those reasons to us. They don't have to do that. If you're unhappy about them before even being able to test there are two options for you; suck it up or shut up and move on. If however after extensive testing on the PTS you find something needs to be adjusted, you have the option to give feedback on the change. If you don't give feedback, the best way of doing so is in game by the way, then again you have two options; suck it up or shut up and move on.

templesus · January 2017

I can't believe anyone could agree with the blazing spear nerf. Do you realize how terrible templar CCS are as a whole? Blazing spear can get blocked 24/7 and javelin doesn't hit until you throw 3 of them and by then you're out of magicka/stamina since it's so expensive. Toppling charge AKA the most broken gap closer in the game as our main CC? I guess every magplar will be pigeonholed into running destro and running that PoS ability destructive reach.

SirAndy · January 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The beauty of words and language is that it allows ideas and knowledge to be conveyed without people having to "do it themselves". Anyone with basic reading comprehension can see from the patch notes that many of the planned changes are huge nerfs. Or are you trying to say that criticism isn't valid because of the off chance that the patch notes are wrong and the changes are not as stated?

Anyone who has ever left their parents basement also knows that reading about something and experiencing something are two different things.

You still have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play.

You are guessing and i am not convinced they are the educated kind ...

SublimeSparo · January 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

You all cant be serious? There is no way that anyone that plays the game seriously thinks all these changes are good? Thats the problem zos listens to plp who have no idea about the game and balances it around them when the plp who do actually stream and know about the game are the ones bringing in customers. you dont see a roleplayer bringing people in its the people that show off crazy things you can do that make plp say wow i can do that? i got to play that game!!!! all these changes are crap they did the complete opposite of what needed to be done. Pvp is still the same nothing changed at all like that should jave been one of the main focuses. Ive heard of zos fanboys but come on ive even heard plp tjat LOOOOOOVE zos say they dont agree with this patch. Come on man get real

The reason for the complaints is people don't like change but at the same time scream for changes to be made. The community on the forums is at best a very small, very noisy minority in terms of the game's actual community. ZOS could very well have their own reasons as to why the changes were made without player feedback on them before the changes were decided on. It's not up to them to disclose those reasons to us. They don't have to do that. If you're unhappy about them before even being able to test there are two options for you; suck it up or shut up and move on. If however after extensive testing on the PTS you find something needs to be adjusted, you have the option to give feedback on the change. If you don't give feedback, the best way of doing so is in game by the way, then again you have two options; suck it up or shut up and move on.

Because we all know how well they respond to actual feedback on the PTS

AzraelKrieg · January 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

You all cant be serious? There is no way that anyone that plays the game seriously thinks all these changes are good? Thats the problem zos listens to plp who have no idea about the game and balances it around them when the plp who do actually stream and know about the game are the ones bringing in customers. you dont see a roleplayer bringing people in its the people that show off crazy things you can do that make plp say wow i can do that? i got to play that game!!!! all these changes are crap they did the complete opposite of what needed to be done. Pvp is still the same nothing changed at all like that should jave been one of the main focuses. Ive heard of zos fanboys but come on ive even heard plp tjat LOOOOOOVE zos say they dont agree with this patch. Come on man get real

The reason for the complaints is people don't like change but at the same time scream for changes to be made. The community on the forums is at best a very small, very noisy minority in terms of the game's actual community. ZOS could very well have their own reasons as to why the changes were made without player feedback on them before the changes were decided on. It's not up to them to disclose those reasons to us. They don't have to do that. If you're unhappy about them before even being able to test there are two options for you; suck it up or shut up and move on. If however after extensive testing on the PTS you find something needs to be adjusted, you have the option to give feedback on the change. If you don't give feedback, the best way of doing so is in game by the way, then again you have two options; suck it up or shut up and move on.

Because we all know how well they respond to actual feedback on the PTS

Well, they made changes to poisons, Radiant Destruction, the Destro Staff ult, made and then revert some skill costs and effects, as well as a number of other things during PTS testing in various other patches.

