Why do people feel "Entitled" to partcipate in vet dungeons when they don't know the mechanics?

Jimmy562 · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Did you explain the mechanics to them?

I never really paid attention to the Flesh Abomination mechanics in normal, so your "baby steps" don't actually work there. Same with the last boss. in normal, I just heal through his blast rather than jump through the portals. So that's no practice for Vet either.

The only way you learn the mechanics for Vet is by doing it in vet.

Why should I waste my time explaining the mechanics in a vet dungeon run? Players should already know them by now. If they don't why would they join a vet dungeon run in the first place? Start with normal first, and then work your way up to vet.

I've seen people complain about this in games like WoW but the normal modes are over so quickly you don't get a chance to see and learn the mechanics. What I find funny is you claim it is a waste of time to explain the mechanics of the fight but then proceed to wipe a bunch of times and make a post about it. It would of saved you so much time to just take 5 minutes and explain it.

I've been in plenty of groups where people didn't understand the mechanics of a fight and someone has rage quit. We get a replacement, explain the mechanics to the people that don't know and proceed to do the fight easily.

AlwaysOnFire · December 2016

why do people feel "entitled" to play and access content in a game they own without your approval of their skill or execution at doing so? I don't really know. Probably a scandalous reason.

raglau · December 2016

Why do people feel "Entitled" to partcipate in Internet forums when they don't know the mechanics of not looking like a twit?

Sheezabeast · December 2016

geonsocal · December 2016

Libonotus wrote: »

Your posts reek of pretentious elitism

excellent wording!!!

I am totally stealing this one at some point in the future...

@raidentenshu_ESO ...may be time to start focusing on finding some game friends...best way to "do" dungeons if your patience is getting frayed...

Sigtric · December 2016

Definitely some entitlement going on but it's not the pick ups in your group

andreasranasen · December 2016

TBH. I pretty sick of people getting mad if people don't like playing with low levels. It's OUR game. Not YOURS. Until the day you decide to pay for my ESO+ sub and my PS4 Plus sub, then you can have a say how I should play MY game.

AlnilamE · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Did you explain the mechanics to them?

I never really paid attention to the Flesh Abomination mechanics in normal, so your "baby steps" don't actually work there. Same with the last boss. in normal, I just heal through his blast rather than jump through the portals. So that's no practice for Vet either.

The only way you learn the mechanics for Vet is by doing it in vet.

Why should I waste my time explaining the mechanics in a vet dungeon run? Players should already know them by now. If they don't why would they join a vet dungeon run in the first place? Start with normal first, and then work your way up to vet.

Let me tell you what the mechanics are in normal ICP:

Flesh Abomination: Tank and spank. Take down adds. Healer outheals damage.

Lord Warden: Keep boss out of centre in case someone falls through a portal. When he rises, stack on healer to heal through AoE.

Now tell me, does this work in vet? No?
Then it doesn't matter how many times someone ran the dungeon in normal. They still need to learn it in vet.

susmitds wrote: »

How do you think the first players trying the dungeons for the first time learn the mechanics? YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW THEM BEFOREHAND. Sure, there are walkthroughs but the people who made those learnt it themselves by experience of trial and error. And if you do by just following the walkthroughs, that makes a faker and a wannabe good player at best. If you are PuGing, you have two options. You can be fine with the fact you may not have a fairytale run where you blitz through everything. Either that or be confident enough to the point that the players being in the group are a mere formality and just there for anti-solo mechanics, while you do all the work yourself.

I remember the first day my friends and I went to vICP. 5 hours in we were still at the Flesh Sculptor. But it was fun trying out different strategies to see what worked.

ArchMikem · December 2016

To be fair, it IS part of the base game content, which we paid for, so that at least we are entitled to experience. However the way we do and the way we act toward our fellow players should be considerate. I'm a long time player now but I so rarely do Dungeons I don't know the majority of the boss mechanics either, but I at least know how to play my role.

Veraen · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

The Gravelight Sentry boss came next.... again those same players didn't even know the mechanics of the boss, and like the flesh Abomination we kept wiping. We wand up defeating him after a few dozen wipes.

I actually think people not completely knowing all of the boss fight mechanics on veteran is understandable. The difference between normal and veteran is too drastic in the game overall. It's totally possible to sneak through a normal dungeon without ever knowing that a particular aspect of the boss fight mechanics will one-shot kill you on veteran mode. I've found myself on veteran after being one-shot killed saying wow, I never knew that those things exploded.

I'm pretty sure the game encourages people to do veteran dungeons once they are level 50. It only takes a few massive wipe-fests like the one you described to teach most people that they are much much harder than normal. Players also eventually realize that the monster helm they need to go with those awesome shoulders come from the final boss of a veteran dungeon, so they just start using group finder to run it.

