Please remove 15 minute queue timer after getting kicked from a group

MrDenimChicken · December 2016

Title says it all. This seems like a Beta bug.

It's ridiculous and very frustrating having to wait 15 minutes to queue up again just because some grp kicked you before you even finished loading into the dungeon. IDK why it hasn't been addressed yet, it seems to me like in an mmorpg, a problem like this would be very high on the priority list.

starkerealm · December 2016

It was added as part of the abandoning penalty, to keep people from bailing on a group, and then immediately requeing on random, until they got the dungeon they wanted with the random XP bonus.

SaRuZ · December 2016

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Koensol · December 2016

SaRuZ wrote: »

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Precisely. This penalty for leaving is actually a big contributor to the whole elitist vote to kick nonsense.

EnemyOfDaState · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

It was added as part of the abandoning penalty, to keep people from bailing on a group, and then immediately requeing on random, until they got the dungeon they wanted with the random XP bonus.

It already takes an hour to get into a pug as a dps, that 15 minute penalty is pointless.

MrDenimChicken · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

It was added as part of the abandoning penalty, to keep people from bailing on a group, and then immediately requeing on random, until they got the dungeon they wanted with the random XP bonus.

so why cant they make it so that if you press "leave group" then you get the 15 minute penalty, but if you get voted out, you dont get the penalty

I mean I'm not a coder so I have no idea how hard this would be....but it seems like it wouldn't be that hard, right?

SaRuZ · December 2016

It wouldn't be. They just haven't done it. Same with adding matchmaking to group finder. An option to select which level players you want to group with. They did it with Price in Guild Traders. Can be the same for group finder.

0 to 561
0 to 50
100 to 250
250 to 400
350 to 561
561 to 561+

See my point? Group skilled players with skilled players. This is like if Halo did away with matchmaking and threw MLG players into a match against day one players at random. Very, very poor planning on the devs end.

lillybit · December 2016

I've only just started using the group finder but I'm finding a lot of times I'll be put in a group and almost instantly the group is disbanded. Then I have to wait 15 minutes to try again when I've barely even had the time to acknowledge I was placed in a group to start with.
The 15 minutes wouldn't be so bad if it still let you join the queue but with an internal delay before it actively queues you. The way it is now, I go off and do something else and forget I'm not queued!

pattyLtd · December 2016

I agree this meeds to go.
Doesnt even matter why they added si nce this solution creates far more annoyance then the original problem they tried to fix ever did. YMMV ofc

Riejael · December 2016

The 15 min starts when you join the group. Not when you're booted.

The system is roughly fine as it is. The bug that disbands the group randomly needs to be fixed, though admittedly I haven't seen it in about 2 weeks. Others keep reporting it as still happening.

There's not going to be a perfect system when you have the system make a group for you. The real true fix would be to take group finder out and force players to premade their groups ahead of time. That way there is no lockout, and everyone is on the same page when they go in.

Of course, that option is still available now.

DMuehlhausen · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

It was added as part of the abandoning penalty, to keep people from bailing on a group, and then immediately requeing on random, until they got the dungeon they wanted with the random XP bonus.

That is the proper way to use it, but if you are removed by vote kick then you aren't abandoning the group are you. So you shouldn't be subject to the timer.

DMuehlhausen · December 2016

SaRuZ wrote: »

It wouldn't be. They just haven't done it. Same with adding matchmaking to group finder. An option to select which level players you want to group with. They did it with Price in Guild Traders. Can be the same for group finder.

0 to 561
0 to 50
100 to 250
250 to 400
350 to 561
561 to 561+

See my point? Group skilled players with skilled players. This is like if Halo did away with matchmaking and threw MLG players into a match against day one players at random. Very, very poor planning on the devs end.

Yeah the problem with this is then you are pulling from a smaller pool of players and the queue times will be come really long for some of the tiers. So either people only use the finder when they first start doing dungeons, or only when they are 561+ thus leaving all the middle people screwed. We all know if a 200 CP selects 561+ they are going to get kicked as soon as they join the group probably.

lehran · December 2016

The disband bug making you wait 15 minutes needs to be fixed. Being kicked making you wait 15 minutes not so much. Yes, it sucks when some idiots kick you for whatever inane reason, but at the same time, there's no way to tell that apart from someone acting disruptive and being kicked for being a jerk. Either griefers can ruin dozens of groups in quick succession, or people who illegitimately got kicked need to do something else for a while rather than pug. While neither is all that good for legitimate players, the latter seems less bad overall than the former in terms of overall disruption. If you caught the names of the group members before you got kicked, report them and move on with your life -- try to join a group via /zone chat while waiting if you absolutely must run a dungeon, or do some other content while the cooldown is ticking down.

o0Velius · December 2016

I find it okay that if YOU leave a group from group finder that you get that penalty HOWEVER if you get voted to be kicked from a group I see no reason this Penalty should even be a factor. If you got voted out of a group then you should be allowed to find a new group right away. If you leave a group I agree that you should have to wait.

aetherial_heavenn · December 2016

CP 467 healer queued for random. Group disbanded by random allocated leader before the group was even in load in. Then i have to wait 15 mins to requeue.