Rjizzle09 · January 2017

While i agree i cant test i also agree that testing wont somve anything even if i tested and literally told them this isnt workimg or this is bad its not like they would listen? athe state if tjis game more than justifies my claim and also me being unhappy with them is irrelevant its about the dang game im playing im a hardcore day one player i been here for nerfs and buffs and this patch by fsr is the most congusing unnecessary nerf buff patch ige ever experienced. The things that needed touching didnt get touched. Only people who dont play that often agree with these nonsense changes and if yiu do play alot you probably just rp all day and nothing wrong with that but dont sit here and tell people that play the game alot and very hardcore how to feel about these notes you have no idea what it feels like to see a game with SO MUCH potential get *** by crazy decisions such as the ones that have been made. Pvp literally got nothing you can still stack prov sets who the hell needs crit??????? I can kill you by stacking sets none of them have to crit to kill you. People wear impen anyway so making them not crit is dumb and rushed and just poorly thought out. Heavy armor didnt get touched nightblades incap didnt get touched(but dat dk standard nerf tho?) lol stealth llay didnt get touched its way too strong templars were unjustly nerfed with the shards nerf like what? People think the deatro ulyi got nerfed??? KYS cause the five percent they took away they ADDED 8% PERCENT you can literally cast a flame destro ulti and switch to your lightning bar and gg they made that ulti even stronger! lol and why is it even unblockable like what?? Dk dragon blood made useless AGAIN? why would i want to spam a heal that only gets stronger when my magicka is gone even if you heal youre out of magick!!!! then youre dead like im sorry people can fanboy all they want and make excuses for zos but the vast majority of us who actually play this game alot dont agree with these changes they make absolutely no sense and for people to actually say this is okay have no clue what this game is about just like the devs

Recremen · January 2017

Agree on all points except frost staff, the most underutilized staff in the game. People don't use it for PvE damage like ever, so just let them play with turning it into a tanking option. It's fun, let folks try it.

HoloYoitsu · January 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The beauty of words and language is that it allows ideas and knowledge to be conveyed without people having to "do it themselves". Anyone with basic reading comprehension can see from the patch notes that many of the planned changes are huge nerfs. Or are you trying to say that criticism isn't valid because of the off chance that the patch notes are wrong and the changes are not as stated?

Anyone who has ever left their parents basement also knows that reading about something and experiencing something are two different things.

You still have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play.

You are guessing and i am not convinced they are the educated kind ...

You would have me believe that all the people voicing grievances are 2 year olds who are unable to determine if drastic changes listed in the patch notes would be beneficial or harmful to their builds. How about we apply your assumption to some specifics?

Fiery Grip: Increased the duration of the Major Expedition buff granted by this ability and its morphs to 8 seconds from 2 seconds.

Meaningless change, until chains is fixed to actually work consistently it's not worth a bar slot.

Coagulating Blood (Dragon Blood morph): This morph now heals you for 33% of your missing Magicka instead of 33% of your missing Health.

Unadulterated nerf. Can you now get a concievably bigger heal? Yes. But only when you're nearly out OOM; a mag DK w/o mag is a dead DK. What's that you say, pop a pot or drop an ult to restore mag after healing? Hello genius, you could have just done that to heal in the first place then.

The key problem with this change is it makes the heal completely inconsistent! What happens when you take a burst but have high mag? You can't heal with this skill. An undependable heal is unacceptable in a game where damage is 100% dependable.

Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 38%.

Cost increases are to the base cost of the skill, meaning that after factoring in cost reductions that everyone has the actual cost increase on your tooltip will be greater than the 38% listed int he patch notes. I don't have to be "on the pts" to know that this change hurts heavy armor S/B mag blades.

Encase: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 6%.

Encase is already the strongest aoe root in the game for group PvP. Root & CC spam is already ridiculous, it doesn't need to be made cheaper.

Velocious Curse (Daedric Curse morph):
Renamed this morph to Haunting Curse.
This morph no longer shortens the duration of the curse to 3.5 seconds from 6 seconds; instead, it causes the curse to echo and trigger one additional time 6 seconds after the first explosion.

This is about the only nerf in the patch notes that you could defend by saying "well the wording is vague, you need to test it first". Even if it allows you to stack a Curse w/ the Haunting proc it would be an immensely stupid change.

Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): Increased the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 6 seconds, causing it to tick damage an additional 2 times; however, it no longer stuns the enemy when it first hits them.

Removing one of templars few CCs is clearly a nerf fighting someone 1v1 or smallscale.

Radiant Destruction: Decreased the damage from this ability and its morphs by approximately 21%.

Straight up damage nerf, clearly affects templar dps negatively.

Elemental Storm: Reduced the damage for this ability and its morphs by 5%.

5% dmg reduction doesn't change anything in regards to how unbalanced destro ult is in PvP. I don't need to "test the numbers on pts" to deduce that.

Force Shock: This ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected. Beam-type attacks cannot be reflected, but are able to be blocked.

I don't need to be on PTS to see how this change harms mag DK by removing yet more counterplay from the game. This is even worse than the original design where force shock counted as 3 projectiles.

So would you please tell me again how I "have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play"?

SirAndy · January 2017

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

So would you please tell me again how I "have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play"?

Yes, since you just proved my point.

Speculation and assumptions, loosely based on your imagination combined with a healthy dose of "lets make stuff up".

Download the PTS update, invite some friends and do some thorough digging, then report back here.
That's how you get actual real world answers ...

Mojmir · January 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

So would you please tell me again how I "have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play"?

Yes, since you just proved my point.

Speculation and assumptions, loosely based on your imagination combined with a healthy dose of "lets make stuff up".

Download the PTS update, invite some friends and do some thorough digging, then report back here.
That's how you get actual real world answers ...

OR just play the game enough to know how the development team works, 90% of these changes will be bad.

redspecter23 · January 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

So would you please tell me again how I "have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play"?

Yes, since you just proved my point.

Speculation and assumptions, loosely based on your imagination combined with a healthy dose of "lets make stuff up".

Download the PTS update, invite some friends and do some thorough digging, then report back here.
That's how you get actual real world answers ...

If there is anything left to find on the PTS that would change the perception of these patch notes, that's on ZOS to put those changes in the patch notes. It's agreed that if there are other changes not listed, then of course they will be relevant but the asssumption is that changes are listed in the patch notes. With the current information we have, these criticisms are justified. How can you say it's speculation to believe to the letter what is in the patch notes?

SirAndy · January 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

OR just play the game enough to know how the development team works, 90% of these changes will be bad.

Is 3 1/2 years enough?

Mojmir · January 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

OR just play the game enough to know how the development team works, 90% of these changes will be bad.

Is 3 1/2 years enough?

Nah, I've also been here since beta. Being vets means nothing to the devs, if anything they loathe us.

HoloYoitsu · January 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

So would you please tell me again how I "have absolutely no idea how all these changes are going to affect the actual game play"?

Yes, since you just proved my point.

Speculation and assumptions, loosely based on your imagination combined with a healthy dose of "lets make stuff up".

Download the PTS update, invite some friends and do some thorough digging, then report back here.
That's how you get actual real world answers ...

Go ahead, tell me what I'm "making up". Tell me in what way the specific examples I gave you above are uncalled for. Please don't just come back again with another empty post telling me I'm wrong yet refusing to address the very specific examples I listed.

If I was going to get into the realm of wild "speculation and assumptions" I would start talking about ideas like combining Minor Magickasteal w/ Siphoning Strikes to possibly offset the Swallow Soul cost increase. But even if that works out, you still ended up with losing a bar spot.

starkerealm · January 2017

skwherl wrote: »

Frost staff heavy attack taunt - uh, i dont even think this needs to be explained... it just makes no sense at all... what type of tank uses a frost staff to taunt... wtf

On live? None. In fact, what player in their right mind uses frost staffs on live at all right now? The changes there... yes, all of them, appear to be pretty specifically focused on retooling the frost staff into a legitimate alternative for magicka focused tanks. So, if you want to tank in light armor, with a staff... that should be possible now.

Notice the full change list. Increased blocking mitigation. Taunt on heavy attack. Blocking drains magicka instead of stamina, and stops magicka regen.

Yeah, this might actually make for some pretty scary tank builds that just aren't possible on live.