Anyway, I hope this helps shed some light on the situation and reduces your frustration. As with all walks of life, it's better to be understanding and helpful than angry and frustrated. Take care bud.

disintegr8 · December 2016

@raidentenshu_ESO - entitlement has nothing to do with it, reaching level 50 in this game allows you to enter vet dungeons, simple as that. Whether you think they should be there has nothing to do with it.

If you think some dungeons need further requirements, please take that up with ZOS and stop raging at the players, who are simply doing what the game, by design, permits them to do.

Stridig · December 2016

andreasranasen wrote: »

TBH. I pretty sick of people getting mad if people don't like playing with low levels. It's OUR game. Not YOURS. Until the day you decide to pay for my ESO+ sub and my PS4 Plus sub, then you can have a say how I should play MY game.

But it's OK to make somebody else who paid for the game wait 15 minutes for group finder to let them back in because they get kicked. I mean it's their game that they paid for right. When you kick them it affects their game right? Your argument holds no weight.

HuawaSepp · December 2016

If you are at the last boss in vICP HM you should not have to go into the portals, otherwise your group was performing bad for example.

But what do you want to explain?
Tanks job is same as always, heal and dd too.
There are no special mechanics, just pull the trash to the bosses and nuke it with aoe. Or single down the boss if there is no trash.
Same rule for all 4 bosses.
And get out of red circles under you.

Not a hard explanation in my eyes.

Silver_Strider · December 2016

So instead of taking the time to explain the mechanics, which would take about 2 minutes per boss, give or take a few seconds, you chose to wipe repeatedly, which probably took a lot longer than 2 minutes to do. Sounds like you need to get your head out of where the sun don't shine and BE A GROUP PLAYER,

The difference between Normal and Vet might not be huge but they are there and they might need to be explained from time to time. It saves time and frustration for everyone involved.

Yeah, this is more on you than them.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

Stridig wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

TBH. I pretty sick of people getting mad if people don't like playing with low levels. It's OUR game. Not YOURS. Until the day you decide to pay for my ESO+ sub and my PS4 Plus sub, then you can have a say how I should play MY game.

But it's OK to make somebody else who paid for the game wait 15 minutes for group finder to let them back in because they get kicked. I mean it's their game that they paid for right. When you kick them it affects their game right? Your argument holds no weight.

Oh please, both have nothing to do with one another. One is a mechanic that no one other than ZoS implemented. No one forces anyone to wait for 15mins other than ZoS. The second is people having a superiority complex the thickness of a rope and attempting to dictate to others what they should and shouldn't be accessing in their game. Your argument holds no weight.

And there's people on here who question why others prefer to game alone in MMOs. They just need to read this thread to see why others shy away from other players. This thread is a prime example of the mentality lots of people attempt to avoid.

Browiseth · December 2016

in general i find newbie players to be very pretentious in this game

kargen27 · December 2016

andreasranasen wrote: »

TBH. I pretty sick of people getting mad if people don't like playing with low levels. It's OUR game. Not YOURS. Until the day you decide to pay for my ESO+ sub and my PS4 Plus sub, then you can have a say how I should play MY game.

I agree fully. If you see someone in a group you do not want to play with leave the group. Problem solved. Don't ask them to leave or try and force them to leave when it is you that has a problem with the make-up of the group.

TequilaFire · December 2016

Oh if only we had thread down voting. smh

DrMorisson · December 2016

Are you kidding? NO I've never been to dungeons or trials but I will do so without knowing the mechanics, especially for you.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

I feel entitled to poop on threads about entitlement . We are here to have fun not worry about video game elitism .

SquareSausage · December 2016

I run all my vet pledges on hard mode and pug them most of the time, except, and this is major here, never, ever, ever pug vet CoA II, RoM, ICP, WGT, CoS.

Every single other vet pledge is doable with even a decent a group. If these come up, i'll run them in normal, or with the DLC i'll simply not do them if short on time, as even in normal, you tend to get grouped with people who don't know mechanics and/or have poor dps or skill.

Todays BC2 final boss can be tricky on final boss if trying for hardmode if tank is unaware of his role, ie seperating daedroth from boss. and yes ICP, thats a no brainer, just don't do it on pug, not worth the hassle.

SquareSausage · December 2016

Oh and trying to explain tactics if people are unaware sometimes is like smacking a head against a brick wall, as generally you get no response and continue doing as they did before (afterall who am I to instruct someone how to play), and if playing on console trying to type with a control pad is simply the worst.

Silver_Strider · December 2016

SquareSausage wrote: »

Oh and trying to explain tactics if people are unaware sometimes is like smacking a head against a brick wall, as generally you get no response and continue doing as they did before (afterall who am I to instruct someone how to play), and if playing on console trying to type with a control pad is simply the worst.