There is no reason to allow griefers , players who change their mind about the dungeon allocated or people who want to be carried by high levels to wreck the other players game.

Edit (My experience is that the really good players are generally ok with whatever level joins because they can carry one low level. Or 2, in normals, except for a couple of known dps checks. )

This system punishes those with no control.

IMO Penalties should apply for voluntarily dropping group or to the leader for disbanding only.

Syrani · December 2016

Group leaders in groups made using group finder can no longer disband group. The auto disband is a bug, and is not an action of a player.

The penalty was implemented to:
*Penalize players for dropping group voluntarily before the dungeon was finished
*Penalize players who got vote kicked for being excessively AFK
*Penalize players who got vote kicked for being disruptive/rude
*Penalize players who got vote kicked for queuing for a role they had no intention of performing, etc

There is no perfect solution to this. The penalty does still punish those players for the actions listed above, but it is also being abused and causing innocent players to be punished. There is no way the system can determine when an innocent was vote kicked for no good reason. If you remove the system, or make it so only those who leave voluntarily get the timer, there is nothing to stop people from being disruptive, or from queuing for a role they have no intention of playing.

I can't say if the system is effective in deterring unwanted behavior, but the reason it was implemented was because that type of behavior was getting out of control, and people wanted a way to discourage it. The problem is that you can't make it perfect.

DigitalShibby · December 2016

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

9 people in a row and in your group huh? Guess that makes you guilty since you voted to kick players 9 times in a row, seeing as how it takes everyone voting yes to accomplish.

dposdb14_ESO · December 2016

If someone leaves willingly within the first 15 minutes then give them the penalty, but that should be the only time. Getting kicked, group disbanded bug, unable to join due to full instance, etc. shouldn't place a penalty timer on you.

As far as not wanting "low levels/cp" that can be fixed by just adding a cap. X dungeon requires x level/cp to even queue for type thing.

VeriusNox · December 2016

I think vote to kick shouldn't be available til 15 minutes or so into the dungeon, so people who are unhappy because someone isn't cp 561 can either suck it up and play the game like an adult, or leave themselves.

SaRuZ · December 2016

DigitalShibby wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

9 people in a row and in your group huh? Guess that makes you guilty since you voted to kick players 9 times in a row, seeing as how it takes everyone voting yes to accomplish.

Never said I didn't. Nor did I hate on the guy. As I said, it WASTED my time. Just an example of the abuse of a broken system is all. Never claimed to be a saint, if you go afk, can't play your role or just plain suck, I will vote kick you too.

I don't have all day to run a single dungeon. Not all of us are kids with too much free time. Which is why I use Group Finder in the first place. I tank so it's literally a 2 second queue time. Its rolling the dice but still beats LFGing for an hour.

ChuckyPayne · December 2016

A distinction should be made between you left and you kicked. Big difference.

By the way, there is something strage. I found an lfg party but before I can press F I lose the party. How can this happen? 3 player voted kick before I see the teleport into dungeon interface?
Amd of course 15 penalty as a reward for a long waiting

alexkdd99 · December 2016

SaRuZ wrote: »

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Lol you were agreeing to it if he kept doing it with you in the group. You can't complain about someone kicking people if you are agreeing with the vote to kick.

They should not remove the penalty. But they should fix the auto disband bug.

Also don't queue for a dungeon if you are not ready to enter. Or don't queue for dungeons you are not experienced/skilled enough to complete.

If you follow those basic directions then you shouldn't have problems with the group finder.

It requires a majority group vote to kick someone, so if you were kicked then you most likely shouldn't be in that dungeon with that group.

dposdb14_ESO · December 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Lol you were agreeing to it if he kept doing it with you in the group. You can't complain about someone kicking people if you are agreeing with the vote to kick.

They should not remove the penalty. But they should fix the auto disband bug.

Also don't queue for a dungeon if you are not ready to enter. Or don't queue for dungeons you are not experienced/skilled enough to complete.

If you follow those basic directions then you shouldn't have problems with the group finder.

It requires a majority group vote to kick someone, so if you were kicked then you most likely shouldn't be in that dungeon with that group.

Most vote kicks that pop up that I have personally seen are just because someone isn't 400cp+, and yes I vote no.
There are only 4 dungeons right now that even require something like that, so yes if someone joins vet cradle of shadows with 200cp I would be hesitant to let them stay.
But if they join the random vet queue and the game places them in there does that really warrant them to get punished if the group decides he's to low?
And what about getting kicked because you get the whole "instance full" issue? I've been kicked from those groups even after letting them know it might take a few minutes. In that case that just means the group failed and people just left or got booted and I'm replacing them, should I get punished for that?

RavenSworn · December 2016

Kicked shouldn't have the penalty. Leaving however should. Or give a 1min grace period after setting group in random.