Vaoh · January 2017

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

..........Thats the problem zos listens to plp who have no idea about the game and balances it around them.........

....... when the plp who do actually stream and know about the game are the ones bringing in customers.

Normally I'd agree with you, except this is no longer entirely true.

Wrobel has turned Ice Staff+Cold Damage builds into a Critical Damage-focused, taunting and tanking setup, where the only sets that truly could benefit their unique Ice-focus are proc sets (Winterborn, Iceheart) which cannot crit. A moronic Hybrid type of staff that no other game has ever been dumb enough to mimic. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

So people did not really ask for this. Not even stupid people. Only our Devs thought of this and made it a reality. The guys behind many of these U13 balance changes need to be replaced asap.

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

My gawd anyone with a middle school math education can run those numbers and see all the classes getting a massive nerf with an increase in champion points but those have nerfs too . I know what there trying to do , and that's the wrong way . Everyone needs to relearn their class again instead of just throwing out those busted proc suits in PvP and fixing the champion system . They have power creep upon power creep and they're gutting the classes instead of the creep . Lazy !

scrobey · January 2017

Frost staff taunt? ... Like why?

Rjizzle09 · January 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

..........Thats the problem zos listens to plp who have no idea about the game and balances it around them.........

....... when the plp who do actually stream and know about the game are the ones bringing in customers.

Normally I'd agree with you, except this is no longer entirely true.

Wrobel has turned Ice Staff+Cold Damage builds into a Critical Damage-focused, taunting and tanking setup, where the only sets that truly could benefit their unique Ice-focus are proc sets (Winterborn, Iceheart) which cannot crit. A moronic Hybrid type of staff that no other game has ever been dumb enough to mimic. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

So people did not really ask for this. Not even stupid people. Only our Devs thought of this and made it a reality. The guys behind many of these U13 balance changes need to be replaced asap.

Yeah i definitely agree that a change is in order like theyve proven that they cant balance this game at all. Final fantasy 14 was absolutely horrible when it first came out until they fired the comete first team and briught in someone else with a vision. I say the same thing needs to happen to them honestly. They should just take the game down for a week or so and fix it and totally revamp it 100% so that it makes sense again. Eso is so full of potential it can literally be the best game out there mmo wise but its being held back severely by this current team. I actually like @Gina_bruno she actually listens to us if she was doing balancing maybe the player base would at least be heard. How it stand now tho the devs seriously have no idea what this game even is anymore its not skyrim its an mmo and should be treated like on they may as well take the servers down and make it a single player game with online capabities....wait isnt it......nah nvm lol

HoloYoitsu · January 2017

scrobey wrote: »

Frost staff taunt? ... Like why?

So that you can be a frost staff pet sorc w/ tremorscale in duels.

skwherl · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

skwherl wrote: »

Frost staff heavy attack taunt - uh, i dont even think this needs to be explained... it just makes no sense at all... what type of tank uses a frost staff to taunt... wtf

On live? None. In fact, what player in their right mind uses frost staffs on live at all right now? The changes there... yes, all of them, appear to be pretty specifically focused on retooling the frost staff into a legitimate alternative for magicka focused tanks. So, if you want to tank in light armor, with a staff... that should be possible now.

Notice the full change list. Increased blocking mitigation. Taunt on heavy attack. Blocking drains magicka instead of stamina, and stops magicka regen.

Yeah, this might actually make for some pretty scary tank builds that just aren't possible on live.

What about people in trials using frost staff as its the only sharp maelstrom staff theyve managed to get, are they supposed to throw that away just because of the risk of taunting the boss?

KisoValley · January 2017

when I read some posts on here I think to myself that some people really don't understand the game they play do they?

Glass · January 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Have you played on the PTS yet?

Agreed ...

A lot of desk jockeys making posts and starting threads ... when the actual PTS patch wasn't even ready to sandbox in today.

Do we need to test the pts to understand that the taunt from the frost staff is completely ridiculous?

Wollust · January 2017

I still think we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
It might turn out good. Remember how stam sorc moved from worst to best? No one expected that back then just from reading patch notes.
Let's just wait for the PTS and then go crazy if it's that bad.