Bought a keyboard for that sole reason alone

Stovahkiin · December 2016

Gahh.... another one of these threads $:\$

AlnilamE · December 2016

SquareSausage wrote: »

Todays BC2 final boss can be tricky on final boss if trying for hardmode if tank is unaware of his role, ie seperating daedroth from boss. and yes ICP, thats a no brainer, just don't do it on pug, not worth the hassle.

On BC II, I always ask at the beginning of the fight if we are keeping the daedroth alive from the beginning (ie, the group thinks it has enough DPS to take the boss down when the third comes out) or if we take them out until the boss is low and then wait for the third daedroth to pop. It can be done both ways and it's always good to agree on a strategy before the fight starts.

geonsocal · December 2016

@raidentenshu_ESO ...here ya go:

SHADOW2KK · December 2016

The irony OP, the irony..

SquareSausage · December 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

On BC II, I always ask at the beginning of the fight if we are keeping the daedroth alive from the beginning (ie, the group thinks it has enough DPS to take the boss down when the third comes out) or if we take them out until the boss is low and then wait for the third daedroth to pop. It can be done both ways and it's always good to agree on a strategy before the fight starts.

That works too, aslong as its agreed on, but with pugs nothing is ever agreed on as there is no commitment to people you dont know, and most people dont talk to eachother.

On the BCII today for example, a group member had typed keep 3 alive, which is what I guess 3 of us wanted or knew about, the tank was doing a good job seperating the daedroth, one dps was attacking the boss, I was healing, the other dps was only attacking the daedroth with single target abilities. I was healing and fight was going on for ages, there is no time to type to tell the dps to attack the boss instead. Eventually there must have been 6 daedroth at one point and tank was kiting them as I pressume he was always out of stam from that many enemies, eventually the other dps went to take out some of the daedroth as we were being swamped then switched back to boss, finally we killed the boss, but to my horror, we didnt get a 2nd key, the solo daedroth dpser must have killed too many just before boss died.

oh and yes, a keyboard I must acquire.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Also, from a new player standpoint, they don't know that ICP, WGT, and the two SotH dungeons are higher skill requiring. They only know that group finder will put them in those dungeons pre-max CP because they own the DLCs.

I would blame the system before I'd blame the 'entitled' players.

This. This entire issue is mainly ZOS's fault for not having any sort training, preparation or even a basic difficulty rating system for new players when they run vet dungeons. Non-vet dungeons don't punish you for ignoring mechanics so they are useless as preparation. So there is this steep difficulty curve that new players do not know about. How is a new player supposed to know, for example, after blazing through Vet CoA1 that they are not prepared for VCoA2? The ease of some vet dungeons can give a false sense of confidence.

Is there a difficulty star rating for dungeons? Of course there isn't. Other games have this feature but to get ZOS to implement it would take 3 years, 500 "soons", and would introduce a bug that causes eye of the storm to hit harder in PvP that wouldn't be fixed for 3 months.

I know there is a ton of frustration going around in the community right now but you need to direct it at ZOS for creating an environment that pits experienced players against less experienced ones all because ZOS can't curate and continuously improve their own content.

FearlessOne_2014 · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Did you explain the mechanics to them?

I never really paid attention to the Flesh Abomination mechanics in normal, so your "baby steps" don't actually work there. Same with the last boss. in normal, I just heal through his blast rather than jump through the portals. So that's no practice for Vet either.

The only way you learn the mechanics for Vet is by doing it in vet.

Why should I waste my time explaining the mechanics in a vet dungeon run? Players should already know them by now. If they don't why would they join a vet dungeon run in the first place? Start with normal first, and then work your way up to vet.

Your posts reek of pretentious elitism

So asking new players to start normal first (to get to know the mechanics of each bosses) and then work your way up to vet is an act of elitism?

To players who not only want you to carry them all through, for you to tie their shoes, for you to wipe their asses when they take a dump, and for you to clean up the mess... Yes ignore these at best I hope trolls, at worst sorry excuses for human beings, and just make your own group, or continue to queue in and if they are not pulling their own. have no mercy and show them to the door.

If they can't respect your time by being able to do their roles enoth just to get by. Then show them the same respect by either leaving or if you can just kick em. This is not a daddy babysitting league outing. This is people who may or may not have friends online or guilds that are willing to run such content trying to get a clear. I normally show these types of people no mercy from the edge of the boot. They can hate me for it, guess what... I gives very little to no care at all.

No need to get all butt hurt from leaches calling you a Elitist because you refuse to let them leach off of you. More so when others that know you, knows better and how much of a helpful player you truly are. End of Point.