MrDenimChicken · December 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Lol you were agreeing to it if he kept doing it with you in the group. You can't complain about someone kicking people if you are agreeing with the vote to kick.

They should not remove the penalty. But they should fix the auto disband bug.

Also don't queue for a dungeon if you are not ready to enter. Or don't queue for dungeons you are not experienced/skilled enough to complete.

If you follow those basic directions then you shouldn't have problems with the group finder.

It requires a majority group vote to kick someone, so if you were kicked then you most likely shouldn't be in that dungeon with that group.

Most people who get kicked from a dungeon instantly do NOT know why they were kicked. There is no indicator in the grouping tool that recommends players to be a certain champion level.

I even remember this one group kept kicking people because they wanted to get a 400+ CP stamina sorcerer just so they could get carried through the dungeon (they were all around 200CP). We ended up kicking like 8 people in a row. I didn't think about it at the time, but our group just caused a lot of people to have to wait 15 minutes for no reason they could control.

So for most casual players, they just get kicked, have no idea why, and then see the ridiculousness of having to wait 15 minutes before queueing again even though they all they did was join, load into zone, then get kicked immediately.

exeeter702 · December 2016

Koensol wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Precisely. This penalty for leaving is actually a big contributor to the whole elitist vote to kick nonsense.

Acrually it has nothing to do with the elitist mentality. The environtment that zos created ie. Vet HMs triggered at the last boss instead of as a seperate queue, dlc dungeon difficulty, cp power gaps and throwing them all into the gf for players to randomly queue up together from cp1 to cp561 has created that issue. There are too many variables and scenarios where a low level cp player simply lacks the numbers to adequatley contribute despite their best efforts, and become a liability at no fault of their own.

The penalty was added to disincentivize abandoning groups and fishing for a good group or a specfic dungeon to knock out a pledge and a random daily at the same time.

Unfortunately zos has failed in their execution of the penalty system.

cpuScientist · December 2016

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Many, including myself have brought this up. It's an issue that should be addressed. You shouldn't be punished for being kicked.

99 out of 100 times the Kick feature is abused to get rid of low levels or because someone isn't loading in fast enough. Ive been in groups where leader vote kicked 9 people in a row just to get someone he thought would be good. I left the group coz it was wasting my time.

Lol you were agreeing to it if he kept doing it with you in the group. You can't complain about someone kicking people if you are agreeing with the vote to kick.

They should not remove the penalty. But they should fix the auto disband bug.

Also don't queue for a dungeon if you are not ready to enter. Or don't queue for dungeons you are not experienced/skilled enough to complete.

If you follow those basic directions then you shouldn't have problems with the group finder.

It requires a majority group vote to kick someone, so if you were kicked then you most likely shouldn't be in that dungeon with that group.

Most people who get kicked from a dungeon instantly do NOT know why they were kicked. There is no indicator in the grouping tool that recommends players to be a certain champion level.

I even remember this one group kept kicking people because they wanted to get a 400+ CP stamina sorcerer just so they could get carried through the dungeon (they were all around 200CP). We ended up kicking like 8 people in a row. I didn't think about it at the time, but our group just caused a lot of people to have to wait 15 minutes for no reason they could control.

So for most casual players, they just get kicked, have no idea why, and then see the ridiculousness of having to wait 15 minutes before queueing again even though they all they did was join, load into zone, then get kicked immediately.

Lololol why stam sorcerer though WTF

lillybit · December 2016

Had a new one today, was added to a group that already had four members. Waited a minute in case they were kicking someone - they were; me! Fair enough, couldn't even join.
But then had to wait my 15 mins and in no way was I at fault.
Not even sure how that even happened. At a guess I'd say they told activity finder to replace someone and then invited someone manually? Would that happen then?

cpuScientist · December 2016

I have been kicked once and it was for DPS from vet darkshade 2. See I was on my magSorc, and immediately as I get in they tell me that they heard on YouTube and from guild mates that sorcs are not strong. I say let's just try it. We get to the bug boss guy the tanks dying the healer is spamming Jesus beam from 100% and the stamDK is spamming venemous claw. The DPS is only 29k of which I was 23, would have been more but the tank was dead and the boss was agro'd onto me of course. They tell me I'm not doing enough damage, it's my fault the tanks dying cause with good DPS he wouldn't need more than 17k health anyways.....

Mind you the boss is dead. I am laughing soooo hard at chat saying it's my fault. They do a vote to kick. Who knows maybe a stamSorc pulled them through it lol.

It was jjst hilarious to witness elitism from the worst of players, I didn't even protest I just apologized for my DPS. They said to practice and to switch to stamSorc or reroll.... I have more than max CP. Two of them were maxed and one had 4 something. So they were bad high volume players lol. How you get to max CP and not git gud is beyond me.

AFrostWolf · December 2016

Just experienced this. It was rather annoying. I got insta kicked and had to wait.....

Skinzz · December 2016

I never get kicked from groups so I dont really know what to say about the issue lol.